Do SISA or The Trust speak for you, yes or no

[Block 5]

No.

Nineteen Canteen speaks for me.

Oh.....

[Thedelldays]

you can be vice chairman and spokesman, you could start every comment with "in all my time travelling the world, i've never known a club too do xxxxxxxx"

I would..but my duties as head of the Southwest Saints Supporters Trust come first...

 

I will write into the echo soon enough claiming this title and will now assume I will have the little "fans chief" image next to my comments...

 

(we shall see)

[dune]

I don't know off the top of my head (we have published the numbers in the last year though.). It's irrelevant, really. The Echo website has far more registered users than this forum does. Does that make it a better gauge of fan's opinion? I don't think it does. It's just different.

 

I'm referring to the numbers of fans who are members of:

 

a) SISA

 

b) The Saints Trust

 

Do you have these numbers?

 

I ask this because you refer to them as fans groups (or words to that effect).

Edited 16 September, 2010 by dune

[The Kraken]

Danny, as you requested I just emailed a response to you on SISA's article.

 

I think its fair to say we will continue to disagree with each other relating to the standing I believe the Echo encourages with SISA and Saints Trust. Yes, I accept that you do some of the things that I referred to. And I very much welcome those. The fans' piece today is a point in case; it gives a substantial amount of space to one person's opinion, and I think it is a good thing. But I think it almost reinforces my point; alot of what you print from SISA are not shown for the individual opinions that they are; they are labelled under the SISA banner and therefore appear as the common thinking of a supporter association. As you yourself point out, they are "relatively small organisations", so does the Echo not have a duty to outline just how significant or otherwise these supporters groups are? You're right that when people see Fans Chief they assume all fans, so with that in mind surely there's a duty to correct that?

 

You mention polls and that you use them, but then say that they are seldom used as a story in their own right. But I'd question that, and say that the results of a poll are much, much more important than a written opinion piece by any one person. The poll indicates the overall thinking of a cross section of the fanbase. I don't understand why it would be so seldom used.

[Turkish]

I would..but my duties as head of the Southwest Saints Supporters Trust come first...

 

I will write into the echo soon enough claiming this title and will now assume I will have the little "fans chief" image next to my comments...

 

(we shall see)

 

i want that next to my name when they quote me in the echo, I also want to refer to me as Leader of ISSA and fans Chief, using the name Chief Great Red Hawk. As i am leader of the group of one. (at the moment) numbers of members appear to be irelevant.

[Thedelldays]

seriously...how do they know if SISA are actually a fans group...do they check or just happy to print it..?

and the trust..?

[Turkish]

seriously...how do they know if SISA are actually a fans group...do they check or just happy to print it..?

and the trust..?

 

I think SISA called for a meeting with the echo, to confrim that they are indeed a fans group and not attention and publicity seekers.

[dune]

I hope NC realises that SISA and The Saints Trust are completely irrelevent.

[Dr Who?]

No way they are morons!

[Danny]

Danny, as you requested I just emailed a response to you on SISA's article.

 

I think its fair to say we will continue to disagree with each other relating to the standing I believe the Echo encourages with SISA and Saints Trust. Yes, I accept that you do some of the things that I referred to. And I very much welcome those. The fans' piece today is a point in case; it gives a substantial amount of space to one person's opinion, and I think it is a good thing. But I think it almost reinforces my point; alot of what you print from SISA are not shown for the individual opinions that they are; they are labelled under the SISA banner and therefore appear as the common thinking of a supporter association. As you yourself point out, they are "relatively small organisations", so does the Echo not have a duty to outline just how significant or otherwise these supporters groups are? You're right that when people see Fans Chief they assume all fans, so with that in mind surely there's a duty to correct that?

 

You mention polls and that you use them, but then say that they are seldom used as a story in their own right. But I'd question that, and say that the results of a poll are much, much more important than a written opinion piece by any one person. The poll indicates the overall thinking of a cross section of the fanbase. I don't understand why it would be so seldom used.

 

The reason they are seldom used in their own right as the basis of a story is that there are other things that need the space in the paper such as a match report, match reaction etc. It's much more efficient to use them as part of a related story rather than an entire story themselves. The polls are also quite obvious online, so it is not necessarily the best use of my time to write an article about something readers can clearly see for themselves, although I'm willing to try it should there be an appetite amongst readers.

 

As for correcting the reading that fans means all fans, that's what why we say exactly who they are. As for the earlier suggestion of just naming them rather than giving them a title, the title places them in context. For example, the inclusion of the word SISA has instantly made many on here know exactly who you are talking about (and also why I assume there has been no comment on the other fan's comment in the paper - he is not a person known in wider circles as I assume he has no affiliation to any groups. Had he been a member of the Trust, SISA, whatever, I imagine his comment would have garnered a lot more attention.

 

All readers have their opinions on these groups - by attaching the titles, we give them the information to form their own judgement on what they make of what is being said - they may not know the names of the individuals, but they recognise the groups.

 

Right I promise to leave this well alone now as I'm still in the office and really have to get home!

[The Kraken]

The reason they are seldom used in their own right as the basis of a story is that there are other things that need the space in the paper such as a match report, match reaction etc. It's much more efficient to use them as part of a related story rather than an entire story themselves. The polls are also quite obvious online, so it is not necessarily the best use of my time to write an article about something readers can clearly see for themselves, although I'm willing to try it should there be an appetite amongst readers.

 

As for correcting the reading that fans means all fans, that's what why we say exactly who they are. As for the earlier suggestion of just naming them rather than giving them a title, the title places them in context. For example, the inclusion of the word SISA has instantly made many on here know exactly who you are talking about (and also why I assume there has been no comment on the other fan's comment in the paper - he is not a person known in wider circles as I assume he has no affiliation to any groups. Had he been a member of the Trust, SISA, whatever, I imagine his comment would have garnered a lot more attention.

 

All readers have their opinions on these groups - by attaching the titles, we give them the information to form their own judgement on what they make of what is being said - they may not know the names of the individuals, but they recognise the groups.

 

Right I promise to leave this well alone now as I'm still in the office and really have to get home!

 

Appreciate it. I think it fair to say we probably won't ever agree on the SISA promotion/clarification, but hats off to you for taking the time to come on here and explain your point of view.

[ottery st mary]

I am the head of the southwest saints supporters trust...our mandate is the following...

 

To meet every month for pasties and cider

wear red and white stripes to the local rectory for the tombola nights

take it in turns to call the numbers at bingo

discuss saints and plan our annual trip to watch a game live

 

when I mail you my number..I assume you will now attach "fans chief" to my comments..?????

you have no idea if my organisation exists or even if it is legit...much can probably be said of SISA nowadays

 

 

The Sidmouth/Ottery St Mary/Honiton Saints supporters Trust would like to join your trust...Sounds so much more fun..

 

Where do I sign...

 

 

I am definitely a No in answer to the question......

 

How dare they speak for me.. I am a saints web forum kind of girl...

#

 

 

 

WIFM

[Michelle]

Well that's pretty conclusive!

[70's Mike]

I hope NC realises that SISA and The Saints Trust are completely irrelevent.

 

whilst you and i know that, a few more poor results and they will gain support from the less well informed

[wagon 84]

Why don't you all go to the meeting on Saturday? Northam Social club 1.30pm.

Then perhaps you could give your opinions there, the horses mouth so to speak.

Or you could carry on here, which is totally pointless.

[The Kraken]

Why don't you all go to the meeting on Saturday? Northam Social club 1.30pm.

Then perhaps you could give your opinions there, the horses mouth so to speak.

Or you could carry on here, which is totally pointless.

 

What's the point. Considering SISA are supposed to be a supporters' association, the meeting is happening 3 days too late. Surely the point of a meeting should be to correlate members opinions, and then construct a response from that? That hasn't happened. The official direction of SISA has been pre-determined already and a statement issued to that effect. Any discussions would only be as to the rights and wrongs of issuing that statement, so it would be like trying to lock the stable door after the horse has bolted.

 

Seems a strange way to operate an "open" supporters association to me.

[whiteleySaint30]

no, they are *ankers. Simples!

[dune]

Why don't you all go to the meeting on Saturday? Northam Social club 1.30pm.

Then perhaps you could give your opinions there, the horses mouth so to speak.

Or you could carry on here, which is totally pointless.

 

What is there to discuss? They are nothing and their meeting is nothing.

[simonsaints1]

I atteneded a number of SISA meetings and they campaigned on a number of issues on behalf of fans, for example the Archers being given to Saints fans-remember how galling it was being outsung by away fans for the brief period away fans had it.I'm not saying only SISA were instrumental in the Archers being ior us but they campaigned for that among other issues.

 

So yes, for me, SISA and other fans groups do a lot of good on behalf of many of us who don't stick our heads above the parapet and just snipe behind their keyboard.

 

If some of you clearly feel so strongly, go up to some of these "spokesman" and tell them directly how you feel..

[st alex]

I'm sure that on many subjects my views would be similar to SISA or the Saints Trust and on others they might differ. Its still interesting to hear someone else's variation on a subject, coming from a slightly different perspective, I tend to keep an open mind on most things and no doubt that even if another fans organisation were to be put together I would still agree with some views and disagree with others, judging from this forum I don't agree with half the posters who seem to have almost bigoted opinions on matters.

[Viking Warrior]

When that mong Illinsworth was on telly they other night I just let out a tirade abuse. Niether he or sisa are representative of the majority of saints fans

let a;lone mine .If either the trust or sisa has taken over the club as their pathetic views would suggest then the saints fans base would have been even more divided than ever.

[1976_Child]

SISA? They are about as relevant to me as Portsmouth Football Club.

 

That egotistical kn0bhead who runs it needs to shut the f u ck up.

 

SISA is nothing, it is bull****, it is history.

[dubai_phil]

I respect Nick's rights to be interviewed as a "typical Saints fan" I also respect his right to comment as a spokesperson for The Saints Trust, SISA, Camra or any other body.

 

However I do NOT like the way he "positions" himself as a spokesperson for Saints fans.

 

He does not have a consituency, I did not vote for him....

 

 

Ah but then I suppose that's Brit Politics, one person voted for him so he can do what he likes.

 

Seriously We need a different organisation, these SISA & Trusts are mired in some weird Tooting Liberation Front/Land of The Committee time warp from the 70's

 

Not in my name Nick.

[1976_Child]

I respect Nick's rights to be interviewed as a "typical Saints fan" I also respect his right to comment as a spokesperson for The Saints Trust, SISA, Camra or any other body.

 

However I do NOT like the way he "positions" himself as a spokesperson for Saints fans.

 

He does not have a consituency, I did not vote for him....

 

 

Ah but then I suppose that's Brit Politics, one person voted for him so he can do what he likes.

 

Seriously We need a different organisation, these SISA & Trusts are mired in some weird Tooting Liberation Front/Land of The Committee time warp from the 70's

 

Not in my name Nick.

 

Illingsworth has always cared more about himself than the club. He is an egotistical ar-se-h0-le of the biggest order. He has no constituency. He only has a few phone numbers of hacks at Solent etc which give him the appearance of speaking for us all. He is a nobody. A joke.

[MarkSFC]

Affiliating myself to SISA or having the suggestion that they represent my viewpoint on Saints is like saying my political views and affiliation is that of the BNP. In other words they are in my opinion a nasty blight on our club and our fanbase. Their tactics are always confrontational, egotistical and self-serving. They have strong beliefs which manifest themselves in the wrong way.

 

The Echo let's itself and it's readers down everytine it gives the association lines in it's paper. Of course it's their choice what they publish but maybe they should realise in reality there is no official Saints supporters group. The Internet has changed that.

 

This forum, SISA, the Trust and others are littered with people who in bygone tears have either had some sort of local fame and or some inside track to Saints, and or felt like they were somehow more worthy than most fans.

 

It seems to me that under the new owners and boss all the aforementioned "perks" and or "kudos" has disappeared. Because of this the slightest little difference of opinion is made out to be something much more serious or sinister.

 

To cover something from that article in the echo if I recall correctly, fans are not entitled to know who owns us. The company is a privately owned business. The clues in the title! As a customer either buy the product or go elsewhere. If your emotional attachment prevents this then form a group get a few thousand of the customer base, sign a petition or hold a rally or something similar. If indeed thousands upon thousands feel the same (ie the majority) then fair enough, your petition will speak for the fans.

 

Holding a meeting in a small pub with your mates hardly constitutes collating the view of the fans.

[St_Tel49]

Give us some numbers.

 

It is up to SISA - not Danny - to give numbers. How accurate those numbers would be I could not possibly comment on.

[saintjay77]

I am the head of the southwest saints supporters trust...our mandate is the following...

 

To meet every month for pasties and cider

wear red and white stripes to the local rectory for the tombola nights

take it in turns to call the numbers at bingo

discuss saints and plan our annual trip to watch a game live

 

when I mail you my number..I assume you will now attach "fans chief" to my comments..?????

you have no idea if my organisation exists or even if it is legit...much can probably be said of SISA nowadays

 

Can I join chief?

 

Seriously though, thanks to Danny for explaining the echo's side of things on this and if your trying to stay ballenced then fair play. It may not be all about what the echo print though. Maybe more about a few people that claim to represent the fanbase talking tripe at any given opportunity. I have heard nick illingsworth go on about stuff that I think I know more about and I wouldn't dream of putting myself forward to represent anyone other than myself.

 

The echo might get some flack for giving SISA and NI page space but it's what they say that gets our backs up more. Maybe you could print the results of this poll in response to what some of this forums members think of these groups that claim to represent us now?

 

And please try not to use to many big words on this forum as there are only a few that can read them let alone know what they mean!!

[simonsaints1]

Ok quick question.

 

All media outlets, Sky, BBC the Echo etc etc, will always seek to canvass the views of fans on a particular issue.

 

On most occasions,not always, i have agreed with the points of views of those asked.

 

I don't ever recall any members of SISA, Illingsworth or whoever, begin their interview by saying...

 

"before i start, can i just say i speak on behalf of Saints fans"

That's because they don't so chill out.

 

So, who do the media ask when they want an opinion from fans

-The media quite rightly, don't always want the party line.

 

I don't recall similar organisations from other clubs getting such abuse when they are interviewed.

 

Just a thought.

[dune]

Ok quick question.

 

All media outlets, Sky, BBC the Echo etc etc, will always seek to canvass the views of fans on a particular issue.

 

On most occasions,not always, i have agreed with the points of views of those asked.

 

I don't ever recall any members of SISA, Illingsworth or whoever, begin their interview by saying...

 

"before i start, can i just say i speak on behalf of Saints fans"

That's because they don't so chill out.

 

So, who do the media ask when they want an opinion from fans

-The media quite rightly, don't always want the party line.

 

I don't recall similar organisations from other clubs getting such abuse when they are interviewed.

 

Just a thought.

 

The problem is the titles and flunkery.

 

"Chairman of the Saints Trust"

 

"Chairman of SISA"

 

Both fans groups don't exist any more. They have absoutely no right to use titles to re-inforce their views. That is the issue I have.

[trousers]

 

I don't ever recall any members of SISA, Illingsworth or whoever, begin their interview by saying...

 

"before i start, can i just say i speak on behalf of Saints fans"

That's because they don't so chill out.

 

As previously mentioned, it's all about perception rather overt statements.

 

I've often heard media outlets (e.g. SKY) refer to Nick (for example) as "saints fan spokesman" or words to that effect but never heard him start his responses with: "thanks for the intro but just to clarify that I'm not speaking on behalf of most saints fans...."

 

It works both ways.

[Wes Tender]

Hi Danny,

 

Thanks for taking the time to explain the mechanics.

 

I'm what you might call a middle of the road Saints fan - in other words I tend to see both sides of any discussion point (or, as my wife calls it: 'sitting on the fence'!

 

I hear what you say about 'SISA' or the 'Saints Trust' being treated the same as any Saints fan who declares an interest in making their views available for media publication but the point people are making about these 'organisations' are that your average reader WILL attribute a significant element of gravitas to the views being portrayed by such an 'organisation' as it is human nature to see an acronym and or name of a group and make the logical leap that they are formally representing a significant number of fans.

 

I can believe it when you say that the Echo don't overtly set out to raise the profile of these so called organisations when you represent them in an article but it's all about public perception and when the public see an article quoting these organisations they will perceive them to be officially recognised institutions whether you set out to portray that or not.

 

Perhaps the best thing to do for balance is to print a footnote at the bottom of any fan initiated article with a one liner along the lines of: organisation 'x' has 'n' members so that people can clearly see how many people then purport to represent.

 

Just a view from a fence sitter!

 

 

Spot on. The acronym SISA is often printed in its full form and so the impression given to readers is that the opinions printed are those of a spokesperson representing a large body of fans. Their opinion is therefore perceived to carry more weight than one offered up by other individuals. I call on the Echo to drop the SISA part associated with the opinion and just use the individual's name until SISA become a more democratic organisation with a much more significant number of members.

[trousers]

The echo might get some flack for giving SISA and NI page space but it's what they say that gets our backs up more. Maybe you could print the results of this poll in response to what some of this forums members think of these groups that claim to represent us now?

 

Over to you Danny....

[trousers]

Spot on. The acronym SISA is often printed in its full form and so the impression given to readers is that the opinions printed are those of a spokesperson representing a large body of fans. Their opinion is therefore perceived to carry more weight than one offered up by other individuals. I call on the Echo to drop the SISA part associated with the opinion and just use the individual's name until SISA become a more democratic organisation with a much more significant number of members.

 

Indeed. And who's to say that these kind of reports don't filter through to the Liebherr family who may get the false impression that a 'significant' fan organisation is unhappy with their levels of intervention....?

 

Whilst I'm sure Cortese will be filling in the gaps for them it could still sow seeds of doubt in their minds as to whether they want the hassle of dealing with what they may perceive to be a bigger groundswell of negative opinion that is actually the case.

 

Straws and camels...

[trousers]

It is up to SISA - not Danny - to give numbers.

 

Ultimately, yes. But if I was running a newspaper I'd want to satisfy myself too and share that with my readers.

[Wes Tender]

I atteneded a number of SISA meetings and they campaigned on a number of issues on behalf of fans, for example the Archers being given to Saints fans-remember how galling it was being outsung by away fans for the brief period away fans had it.I'm not saying only SISA were instrumental in the Archers being ior us but they campaigned for that among other issues.

 

So yes, for me, SISA and other fans groups do a lot of good on behalf of many of us who don't stick our heads above the parapet and just snipe behind their keyboard.

 

If some of you clearly feel so strongly, go up to some of these "spokesman" and tell them directly how you feel..

 

Why should we bother to take the time? No guarantee that the opinions expressed will alter to reflect the views of other ordinary fans. The much better and more effective route is to tell the Echo and other media that these people do not represent the views of the ordinary fans because they have not been democratically elected by a substantial number of us to be our spokesmen.

 

This is the whole point of this thread.

[Toomer]

You can bet your bottom dollar that Chorley & Co will have a few hangers on there tomorrow who will hang on every word they say and be pro active enough to wind up the rest of the onlookers in the Northam Club tomorrow.

[dune]

You can bet your bottom dollar that Chorley & Co will have a few hangers on there tomorrow who will hang on every word they say and be pro active enough to wind up the rest of the onlookers in the Northam Club tomorrow.

 

I don't doubt this, but I do not believe there is a hunger for any action amongst the fanbase at large, save for a few oddball millitant commie types. With this in mind I can envisage such an event having the potential to turn a bit nasty.

[SaintRichmond]

You have to be prepared to offer opinions too. More often than not they contact they paper, rather than the other way around, but once you become known as often being available and able to speak your mind, then you'll be in the paper and you'll be considered someone worth calling for opinions when the need arises.

 

Send me your number now along with the dates you're back, to make sure neither of us forgets.

 

 

Dear Danny

 

You are intelligent, so you obviously know that these people in no way speak for the vast majority of FANS

 

It is all very well to alluding that everyone having an equal right to Free Speech etc, we ALL know that

 

But, to anyone coming in from Planet Zog, reading the Echo, WOULD get the immediate impression that SISA/ Trust ARE the Fans mouthpeice, and I am equally certain that you are intelligent enough to KNOW that

 

If you were to put at the top of each of their Statements, the fact that "the Echo would like to make clear that this is a view held by a Minority", then fair enough

 

But you don't and won't will you ?, because it would not sell so many hard copies would it

 

Yet another reason why the Echo is BAD journalism IMHO

 

PS. Any inference that Echo readers come from Planet Zog, is purely accidental

[SaintRichmond]

Indeed. And who's to say that these kind of reports don't filter through to the Liebherr family who may get the false impression that a 'significant' fan organisation is unhappy with their levels of intervention....?

 

Whilst I'm sure Cortese will be filling in the gaps for them it could still sow seeds of doubt in their minds as to whether they want the hassle of dealing with what they may perceive to be a bigger groundswell of negative opinion that is actually the case.

 

Straws and camels...

 

As deliberately nurtured by the Echo

 

I bet they would love the scoop if the Leibherrs believed all the SISA Sh*t

 

BAD BAD Journalism

[Thedelldays]

People should write into the echo about this... I have

 

Here..... dan.kerins@dailyecho.co.uk

[Dellman]

Excuse my ignorance but I live in Sherborne Dorset and never see the Echo, why is it that the local paper seems to be so opposed to the local Club,campaigns against it and gives space to unrepresentative critics, what's going on?

[Topcat]

Excuse my ignorance but I live in Sherborne Dorset and never see the Echo, why is it that the local paper seems to be so opposed to the local Club,campaigns against it and gives space to unrepresentative critics, what's going on?

 

Are you aware that we have lost our last 5 games?

[yorkiesaint]

This poll is a very poorly worded question, regardless of your views, you are likely to answer no. Can you think of anyone or any entity that 'speaks for you'? Maybe a trade union but that's about it, and half the time they seem batty as hell. So unless you have some input into the views of SISA then you will answer no. Some alternatives:

 

Are the views of SISA representative of the fan base as a whole?

 

Do you support the actions of SISA in giving a voice to Saints fans in the media?

[trousers]

This poll is a very poorly worded question, regardless of your views, you are likely to answer no. Can you think of anyone or any entity that 'speaks for you'? Maybe a trade union but that's about it, and half the time they seem batty as hell. So unless you have some input into the views of SISA then you will answer no. Some alternatives:

 

Are the views of SISA representative of the fan base as a whole?

 

Do you support the actions of SISA in giving a voice to Saints fans in the media?

 

Fair point, although I would venture that the result would be fairly similar to what it is now

[SaintRichmond]

Excuse my ignorance but I live in Sherborne Dorset and never see the Echo, why is it that the local paper seems to be so opposed to the local Club,campaigns against it and gives space to unrepresentative critics, what's going on?[/QUOTE]

 

You have got the gist perfectly

 

I mean, anyone would think that "The Daily Wretched" had a "Hidden Agenda" against SFC

 

IMHO, it is the fact that they are SO blatently witch hunting, that has turned many against them

 

ALL journalists are out for a Sensational Scoop

 

The "Wretched" are very good at it, it is the ONLY thing they are "good" at

 

Their Motto ??? "Why tell the real Facts, when you can simply distort the facts to sow seeds of doubt"

 

And, to cap it all, the Bl**dy Ink rubs off

[yorkiesaint]

Fair point, although I would venture that the result would be fairly similar to what it is now

 

You are probably right, but many are probably influenced by constant anti-SISA vitriol on this site, rather than their own experience.

[Marsdinho]

Im amazed that there are 15 people out there that said yes.

 

On second thoughts, those are probably the Skates / B'muff fans on the wind up.

[yorkiesaint]

Excuse my ignorance but I live in Sherborne Dorset and never see the Echo, why is it that the local paper seems to be so opposed to the local Club,campaigns against it and gives space to unrepresentative critics, what's going on?[/QUOTE]

 

You have got the gist perfectly

 

I mean, anyone would think that "The Daily Wretched" had a "Hidden Agenda" against SFC

 

IMHO, it is the fact that they are SO blatently witch hunting, that has turned many against them

 

ALL journalists are out for a Sensational Scoop

 

The "Wretched" are very good at it, it is the ONLY thing they are "good" at

 

Their Motto ??? "Why tell the real Facts, when you can simply distort the facts to sow seeds of doubt"

 

And, to cap it all, the Bl**dy Ink rubs off

 

FFS, you could be describing any of the print media here, we all know what to expect from the media and work within those expectations. The point is that Cortese has made an error of judgement by alienating the echo and other media and has been getting the inevitable results. His trip to the Sun shows that he realises this and is trying to repair the damage. His problem is that negative reports in the media encourage others to think negatively about him, and this in turn means that people can get away with gratuitous Cortese bashing in the media more generally.

[notnowcato]

As a Saints fan (man and boy) my sympathies are still with the family of Marcus following his sad death. I am utterly appalled that any group would demand anything from his family when his passing will still be so raw to them. Who do they think they are? Actions like this only further dissassociates them from being a representative of myself or as it seems most Saints fans.

 

NNC

BN3 Saints

"Keep Calm and Carry On"

[Wurzel]

To the original question, in the words of Simon Cowell "100% NO"