NickG Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 would be happy with season long loan - Jack Cork has gone out on season long loan after Chelsea giving him longer contract - there will be some good young prem players who would be ideal for back up to RL or to come off the bench Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 Must have imagined the signing of Fonte.... sorry, I dont buy that low-ambition defeatist sentiment. If we are supposed to buy the "we are going places" mantra, why cant it be sold to the players ? If the players aren't available, then there isn't much we can do. Fonte was avaliable in january because of Palace's situation. He would not have joined otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 Must have imagined the signing of Fonte.... sorry, I dont buy that low-ambition defeatist sentiment. If we are supposed to buy the "we are going places" mantra, why cant it be sold to the players ? Maybe they cannot find someone better than what we have, willing to take the step down, at the right price. It's not rocket science, we're in the 3rd tier. The sort of players who we could attract on loan would be better than those we could buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 Must have imagined the signing of Fonte.... sorry, I dont buy that low-ambition defeatist sentiment. If we are supposed to buy the "we are going places" mantra, why cant it be sold to the players ? Well we have sold it to some but Fonte was the only one from a higher division the rest where league one players or had been realeased. Papa was quoted in the italian press as saying he wanted to play at a higher level so the vision doesn't work on everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 Precisely. To pay for this, Cardiff are most likely going to have to let some of their players go - apparently McCormack is now available up front. City are paying for his wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 Not remotely concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 lost out on Milner - confirmed at Man city Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 We're assuming we still have money to spend. We're not going to get a real idea until we at least hear from Cortese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastcowzer Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 [/color] No we won't (never thought we would) as he has already gone to Cardiff according to the BBC. It goes to show though that there will be lots of EPL players that won't get into the 25 man squads they've got to play somewhere. Ok we won't get any big names like Bellamy but some of the lesser players would still be good enough for us. Football-wise, good as Bellamy is, there is something wrong with his attitude, vis-e-vis look at the number of clubs that he has played for and with how many of them has he lasted beyond one season, sometimes not even that. Seems to be another like Keane, currently of Tottingham, at the moment, that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 We're assuming we still have money to spend. We're not going to get a real idea until we at least hear from Cortese. exactly, we don't know how much there was to spend, or is now - and 14 days to go. A lot up in the air Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Division South Days Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 I am a bit disappointed at our failure to act swiftly in the transfer market this year. Also sad that we did not sign Waigo and Antonio. Had we got those two, then we would have only needed cover for Rickie and we would be sorted. I like signing players we know because we already know that they can perform. Wished that theory had worked with Sagonowski. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints foreva Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 I am a bit worried and disappointed with our lack of movement in the transfer window. I don't think we have enough depth in our squad to win promotion. I have the feeling Pardew spent the Summer budget in January after making the promise that he would get us in the Play Offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketphilly Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 In all fairness to the club, they have managed to keep their cards close to their chest regarding transfers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(not THE) Kevin Moore Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 Pards has already done some good business strengthening bot full back positions, he has stated the need to bring in other options up front and wide right... so why do people assume he doesnt know what he's doing. It's my guess we know who we want but that we need to wait for other things to be sorted first. It could be that reading are eyeing up a new Right Winger but until they sign him they won't release Antonio. I am going to guess that there will be a late flurry and we might well end up with a couple of players coming in on deadline day. Better to be patient and get quality than sign someone for the sake of signing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 I think whats happened to our owner has greater priority at the moment than bringing players in. Im sure there will be players comming in but not till next week. Its just paying respect to Markus is more important for me at the moment. The current team will do their bit on saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 I am a bit worried and disappointed with our lack of movement in the transfer window. I don't think we have enough depth in our squad to win promotion. I have the feeling Pardew spent the Summer budget in January after making the promise that he would get us in the Play Offs. Thats my feeling too. People just took it for granted there was unlimited cash to spend IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 Acquiring the sort of players to win you the league is never going to be easy and I get the feeling that some of our key targets such as Adomah and Antonio slipped between our fingers. The option would then to go for 3rd or 4th choice and perhaps these were just not there. That means you have little choice but to wait for the market to develop or loans to come available. There are very few players, Stephen Dawson apart, that have moved to League 1 sides that I think we should have signed. I disagree that loans are not the right option for a side looking to get promoted. Any improvement in the squad is a good move whether the player is here for a month or 12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltonaggro Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 I think that it is obvious from AP's comments (including those in the Echo today) that Saints have been priced out of a deal for Antonio. The problem Saints are going to have is finding players that can make the transition from Div 3 to Div 2 and still be useful additions, players like Lambert and Fonte, and this can't be done on the cheap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 I think whats happened to our owner has greater priority at the moment than bringing players in. Im sure there will be players comming in but not till next week. Its just paying respect to Markus is more important for me at the moment. The current team will do their bit on saturday. Iam sure that ML would have had the attitude 'the king is dead, long live the king' you can't dwell and I'm confident Marcus would have felt the same as it seems we were a project important in his life/death Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 trouble is, if rumours are right, Reading are trying to take advantage of our link with Antonio and asking unrealistic price for player with his record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 trouble is, if rumours are right, Reading are trying to take advantage of our link with Antonio and asking unrealistic price for player with his record. Iam amazed that the club did not have an option put into the loan deal in case Antonio shone. They would have known he was out of contract in the summer and so Reading were there for a taking, now they have the whip hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 Iam amazed that the club did not have an option put into the loan deal in case Antonio shone. They would have known he was out of contract in the summer and so Reading were there for a taking, now they have the whip hand If you remember the original deal was only for a couple of months. I'm betting that not even Pardew thought he would improve as much as he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 If you remember the original deal was only for a couple of months. I'm betting that not even Pardew thought he would improve as much as he did. I would have thought that it would be sensible to put that in however short period he was coming to us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 I would have thought that it would be sensible to put that in however short period he was coming to us But it wouldn't have been in Readings interests at all. They have to agree to the loan terms as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 But it wouldn't have been in Readings interests at all. They have to agree to the loan terms as well... i agree but they had let his contract run down and so may have been happy to agree an option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 perhaps they just want to keep him so they've put the price high. Same sort of thing as anyone enquiring after Lallana, Morgan or RL I'd expect.No doubt we are open to offers for all of them but the asking price puts anyone off.Antonio is getting 20 minutes or so at the end of every game, impact sub, probably worth more to Reading like that than the measly 300K we're probably offering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopkins Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 i agree but they had let his contract run down and so may have been happy to agree an option Well not really. If they had agreed to a price, the price would have been incredibily small back then. He was a player who only played a bit of non league before this loan move. The price would have been pretty pointless from Reading's point of view really, so by him going on loan to us they couldn't lose. Either he had a stinker and he went back to them, nobody wants him and they release him, or he comes to us, has a blinder and he goes back to Reading, they extend his contract and he's in demand. Either they keep him and use his improvement to there advantage or they stick the price up and sell him for a good deal. Agreeing a price last season would have been pointless from a Reading's point of view because it would have been a small price anyway. It would have been well under £100,000. So its well worth taking the risk of losing at a max 100k, in the hope he has a blinder and they get to at least double/triple that price demand now. Pre agreed prices only work in certain situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 Well not really. If they had agreed to a price, the price would have been incredibily small back then. He was a player who only played a bit of non league before this loan move. The price would have been pretty pointless from Reading's point of view really, so by him going on loan to us they couldn't lose. Either he had a stinker and he went back to them, nobody wants him and they release him, or he comes to us, has a blinder and he goes back to Reading, they extend his contract and he's in demand. Either they keep him and use his improvement to there advantage or they stick the price up and sell him for a good deal. Agreeing a price last season would have been pointless from a Reading's point of view because it would have been a small price anyway. It would have been well under £100,000. So its well worth taking the risk of losing at a max 100k, in the hope he has a blinder and they get to at least double/triple that price demand now. Pre agreed prices only work in certain situations. I would have thought that Reading may have been happy to have put a fee of say 100k. not in their wildest dreams would they have expected him to perform so well as they would not have run his contract down.Saints seem to have had an option put on Waigo that they did not exercise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 i agree but they had let his contract run down and so may have been happy to agree an option hadn't really let it run down as they knew they had a automatic right to add a year without his consent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 100K??? you must be joking, most of the goals that he scored for us last season would be worth at least that amount to Reading. A player who performed as well as Antonio did(sometimes) last season is worth 500K to any side and Reading know that...but then so do we,any player who scores goals, however raw he may be costs money,just look at some of the ridiculous sums being splashed on relatively unproven strikers who have had one or two good games from time to time.Plus he's a young player who would probably be well satisfied with 4K a week and bonuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopkins Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 I would have thought that Reading may have been happy to have put a fee of say 100k. not in their wildest dreams would they have expected him to perform so well as they would not have run his contract down.Saints seem to have had an option put on Waigo that they did not exercise No, because Reading hold all the cards. Just think, from Readings point of view, Southampton come to you last year and want to take the winger who has only played in non league football on loan. Reading agree but there is simply no business sense in Reading agreeing a price for a player who would only command a fee of AT MAX 100k at the time. If Reading had agreed a 100k price, how stupid would they feel now knowing they could have got at least triple that. Saints would have had a steal. At the time nobody maybe had expected it, but if Reading agree to it and it goes as well as it did, Reading would have been mugged. Reading don't want that so they don't agree to an agreed price. They might not have expected it but it doesn't mean you don't have it in your thoughts when your negotiating. They hold all the cards if they don't agree to a price, because they know that the worst thing that can happen is Saints don't want him and Reading release him. They don't lose out on 100k at that point because Saints would not have made an offer because he had a stinker here. They agree to a price, they lose in almost every situation don't they? Either Saints take up the agreed price option, meaning he had a good loan period and reading could have negotiated for more or Saints don't want him and Reading are stuck with a player who obviously had a bad time here. With Papa it's different, he would have commanded a bigger fee from Fiorentina and the sort of they they could get even if he goes back to them after a bad loan spell because there are clubs in Italy and others that would have been interested whatever the situation. Even if he had a blinder here, the price agreed would have been one big enough that Saints wouldn't have paid much more even in the best of loan periods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 For every good signing, there is a bad signing ! For every good loan, there is a bad loan ! This happens to all teams at all levels ! Some are critical of the Antonio deal not being watertight in our favour, but this is being 'wise after the event', should we have done the same with Mellis for example, I'm sure that most would say no, which kind of proves my point ! IMHO a combination of new signings (which we partly already have!) coupled with a few loans, is not unhealthy and arguably gives us more flexibility come the end of the season ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 (edited) We're assuming we still have money to spend. We're not going to get a real idea until we at least hear from Cortese. I doubt even Cortese knows at the moment. Even if the broad thrust of the plans he had agreed with Markus are still in place, he will still need someone to sanction spending - and no-one is going to, nor should they, approach the family right now. Edited 17 August, 2010 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 I'd be happy with a couple of decent loan additions from the championship like last season to be honest. I don't like loans when they are at the core of the team but to add a bit of quality competition to the 1st XI they can be ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken With A Banjo Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 Pardew is waiting for the premiership clubs to announce their 25 man squad, which needs to be done for the start of September. This will produce the "movement" in the market that he has mentioned he is waiting for, previously. Premiership players may become available, or premiership players will move to championship with the trickle down effect of making championship players available. This is what he means when he says he could go out and get the best player available at the current time or he can wait and get the best player available a bit later. What is so hard for people to fathom about this strategy exactly? I also suspect we will still get Antonio, but don't want to pay what Reading are asking. So we're taking the risk that they will start to panic as the deadline gets closer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 (edited) I really don't think the EPL squad sizing system will affect us in any shape or form, we're in the 3rd division and very few players over 21 will want to drop down that far,Championship clubs will mop them up with the parent club paying the lion's share of the salary cheque or they'll play in the reserves wherever they are and take the easy money, or go back on loan to continental Europe from whence they came. Edited 17 August, 2010 by Window Cleaner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 I really don't think the EPL squad sizing system will affect us in any shape or form, we're in the 3rd division and very few players over 21 will want to drop down that far,Championship clubs will mop them up with the parent club paying the lion's share of the salary cheque or they'll play in the reserves wherever they are and take the easy money, or go back on loan to continental Europe from whence they came. It's not a case of premiership players moving to us, it's more about their moves then making championship players avaliable that could do a job for us. It's the trickle down effect that is caused by the 25man rule, or a few big money signings by other clubs (other than man city) I'm pretty sure tyson would have signed if Forest had managed to get Wittingham and Pratley, as he would have then been deemed surplus. - but he's ended up playing in their opening 2 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWD Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 By all means call me stupid if i'm wrong, but surely the EPL sides won't announce their final 25 man squads until the end of the transfer window? meaning that the potential time we will have to move in for players will be very short, and there'll be little or no time to scout targets before hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 By all means call me stupid if i'm wrong, but surely the EPL sides won't announce their final 25 man squads until the end of the transfer window? meaning that the potential time we will have to move in for players will be very short, and there'll be little or no time to scout targets before hand? It'll be loans we go after. I'll be very surprised if we make any more perm. signings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_Porter Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 (edited) By all means call me stupid if i'm wrong, but surely the EPL sides won't announce their final 25 man squads until the end of the transfer window? meaning that the potential time we will have to move in for players will be very short, and there'll be little or no time to scout targets before hand? They can announce them now and then change them at any time before the end of the window. It's a pretty pointless rule, other than City not many teams will be losing any players simply because they are up to 25 players. Edited 17 August, 2010 by Andy_Porter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWD Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 It'll be loans we go after. I'll be very surprised if we make any more perm. signings. Yeah I understand that, my point is that we'd be signing players based solely on reputation without our scouts doing their homework on how they would fit into the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joensuu Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 Can I just point out, that unless better than our current first team, anyone we buy now will have dropped to third choice this time next year when we (hopefully) buy replacements for the Premier push. Unless we can buy players who will walk straight into our first team, then loaning is by far the most sensible option open to us. (Especially as one of the roles we lack is pace in attacking positions - something young, talented Premier League kids often have in abundance) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 Edit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 By all means call me stupid if i'm wrong, but surely the EPL sides won't announce their final 25 man squads until the end of the transfer window? meaning that the potential time we will have to move in for players will be very short, and there'll be little or no time to scout targets before hand? Why would they want to do that? They can only have 25 players in their squad. So if they wait to the end of the transfer and loan windows what do they do IF they have 30 players on their books? They can't PLAY them but must still PAY them - I know football economic is daft but what it means is that every PL club with 30 or so players will look to move players out on loan until at least January so they can still bring them back in IF one squad player suffers injury or a loss of form (ie they ditch them). For example any squad player that is above 25 they could get at least SOME fee or wages back from a loan then it makes snese to get them out BEFORE the windows shut, otherwise it is deadwood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 Nottingham Forest did quite well last season with a few loan players and i believe they have loans this season also. Forest will not do anywhere near as well as they did last season, as for Swindon. You always have one or two teams that has a one off season. punched well above their weight but played really good football. Watch this one come back and bit me!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 Why would they want to do that? They can only have 25 players in their squad. So if they wait to the end of the transfer and loan windows what do they do IF they have 30 players on their books? They can't PLAY them but must still PAY them - I know football economic is daft but what it means is that every PL club with 30 or so players will look to move players out on loan until at least January so they can still bring them back in IF one squad player suffers injury or a loss of form (ie they ditch them). For example any squad player that is above 25 they could get at least SOME fee or wages back from a loan then it makes snese to get them out BEFORE the windows shut, otherwise it is deadwood. but how many clubs have 30 first team players..on high first team money..? man city is about it...really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 I think whats happened to our owner has greater priority at the moment than bringing players in. Im sure there will be players comming in but not till next week. Its just paying respect to Markus is more important for me at the moment. The current team will do their bit on saturday.Much as this sentiment is understandable, it is unrealistic to riskthe season being a failure because of a tragic event in August. The league competition hasn't stopped because of what has happened to Markus so the club has to do both things at once, pay its respects, whilst at the same time getting on with the job. If we were to miss out on promotion next April it would be little compensation to note that it happened because we didn't strengthen during the August transfer window, or because we missed out on a particular player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO16_Saint Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 I doubt even Cortese knows at the moment. Even if the broad thrust of the plans he had agreed with Markus are still in place, he will still need someone to sanction spending - and no-one is going to, nor should they, approach the family right now. i bloody well would, why the hell not? Dont get me wrong, it's sad etc, but we've been told for the past year, it's now being run as a business. If businesses need strenghening in anyway nothing should get in the way of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 i bloody well would, why the hell not? Dont get me wrong, it's sad etc, but we've been told for the past year, it's now being run as a business. If businesses need strenghening in anyway nothing should get in the way of that i think it's fair to pause for a bit....his mali businesses have been paused. Our club and his businesses come second fiddle to their father and friend passing away, and so it should, i see nothing wrong with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 17 August, 2010 Share Posted 17 August, 2010 Lets be honest for a minute.....if you were NC would you really sanction MORE spending? AP has signed 13/14 players in the last 12 months while NC has also allowed him to keep the crop of the side he inherited. I know if I were NC I would be asking to see results/performances from the investment to date before agreeing more additions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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