Not under Pardew!

[saintscottofthenortham]

Credible argument - nice use of anatomical phraseology. Are you the team doctor?

 

Nice use of bullsheeite words to try and belittle my counter argument... I would love to understand what you mean, but I was far too busy having the time of my life whilst I was at school to pay any attention to the sort of nonsense you have come back at me with. Go back and lay in bed, turn on your bedside lamp, put on you reading glasses and keep reading your english literature whilst your missus' pleasure's herself under the duvet. Oh... dont forget your glass of milk.

[CanadaSaint]

Tonight was exactly the kind of game we would have drawn under pardew -a tight game away from home where we eke out a lead. Actually the reason we drew the game -our inability to keep the ball when we went 1up- has pardew's legacy all over it. The quicker we change it, as adkins said in the post-match interview, the more likely we'll hold onto these games.

 

That's pretty much how I feel, only I said in the game thread that it was the kind of game we lost under AP - a tight game on a heavy pitch against a bottom-third team playing above itself.

 

And we heard another excellent Adkins interview - no meaningless platitudes, no crap excuses, just a very firm statement that this was "two points lost" and a commitment to change the things causing it.

[doddisalegend]

Tonight was exactly the kind of game we would have drawn under pardew -a tight game away from home where we eke out a lead against a team we should be beating. Actually the reason we drew the game -our inability to keep the ball when we went 1up- has pardew's legacy all over it. The quicker we change it, as adkins said in the post-match interview, the more likely we'll hold onto these games.

 

I believe we won this fixture under Pardew last season 1-0.........................

 

 

APs gone no point dwelling on it Nigel is our man and has my backing. I do wish though people would stop trying to re-write history and make out AP was a disaster of a manager he wasn't, he was a good manager who won a lot more than he lost.

Edited 28 September, 2010 by doddisalegend

[St Lej]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1316011/Southampton-keen-Liverpool-starlet-Nathan-Eccleston.html

[saintscottofthenortham]

I believe we won this fixture under Pardew last season 1-0.........................

 

We did you are correct. 5 points!

[Legod Third Coming]

I believe we won this fixture under Pardew last season 1-0.........................

 

Don't let facts get in the way of an opportunity to prove that Pardew couldn't cut it in these fixtures...

 

Which was not even my point.

 

This is a poor result, very very poor.

[Red and White Army]

I would be interested in seeing a poll on how many posters think we will get promoted this season.

[MarkSFC]

What a truly ridiculous thread...why even bother!!

 

I will comment though, just because these types of threads need quelling!!

 

IF Pardew had still of been in charge we would still have the sane team playing predictable generally long ball upto the big man football (especially while Lallana was out).

 

IF Pardew was in charge still we still would not have signed the striker we ate desperate for, the wide pacey player we didn't replace Antonio and Papa with, and we'd still lack a different (better) option in centre midfield.

 

And given that Pardew managed to fail in this recruitment in the months he had over the summer, what posseses anyone to think he would manage them all via loans.

 

Adkins WILL 100% IMO get us promoted if not as Champions then certainly as runners-up. Last year when the vast majority were questioning whether we would even stay up let alone get into play-offs I was confident.

 

I'm even more confident this season that we will win more than the 83 we did last year and I should think 87/88 will be top two.

 

The reason for my optimism is not blind faith it's based on these points:

 

•we have only let in 8 goals in 9 games-4th best

•adkins is incredibly positive and makes impactful subs already with a group he hardly knows

•Rickie WILL start scoring and once he does the whole team will explode

•the style of football Adkins plays suits our players and is effective when implemented. He also is implementing planB,C,and D.

•we will sign a couple or three loanees

•none of the other teams look better than we do-seriously

 

I stated on a thread before the MKDons game that I thought we could win three and draw one from the first 4 games of Adkins reighn. That would have put us on 14. A win on Saturday will put us on 12 points ONE point behind where Norwich were last season.

 

If pardew had still been here I for one would be far less confident than I am right now that we will get automatic promotion.

 

At the end of last season I had every faith in him but he failed overall in the summer in terms of key signings and clearly could not motivate the players or get them effective enough from game one. Last season he had an excuse this season he didn't.

 

I was sceptical when Adkins was appointed but the more I hear from him and watch the team the more impressed I am.

 

Corteses best decision so far by a mile!!

 

Promotion...not under Pardew.

[saintscottofthenortham]

What a truly ridiculous thread...why even bother!!

 

I will comment though, just because these types of threads need quelling!!

 

IF Pardew had still of been in charge we would still have the sane team playing predictable generally long ball upto the big man football (especially while Lallana was out).

 

IF Pardew was in charge still we still would not have signed the striker we ate desperate for, the wide pacey player we didn't replace Antonio and Papa with, and we'd still lack a different (better) option in centre midfield.

 

And given that Pardew managed to fail in this recruitment in the months he had over the summer, what posseses anyone to think he would manage them all via loans.

 

Adkins WILL 100% IMO get us promoted if not as Champions then certainly as runners-up. Last year when the vast majority were questioning whether we would even stay up let alone get into play-offs I was confident.

 

I'm even more confident this season that we will win more than the 83 we did last year and I should think 87/88 will be top two.

 

The reason for my optimism is not blind faith it's based on these points:

 

•we have only let in 8 goals in 9 games-4th best

•adkins is incredibly positive and makes impactful subs already with a group he hardly knows

•Rickie WILL start scoring and once he does the whole team will explode

•the style of football Adkins plays suits our players and is effective when implemented. He also is implementing planB,C,and D.

•we will sign a couple or three loanees

•none of the other teams look better than we do-seriously

 

I stated on a thread before the MKDons game that I thought we could win three and draw one from the first 4 games of Adkins reighn. That would have put us on 14. A win on Saturday will put us on 12 points ONE point behind where Norwich were last season.

 

If pardew had still been here I for one would be far less confident than I am right now that we will get automatic promotion.

 

At the end of last season I had every faith in him but he failed overall in the summer in terms of key signings and clearly could not motivate the players or get them effective enough from game one. Last season he had an excuse this season he didn't.

 

I was sceptical when Adkins was appointed but the more I hear from him and watch the team the more impressed I am.

 

Corteses best decision so far by a mile!!

 

Promotion...not under Pardew.

 

This.

[Goalie66]

I think Steve has raised a good point and that is Pardew built a team that did perform well most of last season and NEARLY overcame the -10. Adkins does not have the luxury of building his team but will still be expected to produce results to get us promotion. This is not a Pardew v Adkins thread because I think both are good managers but I also think the pressure Adkins is under will eventually communicate to the team when results do not go his way.

 

Whatever Pardew and his two of his staff allegedly did and their subsequent sacking HAS had a destabilising effect on the team and results. Pardew built a good side and from his comments knew that we needed to replace Antonio and Waigo as well as another midfielder. We assume that Prado was the midfielder so the only signings short were the pace up front.

 

No manager can legislate for injuries and the loss of form of Lambert, Puncheon, Hammond etc but we do have good players not even getting a game !!.

 

I listened to the game last night and Saturday on the radio and we appear to be way short still on confidence as well as creating chances to dominate as we should with these players. Bournemouth will be a must win so the pressure will only intensify to repeat the run that we had last year.

[doddisalegend]

What a truly ridiculous thread...why even bother!!

 

I will comment though, just because these types of threads need quelling!!

 

IF Pardew had still of been in charge we would still have the sane team playing predictable generally long ball upto the big man football (especially while Lallana was out).

 

IF Pardew was in charge still we still would not have signed the striker we ate desperate for, the wide pacey player we didn't replace Antonio and Papa with, and we'd still lack a different (better) option in centre midfield.

 

And given that Pardew managed to fail in this recruitment in the months he had over the summer, what posseses anyone to think he would manage them all via loans.

 

Adkins WILL 100% IMO get us promoted if not as Champions then certainly as runners-up. Last year when the vast majority were questioning whether we would even stay up let alone get into play-offs I was confident.

 

I'm even more confident this season that we will win more than the 83 we did last year and I should think 87/88 will be top two.

 

The reason for my optimism is not blind faith it's based on these points:

 

•we have only let in 8 goals in 9 games-4th best

•adkins is incredibly positive and makes impactful subs already with a group he hardly knows

•Rickie WILL start scoring and once he does the whole team will explode

•the style of football Adkins plays suits our players and is effective when implemented. He also is implementing planB,C,and D.

•we will sign a couple or three loanees

•none of the other teams look better than we do-seriously

I stated on a thread before the MKDons game that I thought we could win three and draw one from the first 4 games of Adkins reighn. That would have put us on 14. A win on Saturday will put us on 12 points ONE point behind where Norwich were last season.

 

If pardew had still been here I for one would be far less confident than I am right now that we will get automatic promotion.

 

At the end of last season I had every faith in him but he failed overall in the summer in terms of key signings and clearly could not motivate the players or get them effective enough from game one. Last season he had an excuse this season he didn't.

 

I was sceptical when Adkins was appointed but the more I hear from him and watch the team the more impressed I am.

 

Corteses best decision so far by a mile!!

 

Promotion...not under Pardew.

 

what evidence do you have for any of that? thats just a load of opinion dressed up as fact. Lots of people have said that with the money and abillity of the team that a monkey could get this team winning and then use this statement to claim AP is crap only played long ball yadda yadda. Thing is AP got results with this team, Wilikins couldn't and Adkins might. People really should stop trying to re-write history to make out sacking AP was good for the club so far it hasn't been. Hopefully Nigel will turn it around only time will tell.

[saint lard]

Pardew is gone,unfortunately.

But i always felt under him we were moving in the right direction and we were a big fish in a small pool.

We were more often than not expecting a win against the oposition as we were getting results.

In my opininon we are and will remain a mediocre league one side whilst under the tenure of Adkins.

I truly hope i am wrong and Adkins makes the best of what he has got,just like Pardew.

The blind faith that some people had in stating what an 'inspired',excellent' aquisition when Adkins was put in place was,to me,way over the top.

All based on what he had done at another club,two promotions and one relegation, with no pressure on his shoulders,little expectation and with players with little pedigree and ego's.

Well.he could not be further from his comfort zone if he tried.

I am amazed how many seem to post 'as fact' that he will take us forward.

The furthest he will take us is possiblly out of this league,shortsighted appointment and not for the long term.

The manergerial revolving door will be in operation again soon,imo.

I don't claim any of the above to be fact,just opinion,those who oppose my opinion...thats what you should base your blind faith on also.

[shurlock]

what evidence do you have for any of that? thats just a load of opinion dressed up as fact. Lots of people have said that with the money and abillity of the team that a monkey could get this team winning and then use this statement to claim AP is crap only played long ball yadda yadda. Thing is AP got results with this team, Wilikins couldn't and Adkins might. People really should stop trying to re-write history to make out sacking AP was good for the club so far it hasn't been. Hopefully Nigel will turn it around only time will tell.

 

So why don't you practise what you preach and not get your knickers in a twist-give adkins some time and a body of results before judging that this wouldn't have happened under pardew. It's totally moronic that you&legod are reaching such absolute conclusions after 4 games. But if you want to play that game fact is that pardew was not achieving much better with an injured lallana and an out-of-sorts lambert - i.e. the same kind of situation facing adkins. Hence our poor start in the league.

Edited 29 September, 2010 by shurlock

[Lord Duckhunter]

All based on what he had done at another club,two promotions and one relegation, with no pressure on his shoulders,little expectation and with players with little pedigree and ego's.

Well.he could not be further from his comfort zone if he tried.

I am amazed how many seem to post 'as fact' that he will take us forward.

The furthest he will take us is possiblly out of this league,shortsighted appointment and not for the long term.

The manergerial revolving door will be in operation again soon,imo.

I don't claim any of the above to be fact,just opinion,those who oppose my opinion...thats what you should base your blind faith on also.

 

Was Lawrie out of his "comfort zone" when he arrived from Grimsby,was he not at a job with "no pressure on his shoulders"? How would he cope with our star names as he'd only dealt with players with "little pedigree and ego's."?

Thankfully the board didn't take your approach, and they decided that a good young Manager who'd done some decent things with a smaller club was the way forward.

[saintscottofthenortham]

Seems some have forgotten that under AP we dropped points to the likes of Colchester, Brentford, Oldham, Stockport, Wycombe etc etc. I was stunned when Pards was sacked, now I'm glad. We have a good manager in Adkins, and is someone I believe will take us far if the moronic fans don't get on his back after a handful of games, thus creating needless extra pressure. Cannot believe that some seem to actually want the bloke to fail, because so far alot of you have been nothing but negative. I didn't go to the game last night, but just by listening to it I think I can safely say that we played better at Huish last night than we did last season, because down there last year we certainly didn't deserve to win. Results count yes, but look at the bigger picture... Hitting the woodwork twice and suffering an equaliser through a penalty isn't all that bad away at a sh*t ground on a miserable Tuesday night.

 

AP has gone, get over it and get behind our f*cking manager ffs. If you can't do that, do the entire club a favour and f*ck off.

[doddisalegend]

So why don't you practise what you preach and not get your knickers in a twist-give adkins some time and a body of results before judging that this wouldn't have happened under pardew. It's totally moronic that you&legod are reaching such absolute conclusions after 4 games. But if you want to play that game fact is that pardew was not achieving much better with an injured lallana and an out-of-sorts lambert - i.e. the same kind of situation facing adkins. Hence our poor start in the league.

 

I what point did I have a go at Nigel? As I said he may achieve stuff with this team it's to early to tell (hence the might) I haven't had a bad word to say againt Adkins since he arravied (or before). I'm more annoyed by the fact people are so ready to to re-write history on a manager that won us our first silverware since 76, had a win ratio of around 54% and finished as the seventh best manager in all for divisions last year becuase it doesn't fit there agendas. No matter what you think of him as a person AP was a good manager the facts/stats bear this out. It matters not now we have to see how Nigel does.

[Legod Third Coming]

what evidence do you have for any of that? thats just a load of opinion dressed up as fact. Lots of people have said that with the money and abillity of the team that a monkey could get this team winning and then use this statement to claim AP is crap only played long ball yadda yadda. Thing is AP got results with this team, Wilikins couldn't and Adkins might. People really should stop trying to re-write history to make out sacking AP was good for the club so far it hasn't been. Hopefully Nigel will turn it around only time will tell.

 

That was precisely my point thank you.

 

What is required for this team to win?

 

Why does it need more time? What will be achieved in that time?

 

Why are the current players not good enough to beat Yeovil but were good enough to beat Bristol Rovers 4-0 - how is that moving forwards and not backwards?

 

All of these are genuine questions that blind faith and optimism are preventing some normally seasoned and critical posters from asking.

 

I no more want Adkins to fail than do I want Portsmouth to gain promotion.

 

BUT, if we are not winning last night, and posters believe that this is symptomatic of Pardew's regime (a regime I remind you where he won 27 of 42 games from October to May) then NOTHING has changed by changing manager.

 

And I believe with our current squad and investment, that is nothing short of criminal.

 

So what is the optimism based on? Because on current form we have little chance of promotion without some serious turnaround. Where is that turnaround coming from and why?

 

These are all genuine questions which a football board should be about debating - not the pointless drivel spouted about sex and travel from the children at the back of the class...

[Legod Third Coming]

Seems some have forgotten that under AP we dropped points to the likes of Colchester, Brentford, Oldham, Stockport, Wycombe etc etc. I was stunned when Pards was sacked, now I'm glad. We have a good manager in Adkins, and is someone I believe will take us far if the moronic fans don't get on his back after a handful of games, thus creating needless extra pressure. Cannot believe that some seem to actually want the bloke to fail, because so far alot of you have been nothing but negative. I didn't go to the game last night, but just by listening to it I think I can safely say that we played better at Huish last night than we did last season, because down there last year we certainly didn't deserve to win. Results count yes, but look at the bigger picture... Hitting the woodwork twice and suffering an equaliser through a penalty isn't all that bad away at a sh*t ground on a miserable Tuesday night.

AP has gone, get over it and get behind our f*cking manager ffs. If you can't do that, do the entire club a favour and f*ck off.

 

And those things didn't happen when Pardew was here, of course? And we didn't drop points against Colchester when we failed to beat them last week? What's changed?

 

Oh and I'm sure the debate on an internet forum is really cripping Adkin's decision making - I guess he's never had fans question his methods, tactics or ability before.

[The9]

Same players, poorer results thus far.

 

Once Pardew had these players our results were:

 

October

WWWWWD

 

November

WWLDWW

 

December

WWWWLWL

 

January

WDWWDW

 

February

DWLWDW

 

March

WLWLWWW

 

April

DWWWWDW

 

May

LW

 

Now tell me, honestly, shouldn't Adkins be getting better from these players?

 

To remind you, Pardew's REAL record despite what all these history deniers tell you, from October onwards was:

 

Played 42

Won 27

Drew 8

Lost 7

 

Have I missed something ? Are people actually trying to claim that Pardew was anything other than a massive success for Saints ?

 

To be fair to Adkins there was a rot setting in when he took over and it's going to take him some time to turn it around, I'd say it's beyond just the personnel.

[Wes Tender]

You're usually a bit more objective than this LGTC. Don't you think it's a bit disingenuous making these comparisons without balance? For example, how do you think Pardew would have fared without Lallana and Barnard? Do you believe that Lambert would have been transformed because Pardew was still here, or do you think that Lambert's form up to that point of the season was indicative of him being off colour? And as for the implied comparison with Adkins, when he has had the full season in charge too, then that will be the time to compare his record with Pardew's. Personally, I reckon that Adkins record will be the better one.

[Cabrone]

We're all really disappointed with last night's draw but I think it's very harsh to hammer NA after only 4 games. You have to give him the season and see what he can do.

 

For me the biggest difference between this season and last was the form of Ricky Lambert. An on form Lambert would have taken us to the top of this league and it's not NA's fault that he's in a slump.

 

Now I don't know why he's off colour but I do think that if there is anyone who can get his head right its NA.

 

Give the manager a break - he's only had a handful of games to change a shattered team and his record so far is decent. What is more the team appear to be finally waking up again.

 

'No point in crying over spilt milk' as the saying goes. AP is gone, get over it.

[The boy done well]

We're all really disappointed with last night's draw but I think it's very harsh to hammer NA after only 4 games. You have to give him the season and see what he can do.

 

For me the biggest difference between this season and last was the form of Ricky Lambert. An on form Lambert would have taken us to the top of this league and it's not NA's fault that he's in a slump.

 

Now I don't know why he's off colour but I do think that if there is anyone who can get his head right its NA.

 

Give the manager a break - he's only had a handful of games to change a shattered team and his record so far is decent. What is more the team appear to be finally waking up again.

 

'No point in crying over spilt milk' as the saying goes. AP is gone, get over it.

 

Good point regarding Lambert. He was worth loads of points to us last season and just isn't firing this. Can't scrutinize evey post in detail on here but did Le God actually go last night. We weren't that bad at all. We actually passed it around and you could count Davis' hoofs upfield on one hand.

 

I think NA's probably sowing the seeds of something pretty good here. Just hang on a bit. Rome wasn't built in a day. For what it's worth I thought we were pretty poor at Yeovil last year and got away with it with a break in the 94th minute. Our away performances against Wycombe, Brentford and Exeter were really awful and had it not been for 2 great strikes by Lambert we'd have lost to Orient. I didn't go to Tranmere but gather that was poor too. Stockport and Swindon away were dreadful too but they were early season.

 

I would agree that it's embarrassing being below the likes of Brighton, Bournemouth and Rochdale but there'll come a time in the season when they'll be slipping up and we won't be. But I thought our style of football and many of our performances (including many of our home games) under AP were poor and certainly not easy on the eye.

[Goalie66]

And people wonder why this country lost its Empire...

 

With people like that it was bloody amazing that we even created one .

[up and away]

The original post is very poor, there is only one comparison that has any merit, being the leagues games played by Pardew and Adkins this season. What the hell Pardew did to the squad in pre-season I am not completely sure, only the fact he took us backwards rather than forwards. I do know there is work required to get this team anywhere near firing on all cylinders, something Adkins inherited.

 

I am not going to be daft enough to state Adkins will be any better than Pardew until things actually happen. One thing I do strongly believe is that Pardew just did not know the answer to getting this team to play consistently well, hence the need for those special players to dig his coaching and tactical skills out of the mire. The manner in which we played at Sheffield Wednesday and followed by Adkins comments from Yeovil certainly impart the impression that he knows what needs to be done. At the present Adkins is no better than Pardew, but given the choice I would heavily favour Adkins. Because if Pardew could not sort the problem of consistency given all that time and money, I really doubt he knew the answer and would just be playing bingo in the transfer market to get lucky.

[Legod Third Coming]

You're usually a bit more objective than this LGTC. Don't you think it's a bit disingenuous making these comparisons without balance? For example, how do you think Pardew would have fared without Lallana and Barnard? Do you believe that Lambert would have been transformed because Pardew was still here, or do you think that Lambert's form up to that point of the season was indicative of him being off colour? And as for the implied comparison with Adkins, when he has had the full season in charge too, then that will be the time to compare his record with Pardew's. Personally, I reckon that Adkins record will be the better one.

 

True - it is not possible to create a direct comparison. But we know we scored with and without Rickie and Barnard. It is impossible to know how these players would be playing now if Pardew was here still but in our only away game under Pardew we hammered a far better team than Yeovil 4-0. What irks me is the claim that the current form is Pardew's doing - there is no evidence to support that - or that he somehow muddled a success rate of winning 64% of his games from the day he had the current squad in place (ie October).

 

A number of posters claimed that Pardew wasn't getting the best out of our resources. Where are they now?

 

Why has nothing improved under Adkins? When will we see improvement?

 

I didn't go last night - guilty. I don't need to go to Stamford Bridge to know Chelsea should beat Blackpool do I?

 

I did go to watch us versus Orient and Colchester and I can tell you the performances were very similar, the result exactly the same - 1 point. I, of course, will support Adkins at the ground - hell I support him here. But he's not getting any more of out of the players than Pardew did - yet... And he can't be judged when the season is over.

 

He was employed to get us promoted. He said so himself. That is the pressure he is under - not my doing, his Chairman's and his own. So, three weeks and four games in, do we look like a team who will be promoted? And if the answer is no, what needs to change?

[Legod Third Coming]

The original post is very poor, there is only one comparison that has any merit, being the leagues games played by Pardew and Adkins this season. What the hell Pardew did to the squad in pre-season I am not completely sure, only the fact he took us backwards rather than forwards. I do know there is work required to get this team anywhere near firing on all cylinders, something Adkins inherited.

 

I am not going to be daft enough to state Adkins will be any better than Pardew until things actually happen. One thing I do strongly believe is that Pardew just did not know the answer to getting this team to play consistently well, hence the need for those special players to dig his coaching and tactical skills out of the mire. The manner in which we played at Sheffield Wednesday and followed by Adkins comments from Yeovil certainly impart the impression that he knows what needs to be done. At the present Adkins is no better than Pardew, but given the choice I would heavily favour Adkins. Because if Pardew could not sort the problem of consistency given all that time and money, I really doubt he knew the answer and would just be playing bingo in the transfer market to get lucky.

 

The only camparison cannot be league games this season. Are you seriously suggesting that Pardew fluked 27 from 42 victories? What other manager in the league (any league) would not be given credit for that record?

[PokingFun]

Crikey are you still going today LGSC? Fair play to you for dogged resistance!

 

I think we will agree to disagree on this one as I can see you feel very strongly but ultimately it will be a few more games before we know for sure whether NA has the minerals to take us up.

 

He did it with Scunny so I have to have faith that he can do it with us as well but 4 games including three away and one where he had no preparation time plus the added disadvantage of Barney suspended, Lallana injured and Lambert still not firing suggests that he is doing reasonably well so far obviously in my opinion.

 

If NA can sort out the home form (he has had one home game against a top 6 or so side) then gaining 3-4 points from every 2 away games will see us soar up the table with no problem at all.

 

I respect that you feel differently, but we both want the best for Saints so lets wish NA luck and hope he can succeed. If he doesn't then I guess there will be another change at the end of the season or before and I'm not sure that would be a good thing either given our current state.

[up and away]

The only camparison cannot be league games this season. Are you seriously suggesting that Pardew fluked 27 from 42 victories? What other manager in the league (any league) would not be given credit for that record?

 

Give Pardew credit for what he did last season, just use a modicum of common sense when trying to extended that to this season and a direct comparison to Adkins. Just take Adkins results and line them up with sections of Pardews record last season and you will find sections where Adkins comes out on top.

 

One fact which you fail to take account of is that Adkins has inherited a side worse than the one that ended last season. Something Pardew demonstrated with his early results and further biased under Adkins with injuries, suspensions and trying to only now get the team fit.

 

Just a really dumb comparison, heavily influenced by factors out of one of the managers control. The proof of this pudding will come the end of the season, such is the position we have been left in. That will be the time to have a fair guide on the relative merits of each manager. What your post has done is to commit exactly the same mistake you are complaining of others previously making.

[The Kraken]

Give Pardew credit for what he did last season, just use a modicum of common sense when trying to extended that to this season and a direct comparison to Adkins. Just take Adkins results and line them up with sections of Pardews record last season and you will find sections where Adkins comes out on top.

 

One fact which you fail to take account of is that Adkins has inherited a side worse than the one that ended last season. Something Pardew demonstrated with his early results and further biased under Adkins with injuries, suspensions and trying to only now get the team fit.

 

Just a really dumb comparison, heavily influenced by factors out of one of the managers control. The proof of this pudding will come the end of the season, such is the position we have been left in. That will be the time to have a fair guide on the relative merits of each manager. What your post has done is to commit exactly the same mistake you are complaining of others previously making.

 

I tend to agree with this. Pardew was (rightly IMO) afforded the first 10 games to get his squad together and turn around our fortunes. He's therefore judged on the subsequent 36 games, for which I think he performed very, very well.

 

Despite the fact that our squad is much better now than when Pardew took over, it's only natural that Adkins will need some settling in time. Clearly not to the extent that Pardew needed, but certainly 4 or 5 games until he really understands the team, can start to get them to the fitness levels required, and instil some confidence.

 

A point dropped to Yeovil is disappointing; of course it is. But I'm not one to point at individual results in judging the overall performance of a manager. We will have some freak results over the year, Leeds last night is just one example of how stupid football can be at times. However, a point away is nothing to be sniffed at, and I just can't be overly critical at any time of drawing a league game away from home. Losing yes, but avoiding defeat, not so much.

 

Adkins seems to be getting there; as he should with the quality of squad we have. But he's now had his bedding in time, and from Saturday onwards I think is when we should really see how HIS side shapes up to last year's. I (and I'm sure most others) still maintain we're 3 players short of a squad to challenge, and this also needs to addressed asap.

[John Smith]

That was precisely my point thank you.

 

What is required for this team to win?

 

Why does it need more time? What will be achieved in that time?

 

Why are the current players not good enough to beat Yeovil but were good enough to beat Bristol Rovers 4-0 - how is that moving forwards and not backwards?

 

All of these are genuine questions that blind faith and optimism are preventing some normally seasoned and critical posters from asking.

 

I no more want Adkins to fail than do I want Portsmouth to gain promotion.

 

BUT, if we are not winning last night, and posters believe that this is symptomatic of Pardew's regime (a regime I remind you where he won 27 of 42 games from October to May) then NOTHING has changed by changing manager.

 

And I believe with our current squad and investment, that is nothing short of criminal.

 

So what is the optimism based on? Because on current form we have little chance of promotion without some serious turnaround. Where is that turnaround coming from and why?

 

These are all genuine questions which a football board should be about debating - not the pointless drivel spouted about sex and travel from the children at the back of the class...

 

Why have you made such a turnaround? Why are you so easy to turn? And it was you who started this thread and asking all these questions when you yourself, but just a couple of days ago were spouting this, and I quote:

 

"I do not doubt Adkins can be successful. It is way too early to assess whether he will be as good as manager as Pardew or to credit him with having solved problems which, in reality, I believe were simply the inconsistency that comes with being a League One side."

 

So, you have answered most of your questions yourself, the rest is just opinion, which, you have obviously decided to ignore and believe what you want to believe and not contemplate other people's opinion. Thread should be closed, you already have your answers.

[Legod Third Coming]

Why have you made such a turnaround? Why are you so easy to turn? And it was you who started this thread and asking all these questions when you yourself, but just a couple of days ago were spouting this, and I quote:

 

"I do not doubt Adkins can be successful. It is way too early to assess whether he will be as good as manager as Pardew or to credit him with having solved problems which, in reality, I believe were simply the inconsistency that comes with being a League One side."

 

So, you have answered most of your questions yourself, the rest is just opinion, which, you have obviously decided to ignore and believe what you want to believe and not contemplate other people's opinion. Thread should be closed, you already have your answers.

 

What??? There is nothing contradictory in those posts. It is too early to judge Adkins overall record - he doesn't have one. But after drawing away to one of the worst teams in the league, where is the evidence that so many seem to believe exists that Adkins is being more effective/successful than Pardew? That is the claim. In truth, it's nothing more than hope and faith.

[Toadhall Saint]

What a truly ridiculous thread...why even bother!!

 

I will comment though, just because these types of threads need quelling!!

 

IF Pardew had still of been in charge we would still have the sane team playing predictable generally long ball upto the big man football (especially while Lallana was out).

 

IF Pardew was in charge still we still would not have signed the striker we ate desperate for, the wide pacey player we didn't replace Antonio and Papa with, and we'd still lack a different (better) option in centre midfield.

 

And given that Pardew managed to fail in this recruitment in the months he had over the summer, what posseses anyone to think he would manage them all via loans.

 

Adkins WILL 100% IMO get us promoted if not as Champions then certainly as runners-up. Last year when the vast majority were questioning whether we would even stay up let alone get into play-offs I was confident.

 

I'm even more confident this season that we will win more than the 83 we did last year and I should think 87/88 will be top two.

 

The reason for my optimism is not blind faith it's based on these points:

 

•we have only let in 8 goals in 9 games-4th best

•adkins is incredibly positive and makes impactful subs already with a group he hardly knows

•Rickie WILL start scoring and once he does the whole team will explode

•the style of football Adkins plays suits our players and is effective when implemented. He also is implementing planB,C,and D.

•we will sign a couple or three loanees

•none of the other teams look better than we do-seriously

 

I stated on a thread before the MKDons game that I thought we could win three and draw one from the first 4 games of Adkins reighn. That would have put us on 14. A win on Saturday will put us on 12 points ONE point behind where Norwich were last season.

 

If pardew had still been here I for one would be far less confident than I am right now that we will get automatic promotion.

 

At the end of last season I had every faith in him but he failed overall in the summer in terms of key signings and clearly could not motivate the players or get them effective enough from game one. Last season he had an excuse this season he didn't.

 

I was sceptical when Adkins was appointed but the more I hear from him and watch the team the more impressed I am.

 

Corteses best decision so far by a mile!!

 

Promotion...not under Pardew.

 

Top post

[kraftwerk26]

I think he will too, but maybe its simply too late for this season.

 

I wonder if Fonte and Lambert specifically really want to be here still.

 

Alpine i can guarantee that Ricky does not want to leave.

[Wes Tender]

What??? There is nothing contradictory in those posts. It is too early to judge Adkins overall record - he doesn't have one. But after drawing away to one of the worst teams in the league, where is the evidence that so many seem to believe exists that Adkins is being more effective/successful than Pardew? That is the claim. In truth, it's nothing more than hope and faith.

Seems a bit of a turnaround to me, perhaps coming as a result of us failing to beat Yeovil.

 

But as you are so ready to expound the prowess of Pardew, let's for the sake of balance examine his record of last season against some similarly lowly teams, shall we?

 

How about our loss to Brighton 3-1 at home?

Our loss to Colchester 2-1 away?

Away draws, 1-1 against Brentford and Exeter?

The away draw 0-0 against Wycombe Wanderers?

The defeat 2-1 away against Tranmere?

Beaten at home 1-0 by Swindon (second defeat by them last season)

The home draw against Oldham?

The away defeat by Gillingham 2-1?

 

So would Pardew have gained us the win against Yeovil last night? Who knows? But Adkins was correct in his appraisal, that had we kept possession by playing to our strengths with a neat passing game, instead of hoofing the ball upfield (something that unfortunately characterised Pardew's teams), then we might have kept the three points and not given away the penalty.

 

Nobody can say with any degree of certainty that Pardew would have fared any better than Wilkins, let alone Adkins, so I do wish that people would stop claiming that he would have. As for the Bristol Rovers result, one goal was scored by Lallana before he was injured in that same game and Lambert had a penalty, which even as off form as he is currently, he was unlikely to miss. Barnard also scored. Much of this criticism stems from the situation that results have been harder to come by because Lallana was injured since then, Barnard missed 4 games through suspension, Lambert still isn't back in form and that there have been other distractions both off and on the pitch to unsettle the team.

 

Most of that is behind us and if Adkins can get us playing more attractive passing football, I have faith in his ability to turn it all around, with plenty of time still remaining.

[OldNick]

True - it is not possible to create a direct comparison. But we know we scored with and without Rickie and Barnard. It is impossible to know how these players would be playing now if Pardew was here still but in our only away game under Pardew we hammered a far better team than Yeovil 4-0. What irks me is the claim that the current form is Pardew's doing - there is no evidence to support that - or that he somehow muddled a success rate of winning 64% of his games from the day he had the current squad in place (ie October).

 

A number of posters claimed that Pardew wasn't getting the best out of our resources. Where are they now?

 

Why has nothing improved under Adkins? When will we see improvement?

 

I didn't go last night - guilty. I don't need to go to Stamford Bridge to know Chelsea should beat Blackpool do I?

 

I did go to watch us versus Orient and Colchester and I can tell you the performances were very similar, the result exactly the same - 1 point. I, of course, will support Adkins at the ground - hell I support him here. But he's not getting any more of out of the players than Pardew did - yet... And he can't be judged when the season is over.

 

He was employed to get us promoted. He said so himself. That is the pressure he is under - not my doing, his Chairman's and his own. So, three weeks and four games in, do we look like a team who will be promoted? And if the answer is no, what needs to change?

 

Unusually knee jerk by you LeGod.It would be interesting to see with the results that AP had last season how many games Antonio and Waigo played. They were a big difference, and an asset that NA has not at his disposal.

NA is not my choice ( Howe was and still would be)but he is our man and so i back him.

Watching last night was boring. We shift the ball across the midfield, not sharply but in a pedestrian way. That gives the opposition so much time to re-organise,.Only when Guly was in centre mid and AL was linking with RL and Punch did we look a potent force. in fact the last 10 made me feel we did have some quality and that with a bit of confidence we may improve. It comes to something when you are not confident of beating Bournemouth at home, in 40 + years............

[Lord Duckhunter]

I think given the resourses that Pardew was given last season, Paul Lambert would have taken us into the play offs.If Chelsea were given a 10 point deduction and still didn't make the Champions League spots, would their Manager be praised for doing a great job. Or would he be picking up his P45?

[saintscottofthenortham]

Posted this on the 'Yeovil - Post Match' fred, put think a few on this one need to see it to get a jist of just how peeved NA was after last night, and that the result, was very much down to bad habits this (AP's) squad has.

 

Just seen Adkins interview on Saints Player... Wow. He was one unhappy bloke! And quite right too. So many times last season, we saw ourselves throw away leads in games we SHOULD have won. Some, comfortably. This was purely down to AP having no other plan than that of hoofball and that alone cost us whether we were winning or losing because if we wernt throwing away leads, we were limping into a loss in a game where the opposition had sussed us out a week or so before hand, and stopped us playing long balls. This is still hampering us now, and it wont be until Adkins has undone all the work done by AP over the last year or so that this will change. We have played some good football since NA has arrived, and I for one am very exited about our future under him. I am just frustrated that the likes of Super Kelv, Jaidi, Seaborne, Hammond and the one saints player who I cannot understand for the bleeding life of me why people rate him... Harding, cannot help themselves but to just leather their foot through the ball without so much as looking up and just gifting the opposition possession. This, according to NA is what yet again, cost us last night.

[Topcat]

From October 2009, Pardew instilled a winning mentality and won 64%. We had lacked a winning mentality at the Club for most of the previous 4 seasons.

 

We now need Adkins to do the same and win 62%+ for an automatic promotion slot. The honeymoon is over, Adkins thinks he can get promotion and Cortese thought we were better off with Adkins than Pardew. So prove it.

[Smirking_Saint]

From October 2009, Pardew instilled a winning mentality and won 64%. We had lacked a winning mentality at the Club for most of the previous 4 seasons.

 

We now need Adkins to do the same and win 62%+ for an automatic promotion slot. The honeymoon is over, Adkins thinks he can get promotion and Cortese thought we were better off with Adkins than Pardew. So prove it.

 

I am surprised we never went for the City Central manager from Senior 1, they won the league and won every game, thats a 100% win ratio.

 

I mean with a win ratio like that, which is obviously the only way to judge any manager whatever the situation, it is surprising he hasn't made it in the top flight.

[John B]

What??? There is nothing contradictory in those posts. It is too early to judge Adkins overall record - he doesn't have one. But after drawing away to one of the worst teams in the league, where is the evidence that so many seem to believe exists that Adkins is being more effective/successful than Pardew? That is the claim. In truth, it's nothing more than hope and faith.

 

I think you make a reasonable point I would have hoped that we would have done a little better since NA came to SFC although we beat Sheff Wed I understand we did not play that well and not beating Yeovil was not good.

 

I think Pardew did OK not great especially at the start of the season where we should have done better but he was not helped by individual errors in some away games something which of course happens at this level of football.

 

So lets see what happens when/if Lambert and Lallana start scoring like they did last season.

 

Other fancied teams are not winning regularly so there is everything to play for and after beating Bournemouth in August it will be interesting what happens on Saturday

[sadoldgit]

Hoofball is often what players resort too when they either lose confidence or don't have the gumption to play to the managers instructions. Adkins found this out last night. Managers like Jack Charlton and Graham Taylor actually set up their teams to play like that. Most other managers spend their lives trying to stop their teams playing like that. Pardew must have done something right last year because his teams scored an awful lot of goals and had a very good win ratio.

[torsaint]

At last a mention of Don Corteose.Sadly it will be the Don who is judged at the end of the season. I saw nothing at Yeovil that suggested massive improvements. There were hundreds of throw-ins. One thing I did notice was that Adkins waves his arms around in a brilliant impression of George Burley.

From October 2009, Pardew instilled a winning mentality and won 64%. We had lacked a winning mentality at the Club for most of the previous 4 seasons.

 

We now need Adkins to do the same and win 62%+ for an automatic promotion slot. The honeymoon is over, Adkins thinks he can get promotion and Cortese thought we were better off with Adkins than Pardew. So prove it.

[Topcat]

I am surprised we never went for the City Central manager from Senior 1, they won the league and won every game, thats a 100% win ratio.

 

I mean with a win ratio like that, which is obviously the only way to judge any manager whatever the situation, it is surprising he hasn't made it in the top flight.

I am quoting win ratios in the same division. Do pay attention.

 

There is also the fact that Pardew inherited a Club that had forgotten what a winning mentality was. Adkins inherited a Club that had only temporarily slumped back into a losing mentality over a few games.

Edited 29 September, 2010 by Topcat

[Topcat]

At last a mention of Don Corteose.Sadly it will be the Don who is judged at the end of the season. I saw nothing at Yeovil that suggested massive improvements. There were hundreds of throw-ins. One thing I did notice was that Adkins waves his arms around in a brilliant impression of George Burley.

 

The question that arises is why Adkins failed to communicate with the players about hoofball. I hope it is not the Sturrock type of problem.

[sadoldgit]

The question that arises is why Adkins failed to communicate with the players about hoofball. I hope it is not the Sturrock type of problem.

 

If it was easy to get players to get the ball down and play it on the deck every manager would be sorted. It isn't as Adkins found out last night and as Pardew found out last year and pretty much most managers find out every week. The simple fact is that we need to win games and do we really care how Adkins does it so long as he does it? If he does as well or better than Pardew then no harm done. If he doesn't then Cortese will have a problem.

[Smirking_Saint]

I am quoting win ratios in the same division. Do pay attention.

 

There is also the fact that Pardew inherited a Club that had forgotten what a winning mentality was. Adkins inherited a Club that had only temporarily slumped back into a losing mentality over a few games.

 

I am paying attention, we are talking about win ratios, City Central were in the same division as the rest of the teams they played against so what difference does it make ?

I mean, i have talked about Southamptons situation before but only hear about Pardews win ratio, and never about anything else ?

 

Also, as i posted earlier

 

....... a sh*te pre-season, lack of planning, having 3-4 of their best players injured,unfit,suspended and the owner has died

 

also lost the manager for whatever reason whether it was knee jerk or for some sort of incident will be damaging anyway you look at it.

[Topcat]

I am paying attention, we are talking about win ratios, City Central were in the same division as the rest of the teams they played against so what difference does it make ?

You fail to grasp what I said. I quoted Pardew's win ratio (from Oct 09) in League ONE. I then said that from the start of October 2010 Adkins needed to achieve a similar win ratio in League ONE to get us automatic promotion. Those are the same Leagues!

 

Why you think it is relevant to quote roy of the rovers city central tin pot league win ratios is just about the most irrelevant comparison I have ever read. But you seem to think it is relevant.....

Edited 29 September, 2010 by Topcat
politeness

[Smirking_Saint]

You fail to grasp what I said. I quoted Pardew's win ratio (from Oct 09) in League ONE. I then said that from the start of October 2010 Adkins needed to achieve a similar win ratio in League ONE to get us automatic promotion. Those are the same Leagues!

 

Why you think it is relevant to quote roy of the rovers city central tin pot league win ratios is just about the most irrelevant comparison I have ever read. But you seem to think it is relevant........ Are you on the wacky baccy?

 

Win Ratios mean absolutely nothing to me if they are used on their own to try and force an opinion, which is what you are trying to do, thats the point i was making.

 

Just saying Mr X has a wi ratio of 65% and Mr Y has a win ratio of 59% means the square root of f*ck all unless you use it in conjunction with other factors.

 

We spent best part of 6 Million, plus whatever the Loans cost us. Our wage bill is probably one of the highest in league and probably a good amount of Championship. We had easily the best squad last year, we put together a good winning run, kept the whole team fit.............................and failed to make the playoffs.

 

That is what a manager is judged on, not to mention the fact that he started this season very poorly both in planning and application.

 

Adkins has came in and tried to change the mentality of the players, as long as he gets us promoted i couldn't give a flying f*ck what his win ratio is. You have to perform at the crunch. After all England had a blinding Win Ratio in the Qualifiers and bottled it at the World Cup, much like we bottled the playoff run in.

 

My school report on Pardew ? Based only on last year ?

 

B - Alan made good progression and a good attempt to complete his Exams to an acceptable level. However he seemed to lose focus towards exam time and allowed after school achievements get in the way of solid results.

 

 

 

 

Also, another note on the Win Ratio b*llocks. I expect that Liverpool have had very good win ratios since the beginning of the Premier league, however they have never actually won it, and so to me, thats not good enough. Unless teams are judged on win ratios these days ?

Edited 29 September, 2010 by Smirking_Saint

[doddisalegend]

Win Ratios mean absolutely nothing to me if they are used on their own to try and force an opinion, which is what you are trying to do, thats the point i was making.

 

Just saying Mr X has a wi ratio of 65% and Mr Y has a win ratio of 59% means the square root of f*ck all unless you use it in conjunction with other factors.

 

We spent best part of 6 Million, plus whatever the Loans cost us. Our wage bill is probably one of the highest in league and probably a good amount of Championship. We had easily the best squad last year, we put together a good winning run, kept the whole team fit.............................and failed to make the playoffs.

That is what a manager is judged on, not to mention the fact that he started this season very poorly both in planning and application.

 

Adkins has came in and tried to change the mentality of the players, as long as he gets us promoted i couldn't give a flying f*ck what his win ratio is. You have to perform at the crunch. After all England had a blinding Win Ratio in the Qualifiers and bottled it at the World Cup, much like we bottled the playoff run in.

 

My school report on Pardew ? Based only on last year ?

 

B - Alan made good progression and a good attempt to complete his Exams to an acceptable level. However he seemed to lose focus towards exam time and allowed after school achievements get in the way of solid results.

 

 

 

 

Also, another note on the Win Ratio b*llocks. I expect that Liverpool have had very good win ratios since the beginning of the Premier league, however they have never actually won it, and so to me, thats not good enough. Unless teams are judged on win ratios these days ?

 

Its the same squad though so by the end of the year we should expect the same win ratio at least from Nigel should we not? We can't judge yet but at the end of the season we should be at least where we were at the end of last season (at least 5th without the -10pts) anything less is a big fail.

[Smirking_Saint]

Its the same squad though so by the end of the year we should expect the same win ratio at least from Nigel should we not? We can't judge yet but at the end of the season we should be at least where we were at the end of last season (at least 5th without the -10pts) anything less is a big fail.

 

I do, for once, Doddis. Completely agree, Adkins needs to atleast take us to the playoffs now, at least, or else it is a failure, i am not on about win ratio btw, but end result.

 

He has a lot of habit changing however, and needs to re-envigorate a squad that has taken too many knocks.