Public Sector Pay

[GenevaSaint]

Not seen if it's been posted elsewhere.....

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11333472

 

Some of the figues are astronomical....

 

There are 349 staff earning over 100K in the Hampshire PCT

There are 344 GPs earning over 100K in the Hampshire PCT (not sure if that's included above)

12 headteachers in Hampshire earn over 100K

2 headteachers in Southampton earn over 100K

Edited 20 September, 2010 by GenevaSaint

[bridge too far]

I wonder what the comparable rates are for comparable jobs in the private sector. We never see those published, do we?

 

We mustn't forget that most GPs are in fact self-employed and contracted to the NHS. I wonder what other 'specialists' contracted by the public sector earn?

 

Here's an article about headteachers' pay in the private sector:

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/education/article6968530.ecen

 

and this:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/6894998/Head-teachers-get-pay-rises-to-push-salaries-over-150000.html

[View From The Top]

As someone who spends his working life in the public sector I feel that far, far too many poor managers are paid far, far too much money.

 

It's also a case of seniority gets promotion regardless of ability in too many cases. All that happens is the Peter Principal comes into play.

 

There are times, such as getting the best teaching staff for very poor schools, when you have to offer the big bucks but for a lot of positions it's a case of poor managers getting paid too much whilst doing a poor to middling job.

 

And I consider myself a leftie.

[bridge too far]

I don't know how it works in local government and the civil service, but in the NHS there is the Agenda for Change.

 

This is a formula for working out pay using various criteria including, for example:

 

Size of budget responsibility

Number of staff directly reporting to said manager

Market forces

 

For example, a former manager of mine earned something in the order of £80K. For that, she had budget responsibility for two concurrent PFI projects worth a total of over £200m and she managed over 30 people. The market forces principle didn't apply, it would seem, as she would have earned far more had she been project director for the construction company building the hospitals.

 

I guess some, if not all, of the above apply in the private sector too.

 

Although quite how some of the big, big earners taking home millions a year fit such criteria. Isn't there a move to suggest that all 'bosses' earn no more than 20 times the lowest paid member of his / her workforce?

[Saintandy666]

While I think that some of the pay some people get for their jobs IS extortionate, I think sometimes you will have to pay 150k+ to get the very best people working for you... and after all, we want the very best people running our public services, do we not?

[JustMike]

how much did those bankers get in bonuses? How much did that BP dude get, again in bonuses alone?

[thefunkygibbons]

It seems to me that as money was pumped into the public sector over the last few years, that success was measured on inputs, i.e. how much was spent rather than outputs

 

Those salaries for GPs demonstrate what everyone knew. The last Government got the GP contract wrong and managed to pay considerably more money for much less work.

[saint_stevo]

surprised at how much certain people i work with get paid

[bridge too far]

It seems to me that as money was pumped into the public sector over the last few years, that success was measured on inputs, i.e. how much was spent rather than outputs

 

Those salaries for GPs demonstrate what everyone knew. The last Government got the GP contract wrong and managed to pay considerably more money for much less work.

 

But it wasn't for 'much less work' was it. GPs have to pay for their premises and staff and were paid for the number of health promotion and prevention services they provided as well as for the routine surgeries. Health promotion and prevention is very cost effective. For example, diabetes testing can reduce the incidence of blindness and amputation in the long run. So actually it's money well spent.

 

They also have to pay private companies to provide an out-of-hours service if they are not able / willing to do it themselves.

[Hatch]

GPs are well underpaid.

 

You would have to pay me well in excess of 7 figures to spend my days looking at wrinkly old grannies wotsits.

[bridge too far]

GPs are well underpaid.

 

You would have to pay me well in excess of 7 figures to spend my days looking at wrinkly old grannies wotsits.

 

Not to mention old mens' prostates

[Special K]

Not to mention old mens' prostates

 

If you could actually see them you would be earning your money, or get locked up, i can't decide which.

[bridge too far]

If you could actually see them you would be earning your money, or get locked up, i can't decide which.

 

I might have a bumoscope - you never know!

[Viking Warrior]

Hatch

 

You would have to pay me well in excess of 7 figures to spend my days looking at wrinkly old grannies wotsits.

 

You AGEIST THUG!

[Hatch]

I might have a bumoscope - you never know!

 

 

I am already looking forward to the next series of Dragons Den. Should be an episode not to be missed.

 

'Excuse me Duncan, while I demonstrate my bumoscope on you for the benefit of the others'

[Whitey Grandad]

GPs are well underpaid.

 

You would have to pay me well in excess of 7 figures to spend my days looking at wrinkly old grannies wotsits.

 

Just wait until you're old and married to a granny. Luckily your eyesight is usually failing by then.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

I'm suprised it took till 2:44pm for this thread! It will be interesting to see how the BBC approach this considering the 'Because we're worth it' title of Panorama tonight. I'm sure public sector workers will be portrayed as having Speed Boats/Porsches/second homes on the Almafi coast. Personally I feel the BBC are only highlighting this because they want to take the heat off themselves!

 

The fact of the matter is GPs ARE worth their six figure salaries, first class headteachers for example are by no means ten a penny and deserve the salaries they make. Now, whether or not they deserve to earn more than the man running the country is another argument; do GPs by diagnosing/treating life threatening illnesses 'deserve' more? A 'definition' of deserving is obviously very difficult to make. However, I'm not sure some of those people who are not on 'the front line' deserve salaries larger than Cameron.

[qwertySFC]

Not seen if it's been posted elsewhere.....

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11333472

 

Some of the figues are astronomical....

 

There are 349 staff earning over 100K in the Hampshire PCT

There are 344 GPs earning over 100K in the Hampshire PCT (not sure if that's included above)

12 headteachers in Hampshire earn over 100K

2 headteachers in Southampton earn over 100K

 

Considering the fact that a lot of those Gp's are front line prevention of ill health, recommending cancer consultation plus enabling many people to access the NHS services I think they are worth every penny, when you consider a lot of so called professional footballers earn that a week , and the majority of them struggle to string a coherent sentence together. As for head teachers, just try a day at one of our local schools or "free child care facility" for numerous don't give a toss parents and see the difficult environment they work in..

[bridge too far]

I think the PM should be paid more, even given that he has two grace-and-favour residences.

 

I was interested to read this:

 

Regardless of how long he or she serves, any former Prime Minister is entitled to half his £194,250 salary index-linked against inflation for the rest of his life. Mr Brown voluntarily waived his right to this payment – but the entitlement remains in legislation for whoever his successor might be; even if they only hold the post for a few months.

 

from: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ianmcowie/100005545/number-10-defends-gordon-browns-gold-plated-pension/

 

The Torygraph's 'economical with the truth' headline didn't escape my attention

 

I'm not sure why the PM's salary is shown as £194K+ - do they get paid for being an MP on top of the PM's salary?

[pap]

Most public sector pay is ****e.

 

I worked at Ordnance Survey. Brilliant job. Totally **** wages.

 

I'd go back to work there tomorrow provided I didn't have to rely on the money.

[GenevaSaint]

I'm suprised it took till 2:44pm for this thread! It will be interesting to see how the BBC approach this considering the 'Because we're worth it' title of Panorama tonight. I'm sure public sector workers will be portrayed as having Speed Boats/Porsches/second homes on the Almafi coast. Personally I feel the BBC are only highlighting this because they want to take the heat off themselves!

 

The fact of the matter is GPs ARE worth their six figure salaries, first class headteachers for example are by no means ten a penny and deserve the salaries they make. Now, whether or not they deserve to earn more than the man running the country is another argument; do GPs by diagnosing/treating life threatening illnesses 'deserve' more? A 'definition' of deserving is obviously very difficult to make. However, I'm not sure some of those people who are not on 'the front line' deserve salaries larger than Cameron.

 

Yes, as the OP, I wasn't slating the salaries earned, just surprised there were so many in Hampshire that were so high. I was slightly concerned by the GP who earned nearly 500k though!

[bridge too far]

I bet that GP manages more than one practice and / or surgery and may well run surgery based pharmacies as well.

 

His 'salary' is, in fact, his profit after he's paid out for staff and premises and obviously, if he has more than one practice his overheads are higher and so are his profits.

 

In fact, if he does own more than one practice, I can well imagine that he achieves economies of scale which can only be beneficial for his patients and the NHS.

[CB Saint]

I was surprised at the total package of the bbc director general - £838k.

[Saint In Exile]

I was surprised at the total package of the bbc director general - £838k.

 

Not bad for a colleague biting pitbull is it!!!

[bridge too far]

I was surprised at the total package of the bbc director general - £838k.

 

Not as much as ITV pays its chief:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnologyandtelecoms/7474359/Michael-Grade-walks-from-ITV-with-1.2m-bonus.html

 

For a far inferior product.

[shurlock]

Although quite how some of the big, big earners taking home millions a year fit such criteria. Isn't there a move to suggest that all 'bosses' earn no more than 20 times the lowest paid member of his / her workforce?

 

Yep, the Hutton Review - only looking at the public sector though. Its another issue whether a cap of 20:1 is desirable and/or feasible.

[Jonnyboy]

Yep, the Hutton Review - only looking at the public sector though. Its another issue whether a cap of 20:1 is desirable and/or feasible.

 

So the lowest earns what - 12k?

So a boss can earn 240k?

 

Thats a lot more than most gps etc

 

Maybe it should be 10:1

(and applied to the private sector too, thank you)

[Johnny Bognor]

Not as much as ITV pays its chief:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnologyandtelecoms/7474359/Michael-Grade-walks-from-ITV-with-1.2m-bonus.html

 

For a far inferior product.

 

True, but this is an example where the differences between Public and Private sectors are most prominent.

 

The BBC DG gets given billions of £££'s from the taxpayer and so is only really responsible for spending and product. If they need more cash, they just go to the government with the begging bowl.

 

The ITV chief is ultimately responsible for having to build a strategy that brings home the bacon to pay for the channel - no money 'given' to them. It is far easier to be responsible for a budget that it is given to you compared to having to go out and bring in the revenues that provide any subsequent budgets (especially with the global down turn in advertising revenues).

 

Ultimately spending someone else's money is easy, having to go out and find it in a competitive world is a completely different matter.

Edited 21 September, 2010 by Johnny Bognor