Do SISA or The Trust speak for you, yes or no

[St Marco]

No, I completely disagree with that part and would suggest that it exactly what we DON'T want. We already have that. This site should be used as a resource to gauge opinions only, with fair and impartial reporting of the outcomes. Having one person speak on behalf of hundreds is a recipe for disaster. As a consensus it is quite possible to summarise a set of poll results in a balanced format, but having a designated spokesperson is a step too far, and far too much like the SISA / Saints Trust recipe we're trying to get away from.

 

But there are a fair few people on here who are actually decent people, know about the club, know about the general feel of the fans. Just using one person off the top of my head i.e Duncan. I would much rather someone like him spoke to the media on my behalf then someone who already does i.e NI. Simply because Duncan presents himself as someone who actually knows what he is talking about. Someone who bothers to take time to read places such as this to gain an idea on how things are. All clubs have a spokesman. Would you rather have someone who will do a good job speaking to them or someone like NI?

[MarkSFC]

Great letter, well done The Kraken! Glad The Echo published it but they had no choice really!!

 

Hopefully they will canvass fans' opinion in a better manner?!!

[The Kraken]

But there are a fair few people on here who are actually decent people, know about the club, know about the general feel of the fans. Just using one person off the top of my head i.e Duncan. I would much rather someone like him spoke to the media on my behalf then someone who already does i.e NI. Simply because Duncan presents himself as someone who actually knows what he is talking about. Someone who bothers to take time to read places such as this to gain an idea on how things are. All clubs have a spokesman. Would you rather have someone who will do a good job speaking to them or someone like NI?

 

Anyone speaking to the club, and offering an opinion (which is fine) needs to do so as an individual. You simply cannot speak for hundreds of people and capture everyone's opinion, its impossible. Take the SISA poll on here, if we had someone saying "well, obviously you can see SaintsWeb don't want SISA speaking for them", you're effectively not being truthful as there are some people who ARE happy for SISA to talk on their behalf.

 

Opinion pieces are good from individuals. If Duncan wants to give one, great. He has a record as club historian and more than earned the right to an opinion about the club. However, it would be an opinion from Duncan Holley. Not from any organisation.

 

My point is this; I don't believe anyone NEEDS to speak to the media on my behalf. The use of polls and such like mean that majority views can be gauged and heard, and I'd like to see more of this and much less of "titles" attempting to condense the various views of their members into a few sanitised words.

Edited 17 September, 2010 by The Kraken

[Noodles34]

Personally, I think this is well OTT.

 

SISA don’t speak for me for sure, but Jesus, who cares? Steve Grant doesn't speak for me even though I am a member of his site etc.

 

It does not bother me in the slightest when he is quoted in the paper, in the same way it doesn't bother when Nick is on Sky or TV or quoted in The Echo, and that goes for Mike too.

 

Whether SISA or the Saints Trust is relevant anymore is clearly debatable, but again, if a group of no doubt 'well meaning' Saints fans want to start a group amongst themselves, so what? SISA were very relevant during the Branfoot era and it has to be said, along with some other people were instrumental in ending his reign of terror. Since then the internet has taken over for fans' to voice their dissatisfactions etc. just like on here.

 

As for the personal attacks on Nick etc. its pathetic and seemingly done out of jealousy, what other reason is there? Don't tell me that its because he comes across like he speaks for the fans etc. he never says that (Do you really think David Cameron speaks for you or me? He's the British PM, the argument laboured here could be applied in the same manner)and anyone who thinks that the audience do think he represents the Saints' fans must underestimate the common sense of those who watch or read . Nick is a decent fan who probably attends more away games than most on here attend at SMS, and if The Echo or Sky ring him why should he not voice his opinion?

 

Once again, as Dam Kerrins made quite clear, they welcome views form anyone but it seems much more convenient for the 'full timers' on here to sit behind their avatars and hidden identities and slag off (personally) Nick, pathetic really.

[buctootim]

Personally, I think this is well OTT.

 

SISA don’t speak for me for sure, but Jesus, who cares? Steve Grant doesn't speak for me even though I am a member of his site etc.

 

It does not bother me in the slightest when he is quoted in the paper, in the same way it doesn't bother when Nick is on Sky or TV or quoted in The Echo, and that goes for Mike too.

 

Whether SISA or the Saints Trust is relevant anymore is clearly debatable, but again, if a group of no doubt 'well meaning' Saints fans want to start a group amongst themselves, so what? SISA were very relevant during the Branfoot era and it has to be said, along with some other people were instrumental in ending his reign of terror. Since then the internet has taken over for fans' to voice their dissatisfactions etc. just like on here.

 

As for the personal attacks on Nick etc. its pathetic and seemingly done out of jealousy, what other reason is there? Don't tell me that its because he comes across like he speaks for the fans etc. he never says that (Do you really think David Cameron speaks for you or me? He's the British PM, the argument laboured here could be applied in the same manner)and anyone who thinks that the audience do think he represents the Saints' fans must underestimate the common sense of those who watch or read . Nick is a decent fan who probably attends more away games than most on here attend at SMS, and if The Echo or Sky ring him why should he not voice his opinion?

 

Once again, as Dam Kerrins made quite clear, they welcome views form anyone but it seems much more convenient for the 'full timers' on here to sit behind their avatars and hidden identities and slag off (personally) Nick, pathetic really.

 

I dont mind NI. Hes reasonably lucid and whilst he doesnt represent me, his views are pretty mainstream. SISA are totally different, they have an ulterior agenda, one that I actively oppose.

[dune]

I dont mind NI. Hes reasonably lucid and whilst he doesnt represent me, his views are pretty mainstream. SISA are totally different, they have an ulterior agenda, one that I actively oppose.

 

I agree. I think they just want to drive the Liebherrs away from the club so they can implement their idea of modeling us on Read Madrid with Comrade Chorley and his minions ruling the roost.

[StrangelyBrown]

Im shocked that anyone has said yes. The media whores should shut up and f*** off as they clearly represent a minority and consequently their opinions count for nothing

[Wade Garrett]

Those idiots are the last people I would have represent my views.

[Victor]

Really funny, a load of people with disparate views most of them based on hearsay or absolutely nothing and who claim that Cortese does not worry about fans views getting worked up about a minor article in a paper they consider worthless and never read!

 

Personally I wouldn't want to be a member of any organisation that would have me as a member (apologies to Groucho) and I certainly would not want this forum to claim they spoke on my behalf.

 

I suspect the animosity towards SISA is more to do with personalities. If you think it contemptuous, treat it with contempt - ignore it instead of bringing it to everyone's attention. Otherwise get off your backsides and organise a representative organisation that can legitimately claim to speak for "the fans" but even if that can be done it will always be possible to claim "it doesn't represent ME".

[SFC Forever]

In a word No.

[gonzo]

No, neither speak for me. The trust had a purpose once, but no more. And SISA has never been anything more than a vehicle for certain supporters to delude themselves that they are more important than they actually are.

 

Both are now utterly pointless organisations, and you will get a far better and balanced idea on the view of Saints fans by reading this and other web forums than you ever will by listening to SISA morons.

[OldNick]

I think the most amsuing thing on here is the fact that SISA where 100% spot on regards Lowe from day 1.

 

The way Cortese is currently behaving whilst custodian of the club leaves alot to be desired.

but they were not

[SaintRichmond]

Personally, I think this is well OTT.

 

SISA don’t speak for me for sure, but Jesus, who cares? Steve Grant doesn't speak for me even though I am a member of his site etc. .

 

I CARE

 

When SISA The Trust, or anyone else puporting, ( through a local paper that has an axe to grind ),to speak on behalf of me and thousands more, to Demand that the Leibherr Family issue what would be, a staement of intent re Saints, then yes I CARE

 

If they have any sense at all, they would acknowledge that the Leibherr Family have ALREADY stated quite clearly that they will continue to implement Markus Leibherr's Five Year Plan

 

SISA/The Trust ie Richard Chorley, Nick Illingsworth, or whoever, should shut their stupid mouths

 

I hesitate to suggest what thier motive is, but it is certainly NOT in the best interests of The Club

 

If The Leibherr Family and Nicola Cortese were to take their "demand" seriously, then that would mean that a pitiful FEW carry sway over the wishes of the MANY

 

That cannot be right

 

The Echo are a disgrace to "imply" that SISA and The Trust speak for well over 95% of Saints Fans

An obvious example of Kr*p, biased, one side journalism

No wonder the Daily Wretched is printed on re-cycled paper, though I doubt if they even bother to recycle it these days

[eighties saint]

No, old enough to carry my own opinion

[Noodles34]

I CARE

 

When SISA The Trust, or anyone else puporting, ( through a local paper that has an axe to grind ),to speak on behalf of me and thousands more, to Demand that the Leibherr Family issue what would be, a staement of intent re Saints, then yes I CARE

 

If they have any sense at all, they would acknowledge that the Leibherr Family have ALREADY stated quite clearly that they will continue to implement Markus Leibherr's Five Year Plan

 

SISA/The Trust ie Richard Chorley, Nick Illingsworth, or whoever, should shut their stupid mouths

 

I hesitate to suggest what thier motive is, but it is certainly NOT in the best interests of The Club

 

If The Leibherr Family and Nicola Cortese were to take their "demand" seriously, then that would mean that a pitiful FEW carry sway over the wishes of the MANY

 

That cannot be right

 

The Echo are a disgrace to "imply" that SISA and The Trust speak for well over 95% of Saints Fans

An obvious example of Kr*p, biased, one side journalism

No wonder the Daily Wretched is printed on re-cycled paper, though I doubt if they even bother to recycle it these days

 

You need to get a life mate, really. Why are you this bitter about a supporters group, its members and a local paper? Where exactly has The Echo printed that SISA and The Trust represent 95% of us, can you point me there please, to be fair that would validate a little of your argument.

 

As for their demands on The Leibherr family, guess they are old and wise enough to deal with this in the manner that it should be dealt with and I think Cortese has already proved that no one dictates to him.

 

The question asked in the OP was 'do they represent us?' Clearly the answer is no from 'this forums' members (how much of the Saints fan base does this forum represent by the way? In fact how many of voted in the poll? Divide that by say, 23,000 regular supporters, what do you get as a %, is any bigger than those who will turn up at today’s meeting, genuinely don't know but I bet there isn’t much difference, so the whole argument implodes.).

But it’s the personal attacks on certain people that I find OTT, that was not the point of this thread was it? Otherwise why don't we start one titled 'Do you think NI, RC etc are ****s?’ I know Nick, he's not a mate but at the same time I got no problem with him, he is a Saints fan, pretty loyal one at that and I believe that he has always acted in the best interests of the club, and that goes for some of the others too, maybe their actions are debatable sometimes but fair play to RC for throwing coins at RL, ****ing fair play, everyone else, (me included) sit here and gripe through a keyboard whilst he actually wanted to show a poignant action displaying his (and many others) exasperation with the ego maniac.

This paranoid jealousy is almost laughable, if not laughable, very, very sad

[Noodles34]

0.023% represention of Saints fans saying that SISA and the Saints Trust don't represent them.

[OldNick]

0.023% represention of Saints fans saying that SISA and the Saints Trust don't represent them.

 

is there enough noughts able to be added to that figure to represent the % of fans that do believe they represent them?

I think that most Saints fans dont want people speaking for them, and are sick of the press making out that the opinions of these vocal look at me fans are allowed to look as they are speaking for 'us'

I would be happy that no saints fan offers his/her opinion on our behalf.

[Victor]

is there enough noughts able to be added to that figure to represent the % of fans that do believe they represent them?

I think that most Saints fans dont want people speaking for them, and are sick of the press making out that the opinions of these vocal look at me fans are allowed to look as they are speaking for 'us'

I would be happy that no saints fan offers his/her opinion on our behalf.

 

But I can't help feeling that, if asked, you would give your opinion and feel a more than a little chuffed at your opinion being quoted as representative of the fans. It almost certainly would not be representative of mine.

[buctootim]

0.023% represention of Saints fans saying that SISA and the Saints Trust don't represent them.

 

You think Saints have 2,493,000 fans? Interesting, either that or you are ****e at maths

Edited 18 September, 2010 by buctootim

[Noodles34]

is there enough noughts able to be added to that figure to represent the % of fans that do believe they represent them?

I think that most Saints fans dont want people speaking for them, and are sick of the press making out that the opinions of these vocal look at me fans are allowed to look as they are speaking for 'us'

I would be happy that no saints fan offers his/her opinion on our behalf.

 

I would imagine most people don't want anyone speaking 'for them', as the election turnouts usually suggest. No argument about whether people believe in SISA etc, just ridicously personal on someone who answers a question, Jesus, what about those people who were interviewed outside SMS when Marcus died, surely they don't represent us do they? They should have said "no comment" when the reporter asked about his passing away, otherwise by commenting they could be accused on here by some very sad individuals of promoting themselves as the voice of the fans when someone has simply asked a question.

Maybe the guy who does the new fanzine should be hung, drawn and quartered too, he has spelt out an opinion and by the same implications levied at SISA etc here, they should not be doing it.

Please someone explain to me what is different about SISA or NI answering a question, matey writing a fanzine or Charlie from Bitterne in the Echo saying "Think we should have kept Pardew"?

[Noodles34]

You think Saints have 2,493,000 fans? Interesting, either that or you are ****e at maths

 

stand corrected, 2.3%, still not a massive figure though is it?

[Noodles34]

But I can't help feeling that, if asked, you would give your opinion and feel a more than a little chuffed at your opinion being quoted as representative of the fans. It almost certainly would not be representative of mine.

 

Exactly!

[buctootim]

I would imagine most people don't want anyone speaking 'for them', as the election turnouts usually suggest. No argument about whether people believe in SISA etc, just ridicously personal on someone who answers a question, Jesus, what about those people who were interviewed outside SMS when Marcus died, surely they don't represent us do they? They should have said "no comment" when the reporter asked about his passing away, otherwise by commenting they could be accused on here by some very sad individuals of promoting themselves as the voice of the fans when someone has simply asked a question.

Maybe the guy who does the new fanzine should be hung, drawn and quartered too, he has spelt out an opinion and by the same implications levied at SISA etc here, they should not be doing it.

Please someone explain to me what is different about SISA or NI answering a question, matey writing a fanzine or Charlie from Bitterne in the Echo saying "Think we should have kept Pardew"?

 

Major major difference between expressing views as an individual fan and answering them in their official capacity of an organisation purporting to represent the views of large numbers of Saints fans.

[docker-p]

You need to get a life mate, really. Why are you this bitter about a supporters group, its members and a local paper? Where exactly has The Echo printed that SISA and The Trust represent 95% of us, can you point me there please, to be fair that would validate a little of your argument.

 

As for their demands on The Leibherr family, guess they are old and wise enough to deal with this in the manner that it should be dealt with and I think Cortese has already proved that no one dictates to him.

 

The question asked in the OP was 'do they represent us?' Clearly the answer is no from 'this forums' members (how much of the Saints fan base does this forum represent by the way? In fact how many of voted in the poll? Divide that by say, 23,000 regular supporters, what do you get as a %, is any bigger than those who will turn up at today’s meeting, genuinely don't know but I bet there isn’t much difference, so the whole argument implodes.).

But it’s the personal attacks on certain people that I find OTT, that was not the point of this thread was it? Otherwise why don't we start one titled 'Do you think NI, RC etc are ****s?’ I know Nick, he's not a mate but at the same time I got no problem with him, he is a Saints fan, pretty loyal one at that and I believe that he has always acted in the best interests of the club, and that goes for some of the others too, maybe their actions are debatable sometimes but fair play to RC for throwing coins at RL, ****ing fair play, everyone else, (me included) sit here and gripe through a keyboard whilst he actually wanted to show a poignant action displaying his (and many others) exasperation with the ego maniac.

This paranoid jealousy is almost laughable, if not laughable, very, very sad

A good post Noodles and sums things up for me.

I don't personaly know any of the Saints Trust or SISA. Some of what they say I agree with, some I don't. But they are a bunch of fans who have been prepared to come out from behind their keyboards and actively do something, and for that they get a shed load of abuse from warriors on here.

[buctootim]

stand corrected, 2.3%, still not a massive figure though is it?

 

No, but even though its a small sample, getting a 96% to 4% result is compelling.

[Noodles34]

No, but even though its a small sample, getting a 96% to 4% result is compelling.

 

point being though is that SISA etc are berated for having a small majority of opinions whereby this poll is also a small snapshot of opinions.

Clearly there is a simple answer, SISA and The Saints Trust are not relevant, not because of its leaders etc, but probably because Cortese couldn't give a flying **** what they said anyway! And if a lobby group is not listened too its pretty much redundant.

Perhaps some of the full timers on here might want to start up one when the need arises (and saints being saints, the need 'will' arise one day) or maybe they much prefer sniping behind their keyboards because they simply can't be arsed and would prefer to live their sad little lives twisted in jealously and bitterness?

Anyway, off to the game.... UTS

[simonsaints1]

Well said Noodles and Docker.

Loads of inter net anger on here, but please chaps, if you feel that strongly about them, go and tell them to their faces.

 

I have not met many of those blokes, other than to have recognized them from a lot of away games over the years.

 

I for one don't just want a sanitised, party line view on issues which affect SFC and lets be honest, there hasn't been that much info forthcoming from the OS has there?

 

These guys are asked for an opinion, it really isn't worth getting so worked up over.

[latter day saint]

 

These guys are asked for an opinion, it really isn't worth getting so worked up over.

 

wouldn't have a problem with them if it was stated as their own opinion & not that of a defunct entity which supposedly represents Saints fans.

find the latest demand from them extremely disrespectful to the Liebherr family in a time when they will still be in mourning.

[simonsaints1]

Fair point latter day.

[Toomer]

I was told that Chorley and one other tried to speak but got shouted down, the so called meeting lasted all of 3 mins.

[Mark]

I was told that Chorley and one other tried to speak but got shouted down, the so called meeting lasted all of 3 mins.

 

They were heckled from first minute to last. Chorley basically lost the plot and started arguing with someone. The meeting lasted less than 2 minutes. Lol

[saint_mears]

Just because you think they were right on an issue that happened 13 years ago, you think they should be given the benefit of the doubt for carrying on as an unelected, militant, incendiary "voice of the fans" despite only having the backing of 4% of fans to speak on their behalf? Ok then.

 

Since when have they said they are the voice of the fans ? Never is the answer

 

You also seem to have contradicting yourself by declaring a closed forum with just 500 votes as the entire fanbase quoting 4%

[LostBoys]

point being though is that SISA etc are berated for having a small majority of opinions whereby this poll is also a small snapshot of opinions.

Clearly there is a simple answer, SISA and The Saints Trust are not relevant, not because of its leaders etc, but probably because Cortese couldn't give a flying **** what they said anyway! And if a lobby group is not listened too its pretty much redundant.

Perhaps some of the full timers on here might want to start up one when the need arises (and saints being saints, the need 'will' arise one day) or maybe they much prefer sniping behind their keyboards because they simply can't be arsed and would prefer to live their sad little lives twisted in jealously and bitterness?

Anyway, off to the game.... UTS

 

I am not sniping at anybody - the thread asked me to vote. Both the Trust and SISA are irrelevant and always have been. If you stand up and pretend you are the 'messenger' for the fans there will only ever be one result and that is even if you take a moderate and considered stance. The Trust and SISA are not renowned for that hence the ridicule.

[The Kraken]

I was told that Chorley and one other tried to speak but got shouted down, the so called meeting lasted all of 3 mins.

 

Being as the Echo fully promoted this whole get together, I can only assume (and hope) that they will continue their balanced reporting by including a full report of the entire meeting both in tomorrow's Sports Echo and also Monday's Echo. Fair and balanced reporting, and all that.

 

Actually, if anyone was there for the apparent fiasco it would be nice if they could drop the Echo an email and report on what actually happened.

[whoateallthepies]

A good post Noodles and sums things up for me.

I don't personaly know any of the Saints Trust or SISA. Some of what they say I agree with, some I don't. But they are a bunch of fans who have been prepared to come out from behind their keyboards and actively do something, and for that they get a shed load of abuse from warriors on here.

 

When we set up the Saints Trust we were careful to make sure that we only ever claimed to speak on behalf of our membership; not supporters in general. We sought our members opinions and based our positions on that. Obviously we also had our own opinions too and we agreed to be interviewed by the Echo as long as they made it clear if they were seeking our opinion as individuals or as the Saints Trust, representing our members' opinions. That didn't stop keyboard activists slagging us off on a regular basis; but they were entitled to their opinion, no matter how ignorant of the facts or misguided. The Saints Trust has effectively ceased to be now and Nick should really do the decent thing and finish it off for good; will it come back in another guise? I hope so; and more successfully would be good. Even if it is just to annoy Stu in Romsey.

[Viking Warrior]

Noodles I respect your post and would happy to say how I feel about them to their face. and in the past I have.

I do not like what they stand for (SISA) that is and have personnaly been subjected to threats years ago (Early Lowe days)

I have also been on the same forum as chorley at the city hall putting the pro st mary's motion forward.

As for Nick some thing have riled me about him but I have seen him first hand when Chorley and Mcmillan were a nuisance at one of lowes fans forum at the dell. shouting down all the other support groups present.

 

SISA and the trust are an irrelevance now. Time to move on and get behind the club not opening old wounds . They should all just disappear. support the saints and stop getting on what ever bandwagon they are on

[SaintRichmond]

Noodles I respect your post and would happy to say how I feel about them to their face. and in the past I have.

I do not like what they stand for (SISA) that is and have personnaly been subjected to threats years ago (Early Lowe days)

I have also been on the same forum as chorley at the city hall putting the pro st mary's motion forward.

As for Nick some thing have riled me about him but I have seen him first hand when Chorley and Mcmillan were a nuisance at one of lowes fans forum at the dell. shouting down all the other support groups present.

 

SISA and the trust are an irrelevance now. Time to move on and get behind the club not opening old wounds . They should all just disappear. support the saints and stop getting on what ever bandwagon they are on

 

But NOT in the eyes of the Daily Wretched, who put them acrossas speaking for US

 

That is what is completely wrong IMHO

[SaintRichmond]

Since when have they said they are the voice of the fans ? Never is the answer

You also seem to have contradicting yourself by declaring a closed forum with just 500 votes as the entire fanbase quoting 4%

 

Is that a fact ???

 

Then WHY does the Daily Wretched put them across exactly as that, instead of ie, " A few words from Nick Illingsworth, long time Saints attendee, talking on behalf of himself ""

[Noodles34]

Is that a fact ???

 

Then WHY does the Daily Wretched put them across exactly as that, instead of ie, " A few words from Nick Illingsworth, long time Saints attendee, talking on behalf of himself ""

 

thats hardly nick's fault then.

[Noodles34]

Noodles I respect your post and would happy to say how I feel about them to their face. and in the past I have.

I do not like what they stand for (SISA) that is and have personnaly been subjected to threats years ago (Early Lowe days)

I have also been on the same forum as chorley at the city hall putting the pro st mary's motion forward.

As for Nick some thing have riled me about him but I have seen him first hand when Chorley and Mcmillan were a nuisance at one of lowes fans forum at the dell. shouting down all the other support groups present.

 

SISA and the trust are an irrelevance now. Time to move on and get behind the club not opening old wounds . They should all just disappear. support the saints and stop getting on what ever bandwagon they are on

 

Fair enough answer, one that actaully puts some substance behind a grievance rather than NI is a **** etc........

[CB Fry]

No, but even though its a small sample, getting a 96% to 4% result is compelling.

 

 

Actually, 600 isn't a small sample really. Most national opinion polls would be happy with a snapshot of about 1,000. Granted the 600 are self-selecting, but this is hardly a forum of homogeneous opinion and agreement so it's as broad as you could expect.

 

So it's a relatively robust result, all told.

[Matthew Le God]

Some shampoos advertise using results of a sample with 40 people.

[dubai_phil]

Out of interest, how many members here have actually taken the time to contact the Echo on a topic of relevance to the club?

 

Not the forum section so much but to actually make a more formalised comment?

 

I think many of us use TSW as as outlet for our feelings and opinions, sometimes we are off target sometimes the debate and opinions expressed here serve a purpose and you can actually see a slight swing in sentiment.

 

So, (while not happy with the way The Trust & SISA are IMPLIED by the media to speak "on our behalf") who's actually done any speaking?

 

Some have mentioned they have done, but what is there to actually "comment" about on a regular basis as opposed to being a rent a quote name in lights seeker?