The british disease

[docker-p]

I don't agree with a lot that is written on here about cortese or saints in general,IMO 99% of it is codwash but do you really think that cortese takes any notice of the crap that is written on this site,do you think he would really make any rash decisions because some anonymous knobhead spews a bit of bile from behind a computer screen?

I really can't see that happening.....let's say there are maybe 4k registered users on here most are positive,some think they are itk, you could probably count on one hand the users who are basically grave dancers,the ones who would like to see the club implode.

Do you honestly think that cortese is looking over his shoulder because of half a dozen knobheads with an extreme opinion.....I don't think so.

 

This forum is good but it's not that good,IMO it doesn't represent a true cross section of the saints fanbase.....Jeez,some of you should get out more.

While I agree with the basic part of your thread about NC not making decisions based on what posters say on fans forum, i do have a problem with the idea there are a number of posters who want to see the club implode.

I don't think there is a single regular poster on this site who doesn't have the best interests of the club at heart. Even the ones I think nearly always talk nonsense. And your assumption that there are is one of the downsides to this forum. Everyone will have differing views about who the manager should be, who the owner should be, who the CEO should be and what these respective people should be doing. But to suggest that anyone who might hold a contrary view to the majority has either an agenda (something often mentioned by other posters) or wants anything but the best for the club I think is nonesense.

[100%Red&White]

Sorry to be so downbeat but I have never been so depressed in our club. Even during the dark days of Lowe I still felt it was my club and worth fighting for.It now seems like I am only as good as the money I have to spend.

 

A nice couple of wins over the next week - including one against our friends from along the coast in front of a big SMS crowd - and we'll all be back on track.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In an ideal world, of course.

[SaintRichmond]

@SaintRichmond:

 

Please STOP capitalising RANDOM words IN your posts until YOU have WORKED out HOW to do IT properly. IT'S annoying. THAT is ALL.

 

why ?

[scotty]

If the cap fits. We (British) people do not like dictators.

 

we elected thatcher. Twice.

[SaintRichmond]

Yet another pointless, over-emotional, attention seeking thread, exactly what this forum needs!

 

And yet another well reasoned rational Response to the thread

[John B]

Us British are World Champions at ONE thing

 

Getting a Good thing and Ripping it to shreds

 

We now have a wave of Kr*p doing the rounds about Southampton Football Club, and Nicola Cortese in particular

 

May I respectfully remind everyone of something ??

 

Friday 20th August 2010. Statement From Nicola Cortese, posted on the OS, and copied elsewhere

 

READ IT, and then READ IT AGAIN

 

Does it not convey the message that things WILL continue as before, in line with Wishes of Markus Leibherr ?????

 

My message to everybody is very simple

 

If you want what we now have to be destroyed, then just carry on with all the stupid Speculation, because over a period of time, that is EXACTLY what you will achieve

 

I Believed Markus Leibherr

 

I Believe Nicola Cortese

 

I Believe in Southampton Football Club

 

DON'T RUIN IT WITH THE BRITISN DISEASE

 

Whats particulary good about Southampton at the moment

 

Well liked Billionaire Owner passed away suddenly

 

In the relegation zone no goals in four games out of the JPT and League Cup

 

Old Manager sacked after 4 0 win

 

Injuries to the better players

 

Chairman who has upset the National Press Fans with parking charges ticket taxes and no installment facilities

 

If things improve people will be happier but at the present I think you have to be realistic things could be a lot better

[SaintRichmond]

Whats particulary good about Southampton at the moment

 

Well liked Billionaire Owner passed away suddenly

 

In the relegation zone no goals in four games out of the JPT and League Cup

 

Old Manager sacked after 4 0 win

 

Injuries to the better players

 

Chairman who has upset the National Press Fans with parking charges ticket taxes and no installment facilities

 

If things improve people will be happier but at the present I think you have to be realistic things could be a lot better

 

Of course they could be a lot better

 

But they could also be a Great Deal Worse if The Leibherrs walk

[John B]

Of course they could be a lot better

 

But they could also be a Great Deal Worse if The Leibherrs walk

 

Who knows but I dont think it would be a disaster if Cortese left as we dont really know how much money the Liebherrs are going to invest it has always been assumed that loads would be invested but has it I dont know

 

 

 

By the way I dont see anything which suggests that the club is going to be sold

[SaintRichmond]

Who knows but I dont think it would be a disaster if Cortese left as we dont really know how much money the Liebherrs are going to invest it has always been assumed that loads would be invested but has it I dont know

 

By the way I dont see anything which suggests that the club is going to be sold

 

We all hope not

 

My point of view is this

 

Many have said that Leibherr/Cortese do not take any notice of Forums such as this, but, I am sure that the Forum is monitored on behalf of the Club

 

At the time of Markus's passing, Our Club and Our Supporters showed exactly how much we had thought of him in his short time with us, and it was stated by Cortese that the Leibherr's had been deeply moved by our response to their Father's death

 

OK, now if they were aware of that, then, at a different level, they will equally be aware of the gossip/unrest/rumour/speculation that has appeared on here. It is that side of things that I am not happy about

 

Cortese keeps things very much close to his chest. He does not issue up to date statements every day of the week. It is THAT apparent "silence" that is against the British psyche

 

Rightly or wrongly, in the UK, we are used to being "briefed" regularly, Well, it aint gonna happen with our present owners.That is not how they do things

 

It doesn't bother me, but to some, if there is silence for 24 hours, then something must be afoot, and out come to 1000 rumours etc

 

What SHOULD be foremost in everybody's mind is Saturday, Hillsboro, 3pm

 

COYR

[harwellsaint]

well said mate, to many fans, not supporters cant wait to sit in front of their screens to start spouting doom and gloom because we dont do to well for a while, things can only improve at our club ffs stop trying to **** all over anything that our club do, if you want a voice attend the games then you have a reason to vote, most saints fans just want us to be at our club watching good footy, the rest will take care of itself, thanks nc and up the saints

Us British are World Champions at ONE thing

 

Getting a Good thing and Ripping it to shreds

 

We now have a wave of Kr*p doing the rounds about Southampton Football Club, and Nicola Cortese in particular

 

May I respectfully remind everyone of something ??

 

Friday 20th August 2010. Statement From Nicola Cortese, posted on the OS, and copied elsewhere

 

READ IT, and then READ IT AGAIN

 

Does it not convey the message that things WILL continue as before, in line with Wishes of Markus Leibherr ?????

 

My message to everybody is very simple

 

If you want what we now have to be destroyed, then just carry on with all the stupid Speculation, because over a period of time, that is EXACTLY what you will achieve

 

I Believed Markus Leibherr

 

I Believe Nicola Cortese

 

I Believe in Southampton Football Club

 

DON'T RUIN IT WITH THE BRITISN DISEASE

[Joensuu]

Who knows but I dont think it would be a disaster if Cortese left as we dont really know how much money the Liebherrs are going to invest it has always been assumed that loads would be invested but has it I dont know

 

Whether one further penny is invested by the Leibherrs or not, doesn't really matter, the financial stability of having a backer is more than enough for me.

 

 

Lets put it a different way, if you asked the fans of all 92 league clubs whether they would swap their current board/owner for ours I wonder how many of them would jump at the chance?

 

 

 

[My guess is that around 85 of them would bite your hand off, 2 or 3 would have to think about it, and only around 5 at most, would eventually turn you down. Does that help sum up why I feel loosing Cortese & the Leibherrs is very unlikely to make are situation better, but highly likely to be a backward step]

Edited 24 September, 2010 by Joensuu
clarity

[John B]

Whether a penny more or invested or not doesn't really matter, the financial stability of having a backer is more than enough for me.

 

Lets put it a different way, if you asked the fans of all 92 league clubs whether they would swap their current board/owner for ours I wonder how many of them would jump at the chance?

 

[My guess is that around 85 of them would bite your hand off, 2 or 3 would have to think about it, and only around 5 at most, would eventually turn you down. Does that help sum up why I feel loosing Cortese & the Leibherrs is very unlikely to make are situation better, but highly likely to be a backward step]

 

With all the bad press relating to Cortese I doubt whether you are right

 

At the moment in the relegation zone sacking Pardew Probably most think the board are pretty incompetant

[offix]

Us British are World Champions at ONE thing

 

Getting a Good thing and Ripping it to shreds

 

We now have a wave of Kr*p doing the rounds about Southampton Football Club, and Nicola Cortese in particular

 

May I respectfully remind everyone of something ??

 

Friday 20th August 2010. Statement From Nicola Cortese, posted on the OS, and copied elsewhere

 

READ IT, and then READ IT AGAIN

 

Does it not convey the message that things WILL continue as before, in line with Wishes of Markus Leibherr ?????

 

My message to everybody is very simple

 

If you want what we now have to be destroyed, then just carry on with all the stupid Speculation, because over a period of time, that is EXACTLY what you will achieve

 

I Believed Markus Leibherr

 

I Believe Nicola Cortese

 

I Believe in Southampton Football Club

 

DON'T RUIN IT WITH THE BRITISN DISEASE

 

Ditto

[Legod Third Coming]

Seriously, this is my contribution to the debate...

 

Get a grip.

 

Get a life.

 

This is a fecking football club.And not even a very good one.

[Deppo]

 

My point of view is this

 

Many have said that Leibherr/Cortese do not take any notice of Forums such as this, but, I am sure that the Forum is monitored on behalf of the Club

 

At the time of Markus's passing, Our Club and Our Supporters showed exactly how much we had thought of him in his short time with us, and it was stated by Cortese that the Leibherr's had been deeply moved by our response to their Father's death

 

 

What....you think he was talking about all the WIFM stuff and not the floral tributes and shirts left outside SMS?

[jam]

we elected thatcher. Twice.

 

Thrice.

[Stoozer]

If the cap fits. We (British) people do not like dictators.

The first rule of debate: if you compare someone to Hitler you've lost the argument. Silly, silly comment.

[sadoldgit]

Just ordered my ticket for the Bournemouth game online. Had to pay the £3 booking fee, not pleased about it. Do I still support Cortese? Absolutely. I just hope he doesn't read this forum.

 

I hope he does read this forum. No matter what he thinks, he needs to improve his PR and his relationship with the fan base. In order to do that he needs to understand the fan base, something he seems keen to avoid. Ok, we have have the supper charm offensive, but more direct and honest communication would not hurt with more than just a select few.

[aintforever]

The gripes people have had with Cortese are all pretty minor and hopefully his backing down over the photographer ban mistake shows he is learning and willing to change. There have been a few things like the non-communication over installments and the bad mouthing of club legends that have just been retarded decisions but we should be big enough to accept them for what they were and move on - everyone makes mistakes.

 

PR is not important in the whole scheme of things, as long as the manager and players are happy working for Cortese - that is all that counts and we should be fully behind Cortese as long as that is the case.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Seriously, this is my contribution to the debate...

 

Get a grip.

 

Get a life.

 

This is a fecking football club. And not even a very good one.

 

I agree. Except with the last bit. It's my football club, therefore it matters not if it's not very good - it's still mine (and yours). Too many miss this point.

[The Sholing Shadow]

Dont normally post but Cortese is ok by me. Emotive stuff about unpleasant historical figures is plain daft. To succeed in a competitive league we need clear leadership. We've got clear direction now I think & I think that it must be obvious that, for example, Alan Pardew wasn't replaced on a whim but because the team manager role is absolutely crucial. Why do we have to be told everything? Are we entitled to know every little personal detail? I echo (sorry, bad choice of words) "Get a grip". This is a brilliant football club, get behind it and enjoy it.

[sadoldgit]

I agree with all that, but I would contend that FACTS are Reality, Rumours and Speculation are Not

 

If I get FACTS wrong then yes, perhaps I need a reality check, but not for reading what others put on here which are simply Rumour and Speculation, born simply from the fact that little info is issued from St Mary's these days

 

In the UK, we are good at stirring up the Sh*t when there are no real Facts or real News available

 

So perhaps if we were to be given the facts, for example the truth about Cortese's relationship with Pardew, then maybe we wouldn't spend so much time on conjecture?

[sadoldgit]

Dont normally post but Cortese is ok by me. Emotive stuff about unpleasant historical figures is plain daft. To succeed in a competitive league we need clear leadership. We've got clear direction now I think & I think that it must be obvious that, for example, Alan Pardew wasn't replaced on a whim but because the team manager role is absolutely crucial. Why do we have to be told everything? Are we entitled to know every little personal detail? I echo (sorry, bad choice of words) "Get a grip". This is a brilliant football club, get behind it and enjoy it.

 

No we don't need to know every little detail, but I think big details like the sacking of a manager are quite important, don't you? As for brilliant football club. We are in the relegation zone in the Third Division. I don't think that is brilliant and I would like to know why that is and what is going to be done about it. Silence doesn't cut it.

[Joensuu]

No we don't need to know every little detail, but I think big details like the sacking of a manager are quite important, don't you? As for brilliant football club. We are in the relegation zone in the Third Division. I don't think that is brilliant and I would like to know why that is and what is going to be done about it. Silence doesn't cut it.

 

We don't know every little detail, and I think big things like sacking a manager are important to keep private, as they are subject to UK Employment Law, don't you?

 

You only get to hear why a team & manager part company when one party or another leaks/reveals the reason. If the reason is positive (i.e 'move on to next challenge', 'spend more time with family' etc) then the manager might be inclined to let people know. If the reason is negative (e.g. performance, misconduct etc) it's not in the interests of the manager to reveal the reason. For employers, it is very difficult to provide any public reasons for a sacking. Clubs have to be very careful what they say, as even hinting could see them wind up in an expensive court case. Any professional employer will not reveal the reason any employee is dismissed: it's generally only the employee who can choose whether they want to provide any information. It is to Cortese's credit that we know so little; while Pardew's silence really doesn't do him any favours.

[sadoldgit]

We don't know every little detail, and I think big things like sacking a manager are important to keep private, as they are subject to UK Employment Law, don't you?

 

You only get to hear why a team & manager part company when one party or another leaks/reveals the reason. If the reason is positive (i.e 'move on to next challenge', 'spend more time with family' etc) then the manager might be inclined to let people know. If the reason is negative (e.g. performance, misconduct etc) it's not in the interests of the manager to reveal the reason. For employers, it is very difficult to provide any public reasons for a sacking. Clubs have to be very careful what they say, as even hinting could see them wind up in an expensive court case. Any professional employer will not reveal the reason any employee is dismissed: it's generally only the employee who can choose whether they want to provide any information. It is to Cortese's credit that we know so little; while Pardew's silence really doesn't do him any favours.

 

Why doesn't Pardew's silence do him any favours? No doubt he has had to sign a "gagging order." If Cortese gets credit for keeping his mouth shut perhaps Pardew should do too?

 

What I am interested is not so much the reason for the sacking as you say, there are legal reasons for that, but the reason behind their falling out, if there was one. The sports pages are full of gossip about various managers and their CEO not getting on, bot not a word about Cortese and Pardew. Cortese employed Pardew so must have rated him at the start. His obvious lack of public support later though showed that something was very amiss.

[Joensuu]

Why doesn't Pardew's silence do him any favours? No doubt he has had to sign a "gagging order." If Cortese gets credit for keeping his mouth shut perhaps Pardew should do too?

It doesn't necessarily mean that keeping quite does him any harm, just that it does him no favours. Any sacked manager has an element of 'doubt' surrounding them, they can choose to try and explain the reasons behind the sacking, and see the 'doubt' in their abilities start to evaporate, or they can remain silent.

 

Of course, you may be right, there might be a NDA stopping Pardew from speaking. I doubt we will ever know. But whether there is an NDA in play or not, the silence (enforced or otherwise) is not doing Pardew any favours.

 

What I am interested is not so much the reason for the sacking as you say, there are legal reasons for that, but the reason behind their falling out, if there was one. The sports pages are full of gossip about various managers and their CEO not getting on, bot not a word about Cortese and Pardew. Cortese employed Pardew so must have rated him at the start. His obvious lack of public support later though showed that something was very amiss.

 

As you say 'if there was one'. I didn't see any obvious lack of public support, when asked by the Beeb, last March or so, Cortese was accurate with his wording, saying we 'needed to improve' our league results. Why should he pretend to be happy? Why not be honest? As the falling out was only a rumour, and as there were rumours to the contrary (that Markus disliked Pardew's playing style, but Cortese convinced him to keep Pardew), it think it's fair to say that we don't know whether there was a falling out in the first place. All we know is that for some reason Pardew was removed, the haste with this this was done, the fact no replacement was lined up, the fact that it followed a 4 goal win, all suggest to me that something serious, and unexpected occurred, which Cortese had to react to. Evidence for a split, prior to the August Bank Holiday, is insubstantial.

[Professor]

.............. All we know is that for some reason Pardew was removed, the haste with this this was done, the fact no replacement was lined up, the fact that it followed a 4 goal win, all suggest to me that something serious, and unexpected occurred, which Cortese had to react to. Evidence for a split, prior to the August Bank Holiday, is insubstantial.

If criticism on this message board was likely to make the Leibherrs and/or Cortese decide to sell up, so be it. If people owning or running a football club can't take criticism they shouldn't be in the business. As for why Cortese is doubted by many people, despite all the good he has done, are the things that many people think he has done badly but the dismissal of Pardew is obviously the biggest issue.

 

Joensuu's post above shows why there is doubt. There may well have been justifiable reasons to replace Pardew on performance grounds but having kept him on the timing of his removal made no sense, hence the speculation such as above. The rumours about applications for the WHU or Villa jobs don't make sense as grounds for sacking, after all, S****horpe would not have sacked Adkins if he had decided against coming to Saints after having applied.

 

But the fact is that the Press Release (and it was a press release by the club, not a statement by the press) gave reasons for the removal that did not make sense and so were not believed. That has left Cortese open to accusations of either bad judgement, bad timing or dishonesty. Not all three maybe, but one of them depending on what the truth really was. Fans are perfectly entitled to debate that and one thing that is BRITISH is the principle of Free Speech!

[sadoldgit]

It doesn't necessarily mean that keeping quite does him any harm, just that it does him no favours. Any sacked manager has an element of 'doubt' surrounding them, they can choose to try and explain the reasons behind the sacking, and see the 'doubt' in their abilities start to evaporate, or they can remain silent.

 

Of course, you may be right, there might be a NDA stopping Pardew from speaking. I doubt we will ever know. But whether there is an NDA in play or not, the silence (enforced or otherwise) is not doing Pardew any favours.

 

 

 

As you say 'if there was one'. I didn't see any obvious lack of public support, when asked by the Beeb, last March or so, Cortese was accurate with his wording, saying we 'needed to improve' our league results. Why should he pretend to be happy? Why not be honest? As the falling out was only a rumour, and as there were rumours to the contrary (that Markus disliked Pardew's playing style, but Cortese convinced him to keep Pardew), it think it's fair to say that we don't know whether there was a falling out in the first place. All we know is that for some reason Pardew was removed, the haste with this this was done, the fact no replacement was lined up, the fact that it followed a 4 goal win, all suggest to me that something serious, and unexpected occurred, which Cortese had to react to. Evidence for a split, prior to the August Bank Holiday, is insubstantial.

 

Pradew has either signed something saying that he will not speak about the sacking (which is most likely) or out of dignity he has kept his mouth shout. There are two sides to every story. Cortese will have his as will Pardew. To draw an inferrence that Pardew must be guilty because he hasn't said anything is your own choice.