Everybody out.....

[saint lard]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11278570

 

Quelle surprise.

On a personal level,i find Bob Crowe nauseating.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtn8oAMsvSE

Edited 13 September, 2010 by saint lard

[Weston Super Saint]

Yep, these guys really are retarded.

 

The public sector is finally catching up with the private sector and realised that during a recession you need to cut costs, which is done by reducing the 'fat' from the workforce, either by job losses and or pay freezes. Hands up, who's had a pay rise in the last three years, not me that's for sure, but I consider myself lucky to have a job at all!

 

Besides, I would imagine that the majority of the job losses will be soaked up by voluntary redundancies and early retirement packages.

 

Sadly, these retards will never understand how it works in the real world, so they will all go out on strike and cause a whole lot of upset for a whole lot of people.

[bridge too far]

From the analysis (in the BBC link) by the BBC's political correspondent, Ben Wright@

 

So talk of a new winter of discontent may be wide of the mark, not least because secondary picketing is now illegal. But also because union leaders like Barber will be very wary about embarking on strike action that hits the users of public services hard and risks turning their members into villains.

 

But the media always like to trot out the old 'Winter of Discontent' mantra.

[dune]

Those of us in the private sector have had to stomach pay freezes etc and got on with it. Why is it that public sector workers think they are special?

[aintforever]

I think the government should not budge an inch over this, there would be very little public support for strikes as most people in the private sector have had to work harder for the same or less money.

[bridge too far]

I think the government should not budge an inch over this, there would be very little public support for strikes as most people in the private sector have had to work harder for the same or less money.

 

I'm not so sure. It's not to do with job cuts or wage freezes. A lot of people, whether in the public or private sector, are set to be disadvantaged by cuts in public spending. Many services that we all rely on may be significantly downsized / privatised / withdrawn altogether.

[dune]

I'm not so sure. It's not to do with job cuts or wage freezes. A lot of people, whether in the public or private sector, are set to be disadvantaged by cuts in public spending. Many services that we all rely on may be significantly downsized / privatised / withdrawn altogether.

 

The more privatisations the better.

[aintforever]

I'm not so sure. It's not to do with job cuts or wage freezes. A lot of people, whether in the public or private sector, are set to be disadvantaged by cuts in public spending. Many services that we all rely on may be significantly downsized / privatised / withdrawn altogether.

 

Public services WILL get worse, there is no way of avoiding that. Schools will be worse, the Police force will be smaller, you will have to wait longer for an operation on the NHS and our armed services will be cut. That's how we're going to pay back Labour's debt.

[bridge too far]

Public services WILL get worse, there is no way of avoiding that. Schools will be worse, the Police force will be smaller, you will have to wait longer for an operation on the NHS and our armed services will be cut. That's how we're going to pay back Labour's debt.

 

Err the country's debt, I think you'll find, brought about to a great degree by irresponsible bankers and other financial institutions.

 

Many respected economists are of the opinion that it is best to spend (and certainly not cut) our way to recovery. I'm inclined to support this view.

[Robsk II]

It's fairly generally understood, as BTF says, that spending is the thing to stimulate economies. In the end, no matter what happens, money is what makes the system move and speed up.

[rocknrollman no2]

Same old Tories doing what they do best,cutting back on the public sector.

Seems a great idea to sack thousands of workers who were contributing by paying taxes and national insurance,but who now will all draw dole,costing the country even more.Also the fact that there will be thousands less police on our streets because of these stupid cuts, will almost certainly add to the crime figures.Add to that less binmen,council workers,nurses etc and you have a recipe for disaster. Privatising the public sector,that just means workers get paid less,workforce is cut and the ministers responsible for privatising the different sectors,suddenly get jobs on the board of directors when they give up politics.

Dont believe this Tory spin.Yes we are in debt and yes things are not good,but we owed a lot more after the war and yet the Labour government built the NHS.This proves the Con dem government are wrong.

[solentstars]

Err the country's debt, I think you'll find, brought about to a great degree by irresponsible bankers and other financial institutions.

 

Many respected economists are of the opinion that it is best to spend (and certainly not cut) our way to recovery. I'm inclined to support this view.

 

at last the bankers who pay the tory party get a mention unlike the usual die hard torys who blame everyone else bar the fatcats.

[alpine_saint]

Yep, back to the bad old days. Let's F**k Britian up. Bin bags piled head high, rats running around the streets, eating cold baked beans over candlelight all over again. And being goaded into it by the most stupid cow ever to grace British politics today...

 

Theres already no manufacturing industry to lead Britian out of recession due to these bunch of w*nkers and their predecessors.

 

After WW2, British car engineers from the likes of Austin got the fledgling factories of Toyota and Volkswagen up and running so that the smashed Japanese and German economies could have a sound base for recovery. Now we are the basket case of the West.

 

I am so f**king glad I left. The nation where policemen stand by the side of the lake and let kids drown, ambulancemen sit on the kerb outside houses whilst the residents fade away after heart attacks, overpaid politically-correct b*tches wave around pie charts trying to absolve themselves of blame in the aftermath of the murder of a 17month old babies despite 60 visits from social workers, and soliders having limbs blown off are having p45s prepared for them before they get home.

 

But WTF, let's have Dave Prentis, Brendan Barber and Bob Crow feeling their oats and getting their 15 minutes of Scargil-like fame.

 

Total perversion of why the Tollpuddle Martyrs did their thing...

[CB Saint]

Same old Tories doing what they do best,cutting back on the public sector.

Seems a great idea to sack thousands of workers who were contributing by paying taxes and national insurance,but who now will all draw dole,costing the country even more.Also the fact that there will be thousands less police on our streets because of these stupid cuts, will almost certainly add to the crime figures.Add to that less binmen,council workers,nurses etc and you have a recipe for disaster. Privatising the public sector,that just means workers get paid less,workforce is cut and the ministers responsible for privatising the different sectors,suddenly get jobs on the board of directors when they give up politics.

Dont believe this Tory spin.Yes we are in debt and yes things are not good,but we owed a lot more after the war and yet the Labour government built the NHS.This proves the Con dem government are wrong.

 

Thats not strictly true. The tax and NI that public sector workers pay to the treasury was originally paid to the public sector worker by the treasury in the first place. Their net pay is likely to be greater than the dole they would get so the country would be better off. Actually this is rather simplistic and doesn't take into account the effect of the money earnt by public sector workers being spent.

 

Re the unions, its interesting watching Barber trying to play down the hard liners such as Crowe et al. Barber is actually a very smart cookie and knows full well that the public are very sensitve to union action - just ask Bassa.

[aintforever]

Err the country's debt, I think you'll find, brought about to a great degree by irresponsible bankers and other financial institutions.

 

Many respected economists are of the opinion that it is best to spend (and certainly not cut) our way to recovery. I'm inclined to support this view.

 

I don't think have a bloated, inefficient public sector is the best way to spend our way out. Better off trim down public spending to the bare minimum and spending money encouraging new business and helping struggling small businesses.

[CB Saint]

Err the country's debt, I think you'll find, brought about to a great degree by irresponsible bankers and other financial institutions.

 

Many respected economists are of the opinion that it is best to spend (and certainly not cut) our way to recovery. I'm inclined to support this view.

 

Trouble is just as many respected economists believe that cuts are needed. That what makes the current eceomic situation scary. No one has a clue. Only time will tell who was right - Tory or Labour.

[bridge too far]

I don't think have a bloated, inefficient public sector is the best way to spend our way out. Better off trim down public spending to the bare minimum and spending money encouraging new business and helping struggling small businesses.

 

Many of whom will lose out big style when public sector supply and service contracts are cancelled.

[Trader]

Err the country's debt, I think you'll find, brought about to a great degree by irresponsible bankers and other financial institutions.

 

Many respected economists are of the opinion that it is best to spend (and certainly not cut) our way to recovery. I'm inclined to support this view.

 

I've been p*ssing money up against the wall for years now - I can't understand why I'm not a millionaire.

 

It's not rocket science.

[Johnny Bognor]

I've been p*ssing money up against the wall for years now - I can't understand why I'm not a millionaire.

 

It's not rocket science.

 

No government spending is a solution. What they do is spend the money that they saved during the boom years especially for a rainy day.......oh.

[solentstars]

i think the governments around the world have pumped money into the world economy to save the banking system and avoided a global slump and world depression which would have caused mass unemployment like the 1930s and thankfully we have avoided that.

lets hope the banking system will use sound money and never give money to people who had no chance of paying back in the future.

[Seaford Saint]

Its an interesting question....I am inclined to side with unions now. I would have nationalised the banks when they got in trouble, I am not sure why this was not done. Are tha bankers who are responsible in a large part for the mess we are all in suffering. Do they continue to receive bonuses? I do believe they do.

 

Some one has to fight for the rights of ordinary people.

 

Sorry to say it but capitalism is cruel there has to be something that controls that cruelty, the law doesn't its been relaxed to make unions less effective, MPs don't, who else is going to do it? I see fundamental problems with society coming our way.

[Trader]

No government spending is a solution. What they do is spend the money that they saved during the boom years especially for a rainy day.......oh.

 

Exactly - Gordon Brown economist genius - oh my aching sides!!

 

Did you notice how Mr. Prudent stopped using the 'P' word his the last few years?

 

What a c*ck.

[Trader]

i think the governments around the world have pumped money into the world economy to save the banking system and avoided a global slump and world depression which would have caused mass unemployment like the 1930s and thankfully we have avoided that.

lets hope the banking system will use sound money and never give money to people who had no chance of paying back in the future.

 

If you think it's over you're wrong.

 

It'll get a lot worse yet.

 

The "recovery" is built on sand - it won't last - the real depression is coming - soon!

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

I read today on the BBC that bonuses are back to normal in the financial services industry...all in this together eh!

 

FWIW I'm not in support of industrial action...yet. I believe at the moment it will do more harm than good. I want to wait to see the effects of Osbourne's welfare cuts before we start 'downing tools'.

[Johnny Bognor]

Exactly - Gordon Brown economist genius - oh my aching sides!!

 

Did you notice how Mr. Prudent stopped using the 'P' word his the last few years?

 

What a c*ck.

 

 

I blame both the bankers and the labour government in equal measures.

 

The bankers were criminally negligent as far as I am concerned and those who knew what was being done should be brought to justice, not given £7m penions.

Their lending was irresponsible and the packaging and sale of risky debt is bordering on fraud IMO. The only people to suffer in the Financial Services industry are those at the bottom.... the bank tellers and the admin staff - they weren't to blame but paid the price.

 

As for Labour, the warning signs were there as far back as 2003, but failed to act and failed to put money by. My business banked over 50% of the profits year on year up to the crash, which has more than helped us weather the storm. As competitors followed the G Brown approach to prudence and spunked all the money in the good times, they have since gone to the wall enabling my business to take advantage and pick up work we may never have had.

 

Whilst on the subject of Mr Brown, I hold him personally responsible for lying and misleading the country with his no more boom and bust ********. People were taking out 120% mortgages off the back of the confidence shown by our great leader. He needs to be criminally prosecuted for fraud as do the people approving these mortgages.

 

The lefties only blame the bankers as their precious labour could never be blamed for anything, but as far as I am concerned both are to blame and both should be held accountable.

Edited 13 September, 2010 by Johnny Bognor

[hamster]

I was actually checking some info on our cutbacks within HCC and do the THREE posts that are protected from the recruitemt freeze are; bus escorts (schools), school crossing patrols and one other that escapes me atm. Important roles, granted, but are they as or more important that the person who hoists our loved ones onto the loo or into the bath.

 

I seriously doubt that some posting and reading on here may have ever seen the inside of certain PRIVATE run care homes, yeah privatise away, but karma being karma one might be prudent to be careful what we wish for. Profiting from others misfortune is in many ways immoral but hey, money talks and we are not talking about squeeky clean BUPA establishment.

 

I can only speak of what I know and what I know is that many vulnerable service users are scared, scared of being forgotten in this wave of cuts to easy targets who the bean-counters clearly feel can't or won't kick back. Pleas edon't view these calls to arms as the union leaders rallying to simply save jobs, have a think about what some of these jobs mean to others not just yourself.

[Trader]

Remember though that Brown had ended "boom & bust" for ever with his economic miracle, sold our gold reserves for whatever price he could get as obviously the price of gold was going to tank because it would never be needed as a hedge again.

 

No wonder the bankers were caught up in this logarithmic rise in prosperity for ever, as we all were.

 

Everybody forgot the truth that,s been going on for thousands of years - there are periods of boom and periods of bust.

 

The world has been bust since the year 2000, and will continue to be bust until 2016 at least.

 

We are in a bull rally in a bear market - expect markets to fall by 60% from here before any recovery.

 

The figures from the US are scary.

[dune]

Exactly - Gordon Brown economist genius - oh my aching sides!!

 

Did you notice how Mr. Prudent stopped using the 'P' word his the last few years?

 

What a c*ck.

 

At least he got a good price for the nations centuries old bullion reserves.

[badgerx16]

Those of us in the private sector have had to stomach pay freezes etc and got on with it. Why is it that public sector workers think they are special?

I've taken a £1400 drop this year, and now have freezes for the for at least the next 2, How special am I ?

[trousers]

I blame both the bankers and the labour government in equal measures.

 

The bankers were criminally negligent as far as I am concerned and those who knew what was being done should be brought to justice, not given £7m penions.

Their lending was irresponsible and the packaging and sale of risky debt is bordering on fraud IMO. The only people to suffer in the Financial Services industry are those at the bottom.... the bank tellers and the admin staff - they weren't to blame but paid the price.

 

As for Labour, the warning signs were there as far back as 2003, but failed to act and failed to put money by. My business banked over 50% of the profits year on year up to the crash, which has more than helped us weather the storm. As competitors followed the G Brown approach to prudence and spunked all the money in the good times, they have since gone to the wall enabling my business to take advantage and pick up work we may never have had.

 

Whilst on the subject of Mr Brown, I hold him personally responsible for lying and misleading the country with his no more boom and bust ********. People were taking out 120% mortgages off the back of the confidence shown by our great leader. He needs to be criminally prosecuted for fraud as do the people approving these mortgages.

 

The lefties only blame the bankers as their precious labour could never be blamed for anything, but as far as I am concerned both are to blame and both should be held accountable.

 

Nail. Head.

[hamster]

So, how much exactly do the banks owe us now?

[LGTL]

Who stated that Britain didn't need industry anymore, and that we could survive on "the city" alone, the very city that has played a very large part in this mess. I could find a way to blame Thatcher for anything.

[toofarnorth]

Who stated that Britain didn't need industry anymore, and that we could survive on "the city" alone, the very city that has played a very large part in this mess. I could find a way to blame Thatcher for anything.

 

To be fair even if we were building cars, televisions sets, toasters or whatever it wouldn't matter as there is bugger all global demand and we are a far less competitive nation than the Tiger economies or India, South America etc.

[angelman]

Labour created 850k new public sector jobs (a total of about 6.1m). The government can't afford them, so some jobs have to be lost. Interesting that similar jobs pay 7% better in the public sector (a gap that has doubled since the recession began). I get the feeling that those in the public sector think that there jobs should be safeguarded at the expense of those in the private sector. And then you have the pensions.................................!!!!!!!

 

And as soon as a Union leader starts talking about bankers taking millions home, then you really know that he has an agenda or is stupid or both.

[saint lard]

My ex is qutie high up in the Banking world,she still picks up a bloody huge bonus quarterly.

More than i earn in a years salary,something is still very,very,wrong.

Edited 14 September, 2010 by saint lard

[Mao Cap]

Hope Barber can keep it cool just for the moment and keep the ascendancy over hotheads like Crow (too militant, though he's always seemed like a top guy to me). Sadly, the effect of the cuts and what it will do to the economy will have to be fully seen and experienced before people see through the smokescreen of bullsh*t thrown up by the right-wing media and understand what this new government is really all about.

[pedg]

I would be nice to hope for some middle ground (but without expectation). The unions want no real cuts which is not feasible but on the other hand there are many experts who say that we will have problems with double dip recession, major unrest, etc if the cuts are to large and too fast. Personally I think the speed in which the government are trying to pay off the debt is too fast and would be happier with a longer term plan that did see the eventual reduction in the debt but not done in such a drastic manner.

[solentstars]

i think history will look kinder on brown and his part of saving a worldwide banking collapse and unemployment not reaching the levels of the 1980,s something and

thatcher government did not have to deal with during their 2 recessions.

it was under majors government a revival of economic growth and the beginnings of the Northern Ireland Peace Process,which blairs government inherited.

[solentstars]

I would be nice to hope for some middle ground (but without expectation). The unions want no real cuts which is not feasible but on the other hand there are many experts who say that we will have problems with double dip recession, major unrest, etc if the cuts are to large and too fast. Personally I think the speed in which the government are trying to pay off the debt is too fast and would be happier with a longer term plan that did see the eventual reduction in the debt but not done in such a drastic manner.

 

that sounds like common sense

[pedg]

that sounds like common sense

 

Oh dear, I must not be fully awake yet then!

[thefunkygibbons]

So we had to bail out the banks - fine that may yet cost us money although in the end, we may end making a profit on that deal.

 

No, the fault lies with the politicians, mostly Labour, who do not treat taxpayers' money as if it was there own

 

The pain we are about to feel is because we are spending more on public services than we can afford. The clearest indication of this has been the huge growth in employment in payroll numbers in the public sector over the last ten years.

 

To put it in context, the last labour government was spending £500 million more than it was getting in

 

Not a year

 

Not a month

 

Not a week

 

But every single day

 

And all of that was being borrowed

 

How was it going to be paid back?

 

Either through the whole country going bankrupt (similar to Greece) and having the IMF run the country

 

Or massive tax rises for generations

 

Or the route we are now on, 20% tax increase (which will hurt) and 80% cost cuts in order to get the public sector back to a size we can afford

 

And at the end of the day, this governemt is not cutting the National Debt, it is cutting the deficit, that is, it is slowing down the rate of increase in the National Debt

 

At some point we are going to have making in roads into the debt. It is going to take 15 years to sort this mess out.

 

 

 

I dislike Unions - they do not run the country. If they want to have a say in the public finances, perhaps they should form a political party and campaign in a vote of some sort (perhaps a General Election) and see whether they win. Opps, I think they tried that and see where it got us.

 

They should talk to their Irish comrades and see what real cost cutting measures look like - muppets!

[Mao Cap]

Ah yes, the same Ireland that recently had their credit rating downgraded, despite said cost-cutting measures. Mmm, hasn't worked out too well for them.

[Sour Mash]

Ah yes, the same Ireland that recently had their credit rating downgraded, despite said cost-cutting measures. Mmm, hasn't worked out too well for them.

 

The Irish and UK economies are very, very different. Their economy was hugely over-inflated over the last 10 years and have had a property crash far worse than what has happened here.

[thefunkygibbons]

Agree with that about the Irish, it is a much smaller ecomony and had a bigger property bubble

 

But if they had their credit rating cut after the cost cutting measures, imagine how much worse it would have been without the cuts

[Saint George]

So we had to bail out the banks - fine that may yet cost us money although in the end, we may end making a profit on that deal.

 

No, the fault lies with the politicians, mostly Labour, who do not treat taxpayers' money as if it was there own

 

The pain we are about to feel is because we are spending more on public services than we can afford. The clearest indication of this has been the huge growth in employment in payroll numbers in the public sector over the last ten years.

 

To put it in context, the last labour government was spending £500 million more than it was getting in

 

Not a year

 

Not a month

 

Not a week

 

But every single day

 

And all of that was being borrowed

 

How was it going to be paid back?

 

Either through the whole country going bankrupt (similar to Greece) and having the IMF run the country

 

Or massive tax rises for generations

 

Or the route we are now on, 20% tax increase (which will hurt) and 80% cost cuts in order to get the public sector back to a size we can afford

 

And at the end of the day, this governemt is not cutting the National Debt, it is cutting the deficit, that is, it is slowing down the rate of increase in the National Debt

 

At some point we are going to have making in roads into the debt. It is going to take 15 years to sort this mess out.

 

 

 

I dislike Unions - they do not run the country. If they want to have a say in the public finances, perhaps they should form a political party and campaign in a vote of some sort (perhaps a General Election) and see whether they win. Opps, I think they tried that and see where it got us.

 

They should talk to their Irish comrades and see what real cost cutting measures look like - muppets!

 

Post of day!

 

Unfortunately it will be lost on most on here.....

[View From The Top]

I've taken a £1400 drop this year, and now have freezes for the for at least the next 2, How special am I ?

 

None of my team have had a pay rise in the last 3 years. We don't mither about it, just crack on. If we don't like it we are free to get jobs elsewhere.

 

Oh, and they are all in the public sector.

[LGTL]

Post of day!

 

Unfortunately it will be lost on most on here.....

 

Except the bit about Ireland, which is complete nonsense.

[dune]

Whem you allow Socialists in for 13 years you are always going to end up with a ruined economy and a mountain of debt, because the whole Socialist philosophy is a failed philosophy.

[LGTL]

New Labour were not Socialist.

 

[Joensuu]

I blame both the bankers and the labour government in equal measures.

 

The bankers were criminally negligent as far as I am concerned and those who knew what was being done should be brought to justice, not given £7m penions.

Their lending was irresponsible and the packaging and sale of risky debt is bordering on fraud IMO. The only people to suffer in the Financial Services industry are those at the bottom.... the bank tellers and the admin staff - they weren't to blame but paid the price.

 

As for Labour, the warning signs were there as far back as 2003, but failed to act and failed to put money by. My business banked over 50% of the profits year on year up to the crash, which has more than helped us weather the storm. As competitors followed the G Brown approach to prudence and spunked all the money in the good times, they have since gone to the wall enabling my business to take advantage and pick up work we may never have had.

 

Whilst on the subject of Mr Brown, I hold him personally responsible for lying and misleading the country with his no more boom and bust ********. People were taking out 120% mortgages off the back of the confidence shown by our great leader. He needs to be criminally prosecuted for fraud as do the people approving these mortgages.

 

The lefties only blame the bankers as their precious labour could never be blamed for anything, but as far as I am concerned both are to blame and both should be held accountable.

 

JB, I've never knowlingly agreed with you before, but even from my liberal left of centre viewpoint this is exactly how I see it. Labour overspent, wrecklessly. The bankers gambled, wrecklessly. Labour's PFI was possibly the most disgusting example of financial incompetence I've ever heard of. Both government and bankers share the blame.

 

As for the topic of this thread. Large government cuts will reduce tax income, increase dole queues, and reduce high street spending. No government cuts will necessitate tax rises, which will increase dole queues and reduce high street spending. The solution has to lie between the extremes: careful reduction in government spending.

 

Government spending should be addressed in lots of areas, but special consideration should be put into encouraging people off of welfare (by combining both carrot and stick - aka the generous Swedish model), and by saving the NHS, not by privatising it as many are suggesting, but instead by breaking the golden 'free for all' rule, and having each treatment come with a minor fee attached (say £2.50 per visit to a GP) - that would quickly minimise unnecassary visits to see GP's, without stopping anyone from receiving treatment. Then sit back and watch NHS spending drop by £5-10 billion, without effecting either treatment or service.

Edited 14 September, 2010 by Joensuu