Private education

[Quickfire Double]

I remember being told that Freshers' Day at University are hunting grounds for boys looking for girls who had been to boarding schools - because the girls are, allegedly, so naive and therefore easy pickings.

 

Ah, that's where I went wrong. Should have looked up-Market !!

[dubai_phil]

Years ago we had a good education system. At 11 the brighter kids went to grammer schools, the remainder to secondary moderns. Then late developers were transferred to grammer schools and good GCE 'O' level results got them to the grammer school sixth forms. Most firms ran apprenticeship schemes and the professions had articled pupils with 5 'O' levels.

 

The academic kids were catered for as were the practical kids but the Labour government wanted equality. It was better to have a crap education system than allow streaming. Which is where we are now. Parents sometimes can't afford private education for their kids but give up luxuries to send their kids to a good school. And anybody who can afford it would be stupid not to give their kids an edge.

 

It won't happen but the old system was a whole lot better than the present fiasco.

 

Don't want to totally defend the old system of selection. As many horror stories of being in the wrong school as there were success stories.But you address two areas of debate

 

But Conceptually as I argued above, people ARE different. Some have affinity for Logic and deduction, some have affinity for Art or Music or Sport.

 

My life was ruined because my school played Rugby and I wanted to play football (simplistic joke version ok). I was alright at Football but couldn't do it because THE SYSTEM dictated I had to do what THEY said - Doctrine. Also I was (and am utterly useless at Languages and have no affinity for Great Literature), BUT luckily the selective streaming system I was exposed to looked for that, and streamed those who could paint an Apple into one one "Arts" stream and those of us who could blow things up in the Chem lab into another.

 

At the 3rd form and at the 6th form my skills were tested and I was sent where I had some affinity, whereas under the "Doctrine" of (many) schools, You Will do THIS whether you like it or not.

 

Soi, for every good Grandparent like BTF there are bad ones and for every Good School there are bad ones. The no Private Education argument is wrong BTF - you say it yourself, your Grandson's school TAKE CARE OF him. But what IF you were stuck in an inner city area, with Gang Culture, Drug Culture & Bullying Culture. What is the choice? Sacrifice your personal living standards to give your Kid a chance to mix with Children who are NOT going to drag them down? What if the family are unable to move to a better area?

 

The argument of Poshness is Political.

 

There should be NO Private Education System. The State SHOULD provide the service the People Need. They do it in many areas, so My argument again is why can that not be done everywhere?

 

As for Apprenticeships....

 

Went the same way as Technical Colleges...

 

Which is why the kids can't get a job and your plumber doesn't speak English - great move to make everyone equal that is

 

Apart from those in POWER of course everyone of us is equal except for them

[dubai_phil]

Oh and the Rugby thing - I rebelled and walked off the pitch one day when being forced to play.

 

Mind you I had right on my side and won the argument.

 

My best friend had been paralysed by a Scrum collapse. I watch the game but would and could never play again after that. He lived as a strain on his friends and family (who NEVER complained) for another 20 years and was a wonderful human being and is sorely missed

[Redondo Saint]

Two arguments.

 

Private Education is not JUST about class. It exists because the State system IN GENERAL cannot give every Child the chance to be the best they can be - the State system all too often manages ONLy to bring all the kids in a class down to the lowest level, and that is NOT right.

 

 

+1

 

Both my kids went to private school and did very well.. I am sure they would not have achieved the same exam results if they had attended the local secondary school.

[dubai_phil]

+1

 

Both my kids went to private school and did very well.. I am sure they would not have achieved the same exam results if they had attended the local secondary school.

 

My kids moved here when they were 4, 6 and 9. They attended an International School (we don't have ANY State system here for Expat Brats) But did NOT take the UK system, they took IGCSE & IB.

 

As for choice of which one they went to - the only one we could get them in, most places here had a 3-5 year waiting list.

 

Oh and BTF my opinions are based on

 

An ex wife who has taught in both systems.

Kids who had private education through no choice and what THEY found when they got to Uni.

And 17 years of experience in seeing what utter destruction Political Doctrine can do to so many Countries

 

Now IF UK State Schools wanted to improve they should just drop the GCSE & A Levels for turning up nonsense & do IB's.

 

Oh and no BTF I couldn't afford the fees, ex wife had to teach at the same school to get the discounts. The only option was for the family to go back to UK which would have made my life much more fun (yeah really it could have been even better!) but would have led to imbalanced Kids rather than the budding stars they are now in their chosen professions.

 

SO yes I have a grudge AGAINST Private Education - I had no choice, it cost me $10k a year EACH in their latter years leaving me with no pension after the ex took all my savings. I'm not bitter about it at all

[ecuk268]

Private education may not offer more to clever children, however private schools offer more to children over and above academic education. Facilities are often miles better (such as sporting facilities), whilst boarding schools offer a real character building experience. Therefore, they can offer a more all round experience which includes education at the centre, but also develops children in many other areas.

 

Not always. As a previous poster said, the standard of private schools vary as much as state schools.

 

I went to a state grammar school, my wife went to a private convent school. Their facilities were awful, very little provision for science, no gym, even some text books had to be shared.

 

My school had 4 science labs, gym, swimming pool, comprehensive library and even some rudimentary computers (this was the mid 60's). We also had an ex-England rugby coach and had visits from the Royal Shakespeare Company, which all added up to a pretty good rounded education.

[Sevvy]

I have twin sons,one goes to King Edwards and the other (his choice) goes to a local secondary school,

 

The differnece between them is shocking really, even down to the getting of home work. K.E. son gets lots upto 3 pieces a night the other son gets one piece a week if hes lucky. (

 

The teaching staff in the secondary school rarely stay that long where as the K.E. teachers are long term.

 

K.E. are very strict where as the secondary school is slap dash at the best.

 

K.E.costS me an arm and a leg but hopefully it will be worth it.

[thefunkygibbons]

The problem with this debate is not how to drag down private schools to the level of the public schools but how to drag the publis schools up

 

And in my book, there is one major difference

 

Discipline

 

Public schools succeed because they can deal with the disruptive influences / class clowns that mean that so much teaching these days is just crowd control

[Wade Garrett]

I'd love to send my kids to private school, but won't for 2 reasons. The first is economic and the second is that they would be happier going to school with their friends.

 

I absolutely insist on them doing their best, and actively involve myself in their education. I have used private tutoring for my eldest in the past, and will continue to do so when needed.

 

If my kids want to learn they will, regardless of what school they go to. I couldn't send them to private school knowing they would be happier elsewhere.

[hypochondriac]

I'd love to send my kids to private school, but won't for 2 reasons. The first is economic and the second is that they would be happier going to school with their friends.

 

I absolutely insist on them doing their best, and actively involve myself in their education. I have used private tutoring for my eldest in the past, and will continue to do so when needed.

 

If my kids want to learn they will, regardless of what school they go to. I couldn't send them to private school knowing they would be happier elsewhere.

 

Kids don't really know what they want after leaving primary school though. You don't keep the same friends anyway in most cases.

[hypochondriac]

The problem with this debate is not how to drag down private schools to the level of the public schools but how to drag the publis schools up

 

And in my book, there is one major difference

 

Discipline

 

Public schools succeed because they can deal with the disruptive influences / class clowns that mean that so much teaching these days is just crowd control

 

But also TBF there are less disruptive influences and class clowns.

[Frank's cousin]

Though long and hard about this one... not a big fan of social divides such as this, but like most folk if honest with yourself you do teh best you can for your kids and put aside your personal principles on things like this. So my daughter goes to a private school, daily not as a boarder, and we pay monthly. We do OK financially, but this is a big expense so we have to make sacrafices elsewhere, eg holidays and luxury items...and most of the kids in my daughters class, the parents do the same... its less about rich kids, and more about average kids whose parents made that choice and make sacrafices to pay for it... its not easy, but hopefully it will give her a good grounding.

[Redondo Saint]

Though long and hard about this one... not a big fan of social divides such as this' date=' but like most folk if honest with yourself you do teh best you can for your kids and put aside your personal principles on things like this. So my daughter goes to a private school, daily not as a boarder, and we pay monthly. We do OK financially, but this is a big expense so we have to make sacrafices elsewhere, eg holidays and luxury items...and most of the kids in my daughters class, the parents do the same... its less about rich kids, and more about average kids whose parents made that choice and make sacrafices to pay for it... its not easy, but hopefully it will give her a good grounding.[/quote']

 

As previously stated, my kids went to private school (in UK). I don't think this is a social divide. They had and continue to have, friends that went to state and private schools.

 

I do agree that if your kid is bright and you take an active role in their education they will still do well at state school. However, if they are more middle of the road, a private school is more likely to get the best out of them - certainly my kids did very well with their exams and I doubt the same would have happened elsewhere.

Just my opinion based on my kids and my own experience from Wildern in the '70s.

[Deppo]

http://www.thetruthaboutourschools.com/2010/08/16/watch-out-for-private-school-spin-and-dodgy-statistics/

 

‘Backing evidence for this claim, later in the article, indicates that individual private school students are three times as likely to get an A* as a state school students’ he wrote. ‘This is a very different statement to the opening one, which suggests that for every 4 A* grades, three will go to private school students.

 

‘Taking the figures in the article (16.5% of private students getting A*, as opposed to 5% of state schools, combined with the fact that 13.4% of A levels were taken by private students) gives a prediction of:

 

Private school students – 34% of A* grades

 

State schools – 66% of A* grades.

 

That’s a long way from private school students getting three times as many.’

[Deano6]

http://www.thetruthaboutourschools.com/2010/08/16/watch-out-for-private-school-spin-and-dodgy-statistics/

 

I think the article you quote is being unfairly pedantic on the Observer.

 

In reading

 

privately educated pupils were expected to get’ three times as many of the new A* grades at A level as state school students’.

 

I believe most people would get the point that the statistics say your kid is three times more likely to get an A* by going to Private School than to State School.

 

Yes it's wording is a little lax, as they point out, but for me it's a dodgier stat (for people to understand) to start publishing that State Schools outnumber Private Schools 2:1 in A*s, when that's purely based on there being far more people attending State Schools in the first place.

 

What the Observer has done is moved it onto a like-for-like basis which is easier for people to understand.

[TheCholulaKid]

The problem with this debate is not how to drag down private schools to the level of the public schools but how to drag the publis schools up

 

And in my book, there is one major difference

 

Discipline

 

Public schools succeed because they can deal with the disruptive influences / class clowns that mean that so much teaching these days is just crowd control

 

And how do you think they deal with them? Private schools are quite happy to expel kids who consistently misbehave - so kids don't misbehave (unhappy fee-paying parents etc.). It's a lot harder for state schools to expel kids - and if they do they will normally have to take a disruptive kid from another school to replace them. State schools expel kids as an absolute last resort - it's called inclusion. It's how civilised societies should work to be honest.

[Quickfire Double]

Though long and hard about this one... not a big fan of social divides such as this' date=' but like most folk if honest with yourself you do teh best you can for your kids and put aside your personal principles on things like this. So my daughter goes to a private school, daily not as a boarder, and we pay monthly. We do OK financially, but this is a big expense so we have to make sacrafices elsewhere, eg holidays and luxury items...and most of the kids in my daughters class, the parents do the same... its less about rich kids, and more about average kids whose parents made that choice and make sacrafices to pay for it... its not easy, but hopefully it will give her a good grounding.[/quote']

 

Fair play to you FC: I think the way you've set your priorities out is truly admirable. I think, and it's just my opinion based on my own knowledge and experience, that there are many parents out there who don't or wouldn't make the sacrifices you do. I hope I would, if circumstance ever put that test in my path.

[Wade Garrett]

Kids don't really know what they want after leaving primary school though. You don't keep the same friends anyway in most cases.

 

I know what's best for my kids, thank you very much.