Ed Miliband, he is the one.

[Verbal]

why does the phrase "one born every minute" spring to mind?

 

Because, if you do maths you've just supplied, it means certain electoral victory for Labour next time. HTH.

[badgerx16]

In the Conservative leadership election in 2005, David Cameron won 28.3% of MPs votes in the first round, and 45.5% in the second - Which compares badly with the 46.6% of Labour MPs & MEPs that EM won.

 

He won in the 3rd ballot, when the majority of party members preferred him to David Davis.

 

As for the other half of the brokeback coalition, his result against Chris Huhne was almost exactly the same as the percentage split between Ed and David Milliband. ( Although there is apparently some credence to the claim that Huhne would have won had a large number of his votes not been delayed by the Christmas post ).

Edited 28 September, 2010 by badgerx16

[CB Saint]

Because, if you do maths you've just supplied, it means certain electoral victory for Labour next time. HTH.

 

But only in 18 years - I can cope with that

[trousers]

Welcome to another "my party is better than your party, ner ner ner ner ner" thread.

[CB Saint]

In all seriousness, I do wonder if electing EM could be a bit of an own goal. We know that the labour mps wanted david and we have seen what a divded party can be like when you look at the problems that Hague and IDS had. EM has an enormous job to do convincing those who matter in his party (and by that I mean the ones who will make all the public soundbites i.e. the mps) that he was the right choice after all.

[trousers]

When will the laBour Broadcasting Company wheel out mssrs Blair, Brown, Campbell, Mandleson etc for an interview and opinion on Mr Ed's speech?

 

Let me know when it's safe to start holding my breath....

 

;-)

[Special K]

The poor fella sounded like he had a real stinker of a cold when he was interviewed on R4 this morning. The freezing air of political isolation maybe taking it's toll?

[scotty]

The poor fella sounded like he had a real stinker of a cold when he was interviewed on R4 this morning. The freezing air of political isolation maybe taking it's toll?

 

Hes sounded like that every time Ive heard him speak. And he came across appallingly badly on R4 imo, I happened to watch a dvd of the thick of it last night, a special titled the rise of the nutters, and I have to say the minister who got mauled by paxman reminded me of EM this morning. Painful

[trousers]

When will the laBour Broadcasting Company wheel out mssrs Blair, Brown, Campbell, Mandleson etc for an interview and opinion on Mr Ed's speech?

 

Let me know when it's safe to start holding my breath....

 

;-)

 

Talking of the BBC (which I was....to myself), I see they are running with the leaked letter between Liam Fox and David Cameron about defence cuts as their lead story.

 

It's a good job I'm not a cynic as I'd be inclined to question the 'coincidence' of the timing of this, on the day after the rumblings between 'old new Labour' and 'new new Labour' following Mr Ed's speech....

 

But given I'm obviously not a cynic I have to say that such conjecture is simply anti-BBC nonsense....

 

*wink*

[bridge too far]

Talking of the BBC (which I was....to myself), I see they are running with the leaked letter between Liam Fox and David Cameron about defence cuts as their lead story.

 

It's a good job I'm not a cynic as I'd be inclined to question the 'coincidence' of the timing of this, on the day after the rumblings between 'old new Labour' and 'new new Labour' following Mr Ed's speech....

 

But given I'm obviously not a cynic I have to say that such conjecture is simply anti-BBC nonsense....

 

*wink*

 

I think you'll find the BBC was just reporting on a leak published in the Torygraph.

 

In a private letter to David Cameron, leaked to the Daily Telegraph, he said he would refuse to back any substantial cuts to the armed forces.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11432620

[trousers]

I think you'll find the BBC was just reporting on a leak published in the Torygraph.

 

In a private letter to David Cameron, leaked to the Daily Telegraph, he said he would refuse to back any substantial cuts to the armed forces.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11432620

 

Yeah...just spotted that. Good job I wasn't agreeing with these mystery cynics I was alluding to....

 

Still, those same cynics could always point the figure at someone in the civil service with an equally devious mind....

Edited 29 September, 2010 by trousers

[Verbal]

In all seriousness, I do wonder if electing EM could be a bit of an own goal. We know that the labour mps wanted david and we have seen what a divded party can be like when you look at the problems that Hague and IDS had. EM has an enormous job to do convincing those who matter in his party (and by that I mean the ones who will make all the public soundbites i.e. the mps) that he was the right choice after all.

 

You could be right. However, the fallout from Labour's invasion of Iraq (!) and its enthusiastic participation in torturing the opposition in the War on Terror meant that DM was and may continue to be damaged goods - especially as the various inquiries and leaks continue. DM has for long been one of the loudest cheerleaders for war (see his caught-on-camera moment yesterday), and may yet face legal trouble over his 'acquiescence' (and foreknowledge?) to the torturers. He was also one of the ringleaders in the closing down of civil liberties - perhaps New Labour's greatest crime over the last nine years.

[trousers]

He was also one of the ringleaders in the closing down of civil liberties - perhaps New Labour's greatest crime over the last nine years.

 

Who's civil liberties was he closing down? The victims of crime?

 

(and, yes, I'm probably way out of my intellectual depth on this subject, so do your worse!)

[buctootim]

Mr Ed will last two years before MPs realise they won't get elected with him in charge and turn to bro David imo.

[Verbal]

Who's civil liberties was he closing down? The victims of crime?

 

(and, yes, I'm probably way out of my intellectual depth on this subject, so do your worse!)

 

It's a long and sorry tale, trousers. According to Liberty, over 60 new powers, contained in 25 separate Acts of Parliament, have eroded rights enshrined not only in the Human Right Act, but in Magna Carta itself. They range from excessive surveillance (eg. anti-terror laws now used to spy on parents claiming their children live in popular school catchment areas) and extradition without a prima facie case (Gary McKinnon, the autistic hacker facing the rest of his life in a US jail), to imprisonment without trial (Britain has one of the longest periods of detention without charge in the western world).

 

And, on the other side of the coin, Britain remains - the FOI notwithstanding - the most secretive state in the western world.

 

David Miliband has been heavily implicated in swinging the wrecking ball through such ancient rights, to the point where he is being accused of acceding to requests or information to torture British subjects. And, again, his support of New Labour's war in Iraq means we HAVE to see the back of him. However good or bad EM proves to be, electing DM was unthinkable.

 

According to Shami Chrakrabarti, who widely respected lawyer who runs Liberty, 'We have lived under one of the most authoritarian ages in living memory.'

[JackFrost]

Ed gets elected because of the union's backing, then along comes the first speech and he's immediately distancing himself from them

[buctootim]

Ed gets elected because of the union's backing, then along comes the first speech and he's immediately distancing himself from them

.

 

Yep. And spent the campaign rubbishing the Liberals and now cosying up to them. Its taken approximately 1 day of his leadership to decide I don't trust him - and I'm not anti labour, I'm a classic swing voter of the kind he needs to attract.

[Saintandy666]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1316129/Ed-Miliband-I-WILL-married-I-dont-believe-God.html

 

This is why I hate the mail. This whole article is totally irrelevant to anything to do with anything at all. Also, marriage has little to do with religion these days...

[Special K]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1316129/Ed-Miliband-I-WILL-married-I-dont-believe-God.html

 

This is why I hate the mail. This whole article is totally irrelevant to anything to do with anything at all. Also, marriage has little to do with religion these days...

 

TBF, equal amounts of irrelevant ****e appear in rags of all political leanings. I liked the Red Ed moniker, although surely Ken Livingstone will have something to say about being usurped by this young upstart.

[Verbal]

.

 

Yep. And spent the campaign rubbishing the Liberals and now cosying up to them. Its taken approximately 1 day of his leadership to decide I don't trust him - and I'm not anti labour, I'm a classic swing voter of the kind he needs to attract.

 

He may be good, he may be crap. But you will go nuts if you make up your mind after one day, then find yourself having to trust the alternative...

 

Decide in haste, repent at leisure.

[scotty]

Ed gets elected because of the union's backing, then along comes the first speech and he's immediately distancing himself from them

 

.

 

Yep. And spent the campaign rubbishing the Liberals and now cosying up to them. Its taken approximately 1 day of his leadership to decide I don't trust him - and I'm not anti labour, I'm a classic swing voter of the kind he needs to attract.

 

He may be good, he may be crap. But you will go nuts if you make up your mind after one day, then find yourself having to trust the alternative...

 

Decide in haste, repent at leisure.

 

You've given up on pushing the idea that EM wasn't elected by the union vote then?

[Verbal]

TBF, equal amounts of irrelevant ****e appear in rags of all political leanings. I liked the Red Ed moniker, although surely Ken Livingstone will have something to say about being usurped by this young upstart.

 

Agreed. Red Ken got elected in the 80s because large numbers of Londoners wanted to say f**k you to Thatch and Murdoch's hacks who hated him. (Thatch famously abolished the GLC just to get rid of him.)

 

'Red' actually made him popular - that and the free bus rides and cheap tube fares.

[Verbal]

You've given up on pushing the idea that EM wasn't elected by the union vote then?

 

Does not compute. I've never suggested he wasn't.

[scotty]

Does not compute. I've never suggested he wasn't.

 

My apologies, you are correct. I was getting you mixed up with Wade Garrett.

[buctootim]

He may be good, he may be crap. But you will go nuts if you make up your mind after one day, then find yourself having to trust the alternative...

 

Decide in haste, repent at leisure.

 

Obviously i haven't decided about him irrevocably, but the first signs aren't good. I think most people are sick of politicians who will say whatever is necessary to get elected, only to change tune later - normally more than 1 day later.

[sperm_john]

David Miliband ....then you might of had a chance!

[GenevaSaint]

My apologies, you are correct. I was getting you mixed up with Wade Garrett.

 

In fairness to Wade, he said no one in the unions told him how to vote. He had a vote as a union member and voted for whom he wanted to, in his case DM rather than EM.

[Verbal]

My apologies, you are correct. I was getting you mixed up with Wade Garrett.

 

Then I am officially mortified.

[TopGun]

Apologies fans for being away! :-)

 

As a relative leftie I have considered this vote for Ed long and hard.

 

First point that has to be made is that Ed won - with the union vote and not because of the union vote. The Labour Party has a clear constitution of vote splits between MPs, members and union members. The union element is quite small, but it did make the difference in this case. That does not make Ed a red as the Torygraph, Daily Hate etc are making out. The eradication of Clause 4 in the mid 1990s has made the Labour Party vote for a leader a fair amd transparent one by any comparison.

 

Now is Ed the man to lead Labour back to government? IMO, he is honest and I like his politics. But his brother David would have appealed to more in the UK and abroad as a credible figure. Maybe Ed will grow into that figure.

 

Will Ed beat the Tories? Well, he has to win the Labour Party at Parliament first. If he does that, then expect him to benefit from a coalition meltdown at some point. How long can Liam Fox keep quiet? How long will Vince Cable accept his role with George Osborne? How long before Simon Hughes says I'm with Charlie Kennedy and p$ss off Clegg?

 

Interesting times my friends!

[benjii]

Ask Benjii. He's the expert apparently - but it seems in his cap-doffing universe to exclude anyone from the traditional breeding grounds of our glorious rulers.

 

Oh dear - do you struggle with basic logic? Let me help you...

 

Denying the proposition that, "everyone schooled at Eton is necessarily a geek" does not imply that any particular person schooled at Eton is not a geek.

Edited 30 September, 2010 by benjii

[dune]

I had to have a lıttle chuckle at the dıvısıon ın the Labour ranks wıth many rıghtly questıonıng the decency of Red Ed ın standıng agaınst hıs brother. Also ı notıce that ın the latest poll 40% versus 24% say Cameron would make a better PM. The Socıalısts are lovıng havıng Red Ed whıch ıs very amusıng as those of us who hate Labour Labour are lovıng ıt just as much.

[Verbal]

Oh dear - do you struggle with basic logic? Let me help you...

 

Denying the proposition that, "everyone schooled at Eton is necessarily a geek" does not imply that any particular person schooled at Eton is not a geek.

 

I was referring to your comical idea about 'good education and upbringing'. The 'geek' conversation was with someone else.

[solentstars]

Welcome to another "my party is better than your party, ner ner ner ner ner" thread.

 

agree and its the usual suspects,they would vote for a bag of potatos if it had the party label on it,thank god its the undecided and independent voters in swing seats who decide elections.

has far has i can see the next election 5 years away and any party can win .

[dune]

As far has i can see the next election 5 years away and any party can win .

 

True, but Labours chances have certaınly gone down by makıng such an unlıkeable man leader. Red Ed ıs another Kınnock.

[solentstars]

True, but Labours chances have certaınly gone down by makıng such an unlıkeable man leader. Red Ed ıs another Kınnock.

 

don.t think it makes any difference,at the end of the day ed,s just another blair ,cameron clone .

[Saintandy666]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1317252/Why-Ed-Miliband-lodger-1-6m-home.html

 

Another irrelevant story :/

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1317252/Why-Ed-Miliband-lodger-1-6m-home.html

 

Another irrelevant story :/

 

If it is a tax fiddle then it is very relevant.

[Saintandy666]

If it is a tax fiddle then it is very relevant.

 

It isn't. They aren't married, why would they have a joint ownership necessarily... some married people don't. Why is this odd at all? Why does it matter? What has it got to do with any of his policy ideas? All this castigation over his personal life, particularly him not being married is totally irrelevant to anything at all in a modern society.

[dune]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1317252/Why-Ed-Miliband-lodger-1-6m-home.html

 

Another irrelevant story :/

 

However, remaining unmarried gives the couple protection from capital gains tax on the sale of property. Married partners can nominate only one ‘primary residence’ – which is exempt from the tax if it is sold – but unmarried couples can nominate two properties if they maintain separate ownership

 

Another champagne socialist with a "don't do as I do do as I say" attitude finely tuned to milking the system. As for Red Ed not having time to fill out the form to have his name put on his sons birth certificate I find that disgraceful.

[Saintandy666]

However, remaining unmarried gives the couple protection from capital gains tax on the sale of property. Married partners can nominate only one ‘primary residence’ – which is exempt from the tax if it is sold – but unmarried couples can nominate two properties if they maintain separate ownership

 

Another champagne socialist with a "don't do as I do do as I say" attitude finely tuned to milking the system. As for Red Ed not having time to fill out the form to have his name put on his sons birth certificate I find that disgraceful.

 

Ed Miliband isn't a socialist. He is slightly left of centre at best. This whole story has nothing to do with anything.

[dune]

Ed Miliband isn't a socialist. He is slightly left of centre at best. This whole story has nothing to do with anything.

 

So decency and family values have no place in politics in your book. I think you'll find that most people will have an issue with a hypocrite playing th system and a father that can't spare a few minutes to fill in a form for his sons birth certificate.

[Saintandy666]

So decency and family values have no place in politics in your book. I think you'll find that most people will have an issue with a hypocrite playing th system and a father that can't spare a few minutes to fill in a form for his sons birth certificate.

 

No, I just don't think you need to be married to have family values. The birth certificate thing is a little bit odd, but again... they aren't married. I'm sure he loves his son and treats him just as well as any other father, in fact probably better than many fathers, whose names are on the birth certificates. It really is irrelevant.

[scotty]

don.t think it makes any difference,at the end of the day ed,s just another blair ,cameron clone .

 

if you deduct the looks/personality/charisma/electability from the equation, I guess youre right. I'm left-wing politically and I'd like to see labour doing well after the hideous travesty of the blair reign, but I can't see it happening under this gormless tw*t. I think the party hierarchy know that, and that he's just a temporary bullet-taker while they sort out someone credible, probably about a year from the election.

[solentstars]

if you deduct the looks/personality/charisma/electability from the equation, I guess youre right. I'm left-wing politically and I'd like to see labour doing well after the hideous travesty of the blair reign, but I can't see it happening under this gormless tw*t. I think the party hierarchy know that, and that he's just a temporary bullet-taker while they sort out someone credible, probably about a year from the election.

 

the trouble is i see the lib con has more left wing than the authoritarian labour party and i,m glad that the present government is undoing some of labours right wing policys like id cards etc.

[dune]

No, I just don't think you need to be married to have family values. The birth certificate thing is a little bit odd, but again... they aren't married. I'm sure he loves his son and treats him just as well as any other father, in fact probably better than many fathers, whose names are on the birth certificates. It really is irrelevant.

 

The birth certificate thing is more than odd, it shows him to be a man that can't be arsed to do right by his child. If he can't be arsed to do right by his own flesh and blood then you've got to question his drive to do the right things for our country.

[dune]

the trouble is i see the lib con has more left wing than the authoritarian labour party and i,m glad that the present government is undoing some of labours right wing policys like id cards etc.

 

Socialism is akin to Marxism and has always been about control and the nanny state, and Conservatism has always been about freedom and giving responsibility to the people. After 13 dark years of Socialism we are seeing civil liberties returned. I think many people, including yourself, fail understand what you are voting for.

[scotty]

the trouble is i see the lib con has more left wing than the authoritarian labour party and i,m glad that the present government is undoing some of labours right wing policys like id cards etc.

 

nail, meet head. Thats exactly the way I see it. And I would love to have access to the hitchhikers guide improbability drive, go back to before the iraq invasion, put the lib/con coalition in place and see if we still invaded.

[scotty]

Socialism is akin to Marxism and has always been about control and the nanny state, and Conservatism has always been about freedom and giving responsibility to the people. After 13 dark years of Socialism we are seeing civil liberties returned. I think many people, including yourself, fail understand what you are voting for.

 

come off it mate, do you honestly believe the new labour project bore any resemblance to socialism?

[solentstars]

come off it mate, do you honestly believe the new labour project bore any resemblance to socialism?

 

i agree the present labour party reminds me of the dark days of thatchers governments authoritarian tendencys and she would be more at home with the present labour party i suspect rather than a leftwing tory party of today.

[solentstars]

Socialism is akin to Marxism and has always been about control and the nanny state, and Conservatism has always been about freedom and giving responsibility to the people. After 13 dark years of Socialism we are seeing civil liberties returned. I think many people, including yourself, fail understand what you are voting for.

 

unlike you i do not vote for the same party every election