Time for a fresh start

[dune]

No one has been sacked. We were all offered the chance to carry on, but none of us took it.

 

So you all resigned en masse?

[del boy]

Listening to what the users say instead of telling everyone you know best would have been a novel approach

[St.Jeweller]

how ironic that it all kicks off after a Saints victory as well,who would of thought eh.....

[Baj]

Listening to what the users say instead of telling everyone you know best would have been a novel approach

Which is what we are doing

[Saint in Paradise]

With all due respect to Massimo Osti I think that you do need a mod who

listens to the radio and doesn't go to every match. This is because some

people post whilst the match is on and someone needs to keep an eye on that

at the time, not 2 or 3 hours later. Just in case.

Also I feel someone who lives in a different time zone would also be a good idea

as there are some people posting at all hours not just during UK waking hours.

 

I am probably too old and set in my ways to be a mod as I find that I get extremely annoyed

when I read personal attacks, lots of people would get lots of infractions very quickly

and the board would go downhill fast :lol:

[dune]

Which is what we are doing

 

What are you looking for - a more authoritarian approach or a more laissez faire approach?

[Draino76]

It should be mod free. Go on; give it a try and see if anybody dies.

 

Take off the swear filter too......********ERS

[Arizona]

So you all resigned en masse?

 

No.

 

Baj and Steve have decided to start afresh. We have decided not to apply for a possition in the new mod team. There is no resigning to be done. We just didn't apply for a new "job".

[dune]

No.

 

Baj and Steve have decided to start afresh. We have decided not to apply for a possition in the new mod team. There is no resigning to be done. We just didn't apply for a new "job".

 

What I don't get is how you would need to apply for a new position if you were already employed in the said position. You said you weren't sacked and you said you hadn't resigned.

[hutch]

I had a dog once that kept digging up one of the sprinkler heads in the garden and eating it. I tried several times to explain to him privately that it wasn't appropriate to eat sprinkler heads in public. But he just ignored me and kept on digging it up and eating it every time I replaced it. Then I tried chaining him up for 7 day periods as a deterrent, but as soon as I let him loose he just dug it up and ate it again. I even beat him to death with a baseball bat. Several times. But each time he just got up, dug it up, and ate it again. I asked my neighbours for their advice. One said I should be much tougher on him, and do whatever was necessary to stop him digging it up and eating it. The other one said I shouldn't be so touchy - it's only a sprinkler head after all, and we're all grown ups, aren't we. In the end I decided not to change the irrigation system. I got rid of the dog.

 

Not that this has got anything whatsoever to do with the moderation policy on this board.

 

And, FWIW, it's a true story. Well, mostly. When the blindingly obvious answer is staring you in the face, don't waste your time looking round for creative solutions.

Edited 2 October, 2010 by hutch
accuracy

[Ohio Saint]

Firstly, I have little idea what is going on, I've just sat down at my computer and need some time to digest what is happening. However, I'd like to extend my thanks to the "old" mods that are leaving. Good job, guys, and thank you.

 

Now. I agree that a poll is a bad idea. It would be too public. I work online for employers I have never met. Once in a while they ask their employess for feedback via a survey they lay out on www.surveymonkey.com They have multiple choice questions, and spaces for comments in a private manner. Maybe a survey of this kind would be helpful? You would not have to read absolutely every single comment and ansewer, but might be able to guage the opinion of the forum as a whole by posting one of these surveys? Just a thought.

Edited 2 October, 2010 by Ohio Saint

[Ewell]

Yes, this is open to FULL members only. This is only because ALL current moderators and admins have paid their fee

 

and there lies the problem!

[jdsaint]

Modding a forum is often a thankless task, even more so when opinions are divided - I admin another forum so hopefully can offer some advice to those in charge.

 

You need to decide what you expect your mods to do - are they here to tidy up the forums, delete spam... or are they here to take your decisions? As a reader rather than participant I'd say in the past it appears to be the latter?

 

Perhaps as admins of the site you need to take charge of the more "unsavoury" tasks (infractions/bannings etc) and leave your mods to just make sure things tick along in an impartial manner whilst you're not here.

 

Any user issues or complaints you deal with - not the mods. You won't be liked for it - but that's par for the course )

 

The six month rotation idea is interesting, but perhaps it might be an idea to rotate just half at a time, otherwise you spend a period of mods unsure what they're doing, what their role is etc. and that can be detrimental.

 

Good luck

 

Jason

[egg]

IMO a fresh start is needed.

 

There are a few idiots who seem intent in sabotaging every thread and contributing nothing positive, I can understand why the mods would have become ****ed off with that and thought "uck it I will spend my evenings and weekends doing something that I actually enjoy."

 

FWIW I think that the blend of the mods is as important as the individuals. Eg, 6 boring mods who clamp down on thought control will continue the rot imo. Far better to have a few of sensible souls and a few who will help restore some energy to the site.

[Ohio Saint]

IMO infractions are a waste of time. Sure, they work for reasonable people, but for the idiots, they are an incentive to try and push the boundaries of what they can get away with until they get the ban. I would prefer 1 week ban, 1 week ban, then perm ban. Those one week bans give the offender and the offending thread time to think about what just happened.

[Ponty]

No one has been sacked. We were all offered the chance to carry on, but none of us took it.

 

You mean, we were all given the chance to apply to carry on. Not quite the same.

[Verbal]

You mean, we were all given the chance to apply to carry on. Not quite the same.

 

No it isn't. So is anyone going to say what's really going on? The impression is that StL, for one, has left unhappily - and he was never one to really seem ruffled by the abuse that appears from time to time on here.

[Smirking_Saint]

I'd have kept you on Ponts, you would have been my lieutenant.

 

I honestly don't think this place is full of idiotic w*nkers per se, as everyone keeps saying. Definately no more than usual.

 

Ok, some people get OTT and start giving personal abuse out, but also some people on here are very very precious, which IMO is just as bad.

 

Problem is you can't be sarcastic, witty or show a sense of humour without someone complaining.

 

Unless i am one of the w*nkers, if so ignore the above.

[diggers]

I don't post on any Saints message boards anymore, after an infamous incident I became involved with, (the repercussions of which persuaded me not not to renew my season ticket or indeed go to a Saints game again) but, my opinion of this site is;

 

1. More than 50% of the posters seem too pre-occupied with bragging about being what is now a Saintsweb copyrighted "ITK" and the almost all the others seem equally pre-occupied with shouting down the alleged ITK'ers.

2. Too many posters take a weird pleasure in "unpicking" what they deem "incorrect grammar". My teenage daughter's majorly dyslexic, and this doesn't stop her conversing with her mates on Facebook all night (every bloody night) without them all feeling the need to castigate her for daring to type the way she see's words rather than the way the Queens English intended. - I'm sure this puts off many would be occasional posters.

3. Increasingly so recently, but always to some extent, every new thread seems to be taken as a new opportunity for a mass *****ing, why can't all posters simply be reasonable to each other, hold your own opinion of course, but at least show some some form of basic respect for others who have a different opinion to yours. I really believe that most posters on here would never use the same tones and language if they were speaking face to face, so, while sometimes we all get hot under the collar, theres a limit which IMHO gets crossed way too regularly on here.

4. Why do so many threads have to centre around the running of the club, rather than the football that goes on on the pitch? It used to entertain me, watching so many internet forum members seriously talking as if they had the ear of the chief exec or making statements about emailing the club about this or that, again, IMHO, his is a football supporters forum which really should be about SUPPORTING our club, not a forum about how to run it.

5. Its football! - So far this year, my sisters died suddenly, my secretary (20 yrs old) was in intensive care and will never fully recover from a serious illness and my sons mental health problems have taken a bad turn for the worse. All these things are worth loosing sleep over and are life changing, however much any of us love our football team at the end of the day thats all it is, a football team that we get varying degrees of pleasure (or pain) from supporting. So why not chill out and enjoy each day we have, be extra happy when we win, but get over it if we loose!

[Robsk II]

What the hell happened to you!?? Scary.

[Robsk II]

All these things are worth loosing sleep over and are life changing, however much any of us love our football team at the end of the day that's all it is, a football team that we get varying degrees of pleasure (or pain) from supporting. So why not chill out and enjoy each day we have, be extra happy when we win, but get over it if we loose!

 

 

But seriously - I agree with what you say; good points. The thing is, there is always a proportion of football 'fans' who have no sense of perspective, no common sense, no morals or no brain. I'm not sure any rational argument will change irrational people.

[Jimmy_D]

I'd like to apply to be a moderator, as I like to think I take the time to see any given situation objectively, and I think my posting history shows this. I'm also pretty good at getting my point across when needed, backing up arguments with documented facts, and accepting when I'm shown to be wrong.

 

I've been a moderator on a forum before, although not for football and not nearly as big, we used to encourage users to make their argument once, ie. try and make a post actually add something to an argument, instead of sending it in circles, and to make their arguments attack the point being argued instead of other posters. It worked pretty well, but like I said it was a far smaller forum, still, hopefully the same sort of approach could work here.

 

Another point is I'm a season ticket holder, so I'm not around on here for home matches.

[Red and White Army]

The biggest problem for me on this forum is the obessive internet warriors who managed to turn every thread into a pro/anti RL (still) or more recently pro/anti Cordese or pro/anti Pardew blah blah blah. It is better now StuRomseySaint has gone, but there are still a few diehards who post stuff deliberately to get a reaction and see back and masturbate when they inevitably provoke a fight - alpine_saint is their spiritual leader.

 

I think limiting posts to 30 a week would have the effect of quietening these people down and still leave plenty of room for people to make their points in a well reasoned, objective fashion. I can't tell you how much of my life has been wasted reading 15,000 alpine posts and the 100,000+ responses to them. I would like to read about Saints, not some oik in Austria's personal vendetta against the world.

[Saint in Paradise]

Sorry but I think you have just shot yourself in the foot

re Alpine.You have got personal against him plus of course you can't

qualify as according to Baj you have to be a full member to become

a mod.

Sorry sir, next please.

[ericofarabia]

and there lies the problem!

 

To be fair .... a Mod who couldn't receive PM's would be about as useful as a VAT Form at Notarf Krap!!

Edited 3 October, 2010 by ericofarabia

[Red and White Army]

I have no interest at all in becoming a Mod. I have plenty of work in my day job without volunteering to an unpaid, thankless position where you are guaranteed to get people hating you for your actions. However, I used to be an active participating member on 20 years ago on the original Saints List (email back then) and all the iterations through to to this site today.... however in the last few years, I like many others have virtually stopped posting and discussing the Saints because some people (and I am not afraid to name them - Smirking Saint is another) have ruined the whole board.

 

I am not sure if my solution is the best, I hope someone else will come out with a better one... but the admins asked for feedback on what we as members think is wrong with this board and for me it is certain individuals monopolising threads and continually trolling.

[Ewell]

To be fair .... a Mod who couldn't receive PM's would be about as useful as a VAT Form at Notarf Krap!!

 

I really cannot be bothered to expand any more than the following.

 

People who pay 'expect a decent service' which involves forum 'uptime' being constant, the level of modding being fair and consistent and the forums providing the right sort of content i.e. forums everyone wants to use.

 

As soon as you start charging for something don’t be surprised that when you do not deliver the paying customers make demands and tell you about their dissatisfacion. The attitude of some seems to be 'no this is how it is if you do not like it then **** off'. Great service!

[chrisobee]

Why all leave though? There must be something going on behind the scenes? Some sort of power struggle with Corte... I mean stevegrant and Baj?

 

If you bothered to read your pm's you might not be so utterly clueless

[chrisobee]

But seriously - I agree with what you say; good points. The thing is, there is always a proportion of football 'fans' who have no sense of perspective, no common sense, no morals or no brain. I'm not sure any rational argument will change irrational people.

 

It's true, you really can't argue with stupidity !

[doggface]

I have not been enjoying the forum as much this year, new threads seem not as frequent and most vear off topic & decend into pathetic point scoring and petty arguments. Often the same offenders.

Much harsher modding required IMO.

[modern matron]

Isn't all this rather an over reaction? I think the mods do a great job keeping an eye on the rest of us. As far as I can see since I have been a member this sort of problem has always been there, and is minimal in comparison with some forums around.

 

Frankly what has changed is the forum has become dull. I put this down to the lack of rumour, inside info, gossip or whatever else you want to call it which of course is not anyone's fault. NC's rather rigid, ultra secret way of doing things is probably the reason why this has happened. Finally I would also remind some posters that the forum is a very small, dare I say insignificant part of SFC, and that noone really cares what is posted. So just loosen up, let people say what they like and stop taking it all so seriously.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

how ironic that it all kicks off after a Saints victory as well,who would of thought eh.....

 

It's been in the offing for at least 3 months so it's no knee jerk reaction.

[Deppo]

If you bothered to read your pm's you might not be so utterly clueless

 

Oh, thank you. Just read them. Very interesting. Just to let everyone know, I won't be applying to be a mod.

[stmusicdude]

As it has been a topic of conversation for a few weeks now, myself and steve have been talking regularly about ways to improve the forum.

 

Obviously, we have 2 main issues. The reliability of the forum and the running of the forum.

 

With regards to the former (believe it or not) we are still addressing this on a DAILY basis. Today the forum suffered no downtime at all (yes, maybe it was quieter), but we will continue to assess things after each matchday and have many different plans to keep the forum up properly.

 

Secondly, the running of the forum. We've also talked about the many different angles for improving things, taking into consideration the many complaints. We feel that perhaps a fresh approach to the moderation of the forum is required, and we want you as users to be part of that.

 

The plan is as follows:

Every 6 months, we would like users to apply to become moderators, we are interested in where they think we have gone wrong as a team over the past few years, how you would do things differently etc.

 

If you feel you would like to become a moderator, we invite you to reply to this thread with your ideas. If we feel you would make a good, unbiased moderator, we will let you know.

 

 

We of course would like to thank the current moderator team for their efforts since we started, their assistance has been completely invaluable and they are welcome to apply along with everyone else, but we felt it best to have a clean start.

 

On the aspect of keeping the servers up & running without any issues I often wish the ppl on here that ***** actually understood how it can be difficult to narrow down what kills it & cut you guys some slack. I gave up on paying purly because of the "them & us" mentality. & the fact that many feel they need to insult & theaten others, how many debates actually stay as debates before they start attacking those that do not agree with them? so a voting system wont work at all your right. The people that do insult & theaten seem to be personalitys on here & have clearly been here for some time, it's as if they feel it's their forum & those that not been here long should fook off. It's for these reason's I think your fighting a bit of a lossing battle. However it's great that your looking at it & the ideas you put forward are great we shall see!!

[dune]

I noticed a few weeks ago that the list that showed who was online was wiped from the programme, which I thought was odd and made me think Baj wanted to hide some changes to the mods, so I think this is old news but has only just surfaced. So who is still an Admin and who is still a mod? I'm a little confused because it appears Arizona is still an Admin (more powerful than a mod as presumably he has greater access to the guts of the forum so to speak). Some clarification would be appreciated.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Although I post on here a fair bit, I tend not to every day (although I might read posts) as there's not always anything worth commenting about. The threads are not exactly that entertaining now as subjects have mostly been done to death - probably one reason why some resort to abuse to fill their time. I also get the feeling that being a Mod brings with it risk of significant abuse and threat from the mindless few. I seem to remember all kinds of threats happening to people on the old forum with houses being 'visited'. So it's a no thanks from me too.

 

In terms of how to improve the forum, I would suggest the following....

 

a. If you pay £5 or whatever to become a 'full member' then that seems to imply a membership to a club. Most clubs I know restrict visitors to the club to members only and their GUESTS. Guests have limited rights. So I would suggest that the main forum is limited to full members only who can invite a guest or two (ratified by MODS), however the guests can only post once/day on each thread. Also, if a guest gets reported for abuse by a full member then a MOD can ban the guest indefinately AND ban the member who invited them in for a period of say one week. This information would be publicly displayed to name and shame.

 

b. MODs should have a charter or set of rules by which they STRICTLY operate, however some discretion can be applied to banning by needing a majority decision by 3 or 5 MODs.

 

c. Full members can opt to put Guests on ignore, but cannot do the same for other full members. Guests cannot put people on ignore. We are supposedly on the same side supporting a great football club. There will be differences of opinion - great - but as long as there's no abuse everyone should be entitled to have their opinions seen by every other user without fear of abuse or indeed not being seen.

 

d. It might be an idea to award a 'gold star' or whatever on a weekly or monthly basis to the Full Member who provides a thread with the most posts to it - the idea being that the thread with the most posts is clearly the most interesting for whatever reason. There could be a public 'leaderboard' of Full Members holding the most 'gold stars'. Win-win because it encourages more interesting threads and also provides a little more light-hearted entertainment to the 'club'.

 

e. If Full Members were given the opportunity to meet face to face occassionally there would be far less abuse between these people. Example of how to achieve this? Even though I'm 51, I would love to play some recreational 7-a-side footie (time permitting) and a chance to chat Saints stuff over a pint afterwards would be a bonus too. The forum games seemed a good idea, but if you're not available it's a one off event that you miss, plus a full on game on a full sized pitch might be too much for some of us older chaps. This is just one idea to get people together and remove the animosity that sometimes exists?

 

f. Perhaps Full Members should be prepared to reveal their names on their profile, but ONLY other Full Members should be able to see this info. Knowing someone by their first name rather than a username would disuade abuse IMO.

 

Hey, these are just a few ideas, but there needs to be clear ground between being a Full Member and a Registered User or Guest. Hope the forum gets better and that the 'fresh start' works, because I was seriously thinking of giving up the membership too.

[Arizona]

I noticed a few weeks ago that the list that showed who was online was wiped from the programme, which I thought was odd and made me think Baj wanted to hide some changes to the mods, so I think this is old news but has only just surfaced. So who is still an Admin and who is still a mod? I'm a little confused because it appears Arizona is still an Admin (more powerful than a mod as presumably he has greater access to the guts of the forum so to speak). Some clarification would be appreciated.

 

Correct.

 

AFAIK we were all "administrators" except Landrew who was a "mod". Nothing personal against him, he was just recruited at a different time as an extra "mod" IIRC. As for who's left... It seems to be just Steve, Baj and myself until the new mod team is installed. As I understand it they will just be "mods". I.e. able to moderate the forum but not able to administer changed to the website.

[dune]

LOL at those applying saying they want to do this and do that. Nothing needs to change imo and if anything there needs to be next to no moderation. Jimmy D says he wants people only to make a point once, but if that was enforced there'd be next to no activity on here, and as Winston Churchill once said "If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack."

[dune]

It seems to be just Steve, Baj and myself until the new mod team is installed.

 

Actually that doesn't seem to be the true picture.

[Red and White Army]

Banning dune would be a great first step for any new moderator.

[dune]

Banning dune would be a great first step for any new moderator.

 

Why?

[hypochondriac]

Banning dune would be a great first step for any new moderator.

 

See this is the type of comment which needs to be rooted out. It adds nothing but just shows why the forum is going downhill.

[JustMike]

I dont think that much with the forum itself needs to change, it is working better now and will no doubt improve as the results of testing etc com through. What needs to change imo is the attitude of some posters towards certain other posters. It's almost like certain posters are followed around from thread to thread and picked on, not by what they have said but on reputation. I guess you will always have a certain level of idiotness on an internet forum but as has been said on many a thread, if you don't have an opinion, dont post.

[dingbattigger]

The one thing that has, to some extent, killed this forum is people's inability to accept that other people are entitled to their own opinion. You might not agree with that opinion, but that in no way deletes their right to hold it. P*ss taking is fine as long as there is no abuse of the poster. I don't contribute greatly but I read almost everything posted.

 

TBH I haven't got any complaints about the quality of service and yes I would happily pay my £5 again, it's precious little for the enjoyment I get here. If I could offer a word of advice from my experience as a mod then of the first mods you take on, give half of them 9 months instead of 6 so that you always have 'experienced' mods even whilst they change.

 

By the way Baj I enjoy the live text commentary, very helpful if I can't make the match (daughters illness issues).

[scotty]

I've mentioned this before, but I think this site reflects to some extent what is happening with the club. When the club is going through the doldrums (which is more often than not) this site tends replicate the feeling.

 

this. The site always gets niggly when theres nothing much to talk about saints-wise, there was more personal sniping in the last close season than I can ever remember. People still come on here to fill the time and see if anything is happening, when they find out there isnt then hey....theyre already here........

[hypochondriac]

Although I post on here a fair bit, I tend not to every day (although I might read posts) as there's not always anything worth commenting about. The threads are not exactly that entertaining now as subjects have mostly been done to death - probably one reason why some resort to abuse to fill their time. I also get the feeling that being a Mod brings with it risk of significant abuse and threat from the mindless few. I seem to remember all kinds of threats happening to people on the old forum with houses being 'visited'. So it's a no thanks from me too.

 

In terms of how to improve the forum, I would suggest the following....

 

a. If you pay £5 or whatever to become a 'full member' then that seems to imply a membership to a club. Most clubs I know restrict visitors to the club to members only and their GUESTS. Guests have limited rights. So I would suggest that the main forum is limited to full members only who can invite a guest or two (ratified by MODS), however the guests can only post once/day on each thread. Also, if a guest gets reported for abuse by a full member then a MOD can ban the guest indefinately AND ban the member who invited them in for a period of say one week. This information would be publicly displayed to name and shame.

 

Sorry Cam but in my opinion this is an horrendous idea. The forum should be inclusive not exclusive. Additionally, if I were to invite someone why should I be responsible for what they do in the future? This proposal would mean that the forums would be even more dead than they are already. What about fans of other clubs whose views I enjoy hearing? They would be banned as well so we would never get their contributions.

 

b. MODs should have a charter or set of rules by which they STRICTLY operate, however some discretion can be applied to banning by needing a majority decision by 3 or 5 MODs.

 

That seems fair enough to me

 

c. Full members can opt to put Guests on ignore, but cannot do the same for other full members. Guests cannot put people on ignore. We are supposedly on the same side supporting a great football club. There will be differences of opinion - great - but as long as there's no abuse everyone should be entitled to have their opinions seen by every other user without fear of abuse or indeed not being seen.

 

Erm why? If you have someone on ignore then who are you hurting other than potentially yourself? I think having the ability to put someone on ignore is a really valuable tool because many users whilst not going as far as infractions, are extremely difficult to have a conversation with.

 

d. It might be an idea to award a 'gold star' or whatever on a weekly or monthly basis to the Full Member who provides a thread with the most posts to it - the idea being that the thread with the most posts is clearly the most interesting for whatever reason. There could be a public 'leaderboard' of Full Members holding the most 'gold stars'. Win-win because it encourages more interesting threads and also provides a little more light-hearted entertainment to the 'club'.

 

The focus should really be on quality not quantity. What has always been the case on here is that the threads with the most posts are usually the most maddening and least worthy of being read. I like the idea of a like button though. I think quality posts from both sides of a debate should be encouraged but I have a fear that any rating system would be abused with people marking some posters down just because they disagree with their opinion.

 

e. If Full Members were given the opportunity to meet face to face occassionally there would be far less abuse between these people. Example of how to achieve this? Even though I'm 51, I would love to play some recreational 7-a-side footie (time permitting) and a chance to chat Saints stuff over a pint afterwards would be a bonus too. The forum games seemed a good idea, but if you're not available it's a one off event that you miss, plus a full on game on a full sized pitch might be too much for some of us older chaps. This is just one idea to get people together and remove the animosity that sometimes exists?

 

If someone was organising this then I think I would be up for it if I'm not otherwise engaged. Good idea.

 

f. Perhaps Full Members should be prepared to reveal their names on their profile, but ONLY other Full Members should be able to see this info. Knowing someone by their first name rather than a username would disuade abuse IMO.

 

Hmm. I really don't think it does. It is after all your internet 'persona'. They should bring back the pictures of delldays on his ship though or Al Da Man

 

Hey, these are just a few ideas, but there needs to be clear ground between being a Full Member and a Registered User or Guest. Hope the forum gets better and that the 'fresh start' works, because I was seriously thinking of giving up the membership too.

 

I think one of the problems is the whole registered user thing anyway. Giving registered users the ability to start threads would make such a difference.

[hypochondriac]

I dont think that much with the forum itself needs to change, it is working better now and will no doubt improve as the results of testing etc com through. What needs to change imo is the attitude of some posters towards certain other posters. It's almost like certain posters are followed around from thread to thread and picked on, not by what they have said but on reputation. I guess you will always have a certain level of idiotness on an internet forum but as has been said on many a thread, if you don't have an opinion, dont post.

 

Idiocy?

[doughnutman]

I would be very happy to put my name forward. I think that when I post i offer a fair and unbiased view and could bring that to moderating this forum.

[JustMike]

Idiocy?

 

yes, that too although I do like my new word

[boxosponge]

omg, are you for real????? are you not able to find your way to the well-signposted toilets by yourself?...can you not form a queue at the catering outlets and move forward and exit it when required without being directed how to do it?....how on earth do you cope when sat in traffic, without having anyone to tell you which way to go?....exactly how many stewards would you like the club to employ so that you (and 20,000 other people) can make it swiftly to and from your seat at half-time without having to bump into or go around other people....

haha....some people......

 

Is this an example of Insulting or abusing another member - worthy of a 2 points infraction for 6 months?

 

I'm only asking to give any hopeful Mods the chance to show their way of thinking