"Pardew plays the waiting game" on Echo

[Gemmel]

Loans vs. permanent or vice-versa ?

 

There was a specific point about the balance between the two being made.

 

The post was with regard to loans, but it applies to both.

Just taking the 25 man rule within the prem, means that clubs will want to have as many wages covered as possible for players that are on their books, but not getting a game. On top of that If someone comes in with a half decent offer, they are likely to accept it.

That has not always been the case, when money wasn't a consideration and bigger squads gave clubs better depth and more to work with.

The financial state of football has taken away that luxury.

[moonraker]

My last contribution to this site, as you've all become a bunch a f u c k t a r d s.

 

What you're saying "alps" is that Pardew should be approaching whosoever he chooses, waving wads of cash at player, agent and club, in order to secure his target players, regardless of cost?

 

You have no grasp on the reality of football finance and how ML/NC are keen to prevent Saints going down the same path as so many others.

 

Some players are available, some are not.

Some players want long term deals on big wages, others are only "affordable" if we loan them first to see how they fit with our squad/style/league

Some players just won't drop down to Div 3 - no matter what

 

AP has stated he won't sign "journeymen looking for one last pay day".. he's not interested in good/great players if their motivation is money and not the challenge Saints offers. Do you take issue with that?

 

AP has stated he will sign another player or two - his "previous" for signings has proven excellent.... who moaned when we signed an unknown striker from an Italian Serie A club? Many did. Who moaned when signed a bloke no-one had heard of who couldn't get close to his club's team at the Madejski? Many did!?!

 

We have played two home games in the league. Both were "pressure" games - league favourites/live on sky/fans expectation/owner memorial/home side etc etc etc There are still 44 league matches to be played and Saints will rise gently through the league to end up floating nicely at the top. Don't fret so much over scoring your points on here - it's bad for your health! Relax a bit, give the people entrusted with our club some leeway to do their jobs and enjoy the ride.

 

Jeez. Too many people got grudges/axes to grind and heads up their own a r s e s to recognise that we have a great chance this season, whether we sign more players or not. The squad we have is perfectly capable of getting us promoted this year. As with any/every other team in the division players will have good games and bad games. None of our players are "rubbish footballers" - not even Wootton. At this level, players are inconsistent, of they weren't they'd be playing at a higher level.

 

On Tuesday, the players "responsible" for our defeat were Fonte and Lambert, but did anyone slate them? No, and rightly so. Just remember that when others make mistakes or perform below par.

 

Its a marathon, not a sprint. Never before has a saying been so true.

 

No need to reply. I'm out of here.

 

:-(

 

Great post, sanity and a realistic understanding of our postion.

[alpine_saint]

Great post, sanity and a realistic understanding of our postion.

 

I didnt bother replying to it because he said not to.

 

Suffiice to say I find it loaded with excuses and at least one untruth.

[saint1977]

I still wonder if Tyson is involved? Notts Forest have had a not-very-subtle pursuit of Whittingham and Prately. Bellamy's arrival at Cardiff might soften up their fans for Whittingham going, McCormack was off to to Leeds already the last I saw yesterday.

[Cabrone]

You dont understand the tetchiness considering how late its being left and how much is riding on him getting it right ?

 

I do, we're all a little frustrated by the start we've made (I think the pre-season was questionable) but we have no other option than to be patient.

 

Being self employed experience has taught me to only strike when the right opportunity comes up.

 

Believe me, it takes a fair bit of discipline to hold back when you know you could instantly get a lesser deal and I'm willing to give AP some slack on this one.

 

He might not even get it right but at least he's not wading into the transfer market hoovering up lesser players in a knee-jerk fashion. That's what we used to do and it cost us dearly.

 

My patience is not inexhaustible but as many have said we are still in the embryonic stages of the season and we are creating hatfuls of chances.

 

This team will come good IMO.

[Super_Uwe]

I do, we're all a little frustrated by the start we've made (I think the pre-season was questionable) but we have no other option than to be patient.

 

Being self employed experience has taught me to only strike when the right opportunity comes up.

 

Believe me, it takes a fair bit of discipline to hold back when you know you could instantly get a lesser deal and I'm willing to give AP some slack on this one.

 

He might not even get it right but at least he's not wading into the transfer market hoovering up lesser players in a knee-jerk fashion. That's what we used to do and it cost us dearly.

 

My patience is not inexhaustible but as many have said we are still in the embryonic stages of the season and we are creating hatfuls of chances.

 

This team will come good IMO.

 

Agree 100%

 

I am prepared to give AP time because he has proven his transfer credentials with us in the time he's been here; he has bought very well in my opinion. However I like you will not going on blindly supporting him if he's clearly getting it wrong. At the moment though he deserves our trust and I see nothing wrong with that at all.

 

We've got just under a week to go before the window shuts and to be honest I'll be very surprised indeed if we don't get anyone further in. That said, if there aren't any deals to be made that are going to benefit the team now then I'd rather we invest in January. Despite what some say we have got more than enough talent to be doing much better in my opinion, I really do believe that.

 

And if we are also honest, if we're that far off the pace by Christmas/January then the chances are AP won't be about anyway, so there would be money for a new boss.

[PokingFun]

This was in response to Alpine's comment about Antonio / Papa loans - looks like I missed off the quote! Oops!

 

Yeah but you are looking at the negative that we haven't signed them (which might be for reasons out of our control) while not acknowledging that they added value to the set up when they were here. Obviously loans are a bit of a gamble as they can go back and leave a hole but equally most of Pardew's loans have been shrewd signings that have filled the obvious holes when we haven't been able to make a permanent signing. After all, most of Pardew's signings have been permanent as far as I can see and most of them have been excellent additions for this level.

Edited 26 August, 2010 by PokingFun

[suewhistle]

I didnt bother replying to it because he said not to.

 

Suffiice to say I find it loaded with excuses and at least one untruth.

 

Oh go on. Do it for us then. What are the excuses? What are the untruths?

 

What hacks me off is the assumption from some people that the management _team_ aren't doing anything. They will have identified targets, they will have made contact and there will be various situations arising from that, some of which Mornington has referred to. I recall the story about Lowe asking the chief scout to find out about Forecast and getting an immediate reply (I think to the effect that he was crap) because "it's my job to know".

 

We are a L1 club trying to survive within our means and I don't get the impression that there is any lack of professionalism at the club even if I don't like all the decisions that have been made. Some criticism may be valid but so much is coming from speculation, wild assumption and lack of knowledge.

[S-Clarke]

Great post suewhistle

[Foxstone]

You dont understand the tetchiness considering how late its being left and how much is riding on him getting it right ?

 

I think that unlike Idiot Boy George who seemed to have no player acquisition plan at all ( and recruited bl00dy badly to boot), Pardew can count on his transfer acumen as being one of his strengths and to that end I am personally happy to wait and see what further rabbits come out of his hat.

Lets face it, Guly had not appeared on the radar until just before he was officially announced and there may be 1 or 2 more like him in the pipeline.

 

No need to panic yet IMO

[The9]

Surely by insisting on a wage at all, ALL these "professional" mercenaries are being completely selfish, rather than just those part of the loan market ?

 

Alpine for Amateurism !

[(not THE) Kevin Moore]

What, the loans that have left us with these f**k-off great holes in the squad in the first place? I dont like loans, and I have given my reasons. Their agenda is completely selfish.

 

Yeah how dare Jamie O'Hara selfishly play so well for Poopey last season... Who the hell did that benefit?

[Chez]

What, the loans that have left us with these f**k-off great holes in the squad in the first place? I dont like loans, and I have given my reasons. Their agenda is completely selfish.

 

who gives a **** if YOU don't like loans? They work for the rest of the football community and their usefulness is well proven by the fact that half the sides that have been promoted in recent years have featured one or more who have been fundamental to their promotion campaigns.

[alpine_saint]

who gives a **** if YOU don't like loans? They work for the rest of the football community and their usefulness is well proven by the fact that half the sides that have been promoted in recent years have featured one or more who have been fundamental to their promotion campaigns.

 

Fair enough. Ask yourself why we've been scratching around all summer for CMs and wingers...

[Jones91]

cant we just buy and sell outside the window like pompey? plus we can get a more expensive player if we dont pay their wages or tax

[alpine_saint]

cant we just buy and sell outside the window like pompey? plus we can get a more expensive player if we dont pay their wages or tax

 

[alpine_saint]

Yeah how dare Jamie O'Hara selfishly play so well for Poopey last season... Who the hell did that benefit?

 

There is a difference between the O'Haras and the Saganowskis of this world, and you know it.

[Chez]

Fair enough. Ask yourself why we've been scratching around all summer for CMs and wingers...

 

Do I really need to go over this again, sigh. For starters I'm still not sure what you mean about scratching around. We have certainly been unsucessful with one or two, but scratching around suggests as though they have have not been making enough effort, which is ********. I've said it before and I will say it again. Pardew's neck is on the line. Do you seriously think he's twiddling his thums? Anyone that thinks that is a deluded fool. If its a case of lack of funds, then who are we to complain? Do we want us to spend what is not there. Our lesson has to have been learnt, surely?

 

Obviously I don't know for certain, as transfer dealings are kept very quiet, but I think it is fair to say we have tried to sign all the best free contract players (that reach our required standard) including Inigo Calderon from Brighton, who turned out to be injured, and Albert Adomah, who joined Brizzol City in the NPC. We have also gone for Antonio, who stayed with Reading in the NPC and perhaps Brian Stock, who stayed with Donny, again in the NPC. The trouble we have is we are looking for NPC standard players, and if they are of the quality they tend to play in the NPC.

 

Going back to the finances, I hope we are not spending more than we have, and there is no proof to suggest otherwise, so that further restricts transfer dealings. We can't outbid NPC clubs, so what attraction is there for the likes of Stock? Fonte came here because we were the only option at the time.

 

I know you won't want to hear it again, but the final reason is that by waiting for the transfer window to start to unwind the right quality will hopefully come available ie NPC players. The Jacob Mellis', Antonio's, Jaidi's and Waigo's of this world become possible as the window closes. I remember us signing 6 players in the summer of 1998, all in good time (as you seem so desperate for us to do) and we took 12 games to get our first win that season. It's about signing quality not quantity, and if it takes time then so be it.

[Saint Charlie]

I bumped into Mr Calderon yesterday in the shopping centre in Brighton. Was tempted to ask him about the Saints stuff but he was too busy surveying the female talent.....

 

Chez, completely agree but that won't satisfy him. Luckily I won't see his reply as he is on ignore....

[steve f 48]

If you look at the Pardew video of the build up to Bristol Rovers, he mentions, as somewhere to look for players, non-league-- Martin, Seria B---Waigo, Seria A--- Guly and the Bundeslegue??. So who was he lookin at there???

[Katalinic]

Going back to the finances, I hope we are not spending more than we have, and there is no proof to suggest otherwise, so that further restricts transfer dealings. We can't outbid NPC clubs, so what attraction is there for the likes of Stock? Fonte came here because we were the only option at the time.

 

And on the finances point, it is clear that we are investing heavily in the academy structure (as posted yesterday). If this investment means that we have to take players on loan then so be it - this approach should pay dividends in the future - what is better, invest £2 million in the academy or on a player that may or may not work out? No risk loans to boost the squad numbers is a sensible approach allowing us to use the money in other areas such as youth development. The short-termism of some posters on this board continues to amuse.

[Block 5]

I bumped into Mr Calderon yesterday in the shopping centre in Brighton. Was tempted to ask him about the Saints stuff but he was too busy surveying the male talent.....

 

Edit.

[(not THE) Kevin Moore]

Do I really need to go over this again, sigh. For starters I'm still not sure what you mean about scratching around. We have certainly been unsucessful with one or two, but scratching around suggests as though they have have not been making enough effort, which is ********. I've said it before and I will say it again. Pardew's neck is on the line. Do you seriously think he's twiddling his thums? Anyone that thinks that is a deluded fool. If its a case of lack of funds, then who are we to complain? Do we want us to spend what is not there. Our lesson has to have been learnt, surely?

 

Obviously I don't know for certain, as transfer dealings are kept very quiet, but I think it is fair to say we have tried to sign all the best free contract players (that reach our required standard) including Inigo Calderon from Brighton, who turned out to be injured, and Albert Adomah, who joined Brizzol City in the NPC. We have also gone for Antonio, who stayed with Reading in the NPC and perhaps Brian Stock, who stayed with Donny, again in the NPC. The trouble we have is we are looking for NPC standard players, and if they are of the quality they tend to play in the NPC.

 

Going back to the finances, I hope we are not spending more than we have, and there is no proof to suggest otherwise, so that further restricts transfer dealings. We can't outbid NPC clubs, so what attraction is there for the likes of Stock? Fonte came here because we were the only option at the time.

 

I know you won't want to hear it again, but the final reason is that by waiting for the transfer window to start to unwind the right quality will hopefully come available ie NPC players. The Jacob Mellis', Antonio's, Jaidi's and Waigo's of this world become possible as the window closes. I remember us signing 6 players in the summer of 1998, all in good time (as you seem so desperate for us to do) and we took 12 games to get our first win that season. It's about signing quality not quantity, and if it takes time then so be it.

 

AMEN to all that. We only find out about the successes, who knows who else we've been in for. If we HAVE been chasing the likes of Benjani, Butt, Vassell then that tells me we're looking for the right type of players and the right level of quality.

 

We'll be fine.