"Guly" Signing Confirmed

[alpine_saint]

Its not a wind up, nobody is that persistent. He was exactly the same on 606 ........ 8 years ago!

 

Never been on 606

[alpine_saint]

His question has been answered dozens of times now. A signing with risk, so we remove the risk by making it a loan with option to buy. A sensible strategy and one we can all appreciate.

 

All but one that is. Because Alpine still takes that to mean 'risky loan' and makes the same non-point for 9 pages.

 

I don't believe he's actually THAT stupid, so is it a wind-up? An attempt to keep the alpine show going? Sheer stubbornness, negativity or Pardew-hate? Or a combination of all?

 

Nope, you really dont get it, do you ?

 

By the time we wake up and realise that he wasnt worth the risk, promotion could be beyond us. Hence my comment yesterday that his loan is LOW risk for the club, but HIGH risk for promotion.

[Window Cleaner]

Never been on 606

 

then you haven't lived, went on there once, they made me use some weird user name like Mulberry Wheelbarrow or something like that, couldn't say why.

[alpine_saint]

Really amused how this thread has become all about playing the man (me) and not the ball, despite me sticking to the issue of Goolie's transfer fairly consistently...

[alpine_saint]

There's two levels of risk here.

 

The risk of signing a player who won't fit in.

 

The risk of throwing away the first half of the season if we don't make the right moves in the transfer market.

 

The second risk is what worries me. Clearly the first is mitigated by the structure of the deal.

 

A man with a brain. My compliments, sir

[alpine_saint]

Sad thing is i called an amnesty on Alpine for some good things he said recently.

 

Having read this thread and others in the last few days lpine is starting to do my head in.

He's about to go back on my ignore list. Could I ask fellow posters to stop copying his posts in their responses to him

 

sorry alps but I have just put you in the room 101 hole.

 

Why must my opinion on everything meet with your approval ?

 

This is f**king bizarre.

[Window Cleaner]

Why must my opinion on everything meet with your approval ?

 

This is f**king bizarre.

 

to quote Jane Austen

 

Bingley "then I have your blessing(or approval)?"

Darcy "do you need it? "

Bingley "No, but I'd like to know I have it all the same"

[Deppo]

Really amused how this thread has become all about playing the man (me) and not the ball, despite me sticking to the issue of Goolie's transfer fairly consistently...

 

Bingo! He's admitted trolling, mods! Have him!

[Barry the Badger]

Ultimately, yes, the deal is more risky than buying a proven english quality player directly from the championship or something.

 

I think where the difference is, is that most people are able to trust AP in his tranfer dealings, given his excellent record for us.

 

If others don't feel they trust AP to bring in good players then fair enough, but I think he's done more than enough to suggest he knows a good player for this level when he sees one.

[Deanovski]

Why cant people just back off alpine abit? like seriously i think every one knows what he means.

Especially when this clearly is set up by Nicola and Pardew may treat him like another Papa, when we could have signed some one who we know can do a job like Danns or Stock for example.

[Scummer]

we could have signed some one who we know can do a job like Danns or Stock for example.

 

A proven player you mean? Sort of like Dickson is? But apparently that signing is a failure as well.......

[sotonist]

But what are the right moves? Clearly Pardew feels this is it and I trust him with that.

 

a fair question. but a five month loan suggests pards isn't sure either and with supposedly the best financial backing in the division and a full pre-season behind him, i'd hoped for a more decisive start to the season and to hit the ground running for a change.

 

It was all very well saying pre-season results mean nothing, but we've carried the form into the start of the season now.

 

We've had some unfortunate injuries and niggles all come right at the start of the season i know, but we've not replaced some of the players that would have been second choice in those positions, so I'm not sure if that's a valid excuse.

 

That said, I'm hopeful that Dickson will come good, Guly will be the attacking midfielder we needed (though his hilights videos seem to show mostly goals from deep or the penalty spot) and that Richardson will improve our right flank when he's fit.

[Deanovski]

A proven player you mean? Sort of like Dickson is? But apparently that signing is a failure as well.......

 

Every one is basing he can do a job cos he did 3 of our players in one game, he played for Brentford after all..

[Minty]

This is f**king bizarre.

 

No, I'll tell you what I think is bizarre.

 

That so many people, on all sides, can drag a thread out so f*cking long on complete f*cking bullsh!t.

 

What kind of perverse satisfaction do people get trying to pick the bones out of every single word someone else has typed, and trying to ram it back down their throats in new and exciting (or rather the same tired and boring) ways.

 

Seriously. Some people need to get a f*cking life. Kudos to those who try to battle through and rise above it all... I used to try but it's getting the better of me now.

 

(And yes, I appreciate that me posting this probably won't help matter, and will be equally slated, but I'm past caring now. I could've added this to any number of threads... I came back to SaintsWeb to try and post more on here to read about Saints and discuss things more, but it's clear that there is so little quality on here, so I really don't see the point.)

[hypochondriac]

a fair question. but a five month loan suggests pards isn't sure either and with supposedly the best financial backing in the division and a full pre-season behind him, i'd hoped for a more decisive start to the season and to hit the ground running for a change.

 

It was all very well saying pre-season results mean nothing, but we've carried the form into the start of the season now.

 

We've had some unfortunate injuries and niggles all come right at the start of the season i know, but we've not replaced some of the players that would have been second choice in those positions, so I'm not sure if that's a valid excuse.

 

That said, I'm hopeful that Dickson will come good, Guly will be the attacking midfielder we needed (though his hilights videos seem to show mostly goals from deep or the penalty spot) and that Richardson will improve our right flank when he's fit.

 

Not necessarily. All it does is reduce any risk (there is risk with ALL players). It's a really good idea IMO.

[Deanovski]

No, I'll tell you what I think is bizarre.

 

That so many people, on all sides, can drag a thread out so f*cking long on complete f*cking bullsh!t.

 

What kind of perverse satisfaction do people get trying to pick the bones out of every single word someone else has typed, and trying to ram it back down their throats in new and exciting (or rather the same tired and boring) ways.

 

Seriously. Some people need to get a f*cking life. Kudos to those who try to battle through and rise above it all... I used to try but it's getting the better of me now.

 

(And yes, I appreciate that me posting this probably won't help matter, and will be equally slated, but I'm past caring now. I could've added this to any number of threads... I came back to SaintsWeb to try and post more on here to read about Saints and discuss things more, but it's clear that there is so little quality on here, so I really don't see the point.)

 

agreed

Edited 24 August, 2010 by Deanovski
mess up

[fire&skill]

[sotonist]

Not necessarily. All it does is reduce any risk (there is risk with ALL players). It's a really good idea IMO.

I won't dispute that it's a good idea. I only hope we've done a Skacel and made the player sign so that he can't just back out at the end of the loan and try to sign for someone else.

[The Kraken]

Why cant people just back off alpine abit? like seriously i think every one knows what he means.

Especially when this clearly is set up by Nicola and Pardew may treat him like another Papa, when we could have signed some one who we know can do a job like Danns or Stock for example.

 

I think this attitude is probably the nub of it, to be honest. If you'd have asked me, at the start of the transfer window who I would have said the most important signings would be after filling the right back vacancy, I would have said getting in a new, strong, attacking centre midfielder. Neil Danns would be an ideal candidate for that role. That said, we tried to buy him in January when Palace were totally up the spout financially, and couldn't agree personal terms then. In other words, he either wanted far too much money than we can afford, or he wouldn't drop a division.

 

So it's no good saying "we should sign someone like Danns" without looking at the bigger picture; they may not want to come here. So Pardew has a difficult job of either finding someone else of similar quality who will want to come, or taking a huge gamble and waiting right to the end of the transfer window to see if Danns will actually change his mind.

 

So of course it's more of a risk to go for Guly; Pardew would be a liar if he said it wasn't. However, he clarified that by saying "we think he can handle it". Which means that Pardew and Les Reed's staff have all had a good look at him and decided he can do a very job for us. Only time will tell if he can. But the comparison with Danns is completely unrealistic if the player in question will not drop down a division; we can only obtain players who can actually be enticed to the club.

[Deanovski]

I think this attitude is probably the nub of it, to be honest. If you'd have asked me, at the start of the transfer window who I would have said the most important signings would be after filling the right back vacancy, I would have said getting in a new, strong, attacking centre midfielder. Neil Danns would be an ideal candidate for that role. That said, we tried to buy him in January when Palace were totally up the spout financially, and couldn't agree personal terms then. In other words, he either wanted far too much money than we can afford, or he wouldn't drop a division.

 

So it's no good saying "we should sign someone like Danns" without looking at the bigger picture; they may not want to come here. So Pardew has a difficult job of either finding someone else of similar quality who will want to come, or taking a huge gamble and waiting right to the end of the transfer window to see if Danns will actually change his mind.

 

So of course it's more of a risk to go for Guly; Pardew would be a liar if he said it wasn't. However, he clarified that by saying "we think he can handle it". Which means that Pardew and Les Reed's staff have all had a good look at him and decided he can do a very job for us. Only time will tell if he can. But the comparison with Danns is completely unrealistic if the player in question will not drop down a division; we can only obtain players who can actually be enticed to the club.

 

Agreed, infact im more excited about Guly than if we signed Danns. I was just pointing out Alpines view which seems to go over alot of peoples heads.

[saintscottofthenortham]

I think this attitude is probably the nub of it, to be honest. If you'd have asked me, at the start of the transfer window who I would have said the most important signings would be after filling the right back vacancy, I would have said getting in a new, strong, attacking centre midfielder. Neil Danns would be an ideal candidate for that role. That said, we tried to buy him in January when Palace were totally up the spout financially, and couldn't agree personal terms then. In other words, he either wanted far too much money than we can afford, or he wouldn't drop a division.

 

So it's no good saying "we should sign someone like Danns" without looking at the bigger picture; they may not want to come here. So Pardew has a difficult job of either finding someone else of similar quality who will want to come, or taking a huge gamble and waiting right to the end of the transfer window to see if Danns will actually change his mind.

 

So of course it's more of a risk to go for Guly; Pardew would be a liar if he said it wasn't. However, he clarified that by saying "we think he can handle it". Which means that Pardew and Les Reed's staff have all had a good look at him and decided he can do a very job for us. Only time will tell if he can. But the comparison with Danns is completely unrealistic if the player in question will not drop down a division; we can only obtain players who can actually be enticed to the club.

 

Spot on.

 

These are the same people who were pi**ing and moaning that we weren't signing anyone, now we have they moan about who we have signed. Danns this, Stock that... STFU.

[Ken Tone]

to quote Jane Austen

 

Bingley "then I have your blessing(or approval)?"

Darcy "do you need it? "

Bingley "No, but I'd like to know I have it all the same"

 

Blimey! I'd heard of "Godwin's law", that ''As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1", but I don't think I've previously seen demonstrated the Saints Forum corollary that, "All discussions about new signings eventually involve a Jane Austen quote related to Alpine Saint" ;-)

 

K.

[wild-saint]

HAs anyone considered the possibility that AP has no money to spend? Maybe there has not been a financial committment moving forward by the new owner? If this is a possibility then clearly we can only bring in loans. I thiink it unliekly that any player we consider a certainty to improve the team is unlikely to be available on loan (unless its craig bellamy).

 

So maybe guly is a risk worth taking based on the fact that a loan signing is the only option.

 

Thoughts?

[The Kraken]

HAs anyone considered the possibility that AP has no money to spend? Maybe there has not been a financial committment moving forward by the new owner? If this is a possibility then clearly we can only bring in loans. I thiink it unliekly that any player we consider a certainty to improve the team is unlikely to be available on loan (unless its craig bellamy).

 

So maybe guly is a risk worth taking based on the fact that a loan signing is the only option.

 

Thoughts?

 

Given that the deal is an intial 5 month loan with the option to buy in January, I find it unlikely.

[hypochondriac]

I won't dispute that it's a good idea. I only hope we've done a Skacel and made the player sign so that he can't just back out at the end of the loan and try to sign for someone else.

 

Yep. I say it's a good idea with that proviso. If it is watertight and we get first call on him then it is much better than signing him outright IMO no matter what his ability.

[wild-saint]

Given that the deal is an intial 5 month loan with the option to buy in January, I find it unlikely.

 

Unlikely? Why? an option to buy would be a wise option regardless of money bearing in mindevery clubs financial situation can change quite rapidly. its also not beyond the realms of possibility that we only secured the loan by giving the Cesena the impression that we would be happy to buy if it all worked out well.

[saintjay77]

It's not what he says but how he says it.

 

I understand that which is why I think "Everyone" needs to take a breath 1st sometimes. If Alps thought before typing sometimes it might not come accross in the same way. That said however, unless everyone else also takes a breath before typing there will also be many ready to madly react to anything he says. It doesnt matter if he has a point or not anymore IMO. Im not pointing Alps out as there are a few names on here that get and give the same reaction to almost every thread and it gets pretty teadious sometimes. I like the debate but the groundhog day behaviour is starting to grate a little.

[hypochondriac]

I understand that which is why I think "Everyone" needs to take a breath 1st sometimes. If Alps thought before typing sometimes it might not come accross in the same way. That said however, unless everyone else also takes a breath before typing there will also be many ready to madly react to anything he says. It doesnt matter if he has a point or not anymore IMO. Im not pointing Alps out as there are a few names on here that get and give the same reaction to almost every thread and it gets pretty teadious sometimes. I like the debate but the groundhog day behaviour is starting to grate a little.

 

If Alpine was in anyway conciliatory and understood that others were entitled to an opposite view or a view slightly less extreme than his negative one without being 'happy-clappy' or 'sheep' then this board would be a lot more pleasant and I think Alpine would find that people would be more courteous to him as well. Treat others how you would like to be treated, maybe if he spent less time laughing or being patronising towards other people's quite valid opinions then he would get a lot more respect and understanding.

[SaintNeil90]

Can't be bothered to read what everyones talking about on here but does anyone know if we have international clearance yet.

[Matthew Le God]

Unlikely? Why? an option to buy would be a wise option regardless of money bearing in mindevery clubs financial situation can change quite rapidly. its also not beyond the realms of possibility that we only secured the loan by giving the Cesena the impression that we would be happy to buy if it all worked out well.

 

You are forgetting the club has said that Markus' plan remains unchanged. Also that Saints will have paid Cesena a significant fee for this loan. Guly was a key player for them last season, clubs don't just give 28 year olds away for nothing on loan. Saints will have paid for his loan in the form of a loan fee and also a very high % of his wages, if not 100% of them.

[The Kraken]

I agree, although signing Guly doesn't rule out signing others does it.

 

Maybe it's stupid, but signing an unknown, or at least unknown to us, gives the potential to be **** or brilliant, whereas Danns would probably be good but not brilliant. I prefer the risk, although obviously I'd have welcomed Danns.

 

I'm not sure I prefer the risk, but I can totally understand why it's been taken.

 

We know that AP has said he would like to bring in players from the Championship, or of Championship quality. But out of all our signings, how many have actually done that? Fonte was the flagship signing, Jaidi did it but it's looking unlikely he'd survive in the Champ right now. Butterfield came down but was just a squad player at Palace with decreasing likelihodd of game time, and will likely be the same for us. And Connolly was crocked so maybe not worth the risk to a Champ club.

 

So other than that, we have had to "make do" with buying the best League 1 has to offer, with the likes of Hammond, Lambert, Barnard, Richardson, Dickson, Harding and Puncheon.

 

So, assuming we can't actually attract a Championship quality player on the right terms (Danns has turned us down before, the Stock deal didn't happen for unknown reasons), the next best option is to again try and go for the best that League 1 can offer. So we get a Dean Hammond. But we've already got one of those, so what's the point in spending a good deal of money on someone who doesn't actually make us any better?

 

Gabriel Marcotti describes Guly as Championship standard, so its a fair and unbiased view of his ability. He wants to come here. And he's on loan for the first 5 months, so it's low risk. A risk very, very worth while taking. Particular if your primary targets simply won't take the drop in division.

Edited 24 August, 2010 by The Kraken

[Toomer]

Why the feck can't people wait till he has pulled on the sash and shown us what he can do then pass judgement, if he turns out to be a gem we could be on a winner, if after the loan period he proves to be cack we send him home.

[Barry the Badger]

I'm not convinced that the loan part of the deal means that pardew is unsure, if it was a doable deal then why not.

 

I might be buying something, and be absolutely certain it's perfect, doesn't mean I won't ask the shop if I can take it back if I don't like it, it makes sense to get that reassurance even if you don't feel you need it.

[saintjay77]

If Alpine was in anyway conciliatory and understood that others were entitled to an opposite view or a view slightly less extreme than his negative one without being 'happy-clappy' or 'sheep' then this board would be a lot more pleasant and I think Alpine would find that people would be more courteous to him as well. Treat others how you would like to be treated, maybe if he spent less time laughing or being patronising towards other people's quite valid opinions then he would get a lot more respect and understanding.

 

Agree with that and it can be said for a few people on here I think.

[The Kraken]

Is there a link to Marcotti's comments on him?

 

Supposedly on GM's twitter.

 

"Big dude, not very Brazilian, great seasons last yr, level is mid-table Champ IMHO

[saintjay77]

Is there a link to Marcotti's comments on him?

 

 

Think that was on Twitter?

[hypochondriac]

Agree with that and it can be said for a few people on here I think.

 

Bust as Alpine clearly provokes the biggest reaction and since his comments on occasion seem SO extreme, perhaps getting him to tone them down (or at least allow others to have a differing point of view without ridicule) would be the best place to start? Fair comment?

[Wycombe Saint]

Alps, i think you often make some good points and then sometimes i disagree with you. As you can see from my number of posts i very rarely put my opinion in words however through reading this forum for the last couple of years i must commend your persistance. I would have given up a long time ago after all the abuse.

 

I must admit that i am getting very tired of reading through all this crap!

[hypochondriac]

I'm not convinced that the loan part of the deal means that pardew is unsure, if it was a doable deal then why not.

 

I might be buying something, and be absolutely certain it's perfect, doesn't mean I won't ask the shop if I can take it back if I don't like it, it makes sense to get that reassurance even if you don't feel you need it.

 

That's my thoughts on it as well. Even if we signed Torres, it would be great to structure the deal so that we can have him on loan for five months. There are a number of reasons why we might not feel the transfer fee is the way to go in five months time. It doesn't automatically follow that Pardew has doubts about the player.

[MorningtonCrescent]

No, I'll tell you what I think is bizarre.

 

That so many people, on all sides, can drag a thread out so f*cking long on complete f*cking bullsh!t.

 

What kind of perverse satisfaction do people get trying to pick the bones out of every single word someone else has typed, and trying to ram it back down their throats in new and exciting (or rather the same tired and boring) ways.

 

Seriously. Some people need to get a f*cking life. Kudos to those who try to battle through and rise above it all... I used to try but it's getting the better of me now.

 

(And yes, I appreciate that me posting this probably won't help matter, and will be equally slated, but I'm past caring now. I could've added this to any number of threads... I came back to SaintsWeb to try and post more on here to read about Saints and discuss things more, but it's clear that there is so little quality on here, so I really don't see the point.)

 

There, that feels better Minty! FWIW, I wholeheartedly agree. This place has become tiresome beyond imagination. Too many "personalities" who have an axe to grind against someone for some previous "spat". No-one able to express their views without vitriol and sarcasm.

 

Some previously regular posters now reduced to lurking or moved away to other things

Some new posters who contribute and then decide its just not worth the grief.

 

What makes a good online discussion forum is the broad range of people and the differing view points, but as with many things these days there is little tolerance for an alternative view.

 

One other very wrong with today's "society" is the need for instant "wins" or gratification. This is another reason why this place has dissolved.

 

Saints must win every game, in a 46 "mile" race. People must get one over on someone with a differing view through "clever" words or simple put downs.

 

No-one is listening to anybody anymore.

 

Markus would be so proud.

[alpine_saint]

Bust as Alpine clearly provokes the biggest reaction and since his comments on occasion seem SO extreme, perhaps getting him to tone them down (or at least allow others to have a differing point of view without ridicule) would be the best place to start? Fair comment?

 

Nope, you are trying to make it out to be completely one-sided. Not having that.

 

It is my prerogative to be negative about everything that happens to SFC if thats what I think (of course, this is not the case at all in reality). Just as it is NickGs prerogative to spin everything to do with SFC, if he wishes. His approach is every bit as annoying as I understand mine to be. He is as equally dismissive of an opposing opinion as I am accused of being.

 

I have toned down my act MASSIVELY over the last year. I rarely resort to personal abuse any more, despite the huge amount being chucked at me. And I swear I am not out for the rise, I am simply expressing my thoughts, emotions warts and all..

 

I feel sad that no one is able to convice me with weight of argument, and just feel the need to take the p*ss and use phrases such as "wrist slitter".

 

Suicide is not a f**king joke, btw.

Edited 24 August, 2010 by alpine_saint

[The Kraken]

Nope, you are trying to make it out to be completely one-sided. Not having that.

 

It is my prerogative to be negative about everything that happens to SFC if thats what I think (of course, this is not the case at all in reality). Just as it is NickGs prerogative to spin everything to do with SFC, if he wishes. His approach is every bit as annoying as I understand mine to be. He is as equally dismissive of an opposing opinion as I am accused of being.

 

I have toned down my act MASSIVELY over the last year. I rarely resort to personal abuse any more, despite the huge amount being chucked at me. And I swear I am not out for the rise, I am simply expressing my thoughts, emotions warts and all..

 

I feel sad that no one is able to convice me with weight of argument, and just feel the need to take the p*ss and use phrases such as "wrist slitter".

 

Suicide is not a f**king joke, btw.

 

People do try though; it's just perceived that you sometimes ignore or patronise such attempts at genuine discussion to fend off or indeed further aggravate the vitriol.

 

I've made a constructive argument why this is a good, low risk signing on the previous page (posts 479 and 494, I think), whereby I've accepted this is a higher-risk strategy than it could be but outlined reasons why we may have done the deal. Happy to hear your comments on those.

[saintjay77]

Anyway........ Has he got international clearance yet????

[saintjay77]

I have a feeling we'll only know when the teamsheet is up!

 

yeah im thinking the same but expecting he wont be on it.

 

Just thought it was about time to get back onto Guly lol

[eelpie]

Anyway........ Has he got international clearance yet????

 

No, Alpine is not allowed to leave Switzerland.

[alpine_saint]

No, Alpine is not allowed to leave Switzerland.

 

Thank heavens I live in Austria then.

[Ewell]

No, I'll tell you what I think is bizarre.

 

That so many people, on all sides, can drag a thread out so f*cking long on complete f*cking bullsh!t.

 

What kind of perverse satisfaction do people get trying to pick the bones out of every single word someone else has typed, and trying to ram it back down their throats in new and exciting (or rather the same tired and boring) ways.

 

Seriously. Some people need to get a f*cking life. Kudos to those who try to battle through and rise above it all... I used to try but it's getting the better of me now.

 

(And yes, I appreciate that me posting this probably won't help matter, and will be equally slated, but I'm past caring now. I could've added this to any number of threads... I came back to SaintsWeb to try and post more on here to read about Saints and discuss things more, but it's clear that there is so little quality on here, so I really don't see the point.)

 

May I suggest you relaunch Marching In? I always enjoyed your forum!

[alpine_saint]

People do try though; it's just perceived that you sometimes ignore or patronise such attempts at genuine discussion to fend off or indeed further aggravate the vitriol.

 

I've made a constructive argument why this is a good, low risk signing on the previous page (posts 479 and 494, I think), whereby I've accepted this is a higher-risk strategy than it could be but outlined reasons why we may have done the deal. Happy to hear your comments on those.

 

I had a look at your posts. I am not comfortable that the risk has been well assessed, currently. And if we dont bring another CM in (which I doubt) rather a lot rides on him settling quick to our game.

 

I duly note Marcotti's comments, and hope he is right; we all know there is more to making an impact at a new club and League than raw talent alone.

 

As someone said a little earlier, the real acid test is what he does out on the field on Saturday (If the Italian FA get their thumbs out of their arses on time).

[trousers]

Not playing tonight according to Saints Twitter

[wightman35]

Anyway........ Has he got international clearance yet????

 

Nothing on the OS at 6.15!