Another false dawn?

[Lets B Avenue]

 

Everton next for the drop? After Saints fell from grace they are the next longest serving top flight club so obviously their time for the big fall.

 

What about your "real true love" then?

 

think you will find it's Spuds, HTH

 

Dosen't really H when you are wrong also.

 

Arsenal in top flight since 1919. Everton 1954. Spurs 1978 (came up with us).

 

Now if CW is to believed, I cant wait to see Mr Whinger getting on with referees in the Championship. But then again, he also told us he wouldn't post on here any more. That didn't last long.

[GenevaSaint]

I think Markus Liebherr's death changed things more than most of us care to admit. It looks as though the money has gone - that the Liebherrs funding of the club has more or less stopped. And that is the simple reason why we failed to strengthen the team in the summer - everybody - players, manager and supporters - new the team needed strengthening but the money to do it disappeared with Markus.

 

Rebel, only issue with the above paragraph is that "planning" for transfers would or have at least should have been taking place before Markus passed away. And if Markus knew he was on borrowed time then I would be of the opinion he would have put away a nest egg for us given his love for the club.

 

Anyway, if the funding has dried up so be it. If it has there really ought to be a statement of intent. I.E. We're now self funding as this was always the ultimate aim. At least we'll all know where we stand.

 

Regardless of all of the above, so he it, Southampton FC are still in business due to the Liebherr family. We still have a club. We can still turn up every week and support the sash. If we're destined to make it back to the NPC in 2 or 3 season so what. The premier league is not the be all and end all.

[Window Cleaner]

Do you really believe that the team has progressed Nick? We seem to have completely lost the knack of putting the ball in the back of the net which could come back next week, but may not come back for ages. The players we needed to progress have not (for whatever reason) arrived yet. Without them I don't think we will achieve what we achieved last season, which would of course be regression. It could all come right starting against SW but even if we win we still need at least two more quality players to keep any kind of momentum going I think.

 

I was looking at some European goals on TV earlier today,what struck me was the instinctive precision which a lot of the scorers possess,split second,first time half volleys curled inside posts,running on to a through ball and just slotting it past the keeper from 18 yards out without seeming to look up....we need one of those instinctive strikers sharpish cos Lambert has lost it and Barnard for all his huff and puff isn't effiicient enough, Antonio had the sort of class we need (but there was still a lot of waste attached to it as well).

[Clifford Nelson]

Logic tells us that non of this should be true Duncan, but there is no smoke without fire, as they say.Why bring in a new manager, why indeed sack the old manager, if you are lining up the club to be sold.Anyway, i'll never forget when, at my place of work, they completely gutted the old ,ladies toilet block, replaced it with a brand new washroom, then closed the place and made everyone redundant two weeks later.Logic hey.

 

These things happens, but what would make me very surprised in case of a sale is the value of the club. A third division club isn't worth that much, not even an ex PL club with a good stadium. When we've had our promotion back up to the PL, then this club would be worth a lot, even if it had a modicum of debt.

 

I actually think that NC has set himself a business goal, which is to reach the PL with Saints, and that anything else would count as a failure. The only sale I can imagine is one engineered by him, and one which keeps him in place. That would certainly not be a leveraged buy out.

 

All this speculation, though, wouldn't take place to the same degree if there were some better communication going on. So far much of it has been of the type 'trust me, I'll see you right', but in such a paranoid world as football is, and maybe especially in our experience at Saints, it doesn't go far enough. This could be improved, but neither that, nor any other comments I have made in the past means that I don't support the chairman.

[Teddy Nutkins]

These things happens, but what would make me very surprised in case of a sale is the value of the club. A third division club isn't worth that much, not even an ex PL club with a good stadium. When we've had our promotion back up to the PL, then this club would be worth a lot, even if it had a modicum of debt.

 

I actually think that NC has set himself a business goal, which is to reach the PL with Saints, and that anything else would count as a failure. The only sale I can imagine is one engineered by him, and one which keeps him in place. That would certainly not be a leveraged buy out.

 

All this speculation, though, wouldn't take place to the same degree if there were some better communication going on. So far much of it has been of the type 'trust me, I'll see you right', but in such a paranoid world as football is, and maybe especially in our experience at Saints, it doesn't go far enough. This could be improved, but neither that, nor any other comments I have made in the past means that I don't support the chairman.

 

You may well have something there,. I am sure the chairman via his job history is capable of finding another Markus, who may trust the chairman as Markus did, to spend his money for the ultimate prize, Premier League.

I am more than happy to ride with NC as the driving force, but i fear more upheaval with regards another owner, could do even more damage than good..............

[Bucks Saint]

I was looking at some European goals on TV earlier today,what struck me was the instinctive precision which a lot of the scorers possess,split second,first time half volleys curled inside posts,running on to a through ball and just slotting it past the keeper from 18 yards out without seeming to look up....we need one of those instinctive strikers sharpish cos Lambert has lost it and Barnard for all his huff and puff isn't effiicient enough, Antonio had the sort of class we need (but there was still a lot of waste attached to it as well).

 

Sounds great, would love to have a few of them. I think NC can find them at Premiership clubs

[shurlock]

I'll believe when I see it on the OS.

 

The club has been so economical and measured in its public statements -and to date it has never contradicted them- that I genuinely believe it lives and dies by them. Nothing is said lightly or for rhetorical show. I treat the assurances given after Liebherr's passing in this light. It is usually the man who is insecure and has something to hide who talks too much. The willingness to do what you say more than justifies the minimal disclosure and in fact often accompanies it.

[Window Cleaner]

Sounds great, would love to have a few of them. I think NC can find them at Premiership clubs

 

not all of them though,a couple were in French and German lower leagues, mind you most of our fans would have issues with their "work rate" I guess.Still as we seem to be baulking at sums of around 500K (wasn't that what Reading wanted for Antonio?) I suppose most of them would be out of our price range.

[Victor]

Possibly the stupidest post ever

 

You clearly didn't get my point. Once we were something special so we expected things to be good. Now we are just another club, hiring and firing at will in a desperate search for some magic formula that will get us to the Premiership. Clubs from the 'outposts' of football have their time when a particular set of circumstances come together. Blackpool are having their time in the sun again but, sadly, it won't last. There is nothing special about us any more, we are out there fighting with the majority of the 92 clubs. Nothing special about starting slowly, nothing special about changing managers, nothing special about our squad.

 

Stupid? Stop gazing at your navel and get real. We are ordinary- and at the moment plain dull. Get used to it; it is the lot of the majority I'm afraid.

[yorkiesaint]

Perhaps Cortese is just looking for extra finance. this seems to me more likely than selling up lock stock.

[once_bitterne]

The point most people seem to be missing is that the money had 'dried up' before Markus passed away. Last Summer and last Janaury window we spent large amounts to bring in the likes of Lambert, Fonte, Barnard, etc and it seemed obvious that ML was funding us to run at a loss in order to gain promotion.

 

However, something had definately changed by the end of the season. We let go a HUGE amount of players who were out of contract (which is the reason why we are now forced to name Pulis on the bench), failed to re-new the loans or transfer Papa or Antonio and only brought in 3 full-backs only onw of whom comanded a transfer fee.

 

It's nothing to do with money being held in probate or things like that, the question that needs to be asked is what is the reason for this change? It can only be one of two things, either Markus (and now his family) decided to put no more money into the club and it would have to generate it's own money to spend, or that Cortese is being pig headed and trying to acheive his goals without having to go cap in hand to Markus (or now the Liebherr's) and ask for handouts.

[derry]

Derry, I first heard this story about 2 months ago and it originated from an ex-player with good local connections and no political axe (ie not MLT, Franny etc). This was some weeks before Markus's sad passing. I really did not believe it although I suppose football clubs are always "for sale" (for the right price). However over the last week the rumour keeps coming back to me from other unconnected sources. I really do not want to believe it because being owned by the Liebherrs (and certainly while Markus was alive) you could ask for no better owners but perhaps things have now changed? Nicola could have lost his ambition as his friend is no longer alive and perhaps he hankers after returning to his pre-Saints way of life. I really do not know! If and it is a big if, there is a desire to sell let's hope they are selective to whom they sell. There are a lot of sharks out there and precious few good guys.

 

Thanks Duncan. It does seem to be doing the rounds including the UI. I think along the same lines as yourself, Canada, Teddy and Clifford. However as Colin implied logic isn't much use in football.

 

I'm relaxed about NC, happy about the owners, pleased that Pardew is no more and look forward to the sort of football Nigel Adkins believes in. I think he is one of the very best outside the Premier.

[The Kraken]

However, something had definately changed by the end of the season. We let go a HUGE amount of players who were out of contract (which is the reason why we are now forced to name Pulis on the bench), failed to re-new the loans or transfer Papa or Antonio and only brought in 3 full-backs only one of whom comanded a transfer fee.

 

Am I missing something here, as I've seen this posted more than once.

 

Frazer Richardson: "On 6 July 2010, Richardson signed for League One club Southampton for an undisclosed fee, in a deal reportedly worth £450,000."

 

Ryan Dickson: "On 10 June 2010, it was reported that Dickson had signed a deal to join League One rivals Southampton, with the transfer fee to be agreed at a tribunal. At the tribunal, the fee was set at £125,000 with a further £25,000 for every 10 appearances Dickson makes for Southampton on 10, 20, 30 and 40 appearances. There will also be £25,000 due if Southampton win promotion within three years together with a 20 percent sell-on clause.

 

Danny Butterfield: Free transfer

[andybeal]

At the tribunal, the fee was set at £125,000 with a further £25,000 for every 10 appearances Dickson makes for Southampton on 10, 20, 30 and 40 appearances

 

Kind of explains why dickson doesn't get in the team then!

[John B]

I cannot disagree with anything you are saying but I am rather concerned about the Academy

 

As a League 1 club are we getting the best youngsters in as results this season for the U18s are not good

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/AcademyFixtures/

 

I think the priority is to get out of League 1 as soon as possible and to sort out the Academy later

[Clifford Nelson]

I'll believe when I see it on the OS.

 

The club has been so economical and measured in its public statements -and to date it has never contradicted them- that I genuinely believe it lives and dies by them. Nothing is said lightly or for rhetorical show. I treat the assurances given after Liebherr's passing in this light. It is usually the man who is insecure and has something to hide who talks too much. The willingness to do what you say more than justifies the minimal disclosure and in fact often accompanies it.

 

I think you're spot on. NC has always acted in accordance with what has been said, so there ought not to be this nervousness around. But it is, because we have had a lot to be nervous about over the years, lots of underhandedness, lots of large plans, and little or nothing to back it up with. It leaves it's traces which I think we can see often here on the forum. And because we are getting information from the club comparatively seldom, and mostly only on major occasions, it leave large blanks. Any psychologist will tell you what people do with blanks. They fill them in! In our case, not surprisingly with more of what our experiences have taught us is likely to come our way.

 

We're not cured yet, but probably need the whole of he five year plan behind us before we believe that there are roses also in the blanks

[Clifford Nelson]

Thanks Duncan. It does seem to be doing the rounds including the UI. I think along the same lines as yourself, Canada, Teddy and Clifford. However as Colin implied logic isn't much use in football.

 

I'm relaxed about NC, happy about the owners, pleased that Pardew is no more and look forward to the sort of football Nigel Adkins believes in. I think he is one of the very best outside the Premier.

 

Every time I hear Adkins I get more and more impressed. A positive person who isn't a bull****ter. They are rare. He doesn't seem at all desperate for new signings, judging from todays interview on the Saints player, so maybe the rest of us can relax, sit back and let him, the team and NC do the work. A really competitive, football playing team come the end of the season and I will be happy. I might even be slightly surprised if we don't reach the play-offs.

[CanadaSaint]

Every time I hear Adkins I get more and more impressed. A positive person who isn't a bull****ter. They are rare. He doesn't seem at all desperate for new signings, judging from todays interview on the Saints player, so maybe the rest of us can relax, sit back and let him, the team and NC do the work. A really competitive, football playing team come the end of the season and I will be happy. I might even be slightly surprised if we don't reach the play-offs.

 

Exactly. I very much suspect that he's not desperate for signings because he knows that we have a cracking squad (for this division) and he fancies his chances of getting more out of it. I loved the fact that he changed our left side on Saturday not because we had bad players there but because they weren't playing how he wants and expects them to play. That one, simple message (I'll pull you off PDQ if you don't stay with the plan) will go through a squad like a dose of salts.

 

There's nothing wrong here that won't be fixed by a few wins, crowds back above 20,000, and - especially for Cortese - a chorus of "There's only one Nigel Adkins" from the Northam!

 

And then we're back on a five year plan that made sense fourteen months ago and still makes sense now.

[S-Clarke]

Every time I hear Adkins I get more and more impressed. A positive person who isn't a bull****ter. They are rare. He doesn't seem at all desperate for new signings, judging from todays interview on the Saints player, so maybe the rest of us can relax, sit back and let him, the team and NC do the work. A really competitive, football playing team come the end of the season and I will be happy. I might even be slightly surprised if we don't reach the play-offs.

 

Agree with you, he's so bright and aware and is a breath of fresh air in the world of management if im honest.

 

I doubt he's really active on the player recruitment front, i don't think it's right that he is anyway - he needs to learn the players he has before he adds more to it, then he can learn and understand the weaknesses better (and get more out of the players we have). In a way, isn't it good that we haven't seen signings yet.. as it suggests to me that they'll be decided by Adkins and when he wants them. Not by anyone else.

 

And also i think the playoffs are a certainty, if we can get on a run the auto's are still not out of reach but time is running out.

[Clifford Nelson]

Agree with you, he's so bright and aware and is a breath of fresh air in the world of management if im honest.

 

I doubt he's really active on the player recruitment front, i don't think it's right that he is anyway - he needs to learn the players he has before he adds more to it, then he can learn and understand the weaknesses better (and get more out of the players we have). In a way, isn't it good that we haven't seen signings yet.. as it suggests to me that they'll be decided by Adkins and when he wants them. Not by anyone else.

 

And also i think the playoffs are a certainty, if we can get on a run the auto's are still not out of reach but time is running out.

 

I'd be delighted if you're right. At the moment I'm setting my ambition to him having created a really competitive team which doesn't go losing to Tranmere when it really matters. I can put up with losing against the top sides, they are good sides as well, and I can also accept a bananaskin if it is at least three years between them, but a properly prepared, tactically astute, well motivated team of superior players have no business losing some of the games we lost last year. That is an inconsistency which we need to lose if we are to advance towards the PL, and I expect it lost by the end of the season.

 

Let's not forget that NA has also said that there are those players who fall by the wayside. Under all that positive stuff there is a very determined person. I don't think he had Pulis in mind.

[The Kraken]

Every time I hear Adkins I get more and more impressed. A positive person who isn't a bull****ter. They are rare. He doesn't seem at all desperate for new signings, judging from todays interview on the Saints player, so maybe the rest of us can relax, sit back and let him, the team and NC do the work. A really competitive, football playing team come the end of the season and I will be happy. I might even be slightly surprised if we don't reach the play-offs.

 

So, let me get this right. In the summer there was almost common consensus that our squad was short of 3 players for a proper tilt at the title.

 

Since then we've lost Lallana, Lambert looks unfit, we know Barnard is being nursed through an injury, Connolly is injured, Martin is injured, Richardson is injured, Jaidi looks very old, and other players are out of form. And despite that, because Adkins is in charge, there's now no hurry to bring in new players?

 

Confused? You bet I am.

 

Sure, I unnderstand that Adkins has to work with what he's been given and get the squad to play to potential. But that doesn't detract from the fact that the squad is very light in some vital areas, and those areas need addressing asap IMO.

[sadoldgit]

LOL! No, 'old git' may be but not sad. 'Life is too short' as the saying does to get too run down by current events. After 50 plus years supporting Saints I do long for the 'good old days' of the 60's but they won't come back. I take every twist and turn of the Saints saga as it comes, usually with disappointment in recent years, but its only football after all and I have a lot of other interests. We move on, what will be will be, but I don't think it is time to take an overdose because of a few bad weeks; things may look up next week and you wouldn't want to miss that would you?

 

You are right Panda. I too think fondly back to the "good old days" but in truth we did get beaten a lot even with the greats like Davies and Paine playing. I think the reason I wrote the thread was because I felt very optimistic about the club this time last year but as the season wore on and it looked like there was a problem between the CEO and the manager the gloss started to fade a little. Then when Markus passed away and we lost yet another manager it seemed like we were just slipping back into Groundhog Day. A few wins and things will look better of course, but after all of the hope that was generated by the new management set up last year it is still hard to understand what has happened over the summer to date. But as you say, things may look up next week. Here's hoping!

[Weston Saint]

Any good Manager will assess his resourses, look at the opportunities and threaths, see if he can manage the weaknesses or nuturalise them and only then will he use finances to strengthen if required. He has not had enough time yet but just looking at what he did on Saturday suggests he will be a positive influence and a successful Manager for us.

[Red and White Army]

What do the small minority who think sacking Pardew for Adkins was a good idea would be defined as a success at the end of the season?

[Kingsbridge Saint]

If the Liebherr backing has gone then it certainly was a false dawn. We need a few wins soon or Adkins is out the revolving door too and we are headed for League 2.

[sandwichsaint]

What about your "real true love" then?

 

 

 

Dosen't really H when you are wrong also.

 

Arsenal in top flight since 1919. Everton 1954. Spurs 1978 (came up with us).

 

Now if CW is to believed, I cant wait to see Mr Whinger getting on with referees in the Championship. But then again, he also told us he wouldn't post on here any more. That didn't last long.

 

Don't think so .. in the context of the original post the poster referred to Everton 'as being the next longest serving club' which I took to be the one immediately above Saints on the 'longest serving' list and which I CORRECTLY identified as THFC... you have also missed Liverpool and Man U off your list of long-servers who both go above Spurs.

 

HTH

 

(if it doesn't bike sheds at 3.30 and my dad is massive).

[CanadaSaint]

What do the small minority who think sacking Pardew for Adkins was a good idea would be defined as a success at the end of the season?

 

Yeah, it was probably a minority but - after all the complaining about his tactics and substitutions, as well as the poor early season results - how do you know it was a small minority? To answer your question, I would expect him to deliver at least a playoff place and some attractive football in the process. I was far from convinced that AP would deliver either of those, especially the second.

 

If the Liebherr backing has gone then it certainly was a false dawn. We need a few wins soon or Adkins is out the revolving door too and we are headed for League 2.

 

No new loan signings = shifting the deckchairs around on the Titanic = Southampton nil. The season is a car wreck already.

 

We're not even out of September and we see this kind of hysterical overstatement. I don't know why you even bother.

[hypochondriac]

Worryingly my information had nothing to do with the UI rumour and was told to me on Tuesday morning. I would think Duncan's hint was from a similar source. I'm pretty sure that Cortese and the Liebherr family have been disappointed with the reaction regarding Pardew's demise. I hope though that it isn't true because we could be bought by chancers and placed heavily in debt to finance it. I am happy that Pardew is gone and whilst I think Cortese could have done several things differently I fully support him and like his integrity.

 

What reaction did they expect exactly? After the managerial upheval of the last few years they are pretty naieve if they expected anything other than disgust and anger.

[Weston Saint]

What do the small minority who think sacking Pardew for Adkins was a good idea would be defined as a success at the end of the season?

Is it a small minority?

[Freemantle Saint]

football is a business.

 

These people bought us on the cheap if they sell it ehey will make their money back

 

i hope they sell and f**k off..

look at afc wimbledon.....you cannot buy the soul of a club.

 

bye bye cortese....

[hypochondriac]

football is a business.

 

These people bought us on the cheap if they sell it ehey will make their money back

 

i hope they sell and f**k off..

look at afc wimbledon.....you cannot buy the soul of a club.

 

bye bye cortese....

 

Now to me that is a perfectly valid view and I can totally see why someone would think like that. I do feel a similar way but of course we can't know for sure what type of owner we would get (though I just have a feeling that Liebherr wouldn't sell to just anyone.)

 

Of course many on here will find your valid opinion offensive and will most likely get abusive or call you an idiot. Hopefully I will be pleasantly surprised but we will see.

[Red and White Army]

Is it a small minority?

 

Yep. The vast majority were happy with AP. As one of thE people who where not, what is the minimum Adkins needs to achieve?

[CanadaSaint]

Yep. The vast majority were happy with AP. As one of thE people who where not, what is the minimum Adkins needs to achieve?

 

I gave my answer to your question a few posts up, so now I have a couple of questions for you:

 

Given the amount of complaining about his tactics and substitutions, given the poor pre-season preparation, given the poor early season results, and given the fact that there may have been some circumstances that warranted decisive action:

 

How do you know that a "vast majority were happy with AP"?

 

How do you know that only a "small minority" though it was a good idea to sack him?

 

Do you have some objective data to back up those statements or are they really just your opinions?

[Doctoroncall]

What do the small minority who think sacking Pardew for Adkins was a good idea would be defined as a success at the end of the season?

 

When Pardew was appointed I wasn't particularly enamored with the choice (the way he handle the players at WHU and Charlton, and his tactics). However, I was certainly willing to support him going into this season as at that time there weren't any major issues - only a poor pre-season, and the chance to remove him was gone, so was shocked at the timing of his sacking. I'm glad he's gone, given we have a manager who better understands the game, gets the players to play better football and makes better use of the resources.

 

I still think promotion is possible, whether that's coming first, second or winning the play-offs I don't mind, afterall it's still September, we have a decent squad and a better manager.

[Topcat]

How do you know that a "vast majority were happy with AP"?

 

How do you know that only a "small minority" though it was a good idea to sack him?

 

Do you have some objective data to back up those statements or are they really just your opinions?

 

AP win % = 53.13%

Without AP the win ratio is 0%.

[Wade Garrett]

Worryingly my information had nothing to do with the UI rumour and was told to me on Tuesday morning. I would think Duncan's hint was from a similar source. I'm pretty sure that Cortese and the Liebherr family have been disappointed with the reaction regarding Pardew's demise. I hope though that it isn't true because we could be bought by chancers and placed heavily in debt to finance it. I am happy that Pardew is gone and whilst I think Cortese could have done several things differently I fully support him and like his integrity.

 

To be honest, I think all the ITK'ers in the new manager threads proved that they are not ITK at all.

 

I'm taking all this sale business with a pinch of salt. ITK'ers know f*ck all, they just like to think they do. The only source worth listening to is the one that we all get on the OS. The rest is just bullsh*t.

[Wes Tender]

football is a business.

 

These people bought us on the cheap if they sell it ehey will make their money back

 

i hope they sell and f**k off..

look at afc wimbledon.....you cannot buy the soul of a club.

 

bye bye cortese....

 

Well, I sincerely hope that Cortese is here for years and years. And if that annoys you to hell, then so much the better. Football IS a business and Cortese and Liebherr bought it as a business. Where do you get the impression that they thought they were buying the soul of the club? They stated right at the beginning that they realised they were only custodians of the club. If you're going to go off on a wind-up, at least do your research properly and then you might have more credibility.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Those days seemed more fun. The element of 'evangelical zeal' that is now required if you're to be considered a real fan didn't exist. You could wear a Saints scarf, own a season ticket, and happily 'boo' any poor performance, and look forward to next Saturday. Booing a lacklustre performance or questioning the CEO is now tantamount to high treason.

 

You missed out twirling your rattle and wearing a rosette with Terry Paine's photo in the middle! One isn't a real fan now unless you have the club crest tattooed on your todger and/or have 3500 posts on a forum.

[Wade Garrett]

football is a business.

 

These people bought us on the cheap if they sell it ehey will make their money back

 

i hope they sell and f**k off..

look at afc wimbledon.....you cannot buy the soul of a club.

 

bye bye cortese....

 

Now to me that is a perfectly valid view and I can totally see why someone would think like that. I do feel a similar way but of course we can't know for sure what type of owner we would get (though I just have a feeling that Liebherr wouldn't sell to just anyone.)

 

Of course many on here will find your valid opinion offensive and will most likely get abusive or call you an idiot. Hopefully I will be pleasantly surprised but we will see.

 

Hysterical rantings based on a few whispers from people on here who like to feel important.

[Wes Tender]

AP win % = 53.13%

Without AP the win ratio is 0%.

 

Most Saints fans are intelligent enough to think beyond those figures and dismiss them for what they are, but perhaps you are not. In fact they are the equivalent of having one burglary in an area last year and saying that because there had been two this year, crime had doubled in that area.

 

And it it totally disingenuous anyway to use those figures in an effort to back up a statement that the vast majority of fans were happy with AP or that it was only a minority who thought that it was a good idea to sack him. By doing so, you make at least two assumptions that you are not entitled to make; that you believe that the results since his departure would have been any different and that everybody knows the reasons for his sacking. Nobody can make those assumptions in the first case and only those who have the facts of his dismissal in the second case.

And as Pardew had over a year to achieve his win ration and didn't exactly get off to a flying start himself, I suggest that to give any credence to your figures that Adkins be allowed the same time span, in the interests of balance, you understand.

[Red and White Army]

I gave my answer to your question a few posts up, so now I have a couple of questions for you:

 

Given the amount of complaining about his tactics and substitutions, given the poor pre-season preparation, given the poor early season results, and given the fact that there may have been some circumstances that warranted decisive action:

 

How do you know that a "vast majority were happy with AP"?

 

How do you know that only a "small minority" though it was a good idea to sack him?

 

Do you have some objective data to back up those statements or are they really just your opinions?

 

How many people were calling for Pardews head after 3 or 4 games? Anyone? I remember Derry and Weston complaining about him in the close season but they were lone voices, not a majority

 

Tactics, formations, playerselecion and subs are all highly subjective and no manager will ever please everyone.

 

The vast majority of fans were behind pardew on Aug 29th which is why the sacking was a huge surprise.

[Foxstone]

football is a business.

 

These people bought us on the cheap if they sell it ehey will make their money back

 

i hope they sell and f**k off..

look at afc wimbledon.....you cannot buy the soul of a club.

 

bye bye cortese....

 

I am not going to disappoint Hypo on this one - You are an idiot !

 

Just remember that if it was'nt for Cortese persuading his wealthy and kindly friend that we were a good propostion, we would be consigned to the history books as one who bit the dust!

No Club, No Soul No Nothing !

[Topcat]

Most Saints fans are intelligent enough to think beyond those figures and dismiss them for what they are, but perhaps you are not.

Issuing an insult shows the weakness of your argument.

And it is totally disingenuous anyway to use those figures in an effort to back up a statement that the vast majority of fans were happy with AP or that it was only a minority who thought that it was a good idea to sack him.

I must have missed the protests against AP, the chants at SMS demanding AP to be sacked etc...? Not.

By doing so, you make at least two assumptions that you are not entitled to make; that you believe that the results since his departure would have been any different and that everybody knows the reasons for his sacking. Nobody can make those assumptions in the first case and only those who have the facts of his dismissal in the second case.

The facts are that AP had a very good win ratio record including his "slow start". Best for about 100 years as a Saints manager. The Club stated that he was dismissed to improve co-operation with Les Reed's department. Those are facts stated on the record. Dismissing a Mgr with one of the best win ratios in our 125 year history needs a lot more justification than "to improve co-operation".

And as Pardew had over a year to achieve his win ration and didn't exactly get off to a flying start himself, I suggest that to give any credence to your figures that Adkins be allowed the same time span, in the interests of balance, you understand.

Yes Adkins has to be given more time but since AP departed we have one of the worst runs of form in our 125 year history. We are less than 90 minutes from having the longest goal drought in our history. Those are all facts and pretending that these appalling records do not exist or are worse than Lowelife produced is trying to spin a fairy tale on behalf of Cortese.

 

I do believe we will score on Saturday and think that luck may fall our way agst Sheff Weds.

[trousers]

Issuing an insult shows the weakness of your argument.

 

It is possible to be correct and insulting at the same time.

 

For example: "The sun is hot, you idiot"

 

;-)

[Joensuu]

Now to me that is a perfectly valid view

Valid? How can telling our owner and CEO to get lost, in a rather crude and unsavory manner be 'valid'? If this poster is genuinely annoyed with the current management of the business, why don't they air their concerns, and use evidence to substantiate their argument? Oh, yeah, that's right, what evidence? Do you mean to say that screaming irrationally, without evidence to support your view is now 'valid'?

 

and I can totally see why someone would think like that. I do feel a similar way but of course we can't know for sure what type of owner we would get (though I just have a feeling that Liebherr wouldn't sell to just anyone.)

So you 'feel in a similar way' to someone who is telling them to 'f**k off', but still trust the Liebherr family to make a sensible choice over who they are going to sell to. So you dislike them (without reason), but trust them to make sensible business decisions? In which case, why not let them run the club?

 

Oh, and of course you could roll some dice again and bring in a new owner. However I think you'd need to roll 3 sixes to improve upon the Liebherr's: rich, private, respected, stabilising (what's not to like?).

 

(Oh and to head off the lack of spending over the summer nonsense, we spent almost 3/4 of a million, did any other team in our division better that? Why Pardew blew his budget on fullbacks, only he can answer. And the offloaded players, is anyone seriously arguing that these weren't, to the man, deadwood?)

 

Of course many on here will find your valid opinion offensive and will most likely get abusive or call you an idiot. Hopefully I will be pleasantly surprised but we will see.

I agree, I find this opinion offensive. I consider it a direct attempt to undermine my club. Of course I find it offensive.

 

But, please note, despite the irrational and unevinced nature of the post we are both responding to, despite it being an attempt to set Southampton FC back years, you will see no abuse or idiot calling from me.

[Topcat]

It is possible to be correct and insulting at the same time.

For example: "The sun is hot, you idiot"

;-)

Dismissing a fact that states that the record of Pardew with "one of the highest win ratios in our Club's 125 yr history" as something of little consequence and that instead we should look at other things such as Cortese's judgement or the importance of inter departmental co-operation, is the real insult to intelligence.

[Joensuu]

I must have missed the protests against AP, the chants at SMS demanding AP to be sacked etc...? Not.

Of course there were no protests. Almost everyone on here was in agreement at the end of last season, that Pardew was doing okay (not bad, not good). IMO he was a respectable 5/10. Not bad enough to protest against, still good enough for the support of the majority.

 

The facts are that AP had a very good win ratio record including his "slow start". Best for about 100 years as a Saints manager.

Yes that's all true, but I think it equally true to add that despite all this, more was expected of Pardew.

 

His win ratio needs to be assessed in the context of the division and the money we lavished on the team. On paper it looks mighty impressive, in reality it was only really 'acceptable'.

 

Do you agree that despite having a worse win ratio, that the FA cup run season under Strachan was a significantly better than last season? If you agree, you must have realised the weakness of win ratios.

 

Quite simply 50-60% wins is good in a normal context; with the expectations and money thrown at Pardew last season 70%+ was the aim.

 

The Club stated that he was dismissed to improve co-operation with Les Reed's department. Those are facts stated on the record.

 

Eh? I must have missed that. I was fairly sure no reason has been given. Hense why we are still actively debating the reason for the departure...

 

Anyhow, if you are right, then why the silence from AP? He would have nothing to hide.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Hysterical rantings based on a few whispers from people on here who like to feel important.

I don't always (or very often) agree with Hypochondriac but I can't for the life of me see how his post you quoted can be called hysterical.

Don't you think that's why this forum is in decline, that people slate a post because of who the poster is, not because of what was actually said?

At this rate there will be 5 of you left, repeating the same point of view ad nauseam.

[Weston Saint]

Yep. The vast majority were happy with AP. As one of thE people who where not, what is the minimum Adkins needs to achieve?

Width of play, players playing in their strongest positions, improved tactics, dead ball variety, ability to use the right subs at the right time and an ability to change tactics/formation (the much vaunted plan B) with a positive outcome. That is the minimum I would expect from any Manager employed by a progressive club.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

It is possible to be correct and insulting at the same time.

 

For example: "The sun is hot, you idiot"

 

;-)

 

I agree, you idiot. Another example. Just a joke! Smiley doo-dah.