Hesitant To Post This, But Me I'm Out Of Patience

[cambsaint]

Regrettably I can't get to matches due mainly to my health and the distance.

I followed Saints from the late Div 3S days of the early sixties.

The money in the game means we cannot compare performances. For instance Paine and Channon would be like Bale or Walcott snatched away long before their potential was realised.

 

However one fact concerns me greatly about the start to this season and that is only one league goal from three games.Our inabilitry to score must be laid at AP's door as he is responsible for tactics, training, fitness and motivation.

We know the players have the ability, what is holding us back must either be in the minds, mutual understanding or fitness.

All the responsibility of AP.

I am not calling for his head quite yet, I have confidence that he will get it right, I think he is as good as we're likely to get, but he MUST get it right immediately.

( Unless we gave Martin O'Neill a massive 5 year contract and a big budget and let him build and grow his own team.)

Come to think that is exactly what Pardew has got.

[David Strover]

1 Norwich sacked their manager to turn round their season.

 

I keep seeing this being bandied about - did Norwich not lose their opening home game 7-1? After three games their league record was P-3 W-0 D-1 L-2 GF-3 GA-10. I would imagine that most managers playing in League One after being relegated from the Division above would get the sack with a similar record. After two games Norwich had draw one and lost one and has scored 2 goals and let in 8.

 

After two games Saints have lost one, drawn one and scored 1 goal and let in 2. To achieve Norwich's lamentable start to last season we will have to lost 8-2 at Rovers. All things are possible but I can't help feeling that there are many, many knee-jerk reactions on this forum.

 

I said when we went down that it might take us five or six years to crawl out of this division, much like it did last time. At the moment I still hold to that prediction but even I don't think it's the end of the world because of our poorish start to the season.

 

If we win 6-1 on Saturday will be the greatest team outside of the Premiership....until the next game.

[Deano6]

1 Norwich sacked their manager to turn round their season.

 

I keep seeing this being bandied about - did Norwich not lose their opening home game 7-1? After three games their league record was P-3 W-0 D-1 L-2 GF-3 GA-10. I would imagine that most managers playing in League One after being relegated from the Division above would get the sack with a similar record. After two games Norwich had draw one and lost one and has scored 2 goals and let in 8.

 

After two games Saints have lost one, drawn one and scored 1 goal and let in 2. To achieve Norwich's lamentable start to last season we will have to lost 8-2 at Rovers. All things are possible but I can't help feeling that there are many, many knee-jerk reactions on this forum.

 

I said when we went down that it might take us five or six years to crawl out of this division, much like it did last time. At the moment I still hold to that prediction but even I don't think it's the end of the world because of our poorish start to the season.

 

If we win 6-1 on Saturday will be the greatest team outside of the Premiership....until the next game.

 

Nutshell.

[St Landrew]

Completely agree with you, TT. After the first game against Plymouth, I kept my temper. Usually, I'm the last person to boil over and let go, but this season there are no excuses. No tummy upsets, no injuries, no bad form, no anything. Losing simply will not do. I have no problem with losing the odd game or two over the season, but I expect to win, and win well, at home, or at the worst, to be held to a draw. Maybe, I'll let the odd hiccup go. But it's gone. That's it..! There can be no more crap now. Saints aren't in this league for laughs. This is the real deal and it is to win the league handsomely, or at the very, very worst get promotion, by being in the top two. Nothing else is acceptable. I'm sure Nicloa Cortese won't put up with it for too long. Losing patience after a few games, [fortunately, two of them being from the League Cup, meaning that not too much damage has already been done], is entirely understandable, after all that has gone before. This team should be hitting the ground running and beating teams. The fact that it isn't shows there is something clearly not right.

 

Calm, calm, calm.

[Deppo]

this season there are no excuses. No tummy upsets, no injuries, no bad form, no anything.

 

But players do suffer from dips in form. Please see Wayne Rooney at the World cup.

Players do struggle with injuries. Please see Torres at the world cup.

 

If world class players are not immune to this sort of thing why on earth should L1 footballers?

[doddisalegend]

Completely agree with you, TT. After the first game against Plymouth, I kept my temper. Usually, I'm the last person to boil over and let go, but this season there are no excuses. No tummy upsets, no injuries, no bad form, no anything. Losing simply will not do. I have no problem with losing the odd game or two over the season, but I expect to win, and win well, at home, or at the worst, to be held to a draw. Maybe, I'll let the odd hiccup go. But it's gone. That's it..! There can be no more crap now. Saints aren't in this league for laughs. This is the real deal and it is to win the league handsomely, or at the very, very worst get promotion, by being in the top two. Nothing else is acceptable. I'm sure Nicloa Cortese won't put up with it for too long. Losing patience after a few games, [fortunately, two of them being from the League Cup, meaning that not too much damage has already been done], is entirely understandable, after all that has gone before. This team should be hitting the ground running and beating teams. The fact that it isn't shows there is something clearly not right.

 

Calm, calm, calm.

 

No excuses, it's not good enough, blah, blah, blah so what are you going to do about it? if you were the chairman or the manager it would be worth you talking like that but your a supporter so unless you plan to stop supporting saints you might as well just live with it. You (and your not alone) can rant and rave all you like but the only thing you can do is put up with it or walk away. I suppose if enough of you disgruntled had enough fans boycott saints matches and write to NC you can get AP out and replace him with someone who knows what he's doing like.............derry.

[Whitey Grandad]

However one fact concerns me greatly about the start to this season and that is only one league goal from three games.

 

Have I missed one? One goal from two league games, or three goals from three games against teams in the same division. Let's not do ourselves down without good reason.

 

I do tend to agree with your argument, though.

[St Landrew]

No excuses, it's not good enough, blah, blah, blah so what are you going to do about it? if you were the chairman or the manager it would be worth you talking like that but your a supporter so unless you plan to stop supporting saints you might as well just live with it. You (and your not alone) can rant and rave all you like but the only thing you can do is put up with it or walk away. I suppose if enough of you disgruntled had enough fans boycott saints matches and write to NC you can get AP out and replace him with someone who knows what he's doing like.............derry.

 

Of course I have to live with it. Doesn't mean I'm not going to show when I'm upset. If I didn't care I wouldn't get upset in the first place. This season I expect..! That's all.

 

I think you lot know me well enough, by now, that I don't moan for any old reason.

[Cascadia Saint]

[doddisalegend]

Of course I have to live with it. Doesn't mean I'm not going to show when I'm upset. If I didn't care I wouldn't get upset in the first place. This season I expect..! That's all.

 

I think you lot know me well enough, by now, that I don't moan for any old reason.

 

There's a chance your expectations are to high. I'm not suprised we've been told that this year would be the year by the club, press, our own fans and the bookies. In fact we've been told it so much many people thought that the team only had to stroll on to the pitch and we would win. I've watched through the summer as people on this board proclaimed us champions before a ball was kicked. I watched on the 606 boards as saints fans full of themselves taunted league one rivals with our superior team and wads of cash. Now the truth that prehaps it might be a long hard season is starting to kick in and people don't like it. There is no reason we can't win the league or get promoted but it want be as easy as many thought the season is a long one and there will be highs and lows not just highs.

[captainchris]

read the other posts TT - you seem to have overlooked that we have been pants at the start of the season for years and it does not mean we are doomed.

 

Totally irrelevant !

[madruss]

 

 

 

 

 

However, and here's the punch line, after the true Saint that is ML arrived combined with his trust, faith and financial muscle and the FACT that we were in a weak Div III I do not find it acceptable to be patient, to accept disappointment, to be second-best any more. This time last year maybe, just maybe, but now hell no. Call me crazy, call me premature it makes no difference I still feel grossly let down that in four home games in front of a total of about 70,000 paying fans we have squeaked one cakey win against a penniless and poor Bournemouth. Is this a worse start than the last couple of seasons or what?

 

Was it that long ago with and less muscle we started the season above the likes of Everton, Villa or Man Citeh...and I'm gonna say it again, right now we're below Rochdale. Early in the season or not, this life long Saint finds that statement 100% unacceptable. Not with what ML has done for us and not with us being in Div III.

 

Pull yourselves together Saints team - immediately if not sooner!!

 

Have to say, that never ever happened. We always started the season badly. In fact in our best ever Premiership season (finishing 8th), we started the season with 2 points out of the first 4 games. We then went on to get to the FA Cup final as well. An amazing season. What if we'd given up after the first 2 games then? (ie like most people seem to be doing now...whilst completely ignoring the performance of the team)

[David Strover]

Was it that long ago with and less muscle we started the season above the likes of Everton, Villa or Man Citeh.

 

And now we are a League Division Three and all of the above are just memories - get used to it until it changes.

 

Our rivals are Rochdale et al and we deserve to be in this division because we were **** and got relegated - when and indeed if we get promoted as sometime in the future we'll deserve that too.

 

Anyone would think we were European Champions and regular FA Cup and League winners but a few years back.......

[TijuanaTim]

Have to say, that never ever happened. We always started the season badly. In fact in our best ever Premiership season (finishing 8th), we started the season with 2 points out of the first 4 games. We then went on to get to the FA Cup final as well. An amazing season. What if we'd given up after the first 2 games then? (ie like most people seem to be doing now...whilst completely ignoring the performance of the team)

 

"never ever happened", maybe I'm wrong (or maybe you're too liberal with your "never evers"), but I seem to recall a fine six or seven game undefeated run a few years ago in the Prem when we were in FACT above all those teams...I could be wrong, so please do the research and you'll find I most likely wasn't, as I said we are now below Rochdale.

[TijuanaTim]

Was it that long ago with and less muscle we started the season above the likes of Everton, Villa or Man Citeh.

 

And now we are a League Division Three and all of the above are just memories - get used to it until it changes.

 

Our rivals are Rochdale et al and we deserve to be in this division because we were **** and got relegated - when and indeed if we get promoted as sometime in the future we'll deserve that too.

 

Anyone would think we were European Champions and regular FA Cup and League winners but a few years back.......

 

 

Mate you "get used to it", a lot of us don't want to. Rochdale and the likes are insignificant little clubs compared to Southampton Football Club, if you yourself are "used to it", then can I politely suggest you support Aldershot or maybe Bournemouth as that will satisfy your comfort zone. Me I want to leave this quaint little division behind, spend a year or two progressing at the expense of Derby, Cov, Palace etc and get back in the top league...but who am I to judge, you're "used" to Div III, respectfully I say, it's all your's mate - we want better.

[Deppo]

Why do you keep writing "me"?

 

"Me I want to leave this quaint......"

 

and in the title "but me I'm out of patience"

 

Please stop it now.

[Alain Perrin]

 

Jesus. Two games iin. I'm not sure what's worse, 'doing a Leeds' and be top early, followed by months of you wrist slitters worrying about us blowing a lead every time we drop a point. Or dropping points early and having to sit through it now.

 

Two games in. Two good and genuinely unlucky performances (Orient and Bolton).

 

The majority of teams will come to SMS and park the bus in front of the goal. The team need to do what they're doing, keep plugging away, keep calm (ignoring you lot) and goals will come.

 

With respect, the teletext warriors who don't / won't / can't make it to games just need to relax. We are playing well and the results will follow.

 

 

.

[St Landrew]

There's a chance your expectations are to high. I'm not suprised we've been told that this year would be the year by the club, press, our own fans and the bookies. In fact we've been told it so much many people thought that the team only had to stroll on to the pitch and we would win. I've watched through the summer as people on this board proclaimed us champions before a ball was kicked. I watched on the 606 boards as saints fans full of themselves taunted league one rivals with our superior team and wads of cash. Now the truth that prehaps it might be a long hard season is starting to kick in and people don't like it. There is no reason we can't win the league or get promoted but it want be as easy as many thought the season is a long one and there will be highs and lows not just highs.

 

I'm not fooled. This won't be a canter. It was never going to be. But I do expect us to come out on top. And to look like doing so, soon. Last season we started -10 points down, and then gave other teams a potential 20 points start. I don't want anything remotely like that happening again.

[TijuanaTim]

Totally irrelevant !

 

 

Thank you CC, are we supposed to resign ourselve's to failure simply because we played badly on the first game of the season once (or more) before?? If that is the case we could just give our first few opponents the points, therefore not risking injury, suspension and the fans wouldn't have to pay knowing we're gonna lose WTF!!!

 

What's more Norwich last season is a horrible and small percentage example....let's just reflect how most successful teams start at home and it ain't by getting turned over by a poor team with 15 road defeats the previous season.

[TijuanaTim]

Why do you keep writing "me"?

 

"Me I want to leave this quaint......"

 

and in the title "but me I'm out of patience"

 

Please stop it now.

 

Stay on topic, lay off the personal attacks that you normally and so predictably deteriate too.

[Deppo]

Sorry TT. Me stop it now.

[dubai_phil]

Think the answer lies here on the home page of the OS.

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/Home/

 

The reason we ain't won.

 

Yep that looks awfully like a beer gut to me in the photo of Sir Rickie

 

Point proven

[TijuanaTim]

Sorry TT. Me stop it now.

 

Fair enough me old China

 

n.b. there was another 'me' in that statement ;-)

[madruss]

"never ever happened", maybe I'm wrong (or maybe you're too liberal with your "never evers"), but I seem to recall a fine six or seven game undefeated run a few years ago in the Prem when we were in FACT above all those teams...I could be wrong, so please do the research and you'll find I most likely wasn't, as I said we are now below Rochdale.

 

I meant it never ever happened at the START of the season, we have always started slowly, but it doesn't mean the rest of the season is defined by that poor start. What happened in game 5 of our best ever premiership. Season? We beat utd 1-0! Patience and perspective. We WILL get promoted

[TijuanaTim]

I meant it never ever happened at the START of the season, we have always started slowly, but it doesn't mean the rest of the season is defined by that poor start. What happened in game 5 of our best ever premiership. Season? We beat utd 1-0! Patience and perspective. We WILL get promoted

 

 

Fair enough Russ.

[alpine_saint]

 

Jesus. Two games iin. I'm not sure what's worse, 'doing a Leeds' and be top early, followed by months of you wrist slitters worrying about us blowing a lead every time we drop a point. Or dropping points early and having to sit through it now.

 

Two games in. Two good and genuinely unlucky performances (Orient and Bolton).

 

The majority of teams will come to SMS and park the bus in front of the goal. The team need to do what they're doing, keep plugging away, keep calm (ignoring you lot) and goals will come.

 

With respect, the teletext warriors who don't / won't / can't make it to games just need to relax. We are playing well and the results will follow.

 

 

.

 

Sneer, sneer, sneer.

 

And you cant even make your mind up if cup matches count or not, all in one sentence.

[Alain Perrin]

Sneer, sneer, sneer.

 

And you cant even make your mind up if cup matches count or not, all in one sentence.

 

Excellent point. Except there are two sentences. Two independent clauses.

 

Unless of course you're claiming that we've played more than two league games; Orient and Bolton were drab, chance-less affairs. Then I suggest you shut the **** up.

[alpine_saint]

Excellent point. Except there are two sentences. Two independent clauses.

 

Unless of course you're claiming that we've played more than two league games; Orient and Bolton were drab, chance-less affairs. Then I suggest you shut the **** up.

 

Nope. You are inferring we have had two good performances two games into the season. Spin, spin, spin.

 

"Drama queens", "Wrist slitters", "teletext warriors"; cut out all the childish abuse and have a bit more respect for the opinions of others.

[NickG]

Nope. You are inferring we have had two good performances two games into the season. Spin, spin, spin.

 

"Drama queens", "Wrist slitters", "teletext warriors"; cut out all the childish abuse and have a bit more respect for the opinions of others.

 

What makes you qualified to express that opinion ?

 

??

[alpine_saint]

??

 

Nope, you've lost me completely there.

[NickG]

thank god!

[alpine_saint]

thank god!

 

Loony logic has that effect on anyone.

[Deppo]

I agree with alpine saint on everything he has said on this thread.

[David Strover]

Mate you "get used to it", a lot of us don't want to. Rochdale and the likes are insignificant little clubs compared to Southampton Football Club, if you yourself are "used to it", then can I politely suggest you support Aldershot or maybe Bournemouth as that will satisfy your comfort zone. Me I want to leave this quaint little division behind, spend a year or two progressing at the expense of Derby, Cov, Palace etc and get back in the top league...but who am I to judge, you're "used" to Div III, respectfully I say, it's all your's mate - we want better.

 

What do you think of Manchester United supporters? 'Cause you sound like one - 'insignificant little clubs' indeed. Did I anywhere in my post say "oh and I really, really like losing to Tranmere and drawing at home to Leyton Orient'? Until we get promoted we are a League Division Three club - that is an indisputable fact and our past counts for nothing when considering the current circumstances.

[doddisalegend]

"never ever happened", maybe I'm wrong (or maybe you're too liberal with your "never evers"), but I seem to recall a fine six or seven game undefeated run a few years ago in the Prem when we were in FACT above all those teams...I could be wrong, so please do the research and you'll find I most likely wasn't, as I said we are now below Rochdale.

 

Well we'd have trouble doing that this season with two league matches under our belt.

[doddisalegend]

I'm not fooled. This won't be a canter. It was never going to be. But I do expect us to come out on top. And to look like doing so, soon. Last season we started -10 points down, and then gave other teams a potential 20 points start. I don't want anything remotely like that happening again.

 

Yet we still could have finished second with one more win last season and no -10. The way the team are playing I really can't see us going 10 games without winning. If we do I'll be more upset I'm sure.

[norwaysaint]

But players do suffer from dips in form. Please see Wayne Rooney at the World cup.

Players do struggle with injuries. Please see Torres at the world cup.

 

If world class players are not immune to this sort of thing why on earth should L1 footballers?

 

Nutshell

[tartanowl]

"never ever happened", maybe I'm wrong (or maybe you're too liberal with your "never evers"), but I seem to recall a fine six or seven game undefeated run a few years ago in the Prem when we were in FACT above all those teams...I could be wrong, so please do the research and you'll find I most likely wasn't, as I said we are now below Rochdale.

 

It's not that long ago that we were top of the Premiership at this stage and for quite a few more games. Now it means absolutely nothing.

 

Mate you "get used to it", a lot of us don't want to. Rochdale and the likes are insignificant little clubs compared to Southampton Football Club, if you yourself are "used to it", then can I politely suggest you support Aldershot or maybe Bournemouth as that will satisfy your comfort zone. Me I want to leave this quaint little division behind, spend a year or two progressing at the expense of Derby, Cov, Palace etc and get back in the top league...but who am I to judge, you're "used" to Div III, respectfully I say, it's all your's mate - we want better.

 

Rochdale may be a smaller club than Southampton and Sheffield Wednesday but like us both they are where they are on merit. We may want better but we are all currently third division clubs like it or not.

 

What do you think of Manchester United supporters? 'Cause you sound like one - 'insignificant little clubs' indeed. Did I anywhere in my post say "oh and I really, really like losing to Tranmere and drawing at home to Leyton Orient'? Until we get promoted we are a League Division Three club - that is an indisputable fact and our past counts for nothing when considering the current circumstances.

 

Spot on. I wish some of our fans would realise and think like this too.

[Saint_John]

...

Two games in. Two good and genuinely unlucky performances (Orient and Bolton).

 

The majority of teams will come to SMS and park the bus in front of the goal. The team need to do what they're doing, keep plugging away, keep calm (ignoring you lot) and goals will come.

 

With respect, the teletext warriors who don't / won't / can't make it to games just need to relax. We are playing well and the results will follow.

.

 

Good post, certain people should review those 2 games again.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_2/8935224.stm

 

Chances (8 good chances against 1) :-

Jason shot over from 5 yards.

Lee shot - post.

Richie free kick - Goal.

Orient only chance - Goal ( ? poor marking / Gk should have punched ??)

Lee shot - good save.

Richie header - good save.

Lee shot - very good save.

Lee header - post.

Dan shot over from 5 yards (? should he have used his right foot ?)

 

and the Bolton game

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/league_cup/8944370.stm

 

Chances (most of the play : 5 good chances against 1 in the first 85 mins)

Lee - shot saved.

(They missed another Lee shot which was saved)

Morgan cross - nearly og.

Bolton only shot in first half - Goal.

Adam shot just wide from 15 yards.

Jason - dribble and cross.

Rickie free kick just wide (side net).

(last 5 mins)

Bolton "rare foray into Saints half" - Davies full stretch at far post well wide.

Bolton shot saved by Kelvin after poor header by Dan.

[Frank's cousin]

Frank, Ron and I watch this all the time and if the players weren't carrying out the plan, Pardew who is most of the time standing passively making the odd note, even when the play stops for an injury, he makes no attempt to get the players attention. It seems to us that they are playing the way he wants. That Davis lumping it up front whoever is there is standard procedure, that the two wide men tucked in and the flat static midfield together with 11 back in defence at corners and no movement at attacking corners or covering outside the back post. With free kicks in range we shoot, we have no clever moves at anything it's all basic.

 

Hi

 

Must admit, have always been frustrated by Davis and his distribution. I can only assume that the players are not good enough to pass the ball forward and break quickly... I know its a completely different level, but its what I like about the German's in the WC, width, speed of the break, controlled passing and their keeper (only 21) hardly ever booted the ball in a very attacking, yet flexible 4 -2 -3-1... I know you need decent players to play that way, but I would like to see us try and do a bit more to... I know you have looked at this at many a game, and can understand the frustration, but my qestion is, is this a tactical naiviety from Pards, or that we over estimate what this group of players is capable of in terms of controlling a game at pace, from the back? Afterall we always struggled to break down sides that played a 4-5-1 defensive way, let alone those that parked the bus.

 

I think there have been glimpses of better play, and even watching the highlights, one or two moves seem promising. The media reports dont seem that bad, in that they simply highlight the lack of finishing as the reason for lack of points so welcome your thoughts.

 

Thing is though, are we too expectant of what is possible with these players or just Pards?

[Whitey Grandad]

My concerns about Davis's distribution is not so much that he hoofs it upfield as the fact that he usually overhits it or sends it into 'touch'.

[The Kraken]

Hi

 

Must admit, have always been frustrated by Davis and his distribution. I can only assume that the players are not good enough to pass the ball forward and break quickly... I know its a completely different level, but its what I like about the German's in the WC, width, speed of the break, controlled passing and their keeper (only 21) hardly ever booted the ball in a very attacking, yet flexible 4 -2 -3-1... I know you need decent players to play that way, but I would like to see us try and do a bit more to... I know you have looked at this at many a game, and can understand the frustration, but my qestion is, is this a tactical naiviety from Pards, or that we over estimate what this group of players is capable of in terms of controlling a game at pace, from the back? Afterall we always struggled to break down sides that played a 4-5-1 defensive way, let alone those that parked the bus.

 

I think there have been glimpses of better play, and even watching the highlights, one or two moves seem promising. The media reports dont seem that bad, in that they simply highlight the lack of finishing as the reason for lack of points so welcome your thoughts.

 

Thing is though, are we too expectant of what is possible with these players or just Pards?

 

Very good point FC. I think there's a few reasons why we tend to knock it long so often, particularly from Davis. First of all, while we'd like to see the ball played on the deck all the time, as you point out we are at a completely different level to Germany and will always be much more reliant on the safety-first, don't make a mistake approach. That however often leads to an over-reliance on the long ball, which is where the trade-off needs to be found.

 

But secondly, when you have someone like Lambert who will win much more than his fair share of high balls (which are often in a dangerous attacking area) you kind of begin to repeat where you've previously found success. Not since Beattie have I seen us have such a reliable outlet for winning or bringing down the long ball, so it's inevitable we will try to reproduce what has consistently worked before.

[Frank's cousin]

Very good point FC. I think there's a few reasons why we tend to knock it long so often, particularly from Davis. First of all, while we'd like to see the ball played on the deck all the time, as you point out we are at a completely different level to Germany and will always be much more reliant on the safety-first, don't make a mistake approach. That however often leads to an over-reliance on the long ball, which is where the trade-off needs to be found.

 

But secondly, when you have someone like Lambert who will win much more than his fair share of high balls (which are often in a dangerous attacking area) you kind of begin to repeat where you've previously found success. Not since Beattie have I seen us have such a reliable outlet for winning or bringing down the long ball, so it's inevitable we will try to reproduce what has consistently worked before.

 

Very true, and dont get me wrong, I am no all out purist, and understand that at this level with these players (and sadly at most premier clubs with the exception of the top sides) their is a limit to what we can expect and we must play to our strengths...how often have we heard comentators discuss sides that play 'nice' football, when referring to those who sit mid table... but I digress. Derry goes week in week out - sadly given that I am 500 miles away now my ST has been given up and I will only get to 3-4 games a season now, so dont have the advantage of seeing the full games. He rightly points pout that we often seem to go long and narrow, and Pards seems to give the impression that this is what he expects from his players... I do think its limited, as we struggle to find a way through defensive sides, which as we see more and more often, the fear of losing is what directs the modern game for most sides, so its park the bus away from home. Some clubs succeed by simply muscling their way through, and i am glad we dont go down that route, but as fans we have to decide what we want. Success at any price, or a desire to see the best possible football that our players are capable of?

 

Does Pards have enough tactical nous? I dont know, but I agree with Derry in that he perhaps needs to show more variation in our play and he is not giving the impression that he chnages things depending on the circumstances.

 

I still feel his job is to get us out of this division and if he does that we cant complain, so will see where we are at Christmas... Have a feeling, very soon all those chances are going to be taken and we will give someone a spanking... could it be this wekend?

[derry]

Hi

 

Must admit, have always been frustrated by Davis and his distribution. I can only assume that the players are not good enough to pass the ball forward and break quickly... I know its a completely different level, but its what I like about the German's in the WC, width, speed of the break, controlled passing and their keeper (only 21) hardly ever booted the ball in a very attacking, yet flexible 4 -2 -3-1... I know you need decent players to play that way, but I would like to see us try and do a bit more to... I know you have looked at this at many a game, and can understand the frustration, but my qestion is, is this a tactical naiviety from Pards, or that we over estimate what this group of players is capable of in terms of controlling a game at pace, from the back? Afterall we always struggled to break down sides that played a 4-5-1 defensive way, let alone those that parked the bus.

 

I think there have been glimpses of better play, and even watching the highlights, one or two moves seem promising. The media reports dont seem that bad, in that they simply highlight the lack of finishing as the reason for lack of points so welcome your thoughts.

 

Thing is though, are we too expectant of what is possible with these players or just Pards?

 

Honestly Frank, I think it is the way Pardew sets up and hamstrings his teams. I think the players are much better than the performances and managed by a manager that gives them the room to play, I'm sure we would see how good they are. For me the disappointment is the falling short of the potential they are capable of, rather than the safety first approach.

 

We have a collection of the best players in the league, yet instead of going for the jugular with confidence, we set up like a team that is frightened of it's own shadow. I really think that Pardew is affected by the demands of his second season, where no excuses will be entertained, as such he is communicating this nervousness to the players, hence the excuses regarding feeling the pressure etc. I think it is Pardew who is feeling the pressure and consequently transmitting his inhibitions to the players. His comment this week that he and the players are relieved to be getting away from SMS is indicative. A team that doesn't want to play at home because of the pressure FFS. With the players we have playing with confidence and freedom, we could be pulverising teams at SMS rather than behaving like timid losers. It is the managers job to get the players believing that they are unbeatable, rather than this timidity.

Edited 27 August, 2010 by derry

[CanadaSaint]

I really think that Pardew is affected by the demands of his second season, where no excuses will be entertained, as such he is communicating this nervousness to the players, hence the excuses regarding feeling the pressure etc. I think it is Pardew who is feeling the pressure and consequently transmitting his inhibitions to the players. His comment this week that he and the players are relieved to be getting away from SMS is indicative. A team that doesn't want to play at home because of the pressure FFS.

 

Dave, I agree with most of what you say, but (as I said on the Reasons or Excuses thread) I do think they feel an understandable pressure at SMS. I also think that this problem is compounded by the fact that other teams raise their game when they come here. It's further compounded by the fact that AP often seems to be out-coached in the half time interval.

 

This is why, for me, the Rovers game is a very big one for Pardew - and he has set it up to be a very big one with those comments. If we fail to perform well there, he's lost his only real excuse.

[derry]

Dave, I agree with most of what you say, but (as I said on the Reasons or Excuses thread) I do think they feel an understandable pressure at SMS. I also think that this problem is compounded by the fact that other teams raise their game when they come here. It's further compounded by the fact that AP often seems to be out-coached in the half time interval.

 

This is why, for me, the Rovers game is a very big one for Pardew - and he has set it up to be a very big one with those comments. If we fail to perform well there, he's lost his only real excuse.

 

Hi Bill, you sound more like your old self. Your right but as we demonstrated years ago, that reputations counted for nowt if the team played without fear or inhibitions often beating comprehensively, teams that were more talented but also fragile. It was always the hard nosed cussedness, sheer belligerence and the we'll show these buggers attitude that often won games we should have struggled to win. That sort of character always shines through and all the best teams have it.

[CanadaSaint]

Hi Bill, you sound more like your old self. Your right but as we demonstrated years ago, that reputations counted for nowt if the team played without fear or inhibitions often beating comprehensively, teams that were more talented but also fragile. It was always the hard nosed cussedness, sheer belligerence and the we'll show these buggers attitude that often won games we should have struggled to win. That sort of character always shines through and all the best teams have it.

 

Absolutely, and that "hard-nosed" quality was usually injected by an undisputed on-pitch leader - one player who demanded more of those around him, and who could pick the team up when it was flagging or losing its way. He was especially hard on the "floaters" and those who were quick to forget the "game plan" or their role within it.

 

Being an ex-pat I can't tell because a lot of it happens "off the ball" and out of camera view, but my suspicion is that we didn't have such a player last year and we still don't have one now.

 

As a consequence, other teams take advantage of our fragility rather than us taking advantage of theirs.

 

I thought Hammond was going to be that kind of player but that doesn't seem to have happened yet.

 

And now he might be replaced by Guly, who is extremely unlikely to fulfill that kind of role.

[SaintRichmond]

Completely agree with you, TT. After the first game against Plymouth, I kept my temper. Usually, I'm the last person to boil over and let go, but this season there are no excuses. No tummy upsets, no injuries, no bad form, no anything. Losing simply will not do. I have no problem with losing the odd game or two over the season, but I expect to win, and win well, at home, or at the worst, to be held to a draw. Maybe, I'll let the odd hiccup go. But it's gone. That's it..! There can be no more crap now. Saints aren't in this league for laughs. This is the real deal and it is to win the league handsomely, or at the very, very worst get promotion, by being in the top two. Nothing else is acceptable. I'm sure Nicloa Cortese won't put up with it for too long. Losing patience after a few games, [fortunately, two of them being from the League Cup, meaning that not too much damage has already been done], is entirely understandable, after all that has gone before. This team should be hitting the ground running and beating teams. The fact that it isn't shows there is something clearly not right.

 

Calm, calm, calm.

 

That is the crux of the matter, Cortese is working to a Five year plan don't forget, and this is already the SECOND year

 

Rose coloured glass wearers on here may come up with excuses, but Cortese won't take a blind bit of notice once he's had enough of No Tactics Pardew

[derry]

Absolutely, and that "hard-nosed" quality was usually injected by an undisputed on-pitch leader - one player who demanded more of those around him, and who could pick the team up when it was flagging or losing its way. He was especially hard on the "floaters" and those who were quick to forget the "game plan" or their role within it.

 

Being an ex-pat I can't tell because a lot of it happens "off the ball" and out of camera view, but my suspicion is that we didn't have such a player last year and we still don't have one now.

 

As a consequence, other teams take advantage of our fragility rather than us taking advantage of theirs.

 

I thought Hammond was going to be that kind of player but that doesn't seem to have happened yet.

 

And now he might be replaced by Guly, who is extremely unlikely to fulfill that kind of role.

 

As for that leader on the pitch, whilst he was hard on his own team, he was demoralising to play against because he was such a high class player. Then again there was a high proportion of 'in your face' characters. He now sits next to me at SMS having bought his first season ticket.

 

It is a long time since we had a leader or leaders on the pitch. The wearing of an armband doesn't make a leader. When Cloughie went to Derby he brought in Dave Mackay to be the leader, at Notts Forest, John McGovern but all his teams were full of difficult, hard nosed players, Burns, O'Neill, Lloyd etc. Shankly's teams were the same. Nowadays Chelsea and Man Utd reflect their managers images. The players we bring in really need to be less fragile and more hard nosed. I think the players reflect the managers fragility.

[TijuanaTim]

It's not that long ago that we were top of the Premiership at this stage and for quite a few more games. Now it means absolutely nothing.

 

 

 

Rochdale may be a smaller club than Southampton and Sheffield Wednesday but like us both they are where they are on merit. We may want better but we are all currently third division clubs like it or not.

 

 

 

Spot on. I wish some of our fans would realise and think like this too.

 

Each of you and David carry on and settle for us being like Rochdale, that's your perogative - so God bless you for that. Whatever leaves you content Some of us want and expect more. And yes I would rather be playing and rivaling Man U than your perception of what should be our appropriate level rival - (again) Rochdale.