Hesitant To Post This, But Me I'm Out Of Patience

[TijuanaTim]

Let me see win a cup and finish 5th without the 10pt penalty or with one more win the last year finish second. Frankly Clifford if thats what we're being offered I'll take it thanks.

 

Low expectations my respected friend, also what's in a name? I also thought the World of (Jason) Dodd, if that is who you mean. I met the guy and was cool as y'like, that was, however, until we went down to farrton for that goddam 1-0 reverse which initiated our decline and their (then) resurgence..he basically spent 90 minutes hiding and making himself as small as possible. If he thought he was in a 'hostile environment' then he should try going down that place as a fan....total kick in the balls to all of us!!

[doddisalegend]

Low expectations my respected friend, also what's in a name? I also thought the World of (Jason) Dodd, if that is who you mean. I met the guy and was cool as y'like, that was, however, until we went down to farrton for that goddam 1-0 reverse which initiated our decline and their (then) resurgence..he basically spent 90 minutes hiding and making himself as small as possible. If he thought he was in a 'hostile environment' then he should try going down that place as a fan....total kick in the balls to all of us!!

 

Low expectations? I'm a supporter what have my expectations got to do with anything. Plenty of people have high expectations and it appears they're all having a misreable time supporting saints at the moment. Honestly if saints won another cup this year and finished top six it would be a good season for me. Would it be a good season for NC? probably not, but that's his problem not mine. To be honest as a fan I'm probably in the minority but I wouldn't be bothered if we never got back to the EPL (the EPL has destroyed the english game with money IMO) quite like to get backto the championship but if we don't it's not actually going to stop me supporting saints so it's not a big issue for me.

 

As for the name I always liked Dodd great servant of the club good player IMO shame he tarnished his reputation with some fans with his management stint at St Mary's.

[alpine_saint]

TT, we are where we are. We don't have a divine right to be anywhere and you only have to look at all of the other teams who have fallen on hard times to see that SFC is not immune to the outrageous fortunes of the football league. The beauty of sport is that there are no givens. If there were, what would be the point. Pardew has his work cut out, as do the players. They need support but many here have already decided that Pardew is useless and the squad poor. I am looking forward to things turning round but if they don't, life goes on.

 

What is this cobblers ?

 

Yes, we've had a god-awful 5 years, but we are out of that now. Debt-free, PLC rule-free, with ownership and off-field management intent on bringing back the good times.

 

Pardew has been given every device and support needed to deliver, and it still aint happening and the excuses roll on.

 

He wanted to be judged after 18 months: There are 5 left and it aint looking good.

[alpine_saint]

When AP arrived I appreciated the 'no excuses' atmosphere he brought. We weren't good enough; we had lost our winning habit; etc. I had grown tired of many years of excuses. Last season ended with an acceptance that with -10 points, no pre-season and a demoralised team to start the season with, it wasn't bad going to finish the way we did. And the club endorsed the idea, that next season there was to be no excuses because nothing which gave us a bad start and a difficult season was no longer there.

 

I always felt that the pre-season was wrong in virtually every way, and didn't seem to build towards our readiness for Plymouth. The "you just wait for the next game" came and went without any real changes. Every game collected an excuse of one sort or another.

 

We know what our results have been since the start, now. We have also heard the excuses, which denies the 'no excuses' promises. From all that I think I understand how TT feels. I actually expected better this time around and I am surprised if that wasn't the case for all of us.

 

End of the world? No. Sackcloth and ashes? No. But unless things turn around very quickly it can become remarkably similar to last year.

 

Great post.

[sadoldgit]

What is this cobblers ?

 

Yes, we've had a god-awful 5 years, but we are out of that now. Debt-free, PLC rule-free, with ownership and off-field management intent on bringing back the good times.

 

Pardew has been given every device and support needed to deliver, and it still aint happening and the excuses roll on.

 

He wanted to be judged after 18 months: There are 5 left and it aint looking good.

 

Some people's excuses are other people's reasons.

 

The thread says, me I am out of pateince. Thing is with you Alps you never had any to start with.

 

The good times? Yeah, because we won everything going in the past.

 

Last year we won a cup, had a competitive team and but for the minus 10 points would have been strong contenders.

 

THis season is only 2 league games old but you have us written off already.

 

You have it all down to Pardew right? If what FF tells us is true and Pardew is one of 4 people on the transfer committe, and you think a lot of the problems are down to lack of transfer activity so far, logic dictates that the infamous Alpine spleen should be vented in the direction of the 4 man transfer committee.

 

Thing is, Cortese sits on that committee, and he is fireproof, right?

 

You need to get some persepctive mate. I know you don't go to matches but those that do say that the main problem is not converting chances. Me, I'd be more worried if we were not making chances.

 

In the summer you moaned that we had sorted out the defence. Within days the defence was sorted.

 

Now you moan about midfield. Guly has signed.

 

Give these people (and us) a break. Pardew and Cortese ar professional people working to a budget. The decisions they make will either bring success or not. If the answer is not, I suspect that thobbing purple vein on your forehead will explode but do you know what, the world will keep turning.

 

Tell us Alps, what will make you happy? Even when we were in the promised land of the Premiership you found plenty to complain about.

 

"Ain't looking good" - last season was our most competitive for years. Most people here enjoyed it and saw that the manager was working hard and taking us in the right direction. To say it is all doom and gloom after 2 league games is crazy, even by your standards Alps.

[dune]

Pardew has been given every device and support needed to deliver, and it still aint happening and the excuses roll on.

 

He wanted to be judged after 18 months: There are 5 left and it aint looking good.

 

You're right. I hope the opening two league games were just a blip and we now go on an inspired run and everyone tells me and you we were wrong, but I just can't see it happening.

[alpine_saint]

Some people's excuses are other people's reasons.

 

The thread says, me I am out of pateince. Thing is with you Alps you never had any to start with.

 

The good times? Yeah, because we won everything going in the past.

 

Last year we won a cup, had a competitive team and but for the minus 10 points would have been strong contenders.

 

THis season is only 2 league games old but you have us written off already.

 

You have it all down to Pardew right? If what FF tells us is true and Pardew is one of 4 people on the transfer committe, and you think a lot of the problems are down to lack of transfer activity so far, logic dictates that the infamous Alpine spleen should be vented in the direction of the 4 man transfer committee.

 

Thing is, Cortese sits on that committee, and he is fireproof, right?

 

You need to get some persepctive mate. I know you don't go to matches but those that do say that the main problem is not converting chances. Me, I'd be more worried if we were not making chances.

 

In the summer you moaned that we had sorted out the defence. Within days the defence was sorted.

 

Now you moan about midfield. Guly has signed.

 

Give these people (and us) a break. Pardew and Cortese ar professional people working to a budget. The decisions they make will either bring success or not. If the answer is not, I suspect that thobbing purple vein on your forehead will explode but do you know what, the world will keep turning.

 

Tell us Alps, what will make you happy? Even when we were in the promised land of the Premiership you found plenty to complain about.

 

"Ain't looking good" - last season was our most competitive for years. Most people here enjoyed it and saw that the manager was working hard and taking us in the right direction. To say it is all doom and gloom after 2 league games is crazy, even by your standards Alps.

 

Not even going to bother to reply because as usual you've resorted to personal abuse.

[alpine_saint]

You're right. I hope the opening two league games were just a blip and we now go on an inspired run and everyone tells me and you we were wrong, but I just can't see it happening.

 

Agreed. I will be delighted to be wrong, but doubt that will happen.

[Deppo]

Not even going to bother to reply because as usual you've resorted to personal abuse.

 

What? Where has he abused you? You really are crazy.

[alpine_saint]

What? Where has he abused you? You really are crazy.

 

At least three counts of playing the man and not the ball, and some complete untruths, like me moaning about the defence. I only ever referred to replacements for Antonio, Papa, cover for Schneiderlin, second goalkeeper and maybe cover for Rickie. Not the defence. Also that I moaned in the PL. I never frequented this site or its forebears back then.

[Deppo]

You're right. I hope you're ok after that onslaught.

[alpine_saint]

You're right. I hope you're ok after that onslaught.

 

Sarcasm is all thats left when you are wrong, isnt it ?

[SaintRichmond]

Hahaha. Blackpool are higher in the league than Liverpool and Everton...using your logic Blackpool are a better team than Liverpool and Everton....BONKERS!!!

 

Yet again you miss the point

 

Reference was made that Saints had made a poor start, 1 point out of 6, but it was only August

 

Fair enough, but Carlisle, Oldham, Charlton, Sheff Wed, have 7 out of 9, and it is only August for them as well

 

We have dropped 5 Home points against not very good Sides, why can't you see that ??

[The9]

Barclays Premier League table

 

few things come to mind

 

1) we just played well against the team that is 5th best in best league in the world

2) Liverpool's season is over and are in relegation battle

3) Man U have lost the title and can only hope for European place.

 

Sarcasm really doesn't suit you, I should think most people have just assumed you're an idiot.

[alpine_saint]

Sarcasm really doesn't suit you, I should think most people have just assumed you're an idiot.

 

deleted

[The9]

Guess where Norwich were after two matches last season?

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/LeagueTable/0,,10280~20090815,00.html

 

Look at the top two in that table neither got promoted (one in fact finished behind us in the table) really two whole league matches tells you **** all about the table in may.

 

Whilst constantly resorting to "look at Norwich last season" is somewhat misleading given that there are very few other examples of sides getting utterly thrashed in their first game and winning the division, there's a lot to be said for the view that we could take any two games from last season and make a league table of it.

 

eg Walsall home and Huddersfield home, or if you want to be pessimistic, Bristol Rovers and Swindon home.

 

We're all dealing in degrees of probability here, just from different perspectives.

 

I'm slightly concerned but still confident that we're at least going to match last season's performance, which would see us in the Play-Offs - and then there's the Guly Factor, and what he might bring.

[dubai_phil]

Yet again you miss the point

 

Reference was made that Saints had made a poor start, 1 point out of 6, but it was only August

 

Fair enough, but Carlisle, Oldham, Charlton, Sheff Wed, have 7 out of 9, and it is only August for them as well

 

We have dropped 5 Home points against not very good Sides, why can't you see that ??

 

I am extremely NOT happy that we have dropped points. I am concerned that the two games in the league so far will put extra pressure on a team already burdened by expectations.

 

I am concerned that we still have not addressed the "lack of an Antonio/Waigo" option. I welcome the signing of Guly as being the correct SPECIFICATION of player that we need in the middle of the park, BUT like others on here AND AP himself I worry that he will take time to settle.

 

But, I do not feel the wrist slitting is a sensible option YET. Anyone ever see that Stephen King movie The Mist? You know where the bloke shoots his family to save them from the monster from hell? only to be rescued by the Marines 10 seconds later?

 

The FACT is that

 

Lallana

Lambert

Hammond

Schneiderlin

 

All picked up injuries during Pre-Season and came into the NEW season short on fitness physically and in terms of game time. Not to mention losing a new "Star Signing" that had this forum opening the Champagne and celebrating promotion already.

 

Now, I will criticise AP for not getting cover in early - BUT cover for all FOUR of those players? This forum proposes to buy FOUR extra players as cover for the spine of our team? That would have meant signing SIX players in June, July and August. Sorry, but that was never going to happen even if we WERE Man City.

 

AP tried the options in pre-season hell, I even saw Pulis play - we really DID struggle with injuries.

 

We did not win our first two league games because we missed chances. Our players weren't SHARP enough.

 

Lack of match fitness in the spine of the team because of missing pre-season work through injury is a FACT. It is not an excuse it is a fact.

 

I will judge the team and AP after they have played a few more games and are FIT.

Edited 26 August, 2010 by dubai_phil

[ohwhenthesaints]

I am extremely NOT happy that we have dropped points. I am concerned that the two games in the league so far will put extra pressure on a team already burdened by expectations.

 

I am concerned that we still have not addressed the "lack of an Antonio/Waigo" option. I welcome the signing of Guly as being the correct SPECIFICATION of player that we need in the middle of the park, BUT like others on here AND AP himself I worry that he will take time to settle.

 

But, I do not feel the wrist slitting is a sensible option YET. Anyone ever see that Stephen King movie The Fog? You know where the bloke shoots his family to save them from the monster from hell? only to be rescued by the Marines 10 seconds later?

 

The FACT is that

 

Lallana

Lambert

Hammond

Schneiderlin

 

All picked up injuries during Pre-Season and came into the NEW season short on fitness physically and in terms of game time. Not to mention losing a new "Star Signing" that had this forum opening the Champagne and celebrating promotion already.

 

Now, I will criticise AP for not getting cover in early - BUT cover for all FOUR of those players? This forum proposes to buy FOUR extra players as cover for the spine of our team? That would have meant signing SIX players in June, July and August. Sorry, but that was never going to happen even if we WERE Man City.

 

AP tried the options in pre-season hell, I even saw Pulis play - we really DID struggle with injuries.

 

We did not win our first two league games because we missed chances. Our players weren't SHARP enough.

 

Lack of match fitness in the spine of the team because of missing pre-season work through injury is a FACT. It is not an excuse it is a fact.

 

I will judge the team and AP after they have played a few more games and are FIT.

 

The Mist.

[dubai_phil]

The Mist.

 

Thx, close enough but changed now

[tartanowl]

Yet again you miss the point

 

Reference was made that Saints had made a poor start, 1 point out of 6, but it was only August

 

Fair enough, but Carlisle, Oldham, Charlton, Sheff Wed, have 7 out of 9, and it is only August for them as well

 

We have dropped 5 Home points against not very good Sides, why can't you see that ??

 

7 out of 9 is a great start but we will drop points at times during the season as well. It's a disappointing start for you but it's a bit early to be panicking. A good run in your next few games will see you right up there at the business end of the league.

[scotty]

What? Where has he abused you? You really are crazy.

 

At least three counts of playing the man and not the ball, and some complete untruths, like me moaning about the defence. I only ever referred to replacements for Antonio, Papa, cover for Schneiderlin, second goalkeeper and maybe cover for Rickie. Not the defence. Also that I moaned in the PL. I never frequented this site or its forebears back then.

 

You're right. I hope you're ok after that onslaught.

 

Sarcasm is all thats left when you are wrong, isnt it ?

 

 

I didnt see anything particularly abusive there either. I sometimes agree and sometimes disagree with alpine, and certainly dont think he deserves the flak he consistently draws, but I would have said SOG's post was more reasoned than abusive.

 

imho of course

[doddisalegend]

Whilst constantly resorting to "look at Norwich last season" is somewhat misleading given that there are very few other examples of sides getting utterly thrashed in their first game and winning the division, there's a lot to be said for the view that we could take any two games from last season and make a league table of it.

 

eg Walsall home and Huddersfield home, or if you want to be pessimistic, Bristol Rovers and Swindon home.

 

We're all dealing in degrees of probability here, just from different perspectives.

 

I'm slightly concerned but still confident that we're at least going to match last season's performance, which would see us in the Play-Offs - and then there's the Guly Factor, and what he might bring.

 

Hardly constantly resorting. It is a fact Norwich were in a worse place in the table than us after two matches last season they went on to the win the league quite easily. I could understand all this out pouring of frustration 10-12 games in but two games in is just over the top IMO.

[alpine_saint]

Hardly constantly resorting. It is a fact Norwich were in a worse place in the table than us after two matches last season they went on to the win the league quite easily. I could understand all this out pouring of frustration 10-12 games in but two games in is just over the top IMO.

 

4 games. More if you count probably the worst pre-season in years.

 

But WTF, I am sure this mystical "click" will occur before Saturday....

 

..or maybe the next Saturday...

 

..or maybe the Tuesday after that...

[SnailOB]

4 games. More if you count probably the worst pre-season in years.

 

But WTF, I am sure this mystical "click" will occur before Saturday....

 

..or maybe the next Saturday...

 

..or maybe the Tuesday after that...

 

That is a bit of nonsense

 

4 games !!

 

2 league games (the importnat ones)

 

The others

 

Bournemouth in cup which we won

Bolton in cup - Premier League in a narrow defeat where we created more that they did

 

Pre Season - agree, a bit wasted BUT against higher/better opposition without 4 of our main players.........

[doddisalegend]

4 games. More if you count probably the worst pre-season in years.

 

But WTF, I am sure this mystical "click" will occur before Saturday....

 

..or maybe the next Saturday...

 

..or maybe the Tuesday after that...

 

Oh we're counting cup games this season. Only last season people kept telling me cup games don't count in the league so we can't use them as evidence the team are playing well/bad. I must really try harder to keep up with rules changes on this forum.

[Saint_clark]

2 games in and out of patience?

Oh dear.

[jamesfp1]

Norwich first 4 last season

 

League L 7-1

Cup W 4-0

League D 1-1

League L 1-2

 

Saints this season

 

League L 0-1

Cup W 2-0

League D 1-1

League L 0-1

 

 

They were probably a bit annoyed aswell. They won their next game 5-2.

 

We will win ours, stop moaning.

Edited 26 August, 2010 by jamesfp1

[The9]

Hardly constantly resorting. It is a fact Norwich were in a worse place in the table than us after two matches last season they went on to the win the league quite easily. I could understand all this out pouring of frustration 10-12 games in but two games in is just over the top IMO.

 

Practically every thread on this Forum about our poor start mentions Norwich last season at some point. It's an anomaly unlikely to be repeated any time soon, rather than a convenient indicator of how poor starts can lead to success - and it's not even that similar to our start in the first place.

 

Even if we lose the next 4 we can still refer to Quinn/Keane's Sunderland, or look at Palace under Dowie circa 2003 or Hull's late run into the Prem - but none of these are typical, they're exceptional or everyone would be doing it.

 

As it happens I agree with you that the criticism is OTT, but we haven't got the results and improvement will come from Saints, not from relating the situation to other past anomalies, when for every one of those there are 23 other teams not doing the same thing.

[The9]

4 games. More if you count probably the worst pre-season in years.

 

But WTF, I am sure this mystical "click" will occur before Saturday....

 

..or maybe the next Saturday...

 

..or maybe the Tuesday after that...

 

Strangely, last year's mystical "click" happened with the old rejects plus Harding and Lambert giving an excellent account of themselves for 60 minutes against Birmingham - but the 2nd Round of the League Cup was after we'd played 4 league games last time around. After that we only lost one game to Bristol Rovers out of 14 until Brighton home, with confidence increasing all the time (though we drew too many).

 

Funnily enough, when you look at who we played last season in the league and where they ended up (all in the Play-Offs), our first results don't look all that bad now :

 

Football League One Southampton 1-1 Millwall 08-08-2009

English League Cup Southampton 2-0 Northampton 11-08-2009

Football League One Huddersfield 3-1 Southampton 15-08-2009

Football League One Swindon 1-0 Southampton 18-08-2009

Football League One Southampton 1-1 Brentford 22-08-2009

English League Cup Southampton 1-2 Birmingham

[alpine_saint]

Strangely, last year's mystical "click" happened with the old rejects plus Harding and Lambert giving an excellent account of themselves for 60 minutes against Birmingham - but the 2nd Round of the League Cup was after we'd played 4 league games last time around. After that we only lost one game to Bristol Rovers out of 14 until Brighton home, with confidence increasing all the time (though we drew too many).

 

Funnily enough, when you look at who we played last season in the league and where they ended up (all in the Play-Offs), our first results don't look all that bad now :

 

Football League One Southampton 1-1 Millwall 08-08-2009

English League Cup Southampton 2-0 Northampton 11-08-2009

Football League One Huddersfield 3-1 Southampton 15-08-2009

Football League One Swindon 1-0 Southampton 18-08-2009

Football League One Southampton 1-1 Brentford 22-08-2009

English League Cup Southampton 1-2 Birmingham

 

Brentford ??

[The9]

I said "first results", which I could happily define as the first 3 if I wish - you seem to have chosen to ignore Millwall (promoted), Swindon (P-O runners-up) and Huddersfield (PO SF losers) in pursuit of a frankly spurious point.

 

I will readily agree we were utter shart at Swindon too, but the improvement was tangible from Birmingham on.

 

Not that it has any relevance to this season anyway, the preparation should be like chalk and cheese for taking a team of League favourites on a hot streak for most of the previous season compared to the CCC kiddie loser relegation admin refugees of 2009's summer.

Edited 26 August, 2010 by The9

[alpine_saint]

I said "first results", which I could happily define as the first 3 if I wish - you seem to have chosen to ignore Millwall (promoted), Swindon (P-O runners-up) and Huddersfield (PO SF losers) in pursuit of a frankly spurious point.

 

I know I was being completely pedantic. Sorry. But Brentford is one of those that really f**ked me off last season.

[The9]

I know I was being completely pedantic. Sorry. But Brentford is one of those that really f**ked me off last season.

 

Ah well, you live by the sword... etc.

 

I didn't actually go to that one, went to V and got let down by Oasis instead, so I can't put it in context.

[kpturner]

4 games. More if you count probably the worst pre-season in years.

 

But WTF, I am sure this mystical "click" will occur before Saturday....

 

..or maybe the next Saturday...

 

..or maybe the Tuesday after that...

 

OK - I am convinced. We are never going to click and the season is a disaster already. I wish I hadn't bought a season ticket now - waste of money. I think I will just chuck it in the bin and not go to any more matches - it will be far easier just to wait for every dodgy result then come on here and post "I told you so" (or words to that effect). In fact, even if we do have a decent run of results, I am pretty sure I can find something to moan about. The manager is bloody useless BTW and I have it on very good authority that he tells the players to hoof it up field as often as possible

[OldNick]

OK - I am convinced. We are never going to click and the season is a disaster already. I wish I hadn't bought a season ticket now - waste of money. I think I will just chuck it in the bin and not go to any more matches - it will be far easier just to wait for every dodgy result then come on here and post "I told you so" (or words to that effect). In fact, even if we do have a decent run of results, I am pretty sure I can find something to moan about. The manager is bloody useless BTW and I have it on very good authority that he tells the players to hoof it up field as often as possible

 

Do I sense a bit of frustration with one of lifes optimists KP?

[alpine_saint]

Do I sense a bit of frustration with one of lifes optimists KP?

 

Nah, hes just being sarcastic.

[kpturner]

Do I sense a bit of frustration with one of lifes optimists KP?

It might be frustration......or it might be something else entirely ;-)

[Frank's cousin]

Going a long way back to TTs original post.... We need firstly to find some sort of acceptance that: 1) we are in L1 because that is the level we have attained/sunk to in the last 5 years, 2) Its not the late 70s and early 80s anymore. Yes mistakes were made by board and management, but the realitty is that when clubs stopped sharing the gate, wages rocketed fuelled by Sky and UEFA cash, the big got bigger and the rest fought it out amongst themselves... things have changed so much. We will never see a time when the curent European footballer of the year signs for Southampton. (I read that at the time Keegan came on £152,000 a year - about £2500 a week in todays terms, how much would a Messi cost in wages now?)

 

We still in many respects think of ourselves as a 'bigger club' with some devine right to win everything at this level and 'get back where we belong' - well right now we belong where we are - and promotion needs to BE EARNED, not justified based on the average of teh last 30 years or so.

 

Yes we have had good luck with Markus helping to drag us out of the financial mire and his investment has helped create a reasonable side. But as he and NIcola have said WE MUST LIVE WITHIN OUR MEANS and if we want more, we need to fill teh ground week in week out, every game. If we can not do that, we have no right to expect more investment and better players.

 

If we look at the slow start objectively, sure its dissapointing, but when did we ever start well? I can only think of the Strachan year in which we followed 3 draws with 3 wins and so were 4th in teh prem after 6 games.... still started with 3 draws and 3 points from 9, a win on Saturady will see us with 4/9...

 

I know Derry quite well and we could debate the width and tactical stuff for quite some time...all in good humour and pleasent frustration. ;-) And I do agree to some extent that Pards does seem to maybe not see soem of the things that seem obvious to us in the stands... but what if its the players that simply forget, or in the pressure of the game make wrong decisions? We have to remember that we are talking about L1 players here, who despite what we want to believe are in L1 for a reason and being able to implement a full tactical plan week in week out with the pressure of the favourites tag - was never going to be easy...afterall were not England one of the WC favourites?

 

I know its frustrating, I know our expectations are rightly high, and so dissapointment is natural when we dont see the results we 'should be getting with this squad' - but i will stick with what I said this time last year in that Pards had 18 months - and its where we are at the other end of the season that counts.

 

All being as it should we will be promoted, but it will be hard faught, not easy and expect some oddities along the way. The debate about whether Pards is right for the next stages is another one all together, and we should avoid perhaps letting that cloud the current judgement?

 

Markus, may he RIP, has only just sadly left us. I hope we do him proud not in just what we achieve, but in how we do it. And thats not just the way we play, but the way us as fans respond to 'triumph and diaster' and 'treat those imposters...'

 

May sound corny and pretentious, but it does not diminish the sentiment.

[alpine_saint]

I know its frustrating, I know our expectations are rightly high, and so dissapointment is natural when we dont see the results we 'should be getting with this squad' - but i will stick with what I said this time last year in that Pards had 18 months - and its where we are at the other end of the season that counts.

 

 

No, 18 months is approximately Xmas, not the other end of the season.

 

This is going to be resolved by NC one way or the other long before then.

[Whitey Grandad]

Ok, we're not playing as well as we'd like at the moment but nobody could be so simple-minded as to assuming the tthe rest of the season will follow the first two weeks? All the independent football commentators seem to think that we're going to be fine and we're the bookies' favourites so I would give it another few weeks before we all start slitting our wrists and beating our chests. On the evidence that I've seen I see no cause for concern. We are obviously short of a couple of players and I'm certain that the management are aware of this. One of the problems with loan players is that there is no continuity from one season to the next.

[derry]

Going a long way back to TTs original post.... We need firstly to find some sort of acceptance that: 1) we are in L1 because that is the level we have attained/sunk to in the last 5 years, 2) Its not the late 70s and early 80s anymore. Yes mistakes were made by board and management, but the realitty is that when clubs stopped sharing the gate, wages rocketed fuelled by Sky and UEFA cash, the big got bigger and the rest fought it out amongst themselves... things have changed so much. We will never see a time when the curent European footballer of the year signs for Southampton. (I read that at the time Keegan came on £152,000 a year - about £2500 a week in todays terms, how much would a Messi cost in wages now?)

 

We still in many respects think of ourselves as a 'bigger club' with some devine right to win everything at this level and 'get back where we belong' - well right now we belong where we are - and promotion needs to BE EARNED, not justified based on the average of teh last 30 years or so.

 

Yes we have had good luck with Markus helping to drag us out of the financial mire and his investment has helped create a reasonable side. But as he and NIcola have said WE MUST LIVE WITHIN OUR MEANS and if we want more, we need to fill teh ground week in week out, every game. If we can not do that, we have no right to expect more investment and better players.

 

If we look at the slow start objectively, sure its dissapointing, but when did we ever start well? I can only think of the Strachan year in which we followed 3 draws with 3 wins and so were 4th in teh prem after 6 games.... still started with 3 draws and 3 points from 9, a win on Saturady will see us with 4/9...

 

I know Derry quite well and we could debate the width and tactical stuff for quite some time...all in good humour and pleasent frustration. ;-) And I do agree to some extent that Pards does seem to maybe not see soem of the things that seem obvious to us in the stands... but what if its the players that simply forget, or in the pressure of the game make wrong decisions? We have to remember that we are talking about L1 players here, who despite what we want to believe are in L1 for a reason and being able to implement a full tactical plan week in week out with the pressure of the favourites tag - was never going to be easy...afterall were not England one of the WC favourites?

 

I know its frustrating, I know our expectations are rightly high, and so dissapointment is natural when we dont see the results we 'should be getting with this squad' - but i will stick with what I said this time last year in that Pards had 18 months - and its where we are at the other end of the season that counts.

 

All being as it should we will be promoted, but it will be hard faught, not easy and expect some oddities along the way. The debate about whether Pards is right for the next stages is another one all together, and we should avoid perhaps letting that cloud the current judgement?

 

Markus, may he RIP, has only just sadly left us. I hope we do him proud not in just what we achieve, but in how we do it. And thats not just the way we play, but the way us as fans respond to 'triumph and diaster' and 'treat those imposters...'

 

May sound corny and pretentious, but it does not diminish the sentiment.

 

Frank, Ron and I watch this all the time and if the players weren't carrying out the plan, Pardew who is most of the time standing passively making the odd note, even when the play stops for an injury, he makes no attempt to get the players attention. It seems to us that they are playing the way he wants. That Davis lumping it up front whoever is there is standard procedure, that the two wide men tucked in and the flat static midfield together with 11 back in defence at corners and no movement at attacking corners or covering outside the back post. With free kicks in range we shoot, we have no clever moves at anything it's all basic.

[ohwhenthesaints]

Frank, Ron and I watch this all the time and if the players weren't carrying out the plan, Pardew who is most of the time standing passively making the odd note, even when the play stops for an injury, he makes no attempt to get the players attention. It seems to us that they are playing the way he wants. That Davis lumping it up front whoever is there is standard procedure, that the two wide men tucked in and the flat static midfield together with 11 back in defence at corners and no movement at attacking corners or covering outside the back post. With free kicks in range we shoot, we have no clever moves at anything it's all basic.

 

Regarding the points in bold (in order):

 

- Davis always looks for an option short before he punts it, but rarely gets it.

- Schneiderlin looked like he had been told to push forward more against Bolton and we have just signed an attacking midfielder.

- Not seen this. Barnard at least has been left forward for corners.

- We have Rickie Lambert and he is good at freekicks, let him shoot. Our only goal in the league so far this season was his freekick!

[Ian the Red]

A couple of points:

 

1 Norwich sacked their manager to turn round tehir season

2 AP has had plenty of time; this is his team.

3 AP has had plenty of time to strengthen the squad; to do so now 4 matches into the season has wasted the pre season.

4 After 2 league matches last season we were 15 points behind the leaders, after 3 we were 18 points

 

I believe that these are correct facts, not sure of the exact date when Norwich sacked their manager but think it was after 2 or 3 games.

 

Like TT I have been watching Saints since the late 60's and even I am growing a little impatient.

 

A win on Saturday will go along way to reduce the pressure but we need a long unbeaten run, consisting mainly of wins in order to stand out against the rest of the league.

 

WIFM

[The9]

A couple of points:

 

1 Norwich sacked their manager to turn round tehir season

2 AP has had plenty of time.; this is his team

3 AP has had plenty of time to strengthen the squad; to do so now 4 matches into the season has wasted the pre season.

4 After 2 league matches last season we were 15 points behind the leaders, after 3 we were 18 points

 

I believe that these are correct facts, not sure of the exact date when Norwich sacked their manager but think it was after 2 or 3 games.

 

Like TT I have been watching Saints since the late 60's and even I am growing a little impatient.

 

A win on Saturday will go along way to reduce the pressure but we need a long unbeaten run, consisting mainly of wins in order to stand out against the rest of the league.

 

WIFM

 

Mental.

[exile on main street]

"Ok, we're not playing as well as we'd like at the moment but nobody could be so simple-minded as to assuming the tthe rest of the season will follow the first two weeks?"

 

this.

[TijuanaTim]

A couple of points:

 

1 Norwich sacked their manager to turn round tehir season

2 AP has had plenty of time; this is his team.

3 AP has had plenty of time to strengthen the squad; to do so now 4 matches into the season has wasted the pre season.

4 After 2 league matches last season we were 15 points behind the leaders, after 3 we were 18 points

 

I believe that these are correct facts, not sure of the exact date when Norwich sacked their manager but think it was after 2 or 3 games.

 

Like TT I have been watching Saints since the late 60's and even I am growing a little impatient.

 

A win on Saturday will go along way to reduce the pressure but we need a long unbeaten run, consisting mainly of wins in order to stand out against the rest of the league.

 

WIFM

 

Very inteligently put, I cannot imagine too many disagreeing with that.

[The9]

A couple of points:

 

1 Norwich sacked their manager to turn round tehir season

2 AP has had plenty of time; this is his team.

3 AP has had plenty of time to strengthen the squad; to do so now 4 matches into the season has wasted the pre season.

4 After 2 league matches last season we were 15 points behind the leaders, after 3 we were 18 points

 

I believe that these are correct facts, not sure of the exact date when Norwich sacked their manager but think it was after 2 or 3 games.

 

Very inteligently put, I cannot imagine too many disagreeing with that.

 

Oh really ?

 

1) Fair point, Bryan Gunn was obviously crap (he'd already just taken them down) and Paul Lambert was a good boss. Pardew has only presided over improvement and success at Saints until now.

2) No, he's had one season and 2 matches, and we've won most of them since he had his own team in place since, say, last October.

3) He already did most of that last season and we were one of the top form teams for most of last season, there's no reason to think that won't continue with our resources.

4) Completely irrelevant, we had a 10 point deduction and a totally different squad composition and new manager.

 

I wouldn't say 3 games in a row was "a long unbeaten run", but actually if we won 3 games and then lost one in the League all season long from now we'd be on 100 points after 46 games, which would see us promoted easily.

 

P 46 W 33 D 1 L 12 Pts 100.

Edited 26 August, 2010 by The9

[manji]

Very intelligently put,I cannot imagine too many disagreeing with that.

[doddisalegend]

A couple of points:

 

1 Norwich sacked their manager to turn round tehir season

2 AP has had plenty of time; this is his team.

3 AP has had plenty of time to strengthen the squad; to do so now 4 matches into the season has wasted the pre season.

4 After 2 league matches last season we were 15 points behind the leaders, after 3 we were 18 points

 

I believe that these are correct facts, not sure of the exact date when Norwich sacked their manager but think it was after 2 or 3 games.

 

Like TT I have been watching Saints since the late 60's and even I am growing a little impatient.

 

A win on Saturday will go along way to reduce the pressure but we need a long unbeaten run, consisting mainly of wins in order to stand out against the rest of the league.

 

WIFM

 

Norwich won three League matches in August and September out of 10 games 9 of those with a new manager . They picked up 13 out of 30pts in the first 10 games and were 13pts behind league leaders Leeds at the time yet they still went on to win the league. The league is a marthon not a sprint after two games it's hardly time to get upset.

[latter day saint]

Norwich won three League matches in August and September out of 10 games 9 of those with a new manager . They picked up 13 out of 30pts in the first 10 games and were 13pts behind league leaders Leeds at the time yet they still went on to win the league. The league is a marthon not a sprint after two games it's hardly time to get upset.

Exactly ! would rather start slowly & finish strongly then streak into the lead & then run into "the wall" before the finish.