Another false dawn?

[derry]

It has been a grim start to this years campaign. For what reasons is always open to debate. Was money available to strengthen, did Pardew lose interest, were the team less fit than last season, have the pre and early season injuries hit us harder that then should, is it the loss of pace? Probably a combination of all.

 

I would like to think that with a little time Adkins will get us back to what we were expecting this season and even if automatic promotion fades away I see us being one of the playoff teams and by then a force to be reckoned with. If so we will be back on track with the much vaunted business plan.

 

What are the alternatives for SFC if the Liebherr family sell up? I shudder to think but you can bet we would soon be a club in debt (new owner borrowing against the stadium and facilities) and very little money for players.

 

This is the Liebherr money and I am sure they appreciate they are custodians of the club and have not forgotten the supporters but are trying to establish a decent and balanced business model at a time when football finances is this country are a complete mess. It takes time, there will be issues along the way but we have to give them our support just as many supporters blindly support the club may be we should give Nicola Cortese a bit of space. We are only starting year two of five (or four as some suggest)

 

Ron, I get the feeling that they have had enough of the criticism.

[derry]

I hope and pray that NC IS having second thoughts as his plans and the way he has been running this club have not impressed me in the slightest. I suspect that there is a buyer out there who is more in tune with the fans and our expectations and aspirations. This club is now debt free and isn't a bad buy at the right price. Don't be surprised if the Leibher family sell in the not too distant future. I see no sign whatsoever of investment and I don't buy into the idea that the money is tied up because of the Liebher death. All I can see is an ongoing attempt to raise income from the fanbase (well documented on this site) and greatly reduce costs including player expenditure. It hardly smacks of a regime who have strong ambitions to take the club forward as per the original Cortese/Marcus Leibher plan. Watch this space.

 

We are prime candidates for a leveraged buyout by opportunists on borrowed money guaranteed against the assets. Before you know it, we will be £50m in debt.

[ericofarabia]

 

This is The REAL DAWN (French) .... and you bet your bottom dollar, those Fun Bags are the real thing as well

[Window Cleaner]

 

This is The REAL DAWN (French) .... and you bet your bottom dollar, those Fun Bags are the real thing as well

 

Fun bags??? More like bean bag chairs

[once_bitterne]

Someone has posted a rumour on the Ugly that the club is currently up for sale.

[John B]

Someone has posted a rumour on the Ugly that the club is currently up for sale.

 

How much for?

[once_bitterne]

How much for?

 

A loss making club in the third tier of English football? Not for much I would imagine. More finding someone willing to take it off their hands.

[St Marco]

1 year in and we won a cup. Can't remember how many years Lowe was here but he came in while we were in the PL. he didn't get us there. Markus,Cortese etc.. have a totally different challenge. One that is not easy. Look at teams like Leeds/Forrest etc.. it took them ages to get out of this league.

 

As for being for sale.

 

A club with a 36k stadium, uefa 4 grade if i remember right?

An area with a shead load of potential fans

Rich history having been around 125 years

No debt

etc etc

 

This time around if that was true we would have no trouble finding a buyer at all.

[stthrobber]

A few years ago the perception was that Lowe had to go if the club was to progress.

 

He did go and enter the Wilde Bunch to even wilder acclaim. Wilde was a fan so that was good apparently. He then spent a lot of money on what was perceived as a sh*t or bust exercise and guess what, he busted.

 

 

You could have posted a lot less of the previous history to make your point but I don't agree with you regarding the false dawn bit anway Bern.

 

We are where we are because the team was not properly prepared by the previous manager for the season ahead, and because he failed to address areas where the team is weak.

 

Cortese made the decision to get rid, we accept he had no option or we don't, but Adkins is in a much better position than many other managers in our division and above. He can bring in loan players to fill the gaps, he shouldn't have needed to do this, the players should have been there from the off.

 

Cortese is no mug and he realises that we need stability and if the manager is sacked once again at the end of the season, then that will severely dent our chance of attracting coaches of the required standard.

 

Money can only buy a certain amount of things, but money doesn't blend a team and money doesn't choose the tactics employed.

 

I worry that the Pardew business will cost us automatic promotion this season, and if that's the case that I won't blame Adkins, but I also think it's far too early for the "false dawn" argument

[mcjwills]

Same Crap different Thread

[CanadaSaint]

Someone has posted a rumour on the Ugly that the club is currently up for sale.

 

This doesn't make sense to me.

 

If this was in his mind, why fire Pardew rather than leave him in place as a "big name" manager?

 

Who in the family would agree to cast Markus's wishes aside?

 

Why would Cortese bother with the meeting with invited season ticket holders?

 

And more.

[Charlie Wayman]

Man C with all their wealth cannot get their act together so what chance Saints succeeding on very much less money. Not very good as is being proved right now. In a way it is good that money doesn't guarantee success.

 

Everton next for the drop? After Saints fell from grace they are the next longest serving top flight club so obviously their time for the big fall.

[hoozonside10]

Have you heard what I've heard?

 

Not again - Please refrain from making "In the know/Look at me" comments on a public forum. Use PM or go round his house to talk about it, but don't print it here for all to see. It is, at best, tedious.

[Victor]

It was all going so well until we left the Dell. Then there was an air of excitement as you approached the ground, anticipation of some exciting, attacking football with players who were characters and who actually wanted to play for the club, a feeling that we and our ground were unique and an expectancy that we would beat whoever the opposition was - Man Ure preferably. And switch on Match of The Day to see us beat them all over again.

 

Now it's an air of despondency as we approach the off-the-peg shed to watch off-the-peg football from journeymen players and certainly can't be arsed to watch the humiliation again at some God-forsaken dog-end of the television schedules.

 

And I actually believe it was easier to get a ticket in those days; and it probably won't be any easier when we are down to 9.000 crowds in League 2 (as they laughingly call it).

 

Guess we just had ideas above our station.

[ottery st mary]

Someone has posted a rumour on the Ugly that the club is currently up for sale.

 

 

Have heard that the following peeps are in the running to purchase the mighty Saints...

 

 

Mr Jackson:lol:

 

Mr Loyd:lol:

 

Mr Fialka:lol:

 

 

These guys are big players and we will be in safe hands for years to come...

 

 

WIFM

[John Smith]

You know what, I wouldn't blame the Liebherr family members for selling up. If this forum is a representation of our fanbase, I'd leave as well. It's quite disgusting how people act and speak of people on here. How spoilt so many are and have very little value of money. How so many claim to speak for me or on behalf of Saints fans and don;t actually turn up on a Saturday. If I was the Liebherr family and I did a search on our club and found this site, read some of the posts, I think I'd be in tears, tthinking about why Markus bothered to invest his money into such ungrateful, snivveling wrethces of the human race.

 

This game used to be for the working class, people who were supposed to have values and when we were looking for buyers, many on here wanted the debt gone but didn;t want a sugar daddy to buy our way back up again, but to rebuild from scratch and do it the hard way, restore our values, our club and our sense of pride! Well, I am ashamed to be associated with some of you on this site and I can;t believe you are the same people that wanted these things over a year ago. You are strangers to me, I have nothing in common with. In fact, most of those who I agree with, can;t be bothered to voice their opinions anymore, mainly through not wanting to repeat themselves over and over again. But, that doesn;t apply to the haters. They start thread after thread of hatred against Cortese, Pardew (when he was manager) and player after player. It won't be too many games in when the anti-Adkins threads begin, questionning every decision, not debating, but 'hating'.

 

If the Liebherr family do happen to read this post, I want you to know, I thank Markus and Nicola for rescuing this club, taking it out of debt and restoring my pride. I wish you well in everything you do and hope that you can see your way past these faceless internet warriors and continue to enable this club to operate without huge injections of cash. I don;t want your money, but I would love to have your support and guidance. Southampton FC means a lot to me, I hope it will mean something to you in time. But, if you do leave, please do so without any regrets and with only my best wishes and hope for the future, yours, mine and this clubs.

 

I do hope these rumours are unfounded and that these people that are trying to run this club into the ground give up. I think those of us that truly support this club need to be a bit tighter in the future to stop this disease from spreading like woodworm and making us rotten from the core.

[alpine_saint]

FFS move on, SOGGY.

[JRM]

Ha john smith you need to get some councelling you loon

[sadoldgit]

Gosh, you are a sad old git aren't you!

 

Yes, are you a panda?

[derry]

Not again - Please refrain from making "In the know/Look at me" comments on a public forum. Use PM or go round his house to talk about it, but don't print it here for all to see. It is, at best, tedious.

 

Firstly it was a question, secondly worryingly, I have heard from somebody who knows a lot of people connected with the club at the top end, that it is rumoured the club is for sale. Thirdly Duncan is likely to know these same people, fourthly I was looking for a confirmation whether he had the same information. Logic says it isn't true but since when has logic been any use in football.

 

Finally when you own or run the forum you can make sanctimonious posts and instruct members what they can, or can't post, until then STFU, or post on the subject like most people on here.

[sadoldgit]

A fairly sound appraisal of where we are and why we are.

However we now have no choice but to unite behind NC/NA. Let's hope we have finally found a winning formula.

 

I just hope and pray NC is not already having second thoughts and looking to unload because "better the devil you know".

 

Would it be down to him though Duncan or Markus's family? Cortese may have the stomache for it but without the family jewels what can he do? If there was any substance in that rumour you heard earlier about ML/NC thinking of selling then perhaps we will have yet another new devil soon? Still, at least we are in a better position now for a potential buyer should it come to that.

 

Both ML and NC are businessmen at the end of the day and they weren't blind to the fact that getting to the Prem would give them access to a lot of money (and prestige of course). It is one thing having a 5 year plan, but what if we are still languishing in Div 1 next season and, God forbid, the season after?

[S-Clarke]

Why does nothing ever go to plan/normally with this club?

 

although i'm not too sure on the Cortese wants out rumour, as it's not really his investment - it's in the hands of the Liebhers and the rumour seems to have started from a taxi driver. I think you'll always see stories like this popup when things aren't going well.

[sandwichsaint]

Man C with all their wealth cannot get their act together so what chance Saints succeeding on very much less money. Not very good as is being proved right now. In a way it is good that money doesn't guarantee success.

 

Everton next for the drop? After Saints fell from grace they are the next longest serving top flight club so obviously their time for the big fall.

 

think you will find it's Spuds, HTH

[Dr Who?]

I thought the last dawn was going well up until the Monday after the Bristol Rovers game. Of course we will never know what hapopened there, but I really did think that result on the Saturday had started our season, and we were off! I was so happy at the reading Festival that evening. Oh well!

[derry]

Why does nothing ever go to plan/normally with this club?

 

although i'm not too sure on the Cortese wants out rumour, as it's not really his investment - it's in the hands of the Liebhers and the rumour seems to have started from a taxi driver. I think you'll always see stories like this popup when things aren't going well.

 

Worryingly my information had nothing to do with the UI rumour and was told to me on Tuesday morning. I would think Duncan's hint was from a similar source. I'm pretty sure that Cortese and the Liebherr family have been disappointed with the reaction regarding Pardew's demise. I hope though that it isn't true because we could be bought by chancers and placed heavily in debt to finance it. I am happy that Pardew is gone and whilst I think Cortese could have done several things differently I fully support him and like his integrity.

[sadoldgit]

false dawn?

 

1 year in, team has progressed, support is up - that is a dawn - will prgress be sustained? Suspect yes but next 8 weeks or so are vital to regain momentum

 

Do you really believe that the team has progressed Nick? We seem to have completely lost the knack of putting the ball in the back of the net which could come back next week, but may not come back for ages. The players we needed to progress have not (for whatever reason) arrived yet. Without them I don't think we will achieve what we achieved last season, which would of course be regression. It could all come right starting against SW but even if we win we still need at least two more quality players to keep any kind of momentum going I think.

[NickG]

last four or five games is step back from the 2nd half of last season.

 

but on 12 months comparison we are better placed, test is will we be better placed in 12 months time

[aintforever]

If we don't get any loanies in you have to wonder what their plans are IMO.

[Dalek2003]

There is a small minority that personalise their attacks on individuals and carry on their own petty vendettas at the expense of the club as a whole. This happened in 2004 against Hoddle, and since then it has happened again.

If those same people cause the Liebherr family and NC to leave the club you can be sure that they will blame everyone but themselves.

[Gemmel]

There is a small minority that personalise their attacks on individuals and carry on their own petty vendettas at the expense of the club as a whole. This happened in 2004 against Hoddle, and since then it has happened again.

If those same people cause the Liebherr family and NC to leave the club you can be sure that they will blame everyone but themselves.

 

Stop trolling.

[aintforever]

There is a small minority that personalise their attacks on individuals and carry on their own petty vendettas at the expense of the club as a whole. This happened in 2004 against Hoddle, and since then it has happened again.

If those same people cause the Liebherr family and NC to leave the club you can be sure that they will blame everyone but themselves.

 

If Liebherr family and NC decide to sell the club, one thing you can be completely certain of, is that it's not because of what some football geeks have posted on some internet forum. They are business people, they will make business decisions.

[Gordon Mockles]

Yes, are you a panda?

 

LMAO Good come back. That actually made me laugh out loud. You do have your moments!!

[sadoldgit]

Lowe is gone. Get over it and move on. You're getting worse than Dalek with his Hoddle fixation.

 

I think if you had bother to read it properly there is very little mention of Lowe. The post is about the various people who have run the club, the expectations they brought with them and the fact that were are currently down the botom of the third division despite everything.

[sadoldgit]

LMAO Good come back. That actually made me laugh out loud. You do have your moments!!

 

Few and far between nowdays Gordon, but yes, I do have them!

[Red and White Army]

Worryingly my information had nothing to do with the UI rumour and was told to me on Tuesday morning. I would think Duncan's hint was from a similar source. I'm pretty sure that Cortese and the Liebherr family have been disappointed with the reaction regarding Pardew's demise. I hope though that it isn't true because we could be bought by chancers and placed heavily in debt to finance it. I am happy that Pardew is gone and whilst I think Cortese could have done several things differently I fully support him and like his integrity.

 

Sacking Pardew without any explanation a day before the transfer window ended and after a storming away win was always going to alienate a large section of the fanbase. Pardew turned our season around and won us a cup. He was successful and well liked by the vast majority of fans.

 

The lack of any explanation for his sacking by Cortese is unacceptable and I can't believe he is naive enough not to expect a backlash against the decision itself, the timing and the lack of explanation.

 

If he was really surprised, he has no idea what he is doing.

[NickG]

if we do badly there will be a back lash - if we do well fans wil be fine with it

[Bearsy]

anyone who thinks nc wants out needs to read the story about the watch that he keeps up his arse to stop pompey scum stealing it from lieherr yes he's in it for the long Gaul trust me xx

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Worryingly my information had nothing to do with the UI rumour and was told to me on Tuesday morning. I would think Duncan's hint was from a similar source. I'm pretty sure that Cortese and the Liebherr family have been disappointed with the reaction regarding Pardew's demise. I hope though that it isn't true because we could be bought by chancers and placed heavily in debt to finance it. I am happy that Pardew is gone and whilst I think Cortese could have done several things differently I fully support him and like his integrity.

 

Derry, I first heard this story about 2 months ago and it originated from an ex-player with good local connections and no political axe (ie not MLT, Franny etc). This was some weeks before Markus's sad passing. I really did not believe it although I suppose football clubs are always "for sale" (for the right price). However over the last week the rumour keeps coming back to me from other unconnected sources. I really do not want to believe it because being owned by the Liebherrs (and certainly while Markus was alive) you could ask for no better owners but perhaps things have now changed? Nicola could have lost his ambition as his friend is no longer alive and perhaps he hankers after returning to his pre-Saints way of life. I really do not know! If and it is a big if, there is a desire to sell let's hope they are selective to whom they sell. There are a lot of sharks out there and precious few good guys.

[sadoldgit]

I only read the first three paragraphs, but you had already rewritten history in that small section so many times that reading on was pointless.

 

How so?

[hackedoff]

the 5 year plan was based on getting out of League 1 in the first 2 years by either going up through the play-offs in the first season - i.e. last season - or going up automatically in the second season - i.e. this season. That would have given us 3 years to make it through ther Championship to the Premiership

 

But this was based on rebuilding the team, strengthening it and keeping the momentum going. That momentum has been lost since the end of last season - and the team is visibly weaker than last season.

 

I have no doubts that if the team from last season - with Waigo and Antonio - had been strengthened slightly over the summer we would have been looking at automatic promotion this season and kept that momentum going

 

now we are looking at making the play-offs at best this season - and that is an outside chance unless things change dramatically and the squad is strengthened very quickly with at least the striker, winger and central midfielder we so desperately need

 

the big problem is unless things do change quickly our key players - Lambert, Lallana, Fonte and Schneiderlin will look to move on in January to clubs already in the Championship or Premiership. And if not then I can't see them staying for another season in League 1 so they will be gone in the summer

 

which means we will probably be even weaker next season - and the 5 year plan will have to be revised to making it out of League 1 and into the Championship in 5 years by growing a team slowly - and there is no guarantee we will do that

 

why has this happened - why have things changed do much is just a close season - why has the momentum gone?

 

I think Markus Liebherr's death changed things more than most of us care to admit. It looks as though the money has gone - that the Liebherrs funding of the club has more or less stopped. And that is the simple reason why we failed to strengthen the team in the summer - everybody - players, manager and supporters - new the team needed strengthening but the money to do it disappeared with Markus.

 

This put a stop on the promises made to Pardew and the players about building a team good enough for the Championship - and I imagine caused more friction between Pardew and Cortese over the lack of transfer funds and the failure to sign players (Antonio, Matt Phillips, Nicky Bailey, etc, etc) - and the weight of expectation.

 

If the more probable rumours are to be believed Pardew and his two assistants then applied for the vacant jobs at Villa or asked Cortese for permision to talk to Villa - this proved to be the final straw for Cortese in his relationship with Pardew and led to a parting of the ways.

 

to be honest if this was the case I don't blame Pardew for wanting the Villa job - and I can understand why Cortese got rid of Pardew as a result

 

if the money has run out at Saints Nigel Adkins - with his track record at S****horpe - is probably the better man for the job - but as fans we are going to have to accept the new timescales for getting out of League 1 and probably accept that the Premiership (with the new parachute payments to the relegated clubs in the Championship making it almost impossible to compete with them) is beyond us

 

I just hope we can recoup or make money from the sales of players like Lallana, Lambert, Fonte and Schneiderlin in January or next summer and invest it wisely in rebuilding the team for the new 5 year plan

 

I hope I am proved wrong about the money drying up though

 

It,s depressing,but I dont think you are far from the truth with this.

[SaintRichmond]

Derry, I first heard this story about 2 months ago and it originated from an ex-player with good local connections and no political axe (ie not MLT, Franny etc). This was some weeks before Markus's sad passing. I really did not believe it although I suppose football clubs are always "for sale" (for the right price). However over the last week the rumour keeps coming back to me from other unconnected sources. I really do not want to believe it because being owned by the Liebherrs (and certainly while Markus was alive) you could ask for no better owners but perhaps things have now changed? Nicola could have lost his ambition as his friend is no longer alive and perhaps he hankers after returning to his pre-Saints way of life. I really do not know! If and it is a big if, there is a desire to sell let's hope they are selective to whom they sell. There are a lot of sharks out there and precious few good guys.

 

So you reckon all the hype ( by Cortese ) about the Leibherr Family going to honour Markus Leibherrs 5 Year Plan is a load of Bullsh*t then ????

[maysie]

It was all going so well until we left the Dell. Then there was an air of excitement as you approached the ground, anticipation of some exciting, attacking football with players who were characters and who actually wanted to play for the club, a feeling that we and our ground were unique and an expectancy that we would beat whoever the opposition was - Man Ure preferably. And switch on Match of The Day to see us beat them all over again.

 

Now it's an air of despondency as we approach the off-the-peg shed to watch off-the-peg football from journeymen players and certainly can't be arsed to watch the humiliation again at some God-forsaken dog-end of the television schedules.

 

And I actually believe it was easier to get a ticket in those days; and it probably won't be any easier when we are down to 9.000 crowds in League 2 (as they laughingly call it).

 

Guess we just had ideas above our station.

 

Possibly the stupidest post ever

[aintforever]

So you reckon all the hype ( by Cortese ) about the Leibherr Family going to honour Markus Leibherrs 5 Year Plan is a load of Bullsh*t then ????

 

What else would they say "Marcus is dead, you're ****ed"?

[Wes Tender]

I think if you had bother to read it properly there is very little mention of Lowe. The post is about the various people who have run the club, the expectations they brought with them and the fact that were are currently down the botom of the third division despite everything.

You mentioned him three times by name and once more as "he". I realise that you would have loved to have devoted the entire thread to him, but that you showed remarkable restraint and restricted it to just the four mentions. Well done.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

So you reckon all the hype ( by Cortese ) about the Leibherr Family going to honour Markus Leibherrs 5 Year Plan is a load of Bullsh*t then ????

 

I "reckon" nothing. I know nothing as I said. Just answering Derry's question.

[Teddy Nutkins]

I "reckon" nothing. I know nothing as I said. Just answering Derry's question.

 

Logic tells us that non of this should be true Duncan, but there is no smoke without fire, as they say.Why bring in a new manager, why indeed sack the old manager, if you are lining up the club to be sold.Anyway, i'll never forget when, at my place of work, they completely gutted the old ,ladies toilet block, replaced it with a brand new washroom, then closed the place and made everyone redundant two weeks later.Logic hey.

Edited 23 September, 2010 by Teddy Nutkins
spelling

[Panda]

Yes, are you a panda?

 

LOL! No, 'old git' may be but not sad. 'Life is too short' as the saying does to get too run down by current events. After 50 plus years supporting Saints I do long for the 'good old days' of the 60's but they won't come back. I take every twist and turn of the Saints saga as it comes, usually with disappointment in recent years, but its only football after all and I have a lot of other interests. We move on, what will be will be, but I don't think it is time to take an overdose because of a few bad weeks; things may look up next week and you wouldn't want to miss that would you?

[hughieslastminutegoal]

If Liebherr family and NC decide to sell the club, one thing you can be completely certain of, is that it's not because of what some football geeks have posted on some internet forum. They are business people, they will make business decisions.

 

What? Are they not thin-skinned shrinking violets who burst into tears at the first sign of criticism and are suddenly distraught at finding out football fans are impatient and inherently contradictory? The world of banking and mega-business is so much more genteel; no one tries to out-do anyone else, and a helping hand is extended whenever that sad tear trickles down a needy face... I can see exactly why Saints Web forum with all its dozen regular posters would have upset them so much.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

LOL! No, 'old git' may be but not sad. 'Life is too short' as the saying does to get too run down by current events. After 50 plus years supporting Saints I do long for the 'good old days' of the 60's but they won't come back. I take every twist and turn of the Saints saga as it comes, usually with disappointment in recent years, but its only football after all and I have a lot of other interests. We move on, what will be will be, but I don't think it is time to take an overdose because of a few bad weeks; things may look up next week and you wouldn't want to miss that would you?

 

Even the good old days had the standard over-reaction of frustrated football fans. I can remember regular slow handclapping if we weren't 2-0 up at half time, and on occasions after a run of 3 defeats the "Bates out" chanting was taken up just as enthusiastically by the old farts in the centre west stand. Its just the tails side of the coin where heads is "We're the best side in the league" after 3 consecutive 1-0 wins. Anyone buying a football club must realise that. And if NC and "The Family" didn't already understand that, where on earth must they have been? Switzerland? Oh.

Edited 23 September, 2010 by hughieslastminutegoal

[docker-p]

Even the good old days had the standard over-reaction of frustrated football fans. I can remember regular slow handclapping if we weren't 2-0 up at half time, and on occasions after a run of 3 defeats the "Bates out" chanting was taken up just as enthusiastically by the old farts in the centre west stand. Its just the tails side of the coin where heads is "We're the best side in the league" after 3 consecutive 1-0 wins. Anyone buying a football club must realise that. And if NC and "The Family" didn't already understand that, where on earth must they have been? Switzerland? Oh.

Those days seemed more fun. The element of 'evangelical zeal' that is now required if you're to be considered a real fan didn't exist. You could wear a Saints scarf, own a season ticket, and happily 'boo' any poor performance, and look forward to next Saturday. Booing a lacklustre performance or questioning the CEO is now tantamount to high treason.