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oh yes it is!

Weston Saint

By Weston Saint
in The Saints

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Dibden Purlieu Saint

Dibden Purlieu Saint

Posted
Posted
Why? It's exactly the same as if we were trying to sign a player from them. If our offer does not meet the valuation the club put on him (which will include their own costs it will take to replace him) then they are fully within their rights not to accept. And as Adkins apparently said he wouldn't resign until compensation was agreed, we either agree pay their amount or walk away.

 

So you're saying that if Scunny wanted £4m in compo, Adkins wouldn't see this as Scunny blocking his exit and thus resigning?

 

What are you on?

 

I also think you're getting confused. Resigning the job means that Scunny get nothing compensation wise. What Scunny want is compensation so they can terminate Adkins contract. That's how it works, m-kay.

RobM

RobM

Posted
Posted
14/1 on skybet now! Guess it's definitely not him then. Odd, when he just has to agree compensation, but guess they know something.

 

6/1 now.

dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted
Feel sorry for Adkins. I hope Wharton goes to the press with every detail.

 

NC is going to struggle to continue in football if no-one will deal with him.

 

In the fairness of balance

 

Feel sorry for Adkins. I hope CORTESE now goes to the press with every detail.

 

Wharton & Adkins could be going to struggle to continue in football if either is shown to have messed this deal up.

 

 

 

 

 

But I think you may just be closer to the mark.

 

next step?

 

Time to sack Reed I'm afraid

RobM

RobM

Posted
Posted
14/1 on skybet now! Guess it's definitely not him then. Odd, when he just has to agree compensation, but guess they know something.

 

3/1 now. Dropping back down all the time.

Dibden Purlieu Saint

Dibden Purlieu Saint

Posted
Posted
Say it again if you like, but it can only go to tribunal if Adkins resigns. He refused to resign until compensation was agreed. So, with no compensation agreement and no resignation, there's nothing to go to tribunal for.

 

OMG no it can't!!! Resigning means NO COMPENSATION. NO TRIBUNAL. Nothing. All he does if he resigns is quit his job.

Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted
As has been posted on another thread - the compo could be sorted out by a tribunal.

 

 

provided that the manager in question is willing to quit his old job and start the new one(ie with us) and let the tribunal sort it later

......seems that was what NC wanted but Adkins wouldn't do it, let him rot in Scunny then,they'll get relegated again soon and he'll regret it likely as not.

Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted
So you're saying that if Scunny wanted £4m in compo, Adkins wouldn't see this as Scunny blocking his exit and thus resigning?

 

What are you on?

 

I also think you're getting confused. Resigning the job means that Scunny get nothing compensation wise. What Scunny want is compensation so they can terminate Adkins contract. That's how it works, m-kay.

 

I could be wrong, but i thought even if he resigned and then joined us manager we would still be liable for compensation, albeit determined by a tribunal

.comsaint

.comsaint

Posted
Posted

According to a Scunny site - agent said offer Scunny £350,000 compo - so NC offered £200,000. Their chaiman (Wharton?) wanted £500,000.

 

Bollix? Truth? You decide.

merrimd

merrimd

Posted
Posted
OMG no it can't!!! Resigning means NO COMPENSATION. NO TRIBUNAL. Nothing. All he does if he resigns is quit his job.

 

OMG if he resigns, and then walks straight into another job, it goes to a tribunal. Happens all the time. Resigning is NOT A WAY OF AVOIDING COMPENSATION FFS!

Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted
OMG no it can't!!! Resigning means NO COMPENSATION. NO TRIBUNAL. Nothing. All he does if he resigns is quit his job.

 

not in football it doesn't, you can't just resign from a fixed term contract in any walk of life anyway.If you quit before the end of your contract your employer is entitled to compensation just as you are if the contract is broken by the employer for no valid reason.

Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted
OMG no it can't!!! Resigning means NO COMPENSATION. NO TRIBUNAL. Nothing. All he does if he resigns is quit his job.

 

Doesnt work like that in football. What if Ronaldo resigned from RM tomorrow, he couldnt just sign for another team, without any fee involved.

MongoNeil

MongoNeil

Posted
Posted
Phil Brown must be rubbing his hands knowing all other candidates have been put off now.

 

He'll probably celebrate with a tan. Probably on the phone to Cortese now....but still rubbing both hands, because he's wearing a ****ing headset!

 

Haha, just spat my lunch all over my keyboard :D

W9Saint

W9Saint

Posted
Posted
phil brown must be rubbing his hands knowing all other candidates have been put off now.

 

He'll probably celebrate with a tan. Probably on the phone to cortese now....but still rubbing both hands, because he's wearing a ****ing headset!

 

lol

Dibden Purlieu Saint

Dibden Purlieu Saint

Posted
Posted
I could be wrong, but i thought even if he resigned and then joined us manager we would still be liable for compensation, albeit determined by a tribunal

 

No, not as far as I understand. For instance, MoN resigned at Villa. Now surely if he joined us it wouldn't go to Tribunal? So why would it with Adkins?

1976_Child

1976_Child

Posted
Posted
It couldn't though. Adkins refused to resign until Scunny's compensation was agreed. For all we know Scunny were holding out for a stupid amount of money and Cortese refused to match it as he didn't think it worth the money.

 

Well maybe it is a case of NC being 'penny wise but pound foolish'. Last home game the attendance was 3,000 less than at the start of the season. Assuming they are not STs (which is a fair assumption) then the club received 3,000 * £18 = £54,000 and beer money too. (Using a blended average ticket price of £18 ). Half a dozen games like that is real money.

The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
So you're saying that if Scunny wanted £4m in compo, Adkins wouldn't see this as Scunny blocking his exit and thus resigning?

 

What are you on?

 

I also think you're getting confused. Resigning the job means that Scunny get nothing compensation wise. What Scunny want is compensation so they can terminate Adkins contract. That's how it works, m-kay.

 

Its all ifs, buts and maybes though. If they're asking for £4m then yes, I would expect his to resign as that is excessive. But if they are asking for a figure both they and him consider fair to replace him and we won't meet that, then his principles will suggest he will look out for his present employers and not leave them in the sh1t.

 

And please explain my apparent confusion; Adkins is clearly on a contract and if he "resigns" he is considered in breach of contract. Therefore the club will be due a financial sum, but not from SFC, from him. That would be their "compensation" if he resigned. If SFC agreed compensation with Scunny directly, then they would terminate his contract on the agreement of both parties, therefore no breach of contract.

 

But as I'm clearly confused, maybe you can tell me why I'm wrong with that?

hoozonside10

hoozonside10

Posted
Posted

I love the way we are slagging off our chairman when we have no idea what has actually happened. If anything, the Scunny chairman has caused all the aggro by publicising each alleged milestone in the discussions - this doesn't help anyone and I would be extremely ****ed off if someone I was dealing with behaved like this.

 

He is doing this for his own/Scunnys needs - not Nigel Adkins as I think he(Scunny chairman) believed he was off, and definitely not ours.

 

Not saying that what has been reported hasn't happened but at least hold judgement until we hear some facts, or at least news, from the OS.

Dibden Purlieu Saint

Dibden Purlieu Saint

Posted
Posted
not in football it doesn't, you can't just resign from a fixed term contract in any walk of life anyway.If you quit before the end of your contract your employer is entitled to compensation just as you are if the contract is broken by the employer for no valid reason.

 

He's not on fixed term, he is on a rolling contract.

Ken Tone

Ken Tone

Posted
Posted
OMG no it can't!!! Resigning means NO COMPENSATION. NO TRIBUNAL. Nothing. All he does if he resigns is quit his job.

 

Sorry mate but I think you are wrong.

 

Can't find chapter and verse but FA and league set rules a few years back to prevent managers being poached during a season. Hence needing Scunny's permission to even speak to Adkins. I think the position is either we agree compensation, or if he resigns it goes to a tribunal. Google wigan v swansea over Martinez. etc

 

It may even be (here I am admittedly unsure) that a tribunal could deem us to have acted improperly (by football 's rules, not real life employment law) and punish us in other ways ..even deducting points

dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted
Good.

 

Well worded OS thanks for that

 

PMSL at the media again (Didn't I just TELL ya that SMS were loving every minute of this winding the rpess up malarky! - woo hoo got that one spot on) 8)

 

Oh dear, Mr Wharton seems to have jumped the gun. Bet his wife loves him shooting off early.

 

We HAVE been told that all announcements are on the OS first. Serves us right for not believing.

 

In the I told you so stakes I did post 2 mins before this all broke that I thought NC still had one more person to see.

 

OK peeps, back to the Gosspi and tomorrow in the new friday threads.

 

Nothing more to see here, move along please

GenevaSaint

GenevaSaint

Posted
Posted
I think the OS makes the present position clear. Glad they have issued a statement

 

+1

 

People are jumping all over this without anything official coming from SFC. The could quite easily be a ploy to keep his manager by unsettling him, or NC is a plank (phrase of the day it seems).

Dibden Purlieu Saint

Dibden Purlieu Saint

Posted
Posted
Sorry mate but I think you are wrong.

 

Can't find chapter and verse but FA and league set rules a few years back to prevent managers being poached during a season. Hence needing Scunny's permission to even speak to Adkins. I think the position is either we agree compensation, or if he resigns it goes to a tribunal. Google wigan v swansea over Martinez. etc

 

It may even be (here I am admittedly unsure) that a tribunal could deem us to have acted improperly (by football 's rules, not real life employment law) and punish us in other ways ..even deducting points

 

I thought this was different with rolling contracts though???

 

I will wind my neck in and apologise if this is wrong though...

Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted
No, not as far as I understand. For instance, MoN resigned at Villa. Now surely if he joined us it wouldn't go to Tribunal? So why would it with Adkins?

 

because we did not incite MON to resign and take a job with us.He has no doubt sorted this out with Villa at the time and is now a free agent.

Dibden Purlieu Saint

Dibden Purlieu Saint

Posted
Posted
Its all ifs, buts and maybes though. If they're asking for £4m then yes, I would expect his to resign as that is excessive. But if they are asking for a figure both they and him consider fair to replace him and we won't meet that, then his principles will suggest he will look out for his present employers and not leave them in the sh1t.

 

And please explain my apparent confusion; Adkins is clearly on a contract and if he "resigns" he is considered in breach of contract. Therefore the club will be due a financial sum, but not from SFC, from him. That would be their "compensation" if he resigned. If SFC agreed compensation with Scunny directly, then they would terminate his contract on the agreement of both parties, therefore no breach of contract.

 

But as I'm clearly confused, maybe you can tell me why I'm wrong with that?

 

I thought it was different when on a rolling contract. But if I'm wrong then I apologise.

Alain Perrin

Alain Perrin

Posted
Posted

Swiss bankers don't do anything without having a reason. They also don't talk to the press before or (usually) after they've done it.

 

£500K (the figure is irrelevant) compensation is £500K we can't spend on Antonio or similar.

 

Personally (and I have no evidence either way), I think the on/off is a negotiating ploy. Not getting Adkins doesn't work for either party:

 

- Scunny have a manager who's agreed terms with another club.

- Saints don't have a manager and whoever replaces him knows they're second choice.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens now given that Cortese doesn't like doing his business in public.

Ken Tone

Ken Tone

Posted
Posted
Well worded OS thanks for that

 

PMSL at the media again (Didn't I just TELL ya that SMS were loving every minute of this winding the rpess up malarky! - woo hoo got that one spot on) 8)

 

Oh dear, Mr Wharton seems to have jumped the gun. Bet his wife loves him shooting off early.

 

We HAVE been told that all announcements are on the OS first. Serves us right for not believing.

 

In the I told you so stakes I did post 2 mins before this all broke that I thought NC still had one more person to see.

 

OK peeps, back to the Gosspi and tomorrow in the new friday threads.

 

Nothing more to see here, move along please

 

The OS statement reads more like damage limitation to me. Trying to give second choice candidate a scrap of dignity by making it look as if he isn't second really.

The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
I thought it was different when on a rolling contract. But if I'm wrong then I apologise.

 

A rolling contract only means that he always has a set term (usually 1 year) remaining on his contract at all times. So the compensation figure to buy himself out of the contract would be that one year.

1976_Child

1976_Child

Posted
Posted
Doesnt work like that in football. What if Ronaldo resigned from RM tomorrow, he couldnt just sign for another team, without any fee involved.

 

yes he could. Just not for a club falling under the umbrella of FIFA affiliated FAs. He could sign for a five-a-side indoor football club playing in Antarctica against the penguins. Laws of the land - such as right to withdraw labour still take precedent over FIFA rules. In fact, being really nit-picky, he could resign from RM and sign an 'employment contract' with another club but would not be licensed to play until released by RM. He could still train, make the cheese sandwiches and water the pitch as an employee of the new club but unless the new club decided to leave the FIFA affiliated league it was currently involved in (which it would be entirely at will to do) then he could not play. Rules are rules, Law is Law.

Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted
I thought it was different when on a rolling contract. But if I'm wrong then I apologise.

 

You are wrong, but the rolling contract is significant. With a fixed term contract, i am guessing the that the maximum compensation would be the total value of the contract, if the manager is on a 1 million a year and has three years left, then compensation would top at 3 million. Quite how you guage / estimate it with a rolling contract, i am not sure.

Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted
He's not on fixed term, he is on a rolling contract.

 

it's still fixed term accordng to employment law, the only type of contract from which you can legally resign with impunity is a

contract of intermined duration (ie a normal work contract)Rolling is fixed term, once a new period has started it's fixed until the

12 months following that date.

Dibden Purlieu Saint

Dibden Purlieu Saint

Posted
Posted
A rolling contract only means that he always has a set term (usually 1 year) remaining on his contract at all times. So the compensation figure to buy himself out of the contract would be that one year.

 

Ok, well in that case I apologise.

 

Just so ****ing angry that we just look like mugs all the time. I really do hate it.

Chin Strain

Chin Strain

Posted
Posted

As many have pointed out, we've only got the Scunny chairmans word for it as to what has happened / is happening. Maybe they've jumped the gun, after all it seems from various sources on here (accurate or not) that interviews were continuing. Money does funny things to people and maybe the Scunny chairman could see pound signs....

GenevaSaint

GenevaSaint

Posted
Posted
yes he could. Just not for a club falling under the umbrella of FIFA affiliated FAs. He could sign for a five-a-side indoor football club playing in Antarctica against the penguins. Laws of the land - such as right to withdraw labour still take precedent over FIFA rules. In fact, being really nit-picky, he could resign from RM and sign an 'employment contract' with another club but would not be licensed to play until released by RM. He could still train, make the cheese sandwiches and water the pitch as an employee of the new club but unless the new club decided to leave the FIFA affiliated league it was currently involved in (which it would be entirely at will to do) then he could not play. Rules are rules, Law is Law.

 

Yes indeed, but it's not going to happen now is it. What a stupidly hypothetical situation.

Dibden Purlieu Saint

Dibden Purlieu Saint

Posted
Posted
it's still fixed term accordng to employment law, the only type of contract from which you can legally resign with impunity is a

contract of intermined duration (ie a normal work contract)Rolling is fixed term, once a new period has started it's fixed until the

12 months following that date.

 

I did fail Employment Law at Uni, probably shows. I'm good with Advanced Micro-Economics though.

Chin Strain

Chin Strain

Posted
Posted
Ok, well in that case I apologise.

 

Just so ****ing angry that we just look like mugs all the time. I really do hate it.

 

If everyone had kept schtum until it was a done deal then there wouldn't be a problem.

Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted
yes he could. Just not for a club falling under the umbrella of FIFA affiliated FAs. He could sign for a five-a-side indoor football club playing in Antarctica against the penguins. Laws of the land - such as right to withdraw labour still take precedent over FIFA rules. In fact, being really nit-picky, he could resign from RM and sign an 'employment contract' with another club but would not be licensed to play until released by RM. He could still train, make the cheese sandwiches and water the pitch as an employee of the new club but unless the new club decided to leave the FIFA affiliated league it was currently involved in (which it would be entirely at will to do) then he could not play. Rules are rules, Law is Law.

 

As is a fixed term contract. Even if he didnt play for anybody else, RM could sue Ronanldo for the total cost of that fixed term contract, including the costs that (Signing on fee) that it took to set up.

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