SuperMikey Posted 25 August, 2010 Share Posted 25 August, 2010 Martin for me, Jaidi is past it now imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAndWhite91 Posted 25 August, 2010 Share Posted 25 August, 2010 Martin for me, Jaidi is past it now imo. Wouldn't say he was past it, but he is getting there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 25 August, 2010 Share Posted 25 August, 2010 I think we may end up needing all of them at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 25 August, 2010 Share Posted 25 August, 2010 Jaidi is losing the battle with Father Time. Pardew sees Seaborne and Martin every week in training so he must be the better judge than fans who just get to see them when they get a game. Seaborne and Fonte seem an ideal pairing as Fonte is strong on the right, Seaborne on the left. But Seaborne was injured this week so we don't actually know who is Pardew's preference as the main competitor to Jaidi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 25 August, 2010 Share Posted 25 August, 2010 Wouldn't say he was past it, but he is getting there. He'll be long gone by the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 25 August, 2010 Share Posted 25 August, 2010 Only one person in this thread was able to spell Seaborne correctly! I think the main problem is that Pardew isn't that sure, so it'll keep changing. I'm not sure about Martin, Seabourne or Jaidi now. Ideally we need someone as good as Fonte to build a long term partnership good enough for the league above. His distribution isn't up to much, but the same applies to Seabourne. He was solid enough though and always went for safety first (i.e. hoofing it out of play). I think he would be fine against most L1 opposition. Interesting question. I find Jaidi slow & distribution is also very poor. Already this season we have had posters saying that Seabourne just hoofed ball away and dismissed him as an option - quite frankly Jaidi doesn't appear to be any better. Think Jaidi / Seabourne / Martin are much the same. Pardew needs to make a decision and stick with it because the most important part will be the 'partnership' with Fonte. Jaidi hasn't really got the legs any more but his reading of the game is probably better than Fonte's let alone Martin or Seaborne. Having said that I'd like to see Martin phased in over the course of the season. He's going to get games as Jaidi can't play twice in a week and by the end of the season he should have made the place his own. Seabourne needs to fight to reclaim the 'number 3' slot back from Martin - and I think that's healthy competition. Jaidi seems to be on the verge of being past it he also tries to be too clever with the ball when it should be a case of safety first - and his passing is not always great either Seabourne and Martin should be pushing for the starting position alongside Fonte - but I have a feeling Martin will be the better of the two in the long run! Thought there were a couple of times when Martin let the ball bounce a couple of times last night, where Jaidi would surely have headed it half the length of the pitch. However, Jaidi looks a real liability whenever a ball is played along the ground, I do rate Martin, and would prefer him to start ahead of Jaidi & Seabourne, although I'm probably a little bias as I want to see a young Southampton born player who was playing non league football this time last year force his way into the starting 11 and oust an experienced international. Thought there were a couple of times when Martin let the ball bounce a couple of times last night, where Jaidi would surely have headed it half the length of the pitch. However, Jaidi looks a real liability whenever a ball is played along the ground, I do rate Martin, and would prefer him to start ahead of Jaidi & Seabourne, although I'm probably a little bias as I want to see a young Southampton born player who was playing non league football this time last year force his way into the starting 11 and oust an experienced international. Fonte, Jaidi, Martin and Seabourne. Most if not all League 1 clubs would kill to have those four as centre back options. Jaidi. Easy choice for me. I reckon Pardew also agrees. Martin 2nd choice though. Seabourne can suck my nads. Martin seems to have moved above Seabourne in the pecking order. Didn't go last night but if he did a good job on KD that is a good sign as he is a better version of what he'll face week in week out. I think the criticism of Jaidi is a bit harsh, he hasn't been great but not that bad either, we know he has no finesse, he is not that type of player. He is probably one of those players that needs 4 or 5 games to really get into his stride in a season. Well done Professor! Jaidi is losing the battle with Father Time. Pardew sees Seaborne and Martin every week in training so he must be the better judge than fans who just get to see them when they get a game. Seaborne and Fonte seem an ideal pairing as Fonte is strong on the right, Seaborne on the left. But Seaborne was injured this week so we don't actually know who is Pardew's preference as the main competitor to Jaidi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 25 August, 2010 Share Posted 25 August, 2010 "Well done, Professor" would be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maysie Posted 25 August, 2010 Share Posted 25 August, 2010 Noticed him try to clear a ball on his left side with his right foot. It looked incedibly clumsy and would have been spotted and pounced on by better opposition. He is too inexperienced to play every week so I expect to see Jaidi most of the time. He is a much better header of the ball than any of the others. At 3rd division level that skill is vital. Better opposition? We're in league 1 and were playing a prem side? Now I know Rochdale have there stars, but I's suggest last night was the 'better opposition' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 25 August, 2010 Share Posted 25 August, 2010 It's always worth remembering players like Mike Williamson in threads like this. Released by Saints with most fans, myself included, thinking he wasn't quite good enough to make it with us. He now plays in the Premiership with Newcastle. I think CB is one the hardest positions to judge a young player, because so much of the role is down to learning positioning, gaining experience and organising your fellow defenders. I think Martin has real potential, as illustrated by the way he's handled the rise from Conf. South to League 1. That is a big leap in itself, and to have done well against Kevin Davies, whilst still only 20, bodes very well IMO. We mustn't overplay him or burn him out, but his is a talent that should be encouraged this season as I am confident he'll only get better and better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_lambden Posted 25 August, 2010 Share Posted 25 August, 2010 Thought Martin dealt well with Davies/Elmander. Deserves a run in the first team. If we can just teach the defenders to use the ball better when they have time with it then we'll create more IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 25 August, 2010 Share Posted 25 August, 2010 I think Martin is a great footballer in the making. He was excellent last night, showed pace and intelligence, knew when to do the simple thing and should definitely start on Saturday. England material one day. FACT. Not sure about the pace but I think I agree with the general sentiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 25 August, 2010 Share Posted 25 August, 2010 I'm open minded on Martin - no strong feelings either way at this stage. Would have voted for Ian Harte if he was an option... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Johnson Posted 26 August, 2010 Share Posted 26 August, 2010 Martin every single day of the week. As strange as this may sound, Jaidi was one of the reasons we played so badly on Saturday. I dont doubt the need to have an absoulte unit in defence in this league, and in that respect Jaidi is perfect, but at the same time if every single time he gets the ball he just smashes it up field then it's no real advantage. Jaidi would be perfect if he done the things he done well (like throwing his body in the way) then when he wins the ball just play it short to Fonte, but it doesnt, it goes long, EVERY SINGLE TIME!!! For that reason I want to see Martin there, he has the ability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 26 August, 2010 Share Posted 26 August, 2010 I do wonder which matches people are watching sometimes. Jaidi dealt perfectly comfortably with everything in the air, facing his own goal and on the ground on Saturday (albeit only against Orient who created one chance), but was allowed the ball and showed his weakness in creating chances for us from his own half. So now he's past it. On Tuesday Martin struggled to show composure under pressure when facing his own goal, distributed the ball to various stands, and vaguely competently handled a not-very impressive Prem League front two who rarely got the ball in the first place - except the one time they scored and the other time they had a free shot 6 yards out - and now he's the second coming. Mentalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry the Badger Posted 26 August, 2010 Share Posted 26 August, 2010 and now he's the second coming. Mentalism. I think it's just that he is "anyone but Jaidi" and the grass is always greener for some people. The fact is, we've played 2 league games and conceded 2 goals, Jaidi was only in any way involved in one of those. I don't think defence is our problem. Yes, his distribution is poor, and that is particularly frustrating when we are chasing a game, but Pardew should be able to sort this by making sure somebody (Schneiderlin perhaps) always makes themselves available to receive a short pass from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mewsta Posted 26 August, 2010 Share Posted 26 August, 2010 I do wonder which matches people are watching sometimes. Jaidi dealt perfectly comfortably with everything in the air, facing his own goal and on the ground on Saturday (albeit only against Orient who created one chance), but was allowed the ball and showed his weakness in creating chances for us from his own half. So now he's past it. On Tuesday Martin struggled to show composure under pressure when facing his own goal, distributed the ball to various stands, and vaguely competently handled a not-very impressive Prem League front two who rarely got the ball in the first place - except the one time they scored and the other time they had a free shot 6 yards out - and now he's the second coming. Mentalism. Not wanting to start an argument at all here.... but If you read back through all the comments, the majority of people want Martin in the side.... have you ever thought that maybe its yourself (with the exception of 1 or 2 others) that is seeing something different?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 26 August, 2010 Share Posted 26 August, 2010 Not wanting to start an argument at all here.... but If you read back through all the comments, the majority of people want Martin in the side.... have you ever thought that maybe its yourself (with the exception of 1 or 2 others) that is seeing something different?! No, I'm right and they're all wrong. Obviously. Weirdo. PS, if you want some evidence, look at the spelling of Seaborne - empirically verifiable proof that most people on this thread are wrong. Sheesh, I never thought I'd have to resort to MLG levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Smith Posted 26 August, 2010 Share Posted 26 August, 2010 Not wanting to start an argument at all here.... but If you read back through all the comments, the majority of people want Martin in the side.... have you ever thought that maybe its yourself (with the exception of 1 or 2 others) that is seeing something different?! Make that 3 or 4, or more, but I totally agree with The9, on this, a very rare thing indeed! Most of the kids on this site won;t understand it, and I get that, but the older ones it should be clear. Let me explain how. 2 seasons ago, when we were in the CCC, we were eaten up by those big burley centre forwards. The same accusations being aimed at Saints this season, are what we were saying we wouldn;t be able to deal with in League 1, as we couldn;t deal with it in the CCC, ie, it was only going to get more direct. Jaidi didn;t sign for the first few games of last season, and who did we have at the back? Anyway, Jaidi is the man mounting we needed and still need today in this league. people who say he didn;t win a header on Saturday, well I sit at the game with my old man and I love watching Jaidi, I mention to him nearly every time he wins a header, "Jaidi again". Why? Because he is impressive, he is the man we need at the back in this league and we should be greatful that he extended his career to be here. Martin, on the other hand, appears much more cultered. I love this. In his first game a SMS last season, I was taken aback by his calmness on the ball, his composure, his ability to do the simple things AND how he was tall and could win those headers. However, let's not get ahead of ourselves here, Martin is young for a CB, very young. In this league, he could get a right battering. His confidence could be lost and he could also get injured. This season we should bring him along and throw him into games where we can, so that he can gain that experience. Jaidi, I believe, is on a two year contract. At the end of this season, I really hope we get promotion. In the Championship, after being blooded this season, a pairing of Fonte and Marting with Seabourne as backup would be great, and if we're lucky, Jaidi will extend his contract for a further year to give us that extra cover. BUT, do not confuse a ball winning man mountain with a cultured CB. We need Jaidi in this league. He will beat 99% of strikers in the air in this league, and in this league, that is where most of the attacks will come from. Yes, he is getting slower, yes he may be losing his passing abilities, and yes he may tire toward the end of tough games, but, we need him to win those headers! And no matter what people on here report back about how he's played or how he passed, he won 99% of headers every game and we need that, big time. Martin will have his season. Hopefully when we get promoted at the end of this season. We should be thanking Jaidi, not slamming him. Like I said before, don;t listen to what people on here say, ask lambert, he'll tell you which defender he fears most in this league, Jaidi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 26 August, 2010 Share Posted 26 August, 2010 Funnily enough the other alternative to taking the rise out of people for spelling was starting a "show us your medals" debate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northam soul Posted 26 August, 2010 Share Posted 26 August, 2010 I do wonder which matches people are watching sometimes. Jaidi dealt perfectly comfortably with everything in the air, facing his own goal and on the ground on Saturday (albeit only against Orient who created one chance), but was allowed the ball and showed his weakness in creating chances for us from his own half. So now he's past it. On Tuesday Martin struggled to show composure under pressure when facing his own goal, distributed the ball to various stands, and vaguely competently handled a not-very impressive Prem League front two who rarely got the ball in the first place - except the one time they scored and the other time they had a free shot 6 yards out - and now he's the second coming. Mentalism. Finally someone else who can see it for what it is. Martin needs a hell of a lot of work if he is to become any sort of league one defender. I appreciate safety must come first when playing at the back and he did an ok job on Tuesday but jesus christ it doesnt mean that you have to lump the ball in the stands at every opportunity. Jaidi is by far the better player at the moment, whether he will be in a years time is totally irrelevant. I have played with enough decent centre halves in my time to know that just because Martin may well be a yard quicker than Jaidi doesnt mean he is the better choice for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 26 August, 2010 Share Posted 26 August, 2010 Tuesday was the first time I have seen Martin lumping it into the stands, he is normally a lot more composed than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAndWhite91 Posted 26 August, 2010 Share Posted 26 August, 2010 Tuesday was the first time I have seen Martin lumping it into the stands, he is normally a lot more composed than that. If in doubt, get it out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 26 August, 2010 Share Posted 26 August, 2010 If in doubt, get it out... Exactly, he was marking Kevin Davies FFS, even a lot of top Prem defenders struggle against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 26 August, 2010 Share Posted 26 August, 2010 Exactly, he was marking Kevin Davies FFS, even a lot of top Prem defenders struggle against him. Oh yeah, cos Fat Kev's known for his pace in closing defenders down... the Bolton strikers didn't get enough decent ball from their reserve midfielders to pose many problems in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 26 August, 2010 Share Posted 26 August, 2010 Tuesday was the first time I have seen Martin lumping it into the stands, he is normally a lot more composed than that. But this is fair comment. Which is why I wonder if it was The Fear that had hold of Martin on Tuesday. Not always a bad thing, but better players deal with it with confidence. Which is not to say he won't get used to it, and not to say he won't be alright at CB in League One in the meantime - but Jaidi's been there and done that already. There's almost certainly going to be a crossover period of assimilation alongside Fonte, which will also involve Seaborne competing for that place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 26 August, 2010 Share Posted 26 August, 2010 Oh yeah, cos Fat Kev's known for his pace in closing defenders down... the Bolton strikers didn't get enough decent ball from their reserve midfielders to pose many problems in the first place. Who said anything about pace? Are you denying Davies' strength and hold up play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 26 August, 2010 Share Posted 26 August, 2010 Who said anything about pace? Are you denying Davies' strength and hold up play? We were discussing Martin hoofing it into the stand, whether he was any good at containing Davies wasn't particularly relevant to the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericofarabia Posted 26 August, 2010 Share Posted 26 August, 2010 Just a thought ... I wonder if Jaidi is fasting, seeing as it is the holy month of Ramadan and at a guess he would have been brought up in Tunisia as a Muslim. Kachloul used to fast during Ramadan whilst he was here. It might explain his even more noticable lack of pace on saturday and mental sharpness at times when on the ball. To be fair to his distrubution failings in hoofing, there never seemed to be any midfielders making themselves available for a short ball. Of course age is catching up, and 2 games a week are probably not going to happen, but he is certainly someone you'd like to have in the trenches with you when the going gets tough. Did Perry get taken up by anybody? His reading of situations often made up for his lack of pace and could be useful on a games played contract if nobody else has snapped him up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohwhenthesaints Posted 26 August, 2010 Share Posted 26 August, 2010 Just a thought ... I wonder if Jaidi is fasting, seeing as it is the holy month of Ramadan and at a guess he would have been brought up in Tunisia as a Muslim. Kachloul used to fast during Ramadan whilst he was here. It might explain his even more noticable lack of pace on saturday and mental sharpness at times when on the ball. To be fair to his distrubution failings in hoofing, there never seemed to be any midfielders making themselves available for a short ball. Of course age is catching up, and 2 games a week are probably not going to happen, but he is certainly someone you'd like to have in the trenches with you when the going gets tough. Did Perry get taken up by anybody? His reading of situations often made up for his lack of pace and could be useful on a games played contract if nobody else has snapped him up. Perry went to Gillingham I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybeal Posted 26 August, 2010 Share Posted 26 August, 2010 Did Perry get taken up by anybody? His reading of situations often made up for his lack of pace and could be useful on a games played contract if nobody else has snapped him up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 26 August, 2010 Share Posted 26 August, 2010 one of my happiest days as a Saints supporter was the realisation that Perry was to be replaced by a defender that could actually win headers without a four day run up. I treasure Jardi. . He's a monster and was immense last season in all but one game. I hope his legs haven't gone, but if Martin squeezes him out if the side...blimey, we will have a hell of a defence on our hands for this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughieslastminutegoal Posted 27 August, 2010 Share Posted 27 August, 2010 "Well done, Professor" would be better. A man who understands both the grammatical and stylistic use of the comma! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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