Antonio??

[Stu Man Do]

There are two factors to consider - long-term team building to compete at the next level, and what is needed to get to the next level.

 

Your proposal would help with the former, but not the latter. Personally I think our transfer activity should focus on getting out of here, and worry about the rest later.

 

Assuming for one minute that NickG's completely unempirical 500K is the going rate for a player of Antonio's stature and experience, I would have gone up to 750K if I had been NC. Simply because if he helps deliver promotion, we would get that additional investment back in a flash.

 

In which case you are suggesting that by signing Antonio we are better than evens to go up? He is a decent prospect but to suggest even indirectly that he is the man to get us promoted is IMO not the way forward. Also you seem to be suggesting that we sign a team capable of promotion even if those players then are not good enough for the division higher? "worrying about the rest later" as you put it was the sort of financial thinking in the play offs season that many people on here including yourself have been wanting to move away from surely?!

[alpine_saint]

In which case you are suggesting that by signing Antonio we are better than evens to go up? He is a decent prospect but to suggest even indirectly that he is the man to get us promoted is IMO not the way forward. Also you seem to be suggesting that we sign a team capable of promotion even if those players then are not good enough for the division higher? "worrying about the rest later" as you put it was the sort of financial thinking in the play offs season that many people on here including yourself have been wanting to move away from surely?!

 

Reading seem to want to hold on to him now, inferring he is already Championship material.

 

I dont see Antonio as a cure-all, but a missing link to give us the option to mix-up our tactics. Considering our inability to unlock teams, it might make a difference. On the other hand, we had him last season and still failed to unlock teams occasionally.

 

I havent assumed its Antonio or nothing, but we do seem to be having trouble identifying the alternative to "nothing"..

[Saint_clark]

Reading seem to want to hold on to him now, inferring he is already Championship material.

 

I dont see Antonio as a cure-all, but a missing link to give us the option to mix-up our tactics. Considering our inability to unlock teams, it might make a difference. On the other hand, we had him last season and still failed to unlock teams occasionally.

 

I havent assumed its Antonio or nothing, but we do seem to be having trouble identifying the alternative to "nothing"..

 

You're right, he must be useless.

Let's aim higher. Why weren't we in for Joe Cole?

[alpine_saint]

You're right, he must be useless.

Let's aim higher. Why weren't we in for Joe Cole?

 

How about you discuss without sarcasm ? I was giving a balanced assessment of his potential impact (something I am criticised for not doing) and still you sneer.

[saintjay77]

That is not luck - that is a skill in its own right.

 

True point for players like rasiak or sherringham but I'm not sure Antonio fits into the same bracket. I may be wrong (probably am) but it looked more luck than skill last year. He looked clumsy most of the time with a poor 1st touch. Football people must see enough in him to think that can all improve so I'm prolly talking gash. Just my opinion on last season. Got some crucial goals but didn't look all that. Had a song the fans could sing together which might have made him more popular.

[Lord Duckhunter]

He looked to me like a lower league Chicken George. May have been useful to have around the squad at the right price, but like Papa he seems to get better the less we see him play. Surely holding on to Lambert, Lallana, Fonte and Kelvin this summer should make us happy, without moaning about not resigning a squad player. The group of players we have, should gain promotion, if they're managed correctly.

[andybeal]

He looked to me like a lower league Chicken George. May have been useful to have around the squad at the right price, but like Papa he seems to get better the less we see him play. Surely holding on to Lambert, Lallana, Fonte and Kelvin this summer should make us happy, without moaning about not resigning a squad player. The group of players we have, should gain promotion, if they're managed correctly.

 

So so wrong - Antonio and Papa WERE last season, without them we can forget it. If they were £1m each it would be easily worth it - shortsightedness from Cortese et al.

[RobM]

Lads, I hate to break it to you, but we're not going to sign Antonio. Thought it was worth mentioning, since that's obviously not known to the 4-pages of posters here.

[S-Clarke]

So so wrong - Antonio and Papa WERE last season, without them we can forget it. If they were £1m each it would be easily worth it - shortsightedness from Cortese et al.

 

They were good squad players, but that's all they were. They weren't ''last'' season.

 

Last season was about Lambo, Lallana, Morgan, Fonte, Harding - without them we can forget it. Luckily they're still here!

 

Antonio and Papa were impact players, good impact players yes - but i still believe that both are replaceable, at the end of the day it was their pace that made them a threat more than their technique and technical ability.

 

I think we are going slightly OTT on both players if im honest .

[RonManager]

Lads, I hate to break it to you, but we're not going to sign Antonio. Thought it was worth mentioning, since that's obviously not known to the 4-pages of posters here.

 

We're all in denial,

We're all in denial,

La laa la la

La laa la la.

[Viking Warrior]

whats the point of having the mong on your ignore list when my fellow posters keep copying and posting his posts

 

Come on mods sort this site out I do not want to see you know whose posts full stop. I feel a touch of De Jevu again why cannot I remain positive about saints with out some ijit coming along

and being ultra negaitve all the time , Wheres me razor blade

[dubai_phil]

whats the point of having the mong on your ignore list when my fellow posters keep copying and posting his posts

 

Come on mods sort this site out I do not want to see you know whose posts full stop. I feel a touch of De Jevu again why cannot I remain positive about saints with out some ijit coming along

and being ultra negaitve all the time , Wheres me razor blade

 

I'll defemd every single members right to state their position and opinion in a debate. I also defend everyone's right to quote a post - how else can you answer a critical point.

 

What I DO feel is going wrong is that some posters have no actual awareness of what a DEBATE or a DISCUSSION is. It is about both sides making a logical argument, assessing the responses and then countering them.

 

The fundamental PROBLEM we now have is that this does not happen. A great deal of posters are Hyper Intelligent Mega beings from another planet. They ARE the only opinion and they are ALWAYS right. This mentality is ego centric not experience centric, and it sorely damages the possibility of debate.

 

Anyone who makes anything other than an eloquent riposte which considers the possibility that Mr Right is knowing it all and is RIGHT becomes - in an ego centric world, a personal attack that has to be aggressively defended.

 

I am sure that far better amateur Pshycologists than me could write fantastic thesis papers using this forum.

 

But, the fact is the RIGHTS exist on here. They do not break any rules, they respond the way they do because that is what they are.

 

I actually enjoy it. Because knowing that PEOPLE are ALL different and the way it keeps being shown up PROVES that football teams are not about simply skill but also about the mental state and the psychology and dynamic of the team.

 

Ignoring fools, antagonists or simply those who agressively defend their always RIGHT position is a poor thing to do. It stops you personally from learning and making sure that you don't fall into the same mistakes in life, let alone on here.

 

Oh and who SAYS we don't have a better player than Antonio more ready to be consistent WHEN we need him lined up?

 

I said it before - IMHO I think we have ALL agreed that this season is CRITICAL. Now is NOT the time to buy potential first team players. We need to buy PROVEN first team players.

 

I'll start shouting NC & the Scouting team out when we get to the end of the window

[dubai_phil]

Oh and that is a dig at a number of posters. Not just one. This forum needs ALL of them otherwise it wouldn't be such a laugh

[Charlie Wayman]

FFS you havent even seen a ****ing game. We did really well v Bolton and were very unlucky v Orient. Slightly rusty maybe but no way 'bad'. We battered a Prem team fod most of the game the other night, hence the standing ovation at the end. I was actually there and we certainly were not 'bad'.

 

Correction mate, we battered their second team, which would be about lower nPC level. Get real!

[Andy_Porter]

This forum needs ALL of them otherwise it wouldn't be such a laugh

 

Indeed, this place has been a right laugh over the last couple of months!!

[RonManager]

What's all this SHOUTING?

 

 

We'll have no trouble here!

[eharty9]

we have **** all impact players, nothing off the bench, need some pace nothing else

[Deppo]

I don't have any managerial experience, but I think I'd be the sort of manager who would want all my players to make an impact.

[Wes Tender]

Correction mate, we battered their second team, which would be about lower nPC level. Get real!

 

This was NOT their second team. It was a mix of first team and players on the fringe of the first team. A little analysis would show you that. Of the players from Bolton who played us, several featured in their previous two Premiership matches against Fulham and West Ham, either in the starting line-up or as substitutes. Those players who also played against us were Knight, Holden, Taylor, Kevin Davies, Klasnic and Elmander.Others who played and who were on Bolton's bench as subs for their first two matches were Bogden, Mark Davies, Andy O'Brien and Ricketts. On the bench and could have come on as subs were other first team players like Petrov, Jaskelainen (G/K) Cahill, Robinson and Muamba.

 

So the only two who played and had not featured before in Bolton's teams were Martin Alonso (a youngster bought from Real Madrid) and Ricardo Gardner, who has been a first team regular for Bolton for yonks.

 

Even having introduced two players to the match as subs from the first team, we still dominated and had we equalised, Coyle would only have had one further substitution available which might not have been enough. And when wrongly saying that Bolton played their second team, it also has to be said that neither did we field the strongest team available to us. Considering the two division gap between us, no impartial observer would have rated them the higher division team.

[NickG]

thought Alonso was very good - just looked him up -he came through the ranks at Real Madrid and did appear for them before Bolton signed him.

[Smirking_Saint]

Why is it Antonio has become such a god since he has left us ??

 

I actually want us to sign him so everyone will just get over it and go back to the realisation that he blew hot and cold

[Daren W]

I don't get this Antonio obsession. Good League One player, no more no less. Reading loaned him to us, saw an improvement and took out an option they were fully entitled to. We've done it to other clubs... it's what the loan system is about. One team gets a player for free, the other gets their player more experience. As it's been quoted before, and no one's taken any notice of, we did the same with Surman and Lalana.

 

Instead of looking at it realistically we get the usual suspects whineying on about how the world revolves around player x and how we're all going to hell in a handcart without him. How on earth anyone can dispute NickG's evaluation of 500k is beyond me. He is a Championship squad player. A substitute. If we weren't loaded, Reading would be selling him right now. They obviously think they can eke more money out of us but as Windmill Arm stated, why pay over the odds for someone we can pick up for free later on?

 

We've played two league games and already the wrist slitters are out in force.... Unbelievable...

[Thedelldays]

I don't get this Antonio obsession. ...

 

the obsession is the pace...and that he chipped in with the odd crucial goal...he and papa offered pace..something im guessing we are really lacking at the mo...

antonio got better and better...look at todays game last season..he really pushed them back which was a major factor in saints playing the game further up the pitch..

he scored and almost scored in the JPT..

 

if this guly character is quick and/or we get a wide player in who is quick then people will very quickly forget about antonio

[NickG]

he played less for us last season the Otsemebor!

[Thedelldays]

he played less for us last season the Otsemebor!

 

I dont know what that means...actually I do..it means nothing

 

the facts are he offered us real pace and power at crucial times last season.....

[NickG]

the obsession is the pace...and that he chipped in with the odd crucial goal...he and papa offered pace..something im guessing we are really lacking at the mo...

antonio got better and better...look at todays game last season..he really pushed them back which was a major factor in saints playing the game further up the pitch..

he scored and almost scored in the JPT..

 

if this guly character is quick and/or we get a wide player in who is quick then people will very quickly forget about antonio

 

think it was something like 3 league goals, not many assists. I would much rather we had him on the bench and hope we do sign him - but think there are probably a lot of players out there as good, or better and cheaper - remember he came to us as pretty much a 19 year old non-league player

[NickG]

I dont know what that means...actually I do..it means nothing

 

the facts are he offered us real pace and power at crucial times last season.....

 

it does mean nothing - just looked at last season and was surprised.

[Thedelldays]

think it was something like 3 league goals, not many assists. I would much rather we had him on the bench and hope we do sign him - but think there are probably a lot of players out there as good, or better and cheaper - remember he came to us as pretty much a 19 year old non-league player

 

if he is so easily replaced..then why havent we...?

im not saying he is a world beater..but I would rather have antonio than have no one...and we currently have no one

[NickG]

yet.

[Thedelldays]

yet.

 

agree.....but still would rather have antonio than no one..

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Pardew was reported in last night's Echo saying we won't be signing Antonio.

[norwaysaint]

I don't have any managerial experience, but I think I'd be the sort of manager who would want all my players to make an impact.

 

Nutshell.

[Thedelldays]

Pardew was reported in last night's Echo saying we won't be signing Antonio.

 

yes....heard that..shame but hey ho..

do hope we get in a quick decent wide player to add to the squad...

[NickG]

Think Ox-C has more potential, already scored for us this season.

 

I wonder, if he keeps developing, how much Antonio would have been used later on in the season even if we had signed him.

[Thedelldays]

Think Ox-C has more potential, already scored for us this season.

 

I wonder, if he keeps developing, how much Antonio would have been used later on in the season even if we had signed him.

even wih alex chamberlin...pards has been on record saying he still wants another wide player..

 

so....we want another wide player...and still say, antonio is better than getting no one

[NickG]

agree, Antonio would have been a good signing - just don't get some of the comments on here building him up and saying we should be paying over £1m for a player to be on the bench in league 1!

[Daren W]

the obsession is the pace...and that he chipped in with the odd crucial goal...he and papa offered pace..something im guessing we are really lacking at the mo...

antonio got better and better...look at todays game last season..he really pushed them back which was a major factor in saints playing the game further up the pitch..

he scored and almost scored in the JPT..

 

if this guly character is quick and/or we get a wide player in who is quick then people will very quickly forget about antonio

 

Good point and thus far one of a handful of posters to offer a reason why.

 

But again, he was squad player for us, sometimes on fire, sometimes terrible (a bit like Puncheon) and it's those instances that people tend to forget. But you're right we are missing a miss a bit of pace.

[suewhistle]

Obviously, having had Antoino and Papa on loan last season with a reasonable degree of success, it would have been the lowest risk approach to bring them back. For whatever reason, the club decided not to pursue this, so its down to them to find the players for the weak areas still not addressed..

 

How do you know that the club didn't pursue this? Is this knowledge or another one of your assumptions? We have heard that we made offers for Antonio but it is patently clear that the club is never prepared to be held to ransom over over-pricing. That may be the issue or it could be that finally Reading wanted to keep him. We don't know! We may have made an offer for Papa; we don't know, but the Italian press reported that he didn't want to come back, possibly because he sees himself playing at a higher level, as all footballers would want to.

 

Finally, sorry for not competing in the late night posting stakes. My first two footie training sessions (the others have been at it for week or so) on subsequent evenings both finishing at 10.30 meant I was shattered.

[sadoldgit]

What a joke - why o why didnt we insist on a purchase clause with the loan - from memory we had 2 loan periods in which to sort this out. I feel in my heart that we should be owed money now for developing the guy! What a f**k up!

 

Well it appears that Reading had an extension clause in their original contract so nothing we could do about that if they want to extend. As has been said before, the reason clubs loan players out is for their development. If they develop then why not keep them? There are better players out there than Antonio though. (Alps, I assume that Cortese did this deal, how do you feel about that?).

[Badger]

Antonio is obviously out of contract next summer.This is known to both Saints and Reading.I expect discusions are continuing with his agent if Saints and Pardew really rate him.

 

If Reading do not offeer him a contract extension by the new year, or he refuses it, Reading will probably accept £250,000 for him in January.

 

For the timebeing there is no deal to be done.However there is possibly some brinkmanship being played here by AP/Cortese and Madjeski, lets see who blinks first.

[saintjay77]

Antonio is obviously out of contract next summer.This is known to both Saints and Reading.I expect discusions are continuing with his agent if Saints and Pardew really rate him.

 

If Reading do not offeer him a contract extension by the new year, or he refuses it, Reading will probably accept £250,000 for him in January.

 

For the timebeing there is no deal to be done.However there is possibly some brinkmanship being played here by AP/Cortese and Madjeski, lets see who blinks first.

 

Thing is, if he gets game time for reading in the championship and they offer him a contract, why would be come back to us? If we get promotion he would have to be confident he could get in our 1st team as opposed to already being in readings 1st team.

 

He might be good for us in L1 but moving forward our options may change.

[Saint_clark]

Pardew was reported in last night's Echo saying we won't be signing Antonio.

 

Yes, but watch the actual interview on Saintsplayer - it's obvious that we HAVE made bids for him.

[NickG]

Matt Philips better prosect?

[Thedelldays]

Matt Philips better prosect?

 

are we getting him..?

[Saint_clark]

are we getting him..?

 

Not in Wycombe squad today, no reason given.

[NickG]

been strongly linked for a while, played well last two games for them but not in their squad.

 

Pacy 6 ft winger, scores a few and plays for England U19

[peacey]

Bloody hell. Love you too peacy. I hear your dad is out of a job. Tough break dude.

 

Yeath he is, has been let go by saints.....Cheers, so big and mature of you to take it that step further and rub it in..... He will be back though, just like Dr warner...Dont you worry, thay are allways invited back....Much love sexy xxx

[hypochondriac]

Yeath he is, has been let go by saints.....Cheers, so big and mature of you to take it that step further and rub it in..... He will be back though, just like Dr warner...Dont you worry, thay are allways invited back....Much love sexy xxx

 

I presume you are never blue on footballforums?

[peacey]

Thats right.... Why do you just rub peoples nose in things and stir and wind people up ALL the time?? Infact does anyone know why Hypochondriac does it?? Is he a attention seeker, or just a ****?? Why o why?? Many people have said this on here now.

[peacey]

You allways do it when someone says something you dont agree with, Well its a footie forum and people have there own views and thoughts and also have a bit of fun. If you dont like it ignore it like most people do and dont post! Whats it got to do with you anyway??? Like i said it a footie forum ffs, and people are getting sick of you...Ive only been back 5mins to!!! EEEKKKK