Pardew and Coaching Staff Sacked.

[landford.saint]

How funny. I noticed the opposite. Of course there is likely to be less concern expressed because the initial shock is what gets people's backs up so much. I imagine people have expressed their (largely negative) views about this and have nothing else to say until we see what quality of manager is coming in. That is the sensible cause of action to take. Most have strongly criticised NC for this and other policies but with the caveat that if we can attract a better manager then fair enough.

 

I think what has occurred is a division of two vocal cvamps with opposing views and a not as vocal group in the middle who are waiting for some facts before they make their minds up.

[alpine_saint]

How funny. I noticed the opposite.

 

Not reflected by the poll results.

 

I thought I was on your ignore list, btw ?

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/paulfletcher/2010/08/pardew_sacking_at_saints_raise.html#248300

 

Interesting piece by Paul Fletcher about AP's sacking. [Apologies if posted before but haven't had the chance to look through all the pages]

[Whitey Grandad]

Violent conduct wouldnt leave him anything to fight through the tribunals. So if the rumour of a fight has any truth in it then he could be out on his ear getting only what his contract says he can get. If it states that its fully paid up no matter what the reasons for the departure then thats what he will get.

 

If its paid up to the date he gets sacked plus holiday owed then thats all he will get. NC will not pay him a shed load of money for him to keep quiet if Pards is guilty of gross misconduct. If Pards speaks out to cash in then the dirt will come out and it will be him that looks bad.

 

This is all of course if there is any truth in that rumour. Pards would be the one that would want it kept quiet and NC would be acting professionally if he deals with it in house and moves on. If either go blabbing about how wronged they have been it will turn into a farce and no-one will gain.

 

My money is on no matter what has happened, we wont hear much about it and will have to make do with rumours. If NC makes a good appointment for the manager job then we will quickly forget about Pards as we steam up the league. If we dont it will be the talking point for the next couple of years.

 

You still have to follow the correct procedure, or the dismissal will be 'automatically unfair'. It's a minefield which must be trodden carefully.

[spyinthesky]

Latest rumour is that AP flipped when Cortese asked him to pay for parking at St Mary's on match days!!

[Whitey Grandad]

Latest rumour is that AP flipped when Cortese asked him to pay for parking at St Mary's on match days!!

 

Ah! Constructive dismissal!

[saintjay77]

You still have to follow the correct procedure, or the dismissal will be 'automatically unfair'. It's a minefield which must be trodden carefully.

 

Of course.

 

I think the knee jerk reaction of fireing someone on the spot is always followed up with correct procedure. The rumours in this case suggest that the incodent could have happened almost 3 weeks ago and correct procedure has been followed ending up with Pards and co out of the door. The rumours also suggest its an incodent that has just happened and he was given the boot quick smart without thought of a replacement or what to do next. If thats the case then he will officially be on gardening leave until proper process has been taken care of. If NC knows the end result of that will be Pards and co are officially sacked then stating that now wont make a difference to the end result.

 

It all comes down to whats in Pards contract though. Football people seem to get contracts that mean they are paid the hole contract if its terminated early. I know my contract wouldnt be paid the same if my work got rid of me. I dont know how or if footballing contracts have guidlines on what happens due to gross misconduct though.

 

What if Barnard punched NC in the face? Would he get the boot but fully paid up or contract null and viod?

[Whitey Grandad]

Of course.

 

I think the knee jerk reaction of fireing someone on the spot is always followed up with correct procedure. The rumours in this case suggest that the incodent could have happened almost 3 weeks ago and correct procedure has been followed ending up with Pards and co out of the door. The rumours also suggest its an incodent that has just happened and he was given the boot quick smart without thought of a replacement or what to do next. If thats the case then he will officially be on gardening leave until proper process has been taken care of. If NC knows the end result of that will be Pards and co are officially sacked then stating that now wont make a difference to the end result.

 

It all comes down to whats in Pards contract though. Football people seem to get contracts that mean they are paid the hole contract if its terminated early. I know my contract wouldnt be paid the same if my work got rid of me. I dont know how or if footballing contracts have guidlines on what happens due to gross misconduct though.

 

What if Barnard punched NC in the face? Would he get the boot but fully paid up or contract null and viod?

 

Well Mutu had to pay Chelsea £14m in the end for breach of contract after testing positive for cocaine. If this dismissal happened a few weeks ago and if it was for violent conduct towards another member of staff then the individual or individuals involved would usually be sent home or else the employer could be in danger of providing a potentially unsafe working environment.

[saintjay77]

Well Mutu had to pay Chelsea £14m in the end for breach of contract after testing positive for cocaine. If this dismissal happened a few weeks ago and if it was for violent conduct towards another member of staff then the individual or individuals involved would usually be sent home or else the employer could be in danger of providing a potentially unsafe working environment.

 

Good point,

 

I was trying to think of an example where a player or someone in footy walked away worse off and couldnt think.

 

The rumours around whats happened are just rumours so in reality we have no idea. I doubt very much however that proper process would not have been followed so we prob wont hear any more about it. NC will keep his mouth shut as it seems he only wants Saints to be talked about in positive ways so he is not going to add fuel to the fire. Pards prob wont say anything either as he didnt when leaving Wham and Charlton. Old news is just that and he seems to look forward.

[derry]

He would be a fool to publicise his views if he wants to work as a manager again. Football is a small world.

[derry]

I see the sun is advertising cruises from a south coast port.

[Suhari]

The BBC have taken that article down.

 

However, there is quite a bit of detail there now.

 

Considering the rough few weeks NC has had- if this is true - AP comes out of this looking like a prize c**t.

 

I hope certain people will have the humility to express regret for their comments about NC if that is the case.

 

Been v busy this week, so have struggled to keep on top of the news (rumours?)

 

What was the jist of this article? Can someone let me know? PM will be fine.

[lordswoodsaints]

Now that I have spoken to my source I would like to change my vote from 'dont know' to 'yes'.

Alan has been a very naughty boy and I would like to apologise to mr cortese and say that 'player power' has for once forced the right decision to be made at a football club.

Fingers crossed we get a decent replacement.

[latter day saint]

Now that I have spoken to my source I would like to change my vote from 'dont know' to 'yes'.

Alan has been a very naughty boy and I would like to apologise to mr cortese and say that 'player power' has for once forced the right decision to be made at a football club.

Fingers crossed we get a decent replacement.

is your sauce in the Heinz league or is a bit Tesco Value?

[lordswoodsaints]

It's not harrods sauce and it's not lidl sauce it's somewhere inbetween,maybe reggae reggae sauce.

[ladysaint]

A report on SSN in a second from one of our players.

[Seaford Saint]

A report on SSN in a second from one of our players.

 

Hi Jan could you outline what was said for the benefit of us without Sky?

[Dr Who?]

http://http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/charlton_athletic/8964583.stm

[ladysaint]

Not a lot really just Hammond saying that the players all got on with AP and he said he was not aware of any player dissatisfaction. They are also happy with Wilkins and the way he is conducting training etc.

[doddisalegend]

Not a lot really just Hammond saying that the players all got on with AP and he said he was not aware of any player dissatisfaction. They are also happy with Wilkins and the way he is conducting training etc.

 

Really oh ...............................

[Chin Strain]

From what I heard, Hammond said that he personally had no problem with AP and he improved as a player under him. He didn't mention anything about all the players being happy, and kept his comments very much about his own feelings

[ladysaint]

Actually the above is more accurate than my account sorry was distracted when trying to listen to it.

[doddisalegend]

From what I heard, Hammond said that he personally had no problem with AP and he improved as a player under him. He didn't mention anything about all the players being happy, and kept his comments very much about his own feelings

 

Thats probably worse then, some where stating the players wanted AP out, now imagine if some did and some didn't. Lambert has always had nothing but praise for AP (so did Antonio in a recent interview but he doesn't count anymore). So Hammond didn't have a problem possibly others too (Kelvin on SSN is quoted as saying he understands why the fans where upset about AP). So we could have a team that are now divided and unhappy about the AP situation not great for a promotion push.

Edited 2 September, 2010 by doddisalegend

[Joesaint]

I would like to change my vote to yes as well after much thought.

 

We need not to forget AP and get behing the saints COYS

[Rory]

I would like to change my vote to yes as well after much thought.

 

We need not to forget AP and get behing the saints COYS

 

Based on speculation?

 

Face it, we are never going to find out the truth. I agree with you getting behind the Saints but it's ridiculous to change your opinion of Alan Pardew based on a few words on a screen. Unless either party comes out with their side of the story, the only thing us fans can focus on, as hard as it is, is the next match and pray the situation is sorted out as soon as possible.

 

We can debate on here until our fingers are nothing but bleeding stubs but it's going to get us nowhere.

[trousers]

Those of us who voted 'yes' from the off and/or didn't join in the Cortese slanging fest: take a bow now... ;-)

[John B]

Not according to SKY and most independent observers

 

http://www.skysports.com/opinion/story/0,25212,15231_6354322,00.html

[Tractor_Saint]

Not according to SKY and most independent observers

 

Um, you seen the thread "Can Someone pm Me" ?

[VectisSaint]

All the speculation about Pardew's sacking seems to focus on AP himself, and perhaps something he did. I don't have a clue what is or is not the case. But what about Wally Downes and Stuart Murdoch? How were they involved. I can understand them leaving as AP was sacked (since they were staff that he brought in), but why would they be sacked as well? Wilkins was also brought in by AP, but didn't leave and wasn't sacked. I'm coming round to the idea that the timing was bad but that something must have happened involving AP that warranted instant dismissal, after all AP has said nothing, if he was completely innocent I have no doubt that he would have come out and said something to the press, can't se he could be gagged if dismissed on the spot.

 

Anyway, whats done is done, sad to see someone go who I quite liked, but managers are like buses, just hope the next one is along very soon and is someone of high calibre (excludes Hart, Brown, Coleman and Ericsson)

[NickG]

It maybe that Wally Downes was the central figure leading to the departures.

[benjii]

It maybe that Wally Downes was the central figure leading to the departures.

 

It may be, but unless you actually know something then there seems little point in starting a new thread inviting baseless speculation on the subject.... oh.

[NickG]

maybe right didn't need another thread

[Tractor_Saint]

Um, you seen the thread "Can Someone pm Me" ?

 

I'm pretty sure it was there a few mins ago censorship at it's speediest!

[itchen]

Those of us who voted 'yes' from the off and/or didn't join in the Cortese slanging fest: take a bow now... ;-)

 

Based on what? We have no facts, just speculation.

[doddisalegend]

Based on what? We have no facts, just speculation.

 

this^^^ I'm amazed how many people are ready to except some internet rumours as fact.

[Guan 2.0]

Not according to SKY and most independent observers

 

http://www.skysports.com/opinion/story/0,25212,15231_6354322,00.html

 

Maybe this decision stems from the sad death of Markus Liebherr. He was perhaps Pardew's biggest ally in the boardroom and new chairman Nicola Cortese clearly wasn't particularly enamoured with the manager, for whatever reason.

 

 

It appears that a clash of personalities has led to Pardew's exit, and the exit was hastened by the passing of Liebherr.

 

 

Personally, I think personalities should be left out of decisions like this. You should look at how a club is progressing and how a team is playing before getting rid of the manager.

This decision stinks of a personality clash and has nothing to do with where the club is going.

 

 

Well it's a report that seemingly contradicts everything we've heard so far, even Solent were told by Markus's representatives that he didn't come to the last game of 09/10 because he was so disappointed. In fact, it reads like a badly researched heap of old boys network bull****.

[Legod Third Coming]

How do we know these rumours about Pardew are not put about by a hapless Chairman looking to exonerate himself from a major f u c k up?

 

Answer: we don't...

[doddisalegend]

Well it's a report that seemingly contradicts everything we've heard so far, even Solent were told by Markus's representatives that he didn't come to the last game of 09/10 because he was so disappointed. In fact, it reads like a badly researched heap of old boys network bull****.

 

You missed this part which is more telling to me. I assume we can kiss Adam good buy in January then.

 

Pardew was popular among both the fans and the players. I've spoken to Adam Lallana, who had been linked with clubs in higher divisions, but was happy to stay at St Mary's because he rated Pardew so highly

[Smirking_Saint]

How do we know these rumours about Pardew are not put about by a hapless Chairman looking to exonerate himself from a major f u c k up?

 

Answer: we don't...

 

Its not really a major f*ck up though is it ??

 

Pardew wasn't that great and we don't actually know whats happened ?

[Dig Dig]

Not according to SKY and most independent observers

 

http://www.skysports.com/opinion/story/0,25212,15231_6354322,00.html

 

That is one of the worst reports I've read on the whole debacle. The guy clearly doesn't know what he's talking about.

[Smirking_Saint]

this^^^ I'm amazed how many people are ready to except some internet rumours as fact.

 

Equally i am surprised that many believe it was the 'crazy' dictators 'crazy' f*ck up due to him not liking him.

 

Look at whats happened and that we have heard nothing. Add this to the fact that Cortese has been a very successful in business. Honestly, if he identified Pardew as a weak link as some are saying or didn't like him then surely he would have a planned replacement.

 

He hasn't, it seems to be a quick decision made on what can only assume an incident that has happened somewhere. Thats how i see it.

 

Everywhere Pardew has been has been marred with something that has gone wrong or someone he has rubbed up the wrong way, this only adds to my thoughts on the issue.

[Legod Third Coming]

Its not really a major f*ck up though is it ??

 

Pardew wasn't that great and we don't actually know whats happened ?

 

At the end of the season we'll know, but life without Pardew seems to be going really well so far

The point is the Chairman can now hold his head up whatever the results are and say 'you see I had no choice' nudge, nudge wink, wink...

 

I want a reason. I want honesty. Is that too much to ask for 40 years of my life?

This innuendo is a bloody poor show.

[Chin Strain]

You missed this part which is more telling to me. I assume we can kiss Adam good buy in January then.

 

Pardew was popular among both the fans and the players. I've spoken to Adam Lallana, who had been linked with clubs in higher divisions, but was happy to stay at St Mary's because he rated Pardew so highly

 

FFS, don't be such a bandit

[Dig Dig]

You missed this part which is more telling to me. I assume we can kiss Adam good buy in January then.

 

Pardew was popular among both the fans and the players. I've spoken to Adam Lallana, who had been linked with clubs in higher divisions, but was happy to stay at St Mary's because he rated Pardew so highly[/quote

 

he probably met adam last year and is just re-hashing an old interview to try and make it sound like he knows a little it about what happened when clearly he doesn't. I'm sure adam wouldn't have said out right that he's only here for AP, rather he's probably believes in the 5 year plan. If we get a decent manager and do well until xmas no one will go anywhere

[doddisalegend]

Its not really a major f*ck up though is it ??

 

Pardew wasn't that great and we don't actually know whats happened ?

 

Best we've had since WGS though (lost something like seven matches last season, granted drew a few to many). Also it could be a major **** up with no new manager lined up, if the team perform like they did against Swindon before a new manager comes in we could be way of the pace by the time a new manager has settled and got us playing well again (if indeed he does). We won't know how much of a ****up it is/isn't until the end of the season. I was confident of top two a week ago now not at all.

[doddisalegend]

FFS, don't be such a bandit

 

Why? losing Lallana has always been a possibilty, if he told the reporter he stayed becuase of AP he might now have less reason to stay. Of course it could all be made up.

[Smirking_Saint]

At the end of the season we'll know, but life without Pardew seems to be going really well so far

The point is the Chairman can now hold his head up whatever the results are and say 'you see I had no choice' nudge, nudge wink, wink...

 

I want a reason. I want honesty. Is that too much to ask for 40 years of my life?

This innuendo is a bloody poor show.

 

Were not likely to hear anything though i am afraid, we never do at any club really Cortese or no Cortese.

 

The fact is however that when managers are usually dismissed for no reason to them then they usually 'release' the info at some point, like in MON's case.

 

The fact Pardew has left without looking back or mentioning anything is as deafening as Cortese keeping his trap shut.

[Junior Mullet]

You still have to follow the correct procedure, or the dismissal will be 'automatically unfair'. It's a minefield which must be trodden carefully.

 

Not really if you can prove gross misconduct.

 

You are quite right that technically you do still need to follow procedure to avoid a finding of unfair dismissal on procedural grounds BUT the tribunal have discretion in awarding compensation and take the employee's conduct into account. Thus a sacking on the spot for proven gross misconduct may well lead to a finding of unfair dismissal but no compensation. The maximum award for unfair dismissal is capped at a fairly low amount also, ibearing in mind the salary AP was presumably being paid.

 

The key consideration here is breach of contract ie wrongful dismissal. NC would have had to tread carefully and ensure he had enough evidence to prove that AP's conduct was sufficient to amont to a fundamental breach of his employment contract. If the mutual trust and confidence had been shot to pieces by AP the club will not be liable to pay AP up to the end of the contract. The club might instead choose to sue AP for compensation (similar to the Mutu situation). Chances are AP and the club will just have agreed to depart company without compensation either way in return for mutual gagging clauses.

[Chin Strain]

Why? losing Lallana has always been a possibilty, if he told the reporter he stayed becuase of AP he might now have less reason to stay. Of course it could all be made up.

 

This.

 

And just because he likes AP doesn't mean to say he won't like the next manager even more. All in all 2 + 2 don't equal 5

[Legod Third Coming]

Were not likely to hear anything though i am afraid, we never do at any club really Cortese or no Cortese.

 

The fact is however that when managers are usually dismissed for no reason to them then they usually 'release' the info at some point, like in MON's case.

 

The fact Pardew has left without looking back or mentioning anything is as deafening as Cortese keeping his trap shut.

 

Not really, Pardew will have been forced to sign a compromise agreement asking him to keep shtum to get his pay off. He also knows the game - speak out-stay out...

 

It would be a simple matter for a Chairman to say either that someone has been dismissed for a breach of club discipline or because of performances on the pitch.

 

The timing is lousy, the void left has been filled with speculation and I'd like our Chairman to explain what part of his 3/5 year plan involved sacking a manager at the worst possible time following a period of what this club would ordinarily consider relative success...(his win ratio of 53% is only 5% worse than Alex Ferguson and Arsene Wenger).