Any Advice regarding a SFC Photo

[Matthew Le Tissier]

Hi Guys

 

Has anyone any advice for me on this!!

 

i was trolling google images a few years back and came accross a photo, it was a photo of lots of past saints legends faces and the words southampton fc along the bottom.

 

i loved this so i put it onto my website! http://www.footballshirtcollector.com

 

 

now 2 years on a gentleman from http://www.sporting-heroes.net has contacted me asking for £1200 for using his photos.

 

the one photo i found had 15 or so faces on so he has charged me his fee 15 times. someone at some point must have robbed the faces of his individual player photos and made this one up! how was i suppose to know that as it had no copyrite or any of his details stamped on the photo?

 

i think it could have been gheko saint who made this up i cant remeber. im sure it was him as he also saw the photo on my website and said he didnt mind i robbed his photo!! which ill also add didnt have his stamp on either.

 

 

so im not sure what to do really, does this guy have a case against me? i cant see how , if he had his web address or copyrite on the photo i could understand, however if it had that i never would have used it!

 

i have told him my website is not a business and dont have the funds, also as soon as he made me aware of this the photo in question was removed, however he is still pestering me threatening me with court proceedings, he has halfed it to 600 as a good will gesture tho to settle without the hassle with court.

 

this makes me think he is blagging it, as he states he will clearly win without fail at court , so why reduce the money?

 

not sure what to do?

 

any help would be great!

 

 

please excuse the gramor and spelling as i had to rush this and im thick as ****

[Huntingdon]

Has he shown you any documentation or proof that he has copyright on those photos?

[Verbal]

I think it's a con. The copyright language sounds like it's designed to 'be there' once someone who's been contacted by him checks on the website.

 

This, for me at least, is the giveaway:

 

'Our unique search engines make finding [the photographs] easy.'

[Dog]

Tell him you have 6 weeks to live, and you'll get your McMillan nurse to send a cheque.

[saintscottofthenortham]

Blagger.

[LGTL]

Tell him to f*ck off in no uncertain terms.

[Hatch]

I'll kill him for £400

[rocknrollman no2]

Im pretty sure if you claim copywrite,then you have to have a document issued from a solicitor stating so.

My advice to you Matt is to ask to see a copy of this document.But the fact that he has halved his claim already,without going through the courts,means he knows hes on dodgy ground.

[bridge too far]

Here's the lowdown on copyright.

 

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/copy.htm

 

I haven't read it fully but it seems to me that there are time limits so, if the photos are really old, they might be time expired.

[Tractor_Saint]

Tell him to f*** off - if that doesn't work ask him if his name is George Herringshaw and he lives at:

27 Park View

Leicester, Leicestershire LE3 6SJ

Tel 0116 2320310

 

Is aged 60ish

 

Lives with Owen R Herringshaw , Liam G Herringshaw , Paul G Herringshaw & Karen V Herringshaw

 

Lived in the same house for more than 10 years which is worth about £200,000

 

He drives a silver skoda estate and has a old style blue fiesta.

 

He's got a blue garage door.

 

That should do it. Failing that, send Hatch round for £400

 

Watch out though Richard, it's a dangerous world out there ... Does anyone ever get the C mixed up with Huntspond BTW?

Edited 18 September, 2010 by Tractor_Saint

[Smirking_Saint]

Hi Guys

 

Has anyone any advice for me on this!!

 

i was trolling google images a few years back and came accross a photo, it was a photo of lots of past saints legends faces and the words southampton fc along the bottom.

 

i loved this so i put it onto my website! http://www.footballshirtcollector.com

 

 

now 2 years on a gentleman from http://www.sporting-heroes.net has contacted me asking for £1200 for using his photos.

 

the one photo i found had 15 or so faces on so he has charged me his fee 15 times. someone at some point must have robbed the faces of his individual player photos and made this one up! how was i suppose to know that as it had no copyrite or any of his details stamped on the photo?

 

i think it could have been gheko saint who made this up i cant remeber. im sure it was him as he also saw the photo on my website and said he didnt mind i robbed his photo!! which ill also add didnt have his stamp on either.

 

 

so im not sure what to do really, does this guy have a case against me? i cant see how , if he had his web address or copyrite on the photo i could understand, however if it had that i never would have used it!

 

i have told him my website is not a business and dont have the funds, also as soon as he made me aware of this the photo in question was removed, however he is still pestering me threatening me with court proceedings, he has halfed it to 600 as a good will gesture tho to settle without the hassle with court.

 

this makes me think he is blagging it, as he states he will clearly win without fail at court , so why reduce the money?

 

not sure what to do?

 

any help would be great!

 

 

please excuse the gramor and spelling as i had to rush this and im thick as ****

 

....

Edited 19 September, 2010 by Smirking_Saint
Wrong poster

[RedArmy]

Tell him to f*** off - if that doesn't work ask him if his name is George Herringshaw and he lives at:

27 Park View

Leicester, Leicestershire LE3 6SJ

Tel 0116 2320310

 

Is aged 60ish

 

Lives with Owen R Herringshaw , Liam G Herringshaw , Paul G Herringshaw & Karen V Herringshaw

 

Lived in the same house for more than 10 years which is worth about £200,000

 

He drives a silver skoda estate and has a old style blue fiesta.

 

He's got a blue garage door.

 

That should do it. Failing that, send Hatch round for £400

 

Watch out though Richard, it's a dangerous world out there ... Does anyone ever get the C mixed up with Huntspond BTW?

Weirdo.

[for_heaven's_Saint]

Someone I know had exactly the same thing from the same bloke. Don't know the details but think they ended up paying. IIRC they were sent a letter through the post with screen grabs of their website as well as proof he owned the copyright.

[Matthew Le Tissier]

Someone I know had exactly the same thing from the same bloke. Don't know the details but think they ended up paying. IIRC they were sent a letter through the post with screen grabs of their website as well as proof he owned the copyright.

 

Realy?? Any more info? He sent me copy of the screen etc!

 

He's a right ****bag

[Matthew Le Tissier]

Tell him to f*** off - if that doesn't work ask him if his name is George Herringshaw and he lives at:

27 Park View

Leicester, Leicestershire LE3 6SJ

Tel 0116 2320310

 

Is aged 60ish

 

Lives with Owen R Herringshaw , Liam G Herringshaw , Paul G Herringshaw & Karen V Herringshaw

 

Lived in the same house for more than 10 years which is worth about £200,000

 

He drives a silver skoda estate and has a old style blue fiesta.

 

He's got a blue garage door.

 

That should do it. Failing that, send Hatch round for £400

 

Watch out though Richard, it's a dangerous world out there ... Does anyone ever get the C mixed up with Huntspond BTW?

 

Brilliant!!!haha

[aintforever]

I wouldn't worry about it, I doubt he will take you to court - more likely jst trying his luck with the threat of it.

 

I would deny ever using the pic and say any screen shot he has has just been faked in photoshop - it would be impossible to prove otherwise.

[Tractor_Saint]

Weirdo.

 

Care to elaborate? Or is stringing a sentence together too demanding for such a small brain?

[UniS]

i have told him my website is not a business

 

Despite pretty much everything on the site being available for purchase? Hmm...

[Guest Dark Sotonic Mills]

I'm pretty sure if you claim copyright,then you have to have a document issued from a solicitor stating so.

My advice to you Matt is to ask to see a copy of this document.But the fact that he has halved his claim already,without going through the courts,means he knows he's on dodgy ground.

 

Not true, I'm afraid. Anything that is an original work (and that includes making a montage of other works) is automatically copyrighted. All you need to be able to do is prove that you created it before anyone else used it. Black and white I'm afraid. Copyright exists for 70 years and can be renewed by the estate as well. (For example Peter Pan, copyright owned by GOSH even though J M Barrie died ages ago.)

[ericb]

In all honesty if he owns copyright on all the images and you have used it without licence or permission from the copyright owner you don't have a leg to stand on. There's even case law that would support him too, look into Prince suing fan blogs for using his album covers and images, probably your best bet would be to try and use a variant of the US DMCA safe harbours (under the Millennial copyright act).

 

Although saying that that will only cover you if you've had the content uploaded by another user and have clear guidelines about your usage policy, coupled with a complete lack of knowledge of the image having been uploaded up to the point at which the copyright owner requested removal (and even that is being tested by the Verizon case against Youtube at the moment).

 

The sad truth for yourself is that not knowing is not an applicable defensive in the court of law. I'd expect the money that he's going for is more than likely a loss of earnings fee, especially since the images are actually available for sale too.

 

Probably your only saving grace would have been if you'd adapted the image in some way, for example photoshopped it, since if enough work had gone into the editing and change of the image than it would be covered under the "sweat of the brow" part of copyright law that allows the work to be considered as a new work entirely.

 

As for the registration of copyright, whilst it is possible to technically register an item for copyright all work is copyrighted de-facto at the point of publish, and therefore the time stamp or upload date to the server (depending on if the work was of the sole ownership of the website in question) would support the website owner in a court of law.

 

Sorry to be so negative but if i were you'd i'd look into getting legal advice to minimise loss and/or talk to citizens advice about this.

 

As an interesting aside i'd also suggest that most people who link through to any image on there for any forums should carefully consider what they're doing if they're taking this seriously.

[Matthew Le Tissier]

In all honesty if he owns copyright on all the images and you have used it without licence or permission from the copyright owner you don't have a leg to stand on. There's even case law that would support him too, look into Prince suing fan blogs for using his album covers and images, probably your best bet would be to try and use a variant of the US DMCA safe harbours (under the Millennial copyright act).

 

Although saying that that will only cover you if you've had the content uploaded by another user and have clear guidelines about your usage policy, coupled with a complete lack of knowledge of the image having been uploaded up to the point at which the copyright owner requested removal (and even that is being tested by the Verizon case against Youtube at the moment).

 

The sad truth for yourself is that not knowing is not an applicable defensive in the court of law. I'd expect the money that he's going for is more than likely a loss of earnings fee, especially since the images are actually available for sale too.

 

Probably your only saving grace would have been if you'd adapted the image in some way, for example photoshopped it, since if enough work had gone into the editing and change of the image than it would be covered under the "sweat of the brow" part of copyright law that allows the work to be considered as a new work entirely.

 

As for the registration of copyright, whilst it is possible to technically register an item for copyright all work is copyrighted de-facto at the point of publish, and therefore the time stamp or upload date to the server (depending on if the work was of the sole ownership of the website in question) would support the website owner in a court of law.

 

Sorry to be so negative but if i were you'd i'd look into getting legal advice to minimise loss and/or talk to citizens advice about this.

 

As an interesting aside i'd also suggest that most people who link through to any image on there for any forums should carefully consider what they're doing if they're taking this seriously.

 

You mention sweat of the brow!!

 

 

The image I found online is nothing like his image as some before has made it very cleverly ,

 

If you cam imagine he has thousands of action photos of individual players.

 

Someone robbed the faces of around 13 of of his photos and made up one photo with just 13 faces of saints legends then added text to it!

 

So the photo is nothing like anything he has but on close inspection you can see the heads are from the individual photos he has on his site.

 

Maybe I should just pay the man if I don't have a leg to stand on!

 

Sheet

[View From The Top]

 

Maybe I should just pay the man if I don't have a leg to stand on!

 

 

Which is what he's hoping you'll do, without a fight.

[Matthew Le Tissier]

Which is what he's hoping you'll do, without a fight.

 

Thing is he says in his letters if I go to court and lose which he's adamant I will

 

 

I will then have to foot the bills of all his legal costs?

[View From The Top]

Thing is he says in his letters if I go to court and lose which he's adamant I will

 

 

I will then have to foot the bills of all his legal costs?

 

He's hardly going to say otherwise is he?

[Rut]

i think it could have been who made this up i cant remeber. im sure it was him as he also saw the photo on my website and said he didnt mind i robbed his photo!! which ill also add didnt have his stamp on either.

 

Grassing someone else up won't help you. I'd edit that bit out of your original post. Not cool.

 

Don't think you've done yourself any favours by blantantly lying to him about your site being a business - having 'Various Saints Items For Sale' as one of the menu items kind of gives the game away. Telling him 'I have no funds' ain't exactly going to make him say 'oh ok - sorry for bothering you'. Don't think you thought those responses through did you? Too late now though.

 

Looking at all the terms and conditions on Sporting Heroes he looks quite serious about protecting his photos. Is it legally binding? How far does he take it? Have there been any previous court cases initiated by him in regards to his photos? I'm sure someone out there knows how to find out. If there haven't been any then just ignore him. No way will every person he has contacted paid him. If 1-in-10 do he still gets a nice little earner - with no hassles of going to court (nobody likes having to do that).

 

If it does get nasty then just plant an official SFC pic on his site & set Nicola onto him.

 

Good luck.

[Matthew Le Tissier]

Grassing someone else up won't help you. I'd edit that bit out of your original post. Not cool.

 

Don't think you've done yourself any favours by blantantly lying to him about your site being a business - having 'Various Saints Items For Sale' as one of the menu items kind of gives the game away. Telling him 'I have no funds' ain't exactly going to make him say 'oh ok - sorry for bothering you'. Don't think you thought those responses through did you? Too late now though.

 

Looking at all the terms and conditions on Sporting Heroes he looks quite serious about protecting his photos. Is it legally binding? How far does he take it? Have there been any previous court cases initiated by him in regards to his photos? I'm sure someone out there knows how to find out. If there haven't been any then just ignore him. No way will every person he has contacted paid him. If 1-in-10 do he still gets a nice little earner - with no hassles of going to court (nobody likes having to do that).

 

If it does get nasty then just plant an official SFC pic on his site & set Nicola onto him.

 

Good luck.

 

Thanks for all your comments and advice everyone ! You've been a great help! Think I'll just ignore him, will also say which I forgot to mention. None of hid letters are signed for or recorded which o thought was strange

[jawillwill]

I'd run away.

[buctootim]

I dont think you have anything to worry about. Yes it sounds like you broke copyright, but if you werent making money out of it all he is likely to be able to get is a 'cease and desist notice (ie stop doing what youre doing). Only if you continue the breach after that notice will he have a chance of damages - according to this photographers website anyway.

 

http://www.photographywebsite.co.uk/copyright-in-photography-c494.html

 

"One of the more common misconceptions about photograph copyright is that if you are not charging for a photograph then there is no copyright violation taking place. This is simply incorrect, all this will actually affect is the amount of damages that can be awarded in court, not the actual judgement of the crime itself. If your photographs are being reproduced on the internet without your permission but the person doing the reproducing is not charging for them then it will probably never end up in a court room as any legal advice you solicit will forward a cease and desist order noting the breaking of copyright to the person doing the reproducing. Court action will only be taken if they choose to ignore the cease and desist order."

[Matthew Le Tissier]

Great thanks for your help

[trousers]

Hi Guys

 

Has anyone any advice for me on this!!

 

i was trolling google images a few years back and came accross a photo, it was a photo of lots of past saints legends faces and the words southampton fc along the bottom.

 

i loved this so i put it onto my website! http://www.footballshirtcollector.com

 

 

I'd be more worried about the prolific use of the official Saints badge on your website to be honest...did Nicola give permission....?! ;-)

[trousers]

Actually, there may be a case for a counter claim against that website under the trades description act....

 

Exhibit A: sporting hero - jermaine wright

 

http://www.sporting-heroes.net/football-heroes/displayhero_club.asp?HeroID=44647

 

;-)

[dickyhale]

Just change your ip and tell him to shuf the pictures up his arse fussy old ****.

[Marsdinho]

Im just glad I didnt sell you my Mick Channon shirt, if all you want to do is make a profit on it.

 

If it were to form part of an exhibition, or a museum at SMS, I would have given it away for free.

[Pancake]

 

i have told him my website is not a business

 

Hmmm... http://www.matchworn.org/various-saints-items-for-sale/

[trousers]

Hmmm... http://www.matchworn.org/various-saints-items-for-sale/

 

Although the website does say:

 

"The Southampton match worn football shirts are our own personal collection and are not for sale. All other club's matchworn football shirts sold are sold to help fund our ever growing Southampton F.C match worn collection and online museum."

 

So, arguably, a 'not for profit' venture.

[thefunkygibbons]

Asking on an internet forum is no substitute for legal advice

[thefunkygibbons]

Tell him to f*** off - if that doesn't work ask him if his name is George Herringshaw and he lives at:

27 Park View

Leicester, Leicestershire LE3 6SJ

Tel 0116 2320310

 

Is aged 60ish

 

Lives with Owen R Herringshaw , Liam G Herringshaw , Paul G Herringshaw & Karen V Herringshaw

 

Lived in the same house for more than 10 years which is worth about £200,000

 

He drives a silver skoda estate and has a old style blue fiesta.

 

He's got a blue garage door.

 

That should do it. Failing that, send Hatch round for £400

 

Watch out though Richard, it's a dangerous world out there ... Does anyone ever get the C mixed up with Huntspond BTW?

 

A mix of Companies House for the legal details and Google Street View for the rest

 

It is indeed a scary world out there

[Marsdinho]

Although the website does say:

 

"The Southampton match worn football shirts are our own personal collection and are not for sale. All other club's matchworn football shirts sold are sold to help fund our ever growing Southampton F.C match worn collection and online museum."

 

So, arguably, a 'not for profit' venture.

 

WTF is an online museum other than just a collection of photographs....

 

Here's my "online museum" of "For Sale" signs...

http://www.google.co.uk/images?q=for%20sale%20sign&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox&oe=UTF-8&rlz=1I7GFRD_en&redir_esc=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1259&bih=620

 

I have another "online museum", its for Mount Everest

http://www.google.co.uk/images?um=1&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-gb%3AIE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7GFRD_en&biw=1259&bih=620&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=mount+everest&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

 

I also have a 3rd "online museum", I collect football shirts from around the world, as you can see, its clearly bigger than MLT's

http://www.google.co.uk/images?um=1&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-gb%3AIE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7GFRD_en&biw=1259&bih=620&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=football+shirts&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

[Pancake]

A mix of Companies House for the legal details and Google Street View for the rest

 

It is indeed a scary world out there

 

whois, land registry, google street view....

[Tractor_Saint]

I have another "online museum", its for Mount Everest

 

You just reminded me of a surreal event whilst on a skiing holiday in Andorra - went to a restaurant and had a 'raclette' meal for the first time ever. Loads of pics of Everest etc. and then found out that the owners were Ian Woodall & Cathy O'Dowd

[Tractor_Saint]

whois, land registry, google street view....

 

Not even that - whois, 192.com and google street view. Simples.

[trousers]

whois, land registry, google street view....

 

And forgetting the essential yachtspotter.com

[Marsdinho]

You just reminded me of a surreal event whilst on a skiing holiday in Andorra - went to a restaurant and had a 'raclette' meal for the first time ever. Loads of pics of Everest etc. and then found out that the owners were Ian Woodall & Cathy O'Dowd

 

Hope you didnt mention 1996?

[1576]

How ****ing bizzare is that!!

 

Just watched the programme on You Tube (The Dark Side of Everest)

 

clicky linky

[Whitey Grandad]

Just have your website in China or Taiwan. They ignore copyright there.

[St Marco]

Basically the guy has to proove they are his and he has the license to them before you put them up on your site. A screen grab of his computer with the time and date would not hold up in court due to the fact you can change those to anything you want at anytime. He could of done it after you asked for proof.

Normally to get proper copyright you have to have some outside confirmation of the date. An easy way some people do this is get your piece of work whatever it maybe. Put it in an envelope. Go to post office and pay recorded delivery and send to your own address. once the post arrives don't open it. This way you have the sealed dated stamp on the envelope, the signed date/time of when the envelope was received at the address and the post office slip with the tracking code of the item with it's date etc.. Of course the most common way to do this is actually through proper copyright channels via regestering it at copyrightservice uk. However doing this is expensive. Something like £70 for 10 years.

 

So really your safe unless the guy can provide clear evidence that he has the official copyright for the picture. This means having it registered and verified. It is all well and good him claiming to own the rights. But if he can't proove it there is no case. A screen grab of a computer date and time is not evidence.

[saint_mears]

You removed the photo and thus he cannot make any claim.