Jump to content

Bournemouth chairman "not welcome" directors box (sigh)


NickG

Recommended Posts

Nope totally untrue.

 

It is NOT totally untrue. You have stated what happened all around you and fair enough. I am not altogether totally amazed that people who might have gone with you, or people who were sat together might have been of a similar mind, much as sections of people in the Northam take up chants which are often cringeworthy.

 

But what you are not entitled to suggest is that just because you heard one thing in a particular part of a massive stadium, that either it was universal, or indeed widespread. I must have been in a different part of the stadium to you and perhaps in a similar area to Nick, because I can categorically state that the booing where I was, happened because some didn't take up the mexican wave.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The people around me were all booing at Cortese.

 

I think we need to map this. It seems obvious from the videos, and from many posters, that the booing was in isolated pockets. We should get a plan of the seating up, and try to pin-point which small sections of the stands heard booing. We might find that fans were reacting to something else, you know, like when a different part of St Mary's has seen something wrong, say, a handball or something, that nobody near you has seen.

 

I only suggest that the fans were reacting to 'something else' in small pocket(s), because it seems to be the only sensible explaination. It's obvious from the videos that there is nothing but applause audible where the camera is. I, and other posters have confirmed the same from our postions around the stadium. As such the vast, vast, majority were clearly supportive of Cortese. Statistically the small percentage of fans with negative opinions towards Cortese should statistically be spread fairly evenly throughout the stadium. However, they only seem to have been heard in isolated pockets. As such, it would seem that people booing Cortese were somehow drawn to similar areas of Wembley. Perhaps there is some relationship with ticket price, or preferred view and disliking Cortese? Otherwise, statistically, the fact that booing occured in small pockets, makes little sense, unless of course Cortese wasn't the target of the booing, and in fact the small pockets were booing something else that only their section of the stadium could clearly see: perhaps an on-pitch event, or perhaps something an opposition fan was doing.

 

I'm not saying that the booing didn't occur, just that statisically it makes no sense, unless either something attracted like-minded people to sit together (possilbe), or the booing was targetted at something other than Cortese (probable).

Edited by Joensuu
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The people around me were all booing at Cortese.

 

The people round me were booing the guy from the Football League. That was quite categorical. And to be honest, if you remember when this happened, the length of time COrtese was on the big screen for (3 - 5 seconds), 'most' people were watching the pitch and not lingering on the screen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know if Tony has got hard information, I'll doubt it, but the assumption is clear. Our chairman is a banker by profession, who has spent some time on financing deals within sports. The five year plan was his as much as it was ML's. If we have learnt one thing about him is that he stands by his decisions. He clearly intends to see the plan through to the end, and if the family at one time or another want to divest I would have thought that he already has got a plan for how to finance a transfer of ownership. I can't see any property developers, second hand car salesmen, or for that matter letting agents getting in on that deal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is NOT totally untrue. You have stated what happened all around you and fair enough. I am not altogether totally amazed that people who might have gone with you, or people who were sat together might have been of a similar mind, much as sections of people in the Northam take up chants which are often cringeworthy.

 

But what you are not entitled to suggest is that just because you heard one thing in a particular part of a massive stadium, that either it was universal, or indeed widespread. I must have been in a different part of the stadium to you and perhaps in a similar area to Nick, because I can categorically state that the booing where I was, happened because some didn't take up the mexican wave.

 

I can categorically state that there was booing for both.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I'm not saying that the booing didn't occur, just that statisically it makes no sense, unless either something attracted like-minded people to sit together (possilbe), or the booing was targetted at something other than Cortese (probable).

 

Well, surely groups of fans who sit together at St Mary's would have made arrangements to have sat together at Wembley. That being the case and in the same way that it happens at St Mary's, a group of fans start a chant or prearrange a reaction to either something that happens, or something that is going to happen and then there are loads of fans who follow the chant like sheep, reacting before they have had time to engage their brain.

 

Take the example of the prostitute serial killer from Ipswich. It seems probable that a group of lads decided in the pub before the match probably, that they would begin this chant about us having all of our local prostitutes alive. Sick, but at least topical and taken up by quite a few others in the Northam. Now, whether loud enough to be heard in the Chapel or other parts of the ground is debateable. Where that particular chant became ridiculous is when much later in the season, or was it the following season, some moron started it again when we played Norwich, but again, other idiots, presumably mates of the spotty juvenile who started the chant, joined in.

 

Now it is not beyond the realms of possibility that some group/s with an agenda against Cortese, decided on the coaches up to Wembley to boo Cortese whenever his face featured on the big screen. I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere on here that it was planned to boo that tw*t Mawhinney at Wembley because of the 10 point deduction we suffered.

 

So nothing is very clear cut, as Joensuu points out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So the money has (or at least will) dried up then? NC has no fortune of his own to invest, we will be debt free (which would count for a lot) unless NC follows the Glazer's buy out plan. getting to the PL on the clubs own assets will be difficult mid table championship team would be our place in the scheme of things while we wait for that one good season that most clubs have to give us a chance of the PL.

OldNick puts up a bit of speculation and you immediately leap to this conclusion LOL

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know if Tony has got hard information, I'll doubt it, but the assumption is clear. Our chairman is a banker by profession, who has spent some time on financing deals within sports. The five year plan was his as much as it was ML's. If we have learnt one thing about him is that he stands by his decisions. He clearly intends to see the plan through to the end, and if the family at one time or another want to divest I would have thought that he already has got a plan for how to finance a transfer of ownership. I can't see any property developers, second hand car salesmen, or for that matter letting agents getting in on that deal.

 

Good post.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Absolutely Wes. Tiny numbers of people could have started isolated booing. This booing could have been intially directed at any number of people/events. The probability that booing for Cortese was not uniform across the stadium seems to be minimal.

 

I guess there are countless examples of this sort of thing. Take the centuries of people believing the Sun must orbit the world. It's so easy to jump to conclusions unless you study all of the variables.

 

I think it fair to say, that there is limited evidence that the booing people heard was directed at Cortese. I think it unfair that it is used against him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now it is not beyond the realms of possibility that some group/s with an agenda against Cortese, decided on the coaches up to Wembley to boo Cortese whenever his face featured on the big screen.
I just thought thousands of Saints fans read the Echo etc, saw his mug on the big screen and booed him, many in pantomine style because they were unhappy at him ciriticising Pardew at the time. Nothing preplanned, just a natural reaction. Why are there all these desperate posts suggesting it didn't happen, there were only two men and dog doing it or it happened this way or that?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just thought thousands of Saints fans read the Echo etc, saw his mug on the big screen and booed him, many in pantomine style because they were unhappy at him ciriticising Pardew at the time. Nothing preplanned, just a natural reaction. Why are there all these desperate posts suggesting it didn't happen, there were only two men and dog doing it or it happened this way or that?

 

Because only certain areas of the crowd seem to have heard it. Listen again to the video on a previous page of this thread... hear any booing?

 

Edit: Oh, and hopefully not 'desperate'. Frankly, I don't care one way or another. I'm just trying to apply logic to events.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When did booing of Cortese take place?

 

The only reason for asking was that where I was there were two cases of booing, one for what I thought was for Malwhinney at the start when his name was announced (I wasn't looking at the screen) and the second, after each Mexican Wave failed with the Carlisle fans. It wasn't until coming on here that there was a connection to Cortese.

 

Has anyone admitted booing at Cortese (rather than assummed they were)?

Edited by Doctoroncall
grammar police
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well no because with a lot of the rumour (the Francis Benali one for example) I know that they are more than just rumours.

 

but again you only hear 1 side of the story so commenting on something without knowing the full facts is just guessing

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by stevegrant

Well I could do, but strangely, the statement that was released on the OS in the middle of May (17th or 18th, can't remember exactly) seems to have mysteriously disappeared, where Cortese said that the speculation about Alan Pardew's future was "without exception, ill-informed".

 

On the day Pardew's sacking was announced, journalists were briefed that Cortese claims that in the summer, he had to persuade Markus Liebherr that Pardew was worth sticking with [as reproduced by the BBC's Paul Fletcher in his blog], which (whether true or, as would be more logical given the very obvious dislike AP and NC had for each other, the complete opposite of the truth) proves that the speculation about AP's future in May was not in any way "ill-informed". It was bang on the money.

Again THIS, some people need to open their eyes

 

And some people need the ability of an 11 year old to apply some common sense.

 

I heard that Liebherr had commented to someone during a game that he was unhappy with Pardew. This was way before the end of the season (possibly before Wembley) and something I ignored because I did not believe it to be true. I just thought it was out of character for Markus and especially as Cortese keeps quiet about these things. Since then several reliable people have said they believed the information was kosher, enough for me to accept that this could well be true.

 

So what you have is that Liebherr did not rate Pardew, but Cortese thought he was the best candidate to take us up the following season. It must be equally apparent to all of us, that although Liebherr paid the bills, Cortese ran the whole show. There is absolutely no way that Cortese would have risked this season with Pardew, unless he believed that he thought Pardew would be here for the end and the best candidate for doing the job. Something he clearly understood when he issued the statement on Pardews sacking, knowing that action at that point would do no favours for getting us up this season.

 

So when Cortese issued that statement in May regarding Pardew, he was the manager he believed would be in charge of us for that season. There are no lies or contradictions here. I fully accept that at a previous stage the owner was not fully enamoured, but he was not dictating this decision. I also accept that Cortese reviewed who would be managing Saints before the last season ended. But at the end of all this, Pardew was kept on as the best person to get that job done and they agreed and planned the future actions and finances for getting that job done.

As for Eddie Mitchell, just what has the club publically stated? Absolutely nothing, not even the fact he left a bar bill unpaid! Just because some gobsheite has pleaded the old "mate down the pub routine" in telling all the world what a thwat he is, this is picked up and used against Cortese. Just who the fook do you think you are protecting, next it's going to be he managed to get a train to run on time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OldNick puts up a bit of speculation and you immediately leap to this conclusion LOL

 

no it wasn't nick and if you had read a bit further you would have found my second post

 

Yeah I get most of that but IF NC buys the club he's going to have to borrow to do so (unless he has a big hidden fortune) will he then put the debt into the club? living within our means is fine (I think it's a good idea I'd rather not see the club threatened with admin again) the five year plan will be a lot harder to achieve (not impossible) with out the extra cash from Markus that was implied we would get as we climbed the divisions. I'm probably putting too much thought into a throw away line in one post HTBH

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because only certain areas of the crowd seem to have heard it. Listen again to the video on a previous page of this thread... hear any booing?

Re the booing, I remember watching the game back having recorded it on my Sky+ box, and I remember the commentator having a chuckle at Liebherr getting a massive cheer and Cortese getting a "much more lukewarm" (I think they were the words used) reception. I'll have a look again tonight if I get time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re the booing, I remember watching the game back having recorded it on my Sky+ box, and I remember the commentator having a chuckle at Liebherr getting a massive cheer and Cortese getting a "much more lukewarm" (I think they were the words used) reception. I'll have a look again tonight if I get time.

 

That would certainly change things. It would be interesting to re-watch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And some people need the ability of an 11 year old to apply some common sense.

 

I heard that Liebherr had commented to someone during a game that he was unhappy with Pardew. This was way before the end of the season (possibly before Wembley) and something I ignored because I did not believe it to be true. I just thought it was out of character for Markus and especially as Cortese keeps quiet about these things. Since then several reliable people have said they believed the information was kosher, enough for me to accept that this could well be true.

 

So what you have is that Liebherr did not rate Pardew, but Cortese thought he was the best candidate to take us up the following season. It must be equally apparent to all of us, that although Liebherr paid the bills, Cortese ran the whole show. There is absolutely no way that Cortese would have risked this season with Pardew, unless he believed that he thought Pardew would be here for the end and the best candidate for doing the job. Something he clearly understood when he issued the statement on Pardews sacking, knowing that action at that point would do no favours for getting us up this season.

 

So when Cortese issued that statement in May regarding Pardew, he was the manager he believed would be in charge of us for that season. There are no lies or contradictions here. I fully accept that at a previous stage the owner was not fully enamoured, but he was not dictating this decision. I also accept that Cortese reviewed who would be managing Saints before the last season ended. But at the end of all this, Pardew was kept on as the best person to get that job done and they agreed and planned the future actions and finances for getting that job done.

As for Eddie Mitchell, just what has the club publically stated? Absolutely nothing, not even the fact he left a bar bill unpaid! Just because some gobsheite has pleaded the old "mate down the pub routine" in telling all the world what a thwat he is, this is picked up and used against Cortese. Just who the fook do you think you are protecting, next it's going to be he managed to get a train to run on time.

Excluding the first and last paragraph of your post, I agree this is a good assessment and probably correct but there is good information out there (without disclosing good sources) that Pardew wanted out but could not afford just to walk away, Reed was tasked to look for a replacement by Cortese as far back as the close season etc..etc..etc so I can understand the posters views you incorporated as quotes in your reply. The truth is out there but depending on what side of the rumour fence you are on it all gets a bit slanted
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re the booing, I remember watching the game back having recorded it on my Sky+ box, and I remember the commentator having a chuckle at Liebherr getting a massive cheer and Cortese getting a "much more lukewarm" (I think they were the words used) reception. I'll have a look again tonight if I get time.

 

That's exactly what happened. I was abroad skiing at the time of the game and had to make do with watching on Sky in a bar. The camera went to Markus, cue a massive cheer, then along to Cortese for some pantomime booing. It wasn't a full-on boo, more tongue in cheek, but it DEFINITELY happened as some other guys in the bar asked me why his own fans were booing him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Excluding the first and last paragraph of your post, I agree this is a good assessment and probably correct but there is good information out there (without disclosing good sources) that Pardew wanted out but could not afford just to walk away,

 

I've never really been in the know about anything but I do know a bloke who works for a press agency. He never really deals much with football, so isn't the source of much football ITK's. (Politics is his special brand of knowledge/rumours). He did tell however tell me that a guy who does know a bit (dont know who) told him that Pardew was being touted around other jobs by his agent and this was the start of his demise at saints. I never posted it because; 1. I dont know who this "other" guy is and 2. You just get loads of abuse. However, this fits in with what you're saying, so could make sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's exactly what happened. I was abroad skiing at the time of the game and had to make do with watching on Sky in a bar. The camera went to Markus, cue a massive cheer, then along to Cortese for some pantomime booing. It wasn't a full-on boo, more tongue in cheek, but it DEFINITELY happened as some other guys in the bar asked me why his own fans were booing him.
I really do thin kit was unfortunate timing and not against Cortese, the fans were in party mood and a Mexican wave was stopped and it happened when it got to NC. I suspect there may have been some who booed but you get all sorts in life. It doesn't matter anyway as peoples minds are set.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really do thin kit was unfortunate timing and not against Cortese, the fans were in party mood and a Mexican wave was stopped and it happened when it got to NC. I suspect there may have been some who booed but you get all sorts in life. It doesn't matter anyway as peoples minds are set.

 

I wasn't there so can't comment exactly what happened in the ground. However, it didn't sound like the end of a Mexican Wave boo. There was an enormous cheer for Markus first, obviously for him and nothing else, just a massive extended cheer and applause for the 5 or 10 seconds when Markus was on screen. Then it moved along to NC, and while there was indeed "booing", it was clearly tongue in cheek, didn't last for too long, and there was also some applause and laughter too. Also, as Steve said earlier, the commentators picked up on it too, though clearly didn't elaborate as to why.

 

I think this was around the time when the fans were hoping for a public show of support for the manager from NC which hadn't come. As a consequence AP's appearances on TV were massively endorsed also, with the booing seemingly intended as a light-hearted nudge in the ribs at the CEO to endorse his man.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If anyone does dig this video out, it'd be really interesting to see. There are no videos of the booing online that I can find. It would be good to watch it, to at least work out which part of the game it happened in. That should help clear up, or back up the Mawhinney & Mexican suggestions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There was an enormous cheer for Markus first, obviously for him and nothing else, just a massive extended cheer and applause for the 5 or 10 seconds when Markus was on screen. Then it moved along to NC, and while there was indeed "booing", it was clearly tongue in cheek

 

So, end of 'debate' then?

 

Yes: there were boos

 

Yes: it was tongue-in-check

 

Yes: it's been blown out of proportion

 

Yes: there is no story here (conspiracy theories aside)

 

Yes: Let's let bygones be bygones and all get behind a successful remainder of the season for the team we ALL support

 

Yes?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wasn't there so can't comment exactly what happened in the ground. However, it didn't sound like the end of a Mexican Wave boo. There was an enormous cheer for Markus first, obviously for him and nothing else, just a massive extended cheer and applause for the 5 or 10 seconds when Markus was on screen. Then it moved along to NC, and while there was indeed "booing", it was clearly tongue in cheek, didn't last for too long, and there was also some applause and laughter too. Also, as Steve said earlier, the commentators picked up on it too, though clearly didn't elaborate as to why.

 

I think this was around the time when the fans were hoping for a public show of support for the manager from NC which hadn't come. As a consequence AP's appearances on TV were massively endorsed also, with the booing seemingly intended as a light-hearted nudge in the ribs at the CEO to endorse his man.

sounds very plausible
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I live in bournemouth and their Echo is running and article which i presume will be played by radio solent before tomorrows match. Hower basically says he was happy to stay at bmouth. It doesnt really say much more than that other than he considers it all water on the bridge.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Excluding the first and last paragraph of your post, I agree this is a good assessment and probably correct but there is good information out there (without disclosing good sources) that Pardew wanted out but could not afford just to walk away, Reed was tasked to look for a replacement by Cortese as far back as the close season etc..etc..etc so I can understand the posters views you incorporated as quotes in your reply. The truth is out there but depending on what side of the rumour fence you are on it all gets a bit slanted

 

I don't know for sure if Markus actually made the statement about Pardew, just fully prepared to accept others argument based around this point and others who are trusted. The one thing I do know is that Saints had been looking as you pointed out at some time, but were no longer looking well before May 18th. As for your information which sort of ties into duckhunters, I am just not in the know, but it would make sense. There is more than enough in the open to say this was something that was not planned or initially expected. You really are in the realms of the no lunar landings to put up a cohesive case for the opposite.

 

Normally if the billionaire owner of a club says he wants the manager gone, there is normally very little delay in that happening, so I can fully understand Pardews unease with the whole situation. This may explain why Pardew was not on top of his game and why pre-season never produced.

 

Cortese is by no means user freindly but without doubt he is doing his utmost to push Saints forward. I love the fact he stands up against mouthy thwats like Mitchell, particularly when he does things in private. If Mitchell then decides to reveal all with no need to do so, more fool him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, end of 'debate' then?

 

Yes: there were boos

 

Yes: it was tongue-in-check

 

Yes: it's been blown out of proportion

 

Yes: there is no story here (conspiracy theories aside)

 

Yes: Let's let bygones be bygones and all get behind a successful remainder of the season for the team we ALL support

 

Yes?

 

Yes.

 

Absolutely. Nothing to gain by trying to find a story in the sacking. I don't care now, I'm only interested in moving forward and supporting NA. Good shout getting Chappie back too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just thought thousands of Saints fans read the Echo etc, saw his mug on the big screen and booed him, many in pantomine style because they were unhappy at him ciriticising Pardew at the time. Nothing preplanned, just a natural reaction. Why are there all these desperate posts suggesting it didn't happen, there were only two men and dog doing it or it happened this way or that?

 

Thats exactly what happened as far as I am concerned. I was there and plenty of people booed near me who were neither ****ed, or yoof, or whatever. Quite intentional, slightly pantomime but not tongue in cheek as such - i.e. still done with some feeling as they felt they were supporting Pardew. I am sure it was instinctive and not planned FWIW.

 

Time to move on though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again THIS, some people need to open their eyes

 

FF, I quite like reading your posts and find most of them very interesting. You've provided good insight on a number of occassions.

 

However, you've really got to let this go, and let us all let it go, and move on. You're sounding more bitter every time you post. Some people may need to open their eyes with regards the NC / AP relationship, b ut equally some people need to give it a rest.

 

As for the Mitchell thing. He comes across as a dodgy car dealer idiot, and is too quick to open his gob in the press to try and ingratiate himself, presumably, with the Bournemouth fans. I think it was fairly well known that he was desperate for Howe to get the job here as Bompey are skint. They may have got promoted, but there's little additional money in L1 versus L2.

 

I'm guessing that Howe would have taken the job had he been first in the queue. When it became apparent that NC wanted NA (information courtesy of another gobby chairman), and that it may all go belly up, Howe decided that he wasn't goping to be anyones second choice. My guess is that he wasn't offered the job, but Mitchell decided to big himself up with the fans once Howe 'ruled himself out' - different to turning down the job.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really do think it was unfortunate timing and not against Cortese, the fans were in party mood and a Mexican wave was stopped and it happened when it got to NC. I suspect there may have been some who booed but you get all sorts in life. It doesn't matter anyway as peoples minds are set.

 

This is exactly what happened. I remember it very well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There was booing and it was directed at Cortese.

At the time it really took me by surprise.

IIRC the mexican wave started much later in the proceedings,while the game was underway,whereas the booing was prior to the kick off.

There was a significant time delay between the booing,when Corteses' face appeared on the big screen,and the booing for people not taking part in the Mexican wave.

Edited by saint lard
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am just not in the know, but it would make sense.

 

It's not necessary to be ITK. Some of us may know more than others, but at the moment nothing is certain before it has been confirmed on the OS. Nevertheless it is valuable to speculate, provided it is built on some kind of evidence and some kind of assessment of likelihood. The opinionated nonsense I give a wide berth, but I generally like your posts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think we need to map this. It seems obvious from the videos, and from many posters, that the booing was in isolated pockets. We should get a plan of the seating up, and try to pin-point which small sections of the stands heard booing. We might find that fans were reacting to something else, you know, like when a different part of St Mary's has seen something wrong, say, a handball or something, that nobody near you has seen.

 

I only suggest that the fans were reacting to 'something else' in small pocket(s), because it seems to be the only sensible explaination. It's obvious from the videos that there is nothing but applause audible where the camera is. I, and other posters have confirmed the same from our postions around the stadium. As such the vast, vast, majority were clearly supportive of Cortese. Statistically the small percentage of fans with negative opinions towards Cortese should statistically be spread fairly evenly throughout the stadium. However, they only seem to have been heard in isolated pockets. As such, it would seem that people booing Cortese were somehow drawn to similar areas of Wembley. Perhaps there is some relationship with ticket price, or preferred view and disliking Cortese? Otherwise, statistically, the fact that booing occured in small pockets, makes little sense, unless of course Cortese wasn't the target of the booing, and in fact the small pockets were booing something else that only their section of the stadium could clearly see: perhaps an on-pitch event, or perhaps something an opposition fan was doing.

 

I'm not saying that the booing didn't occur, just that statisically it makes no sense, unless either something attracted like-minded people to sit together (possilbe), or the booing was targetted at something other than Cortese (probable).

 

The booing when Cortese appeared happened more than once. They were booing at him. Others have also confirmed this I see.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I presumed you asked them why they were booing or was that your own conclusion?

 

People booed on two separate occasions when Cortese appeared on the screen. Others have confirmed this to be the case and the commentator also made a remark according to Steve. Bit of a coincidence if they were not booing Cortese.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...