Pardew and Coaching Staff Sacked.

[Dalek2003]

I'm getting flashbacks from the Lowe/Sturrock episode...[/QUOT

 

Indeed, a flashback to the Spring of 2004, but this time the right decision will be made. Glenn Hoddle !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kingsbridge Saint]

Risky decision by Cortese but could turn out to be a masterstroke. Feel for AP - was doing a decent job and I felt we were headed in the right direction, but never looked like Champions under him, ever. The next appointment will be pivotal and needs to be someone of O' Neills calibre, someone who the players will respect and swing in behind. If it's Burley I'm packing it in.

[alpine_saint]

Risky decision by Cortese but could turn out to be a masterstroke. Feel for AP - was doing a decent job and I felt we were headed in the right direction, but never looked like Champions under him, ever. The next appointment will be pivotal and needs to be someone of O' Neills calibre, someone who the players will respect and swing in behind. If it's Burley I'm packing it in.

 

No worries. He's busy screwing Palace up.

[Smirking_Saint]

If this true, and NC really wanted rid at the end of last season, then you really have to wonder just how bad communication was between them. They should have been able to agree mutual terms for his departure.

 

True, i still think if this is the case and NC really wanted rid he should have done so last season, and got someone in early.

 

OR perhaps pardew tried it on with NC's missus ?

[geoffnut]

Can't understand this at all! If they wanted to get rid of AP why didn't they do it at the end of last season? Lets get a manager who has had success in the past not a failure who has been sacked by a previous club.

Southampton FC have now totally lost their reputation as a successful well managed club ( were they ever?)

[sadoldgit]

No worries. He's busy screwing Palace up.

 

But your idea of a good manager is 3 wins in 13 Alps, so if he acheives that at Palace he is on a roll surely?

[buctootim]

True, i still think if this is the case and NC really wanted rid he should have done so last season, and got someone in early.

 

If I was Cortese and knew ML was dying, I'd lie to him and say everything at the club was great, I wouldnt go to him to sanction sacking the manager.

[alpine_saint]

But your idea of a good manager is 3 wins in 13 Alps, so if he acheives that at Palace he is on a roll surely?

 

. Was just referring to this tactic of yours on that personal fifedom of a thread you have set up.

[alpine_saint]

If I was Cortese and knew ML was dying, I'd lie to him and say everything at the club was great, I wouldnt go to him to sanction sacking the manager.

 

Especially in the light of the watch story.

[dubai_phil]

Bloody hell. I leave you lot alone for 8 hours to catch a flight, land in sunny Jockland and get a huge roaming bill for the 8,972 text msgs sent to me while in the air.

 

Whatever the reasons, motoivations, personalities, a very strange time to do it.

 

Not surprised, nothing in football can do that these days.

 

Off we go then scrap the structure style and start again

[sadoldgit]

. Was just referring to this tactic of yours on that personal fifedom of a thread you have set up.

 

Really Alpine you talk us much b*ll*x as CB Fry. Are you two related?

[sunrise]

I'm getting flashbacks from the Lowe/Sturrock episode...[/QUOT

 

Indeed, a flashback to the Spring of 2004, but this time the right decision will be made. Glenn Hoddle !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

FFS get a life! Hoddle is a tosser and crap manager - he's hardly been successful has he?

 

As for the sacking, it has a very Lowe-esque ring and timing about it, whilst we can speculate about the reasons behind it, the timing of doing it isn't exactly good. I hope the wop has some-one else in mind or we can forget about promotion.

[buctootim]

Especially in the light of the watch story.

 

Ive never heard the watch story, only indirect references to it. What happened?

Edited 30 August, 2010 by buctootim

[sadoldgit]

Can't understand this at all! If they wanted to get rid of AP why didn't they do it at the end of last season? Lets get a manager who has had success in the past not a failure who has been sacked by a previous club.

Southampton FC have now totally lost their reputation as a successful well managed club ( were they ever?)

 

I agree although I think that Cortese was embarrassed by all the public support for Pardew at that time so held fire.

 

Bad decision and even worse timing.

[saint77]

If I was Cortese and knew ML was dying, I'd lie to him and say everything at the club was great, I wouldnt go to him to sanction sacking the manager.

 

spot on i reckon

[Give it to Ron]

You can't help but go back to NC's comments in the summer about developing an exciting way of playing that could be called the "southampton style" or words to that effect. As one who's been around a while this conjured up thoughts for me of the halcyon days under Ted Bates, Lawrie Mac, Alan Ball (for a year) and for a time Gordon Strachan.

 

I never really felt that way about AP's style of football-always too narrow, not a lot of pace and loads of hoofball. A bit tactically inept and very hard to watch at times too. wasn't a one off.

 

I was at a party last night with a parent of one of the academy lads and all the teams have been told to play narrow. The wide men have been told to keep cutting inside and not to keep going wide outside.

Whilst I like the idea that all the teams play the same way - it goes against everything I love in wing play where getting to the byeline and outside and cutting it back is the way I think is the answer to packed defences.

[alpine_saint]

Really Alpine you talk us much b*ll*x as CB Fry. Are you two related?

 

Yep. We are both members of the human race. Whereas you are from planet Zog.

[Northant Saint]

I really dont think anyone can call this decision ridiculous when they are completely clueless as to what happened behind the scenes. We all know that Pardew was quite a controversial man at times, and clearly he wasnt compatible with Cortese and his aims. For that reason alone he had to go. I also agree to an extent that his decisions (or lack off) during games has costs us valuable points at times. I remember just how long it took him to make a change at Swindon away last year!

 

Regardless of these points it is very concerning that on the back of a 4 nil away win he is sent packing. The mix up may also costs us games, when it seemed that we were almost back to winning ways. Lets just hope Cortese has thought this through carefully.

[alpine_saint]

Ive never heard the watch story, only indirect references to it. What happened?

 

Dont have a link, mate. Suggest you try either the OS news archive or go back a couple of pages of thread titles to old threads on here. I think someone set up a thread that starts with the story. Maybe try a search ?

[positivepete]

Didnt Bryn Gunn get sacked after winning 4 nil away at Yeovil last season? Lambert then proceeded to take Norwich up.........

[buctootim]

Dont have a link, mate. Suggest you try either the OS news archive or go back a couple of pages of thread titles to old threads on here. I think someone set up a thread that starts with the story. Maybe try a search ?

 

Ta.

[Cestrian Saint]

What a ****ing joke. Back to square one! What is it about our club that attracts these ****s to come in and destroy our club.

[Deppo]

Can I suggest we all send an email to Cortese in protest? I have penned one that you can just cut and paste into your email:

 

Dear Mr Cortese,

 

RE: Alan Pardew

 

Nice one Nicola, you tit. Football is different from banking and there is no room for personal vendettas in this game. I don't care if Alan slipped your wife a length, it has nothing to do with the running of OUR club

 

Yours sincerely,

 

[sign your name here]

[Jimmy_D]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/paulfletcher/2010/08/pardew_sacking_at_saints_raise.html#248300

 

Well balanced article on it here.

[.comsaint]

Ive never heard the watch story, only indirect references to it. What happened?

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?24595-The-Watch-story

[Daren W]

Starting from the end of your post first:-

Lowe's record on managers was that because we were a pauper club, he did not allow managers the funds to buy the players who might have made a difference, or we needed to sell the players who would have made a difference. You see, the problem is that whereas you are correct that you can't excuse a bad decision based on who made it, it is pure conjecture as to whether this is a bad decision.

 

The timing might have been forced on Cortese because of the death of ML, or something might have happened within the squad within the past day or so, or somebody Cortese wanted might just have become available - we don't know, so useless speculating until something concrete becomes known. But to state that the timing is a disaster that will ruin the season is totally over the top. It has already been pointed out that Norwich sacked their manager at a similar stage of the season and went up as champions. There have been too many instances of managers taking over teams during the season and a transformation in their fortunes ensuing. So, the transfer window is due to close. So what? We are still able to take on loans and most had agreed that bar a little fine-tuning, the squad was pretty well complete.

 

Talk about the season being thrown into disarray and chaos and having to start again is frankly hysterical. Let's see who we appoint. Personally I'd consider Curbishley a good appointment, but according to most on here, O'Neill would be a fantastic coup, but improbable. So what if we did get O'Neill? Would he be incapable of sorting out this chaos that has been left by Pardew's departure and inspiring the squad? I don't think he would find it much of a problem.

 

Conjecture? We have no manager and the club state they have no one waiting in the wings... I'd define that as chaotic. It's all well and good quoting O'Neil as a possibility but you can't write off my view that this is a bad decision as conjecture and then back that up by what may be round the corner. We have no manager, the transfer window is two away from ending. I'd view this as being a poor decision. Sack him in May by all means but by the end of August with no manager in the wings? I'd say that wasn't the best decision...

 

Name me one available manager that excites you? Curbishley? Brown? Ignore whether or not they're available if their names were mentioned would you bat an eyelid? I wouldn't. Pardew is at the very least a good Championship manager and to better his credentials you need some with Championship/Premership experience and keeping a team there... Both men possibly but neither excite me and if you're honest, if their names were mentioned right after Wembley you wouldn't have given them the time of day...

 

We are at square one yet again, it's not hysterical it's point of fact and made all the more awkward by the fact that people talk and having a chairman that is viewed as "difficult" by the press may well put off some candidates. If you sack Pardew when he's viewed as doing a reasonably good job, what manager would be attracted to job that sets standards that high?

 

And again, where have I stated the season has been ruined???? Never is the answer. Now you're being hysterical...

[sadoldgit]

IF the 5 year plan was based on automatic promotion last season, even with my dodgy maths that would mean 4 seasons in the Championship. With NCs lack of patience with progress, that doesn't sound right to me.

[dockland Dave]

"Back in May, Cortese described reports of Pardew's imminent demise as "ill informed". A source close to Cortese told me that the chairman mounted a strong defence of Pardew's position at a time when owner Markus Liebherr, who tragically died in early August, wanted a change of manager." From Paul Futchers BBC bog

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/paulfletcher/2010/08/pardew_sacking_at_saints_raise.html#248300

[buctootim]

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?24595-The-Watch-story

 

Thanks!

[madruss]

Alan pardew has never been the man to take us forward. He has no plan B in games, substitutions always came too late to affect a game, the squad looked decidedly unfit at the start of this season. Yes the timing is a little strange, but if it wasnt for Marcus passing away i think this may have happened after the Plymouth game. People are blinded by the JPT win last season, we were inconsistent in the league last season and all we heard was excuses about dodgy pitches and teams playing negatively against us. We are an expensively assembled side who should have done better and shown more consistency than we did, and the three league games at the start of this season only cemented that theory. Cortese has made quite a few gaffs but on this one I couldnt agree with him more, my only regret is that he went momentarily soft at the end of last season and didnt do it then.

 

Sorry but you're talking rubbish, and you're not the only one. There seem to be a lot of people on here today suggesting that we had an inconsistent under-performing team last season and that the only decent thing we did was win the JPT. I've also seen it said that Pardew was given money to spend in January and wasted it, and that his transfers made no difference to the team's results. I'm all for people airing their opinions when they're backed up with facts or evidence, but the only evidence I can see to assess Pardew's performance as crap last season has been 'We didn't get promoted, therefore he's s*it'

 

Here's some actual evidence. After the transfer window shut in January, we played 19 games and amassed 40 points. (2.1 points per game). That's more points than any other team managed in the league during that period!

 

Now's if that's the sign of an inconsistent team with crap substitutions who has to resort to making excuses and is badly managed, then I seriously don't envy the new guy that comes in. Because if performing better than all the other teams in the league over a sustained period isn't enough to keep you in the job, then I don't know what is.

 

(Oh yeah that's right, not only do we need to get results, those results can only be achieved by playing amazing champagne football in a contintental style. Good luck new manager, you're sure as hell going to need it!)

[Daren W]

What I would say is hysterical is Meridian's report stating "There are fears for the future of the club..."

 

No there's not, he's a manager, no more no less...

[John Smith]

FWIW, I personally think there is more to this than any possible sacking during the summer. I think that was addressed and partially closed and we moved onto this season with the intention that Pardew would be manager for the forseeable future. BUT, something else as happened, is this that NC has had his head turned by another, 'better' manager, that he has long since admired? I don;t know.

 

However, what I think may well have been the catalyst was the result against Leyton Orient and the lack lustre performance of many of our so called stars. I can imagine NC asking AP for an all inspiring win, to cellebrate ML's (RIP) involvement in this club AND to show the rest of his attending family that we all care. Whether something happened after the game, I'm not sure, but, I can imagine that NC and AP had a meeting after that game and I can also imagine that it wasn;t a back slapping, all willbe rosey meeting. Wheels in motion to out AP, probably. Right or wrong, don;t know, but the two have clearly fallen out, also, probably since the summer that this has got worse.

[madruss]

What I would say is hysterical is Meridian's report stating "There are fears for the future of the club..."

 

No there's not, he's a manager, no more no less...

 

I've always hated that Skate-biased news show. Our future's fine thanks very much, at least we can still fill our subs bench!!

[ART]

Stunned at the news. Obviously big disagreements on signings and the direction things were going. Pardew's statement about so pleased to be getting away from St Mary's hinted at interference or problems during home games. I know this is very controversial but events and board/chairman tactics have for some while led me to speculate that none other than Rupert Lowe is advising Cortese in some capacity. I'd even go so far as to say Lowe was probably the entity involved in selling Saints to Cortese. After takeover, I believe Lowe may have been lined up to return in some capacity but deemed too controversial to put into place. It all sucks but I'll reserve judgment till a successor is named and results are forthcoming. Omens of the last 3rd match manager sacking are too awful to think about!

[Verbal]

Starting from the end of your post first:-

Lowe's record on managers was that because we were a pauper club, he did not allow managers the funds to buy the players who might have made a difference, or we needed to sell the players who would have made a difference. You see, the problem is that whereas you are correct that you can't excuse a bad decision based on who made it, it is pure conjecture as to whether this is a bad decision.

 

The timing might have been forced on Cortese because of the death of ML, or something might have happened within the squad within the past day or so, or somebody Cortese wanted might just have become available - we don't know, so useless speculating until something concrete becomes known. But to state that the timing is a disaster that will ruin the season is totally over the top. It has already been pointed out that Norwich sacked their manager at a similar stage of the season and went up as champions. There have been too many instances of managers taking over teams during the season and a transformation in their fortunes ensuing. So, the transfer window is due to close. So what? We are still able to take on loans and most had agreed that bar a little fine-tuning, the squad was pretty well complete.

 

Talk about the season being thrown into disarray and chaos and having to start again is frankly hysterical. Let's see who we appoint. Personally I'd consider Curbishley a good appointment, but according to most on here, O'Neill would be a fantastic coup, but improbable. So what if we did get O'Neill? Would he be incapable of sorting out this chaos that has been left by Pardew's departure and inspiring the squad? I don't think he would find it much of a problem.

 

While I agree with much of the detail of your arguments, I can't help thinking that you might look back on this post as Canute might look at tides. All makes perfect sense so long as you factor out the recent record of Cortese's decision-making. Factor it back in, and I don't see, for example, a clear comparison with what happened at Norwich last season. They had just completely rebuilt their squad at great expense and then taken a seven goal beating against Colchester. They had a full-on emergency, which clearly had its source in the manager's tactical abilities (although clearly not his squad-building abilities). We're just not in that position - and in any case, the sacking of the managerial team immediately around Pardew suggests this was really a personality/power struggle, and not a football matter at all.

[Katalinic]

http://www.exeweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41181&page=4

 

Interesting their views on Saints/Tisdale. Also interesting is the poster 007 who claims to have a very very good source and refers to the dressing room's view of AP. I am assuming his source is Seaborne.

[Saint Billy]

What I would say is hysterical is Meridian's report stating "There are fears for the future of the club..."

 

No there's not, he's a manager, no more no less...

 

Typical Meridian, anything to throw a spanner in the works. Script probably written by Fred Sewage.

[ART]

I meant to mention that I see some disagreement of transfers and maybe the Board/Chairman has decided to sell a player that Pardew wouldn't hear of being offloaded. This is one almighty warning to everyone at the club than no one's job is safe and it's results that count.

[Kaiser Soze]

Remember when Pardew said last year the structure of the football club and his relationship with Cortese was the envy of every other manager?? Oh.

 

Terrible decision with terrible timing, albeit not suprising as heard this was going to happen a few weeks ago. If Cortese was going to sack AP he should have done it in the summer.

 

Lowe would go a better job than this muppet.

[saint lard]

Being discussed on talksport now.

[S-Clarke]

Wilkins view -

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~2139546,00.html

[dellgirl]

After a strange old morning mulling all this over I can only suggest we get behind the team tomorrow and on Saturday no booing of the CEO or overt support for a manager we no longer have and wait and see what this week brings. I agree with many comments on timing etc but at least we now know in whose hands our future lies and on whose shoulders responsability lies also.

[derry]

At the end of last season there was speculation that Pardew was going to be sacked. Pardew even expressed doubts when asked about his future. There was a concerted campaign through the Echo not to sack the manager. There was obviously dialogue between Pardew and Cortes which led to Cortese issuing a statement not only confirming Pardew as the manager to take us forward but also announcing that in future we would be playing a more compelling and attractive style that would in time become known as the Southampton style which Pardew was going to take forward.

 

Cortese appointed Les Reed to an influential post as head of development and proceeded to put in place a bottom up structure at Staplewood to take forward his plans. There was a committee formed to look at future signings, Pardew, Reed, Burke and Cortese. It would appear as time has gone on that there was a difference in opinion between the new structure and the first team set up.

 

At the start of this season it was probably thought that there would be an attempt made to introduce the new style initially in pre season then in the season proper, however there has been no change and Pardew and his coaches continued to play as last season. I think this together with the poor pre season and a pedestrian start brought things to a head. Duncan at the beginning of the month talked about Waigo coming back but there was no way that was going to happen with Pardew as manager. If there was a row as reported over signings that would be no surprise. If as reported there were tactical resignations by the new development scouting regime this would have brought matters to a head.

 

Pardew's relationship with Cortese was at best believed to be arms length and if the above scenario was true there really were only two decisions available. Sack the manager or accept the resignations of a very important part of the club.

 

I think that Pardew was limited and safety first and was not the manager to take us forward. I like the idea of a more compelling style and feel that this was a big issue with Cortese and the people he had brought in but was possibly being undermined and ignored in the first team set up. I want to see a winning team but I don't like the way Pardew has his teams play. I also think that Markus and Cortese brought up watching, Swiss, German or Italian football weren't enthralled by the style on offer, hence the more compelling style remark.

I am not surprised Pardew has gone but like others I don't think this was planned but brought to a head by a clash over style and recruitment this week.

 

I look forward to a new manager that has demonstrated the ability to manage and motivate successfully together with the commitment to the style that the club require.

[washsaint]

Personally, I think this could turn out to be a master stroke by NC. I would assume that there is more to this than just the on-field performances (and let's face it, Saturday aside they were just not good enough).

 

I thought AP was very poor - his tactics were strange, he shipped out players who could do a job for us and had real favourites who were untouchable.

 

Personally I thought we were going nowhere under AP and believe that NC will make a very good decision on the next manager.

[ottery st mary]

derry

 

This is why I idolise you..

 

Heard that we had signed a million pound striker at the weekend but obviously no news in view of what has happened.

 

Begin to wonder if this was the straw that broke the camels back..Someone else coming in and another leaving..

 

WIFM

Edited 30 August, 2010 by ottery st mary
forgot is

[madruss]

I am not surprised Pardew has gone but like others I don't think this was planned but brought to a head by a clash over style and recruitment this week.

 

I look forward to a new manager that has demonstrated the ability to manage and motivate successfully together with the commitment to the style that the club require.

 

I think your assessment of the situation is pretty plausible, and wouldn't be surprised if it were quite close to what's actually happened.

 

My biggest worry is that we're seriously narrowing down the prospective manager short-list by sending out a message to the new manager of "You can have the job, but only if you agree to have the team playing a specific way, and only if you sign the players we tell you to sign"

 

IMO I can't see any decent manager agreeing to these sort of demands, and in that respect there's a danger we'll end up with a 'yes man' type of manager.

[Wade Garrett]

The timing of this decision stinks.

 

I would be horrified if Cortese hadn't lined up Pardew's replacement in advance. He is playing a dangerous game, and will be staking his reputation with the success/failure of our next manager.

 

We need someone for the long term that will galvanise the club and lift the City.

[1976_Child]

What ****ing timing. Poor old Pardew, he gets a fabulous 4-0 win and then the chop. Clearly he did not get on with Cortese.

 

Still, to be honest, the name on the manager's door is not that important to me. We need to get back into the Prem. End of story. So if the powers that be reckon, for whatever reason, that Pardew was not the man to achieve this then it is best he went sooner than later. Maybe he had an almighty falling out with NC, maybe he demanded more cash for a player. We will never know. But if so then it is better he went now, and not let things rumble on under the surface until january and then walk out. To those who say this ******es up the season, sure it is not the best thing for stability, but all is not lost.

 

What I would say is that if we end up with some no-body in charge then NC will have ****ed up royally. Only an absolutely top-drawer manager will do. With a top-draw management team too.

[itchen]

I don't understand the reason for Pardew's sacking. I understand even less the timing of it. I can only think there must have been a huge row since Saturday. I hope AP screws NC for every penny he can.

[rallyboy]

calm down everyone, I was disappointed by the sacking but the insane ranting on here has annoyed me more than the decision, boycotts, chants, hanging from a lampost??

Idiotic.

 

I saw Spurs this week sweep majestically into the Champions Lge proper, their fans were singing of eternal support - a few days later they were booing the players off like the fickle yobs they are.

Win together, lose together? Only when it suits them.

Managers and players come and go, you abuse them one week and adore them the next - so let's have a reality check on history for those spouting crap -

 

Hoddle has failed everywhere since The Dell - having him back would have changed nothing - let's bury that stupid fantasy once and for all.

Strachan was great for a short time for us, but his record pre and post-Saints is very average.

Pearson was great in a crisis, engineered a great escape and may develop into a very good manager, but he's not Alex Ferguson so we don't know what would have happened then.

Burley had a great record, but he failed here.

Redknapp is the man to get you out of a relegation crisis by wheeler-dealing....yeah, right.

For all we know Wotte could turn into Mourinho with some money but we will never know so let's not guess at the version of imaginary history we would like to fit our arguments.

Pardew has a pretty good record with us, okay at West Ham, horrendous at Charlton - we have no idea how the next six games would go let alone the season.

 

 

And most importantly

 

Rupert Lowe's main aim was to make money for Rupert Lowe.

Nicola Cortese' main aim is to honour his best mates' dying wish and to take us back to the Prem - Now the way he does that may be ruthless and ill-judged, his timing may be woeful, he may make mistakes - BUT

 

 

unlike Lowe he wants the same end result that we do, success for Saints - this decision today will be judged by the table in May, nothing else.

 

 

So chill, let's see what he has up his sleeve before getting all ranty, if he has nothing up his sleeve then we can rant.