Tickets for troops

[Quickfire Double]

Mmmm.. lots of ITK bull ****e as per normal.

 

I live in an 'army' town and I'll tell you a cupla things.

 

1. I have respect for guys who decide to join the army.

2. The whole town (apart from the off licence) wish they would fuk off and live somewhere else.

3. why is that? Cos most of them come into town every friday and saturday and act like a bunch of fukin morons!! i.e get drunk . . fight the locals.. if no locals fight each other... are sexually aggressive to the women they meet...generally pretty thick...

4. Society requires cannon fodder because a Western capitalist society needs everyone to take their place - that includes everyone from greedy bankers to Privates getting nailed in Afghan.

 

 

Do they deserve tickets?

Fuk no.. they know the job spec when they sign up. Most of em are hoping for a whole lot of playing with a gun and a woman in every port.

I've moved to a different town now I have kids as I don't want that influence in their life.

 

 

I started this by saying I respect the Armed Forces.

I really do.. but don't look at this with rose tinted specs....

 

Hmmmm.... Bovvy? Blandford?

 

You'm in trouble when the ITKs wake up in the mornin' !!

[wessex saint]

Hmmmm.... Bovvy? Blandford?

 

You'm in trouble when the ITKs wake up in the mornin' !!

 

I know!!

Thought I'd post late night and then not log on for a few days.

Off to the test match anyway.

No harm meant... just telling you how it is here in West Wilts....

[Dave Benson Phillips]

I know!!

Thought I'd post late night and then not log on for a few days.

Off to the test match anyway.

No harm meant... just telling you how it is here in West Wilts....

 

I will deal with you in the morning sunshine.

 

If you are tagging me as being an "ITK bullsh!tter" - I will just point out that no, I am ex-military, so not claiming to be ITK, I am posting FACTS from first hand experience.

 

And yes, I am a c*nt just like all squaddies... but I also know exactly what it entails to be an Infantry Soldier... so it's not ITK bull****e as you like to put it.

 

Anyway, I'll address your points in the morning c*nty.

[wessex saint]

I will deal with you in the morning sunshine.

 

If you are tagging me as being an "ITK bullsh!tter" - I will just point out that no, I am ex-military, so not claiming to be ITK, I am posting FACTS from first hand experience.

 

And yes, I am a c*nt just like all squaddies... but I also know exactly what it entails to be an Infantry Soldier... so it's not ITK bull****e as you like to put it.

 

Anyway, I'll address your points in the morning c*nty.

 

I haven't tagged anyone as an ITK . If you put yourself in that category that's up to you mate.

As for the 'I'll deal with you in the morning' line don't make me laugh you ****.

That's the sort of line that chavvy dads use with their naughty skinhead kids... i know that's not you by the way... I know you still Haven't found a girl willing to bear your offspring

Sweet dreams me old mucka

[Micky]

Mmmm.. lots of ITK bull ****e as per normal.

 

I live in an 'army' town and I'll tell you a cupla things.

 

1. I have respect for guys who decide to join the army.

2. The whole town (apart from the off licence) wish they would fuk off and live somewhere else.

3. why is that? Cos most of them come into town every friday and saturday and act like a bunch of fukin morons!! i.e get drunk . . fight the locals.. if no locals fight each other... are sexually aggressive to the women they meet...generally pretty thick...

4. Society requires cannon fodder because a Western capitalist society needs everyone to take their place - that includes everyone from greedy bankers to Privates getting nailed in Afghan.

 

 

Do they deserve tickets?

Fuk no.. they know the job spec when they sign up. Most of em are hoping for a whole lot of playing with a gun and a woman in every port.

I've moved to a different town now I have kids as I don't want that influence in their life.

 

 

I started this by saying I respect the Armed Forces.

I really do.. but don't look at this with rose tinted specs....

 

I take it you too were drunk when you wrote this. Most of it sounds pretty much like most major towns and cities in this country on a Friday/Saturday night - go take a look at Southampton on a weekend night - you've just described it to a tee. My wife used to work in one of the Restuarants in Below Bar and it was like a no go zone during the evenings when I used to pick her up. Take a look at some of the reality television cop shows - all you have described is, I'm afraid, the norm - or are all of these people squaddies as well?

 

If you think that the Armed Forces are thick ****s running around playing with a gun - then you yourself are probably well qualified to join! Forget the fighting troops, forget the conflict - ask youself - could the company that you work for deploy ten thousand employees overseas in a foriegn country. Could your company transport them, feed them, cloth them, accomodate them, provide washing facilities, provide transport, medical cover, shopping facilities - all the basic things that we take forgranted in life. I doubt that you could - it takes a whole lot more than a bunch of thickos to conduct such an operation.

 

Once you've got to where you're going - theres also the small matter of a war to fight - but hey ho, I'm sure you think thats just a case of a couple of thickos, letting rip with some 5.56. If you think that you are being represented by thickos - you do not have a clue, and nor do you deserve the service that these guys provide.

 

Yes you live in a military town, yes the squaddies go out, drink, kick off and try to score with the locals - but that is absolutely no different to the locals, is it?

Edited 17 August, 2010 by Micky

[wessex saint]

Most of that sounds pretty much like most major towns and cities in this country on a Friday/Saturday night - go take a look at Southampton on a weekend night - you've just described it to a tee. My wife used to work in one of the Restuarants in Below Bar and it was like a no go zone during the evenings when I used to pick her up. Take a look at some of the reality television cop shows - all you have described is, I'm afraid, the norm - or are all of these people squaddies as well?

 

I hear what you're saying .... but when they go on leave for a month in August the town takes on a happy go lucky vibe... everyone comes out and has a few beers!! We're a small town - nothing like inner city So'ton which we always be full of ******s.

I DO understand the game... 6 weeks of intensive training making you a killing machine and then.. BANG... go and have a Saturday night out ! Someone's gunna have to pick up the pieces Sunday morning

[Micky]

I hear what you're saying .... but when they go on leave for a month in August the town takes on a happy go lucky vibe... everyone comes out and has a few beers!! We're a small town - nothing like inner city So'ton which we always be full of ******s.

I DO understand the game... 6 weeks of intensive training making you a killing machine and then.. BANG... go and have a Saturday night out ! Someone's gunna have to pick up the pieces Sunday morning

 

What town do you live in?

[Thedelldays]

I hear what you're saying .... but when they go on leave for a month in August the town takes on a happy go lucky vibe... everyone comes out and has a few beers!! We're a small town - nothing like inner city So'ton which we always be full of ******s.

I DO understand the game... 6 weeks of intensive training making you a killing machine and then.. BANG... go and have a Saturday night out ! Someone's gunna have to pick up the pieces Sunday morning

And when they all leave for good. Watch the local economy go down hill. And the void left by the "thickos" get replaced by non uniform wearing "thickos"

[alpine_saint]

Mmmm.. lots of ITK bull ****e as per normal.

 

I live in an 'army' town and I'll tell you a cupla things.

 

1. I have respect for guys who decide to join the army.

2. The whole town (apart from the off licence) wish they would fuk off and live somewhere else.

3. why is that? Cos most of them come into town every friday and saturday and act like a bunch of fukin morons!! i.e get drunk . . fight the locals.. if no locals fight each other... are sexually aggressive to the women they meet...generally pretty thick...

4. Society requires cannon fodder because a Western capitalist society needs everyone to take their place - that includes everyone from greedy bankers to Privates getting nailed in Afghan.

 

 

Do they deserve tickets?

Fuk no.. they know the job spec when they sign up. Most of em are hoping for a whole lot of playing with a gun and a woman in every port.

I've moved to a different town now I have kids as I don't want that influence in their life.

 

 

I started this by saying I respect the Armed Forces.

I really do.. but don't look at this with rose tinted specs....

 

Sorry, I dont see that your description is any different from British "yoof" in general in 2010. Even the trash getting into universitys nowadays under ZaNuLabours policy of 50% in higher education is p*ssing over war memorials.

 

In addition, some of the servicemen have actually learnt a decent trade (electrical, electronic, radio operator, accounting, etc.), so in many respects are almost model citizens compared to the Shameless generation of general populace.

[Dave Benson Phillips]

I hear what you're saying .... but when they go on leave for a month in August the town takes on a happy go lucky vibe... everyone comes out and has a few beers!! We're a small town - nothing like inner city So'ton which we always be full of ******s.

I DO understand the game... 6 weeks of intensive training making you a killing machine and then.. BANG... go and have a Saturday night out ! Someone's gunna have to pick up the pieces Sunday morning

 

6 weeks? Obviously you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

[Dave Benson Phillips]

I haven't tagged anyone as an ITK . If you put yourself in that category that's up to you mate.

As for the 'I'll deal with you in the morning' line don't make me laugh you ****.

That's the sort of line that chavvy dads use with their naughty skinhead kids... i know that's not you by the way... I know you still Haven't found a girl willing to bear your offspring

Sweet dreams me old mucka

 

I can only assume that you were p!ssed and trying to be the funnyman.

 

It is true that squaddies are hated in most towns they are based. I was based in Canterbury and the men fookin hated us there. Why? Because none of the women in the town wanted them, they wanted a squaddie inside them ( we used to call them squaddie mattresses ) . I can understand their frustrations and can only assume you have been a victim of the same.

 

It's good that you have finally moved out of the Garrison. Maybe now you will be able to find a girlfriend.

 

Can't stop anyway, off to take my offspring to Paultons Park. Hoot hoot!

[Secret Site Agent]

I'm just amazed that there are some who degrade what the troops do, and don't understand why they do it.

 

Did YOU support that bunch of lazy overpaid, primadonna Twots during the world cup? Did you? There. Pride in ones nation. Some want to support it, others to serve it.

 

And, as for thicko's.........................................

FIREMEN: How many of them started out with a rifle in their hands

POLICEMEN: How many were in green before being in blue

NURSES: How many were flying with angels before becoming angles

Professors of Particle Physics - How many volenteer to be a Gunner in the marines

Dozy old Project managers on construction jobs - How many work (medium) hard to keep your roads going and build flood defence works started out covered in mud directing Armoured plant.

 

Doctors,Lawyers, Engineers, Plumbers, Brickies, Groundworks Formen, Tarmackers, Computer Engineers, Taxi Drivers, Store owners, Copywriters, Journalists, Politicians, Hair Dressers, Dentists. All of them people I have met who started out in the Armed Forces. Thickies? I don't think so.

[wessex saint]

Apologies guys.. Having read back last night I can see that I fell into playing the local game called squaddie baiting.

Some of my remarks were OTT and I have an awful lot of respect for the servicemen/women who serve this country.

 

To get back on topic I still don't believe they should benefit from free tickets anymore than a number of sectors in society but to be fair, if you don't ask you don't get.

[tartanowl]

All armed forced members get discounted concessionary tickets at Hillsborough. Most of them get paid poorly and they spend a lot of time away from their homes and their families. Personally I think it's a fantastic idea and our soldiers are very worthy of the discount. Our armed forces members sacrifice a lot for the people in this country and often they can only get to a couple of games a season. I don't see why people are against offering them deals?

[Turkish]

All armed forced members get discounted concessionary tickets at Hillsborough. Most of them get paid poorly and they spend a lot of time away from their homes and their families. Personally I think it's a fantastic idea and our soldiers are very worthy of the discount. Our armed forces members sacrifice a lot for the people in this country and often they can only get to a couple of games a season. I don't see why people are against offering them deals?

 

This, anyone who puts their life on the line for other deserves respect and a few concessions is a worthy token to them.

 

The ones on here that seem to be against it are the snobby, usual suspects who seem to take delight at sneering at anyone they consider a lesser being with them. On this thread alone describing soilders as f*cking morons, thick and only joining up to play with guns. Even saying every country needs cannon fodder, what a shame we dont have compulsary national service anymore, i'd love to see people like this tell their commanding officers just what a f*cking moron they are.

[alpine_saint]

This, anyone who puts their life on the line for other deserves respect and a few concessions is a worthy token to them.

 

The ones on here that seem to be against it are the snobby, usual suspects who seem to take delight at sneering at anyone they consider a lesser being with them. On this thread alone describing soilders as f*cking morons, thick and only joining up to play with guns. Even saying every country needs cannon fodder, what a shame we dont have compulsary national service anymore, i'd love to see people like this tell their commanding officers just what a f*cking moron they are.

 

This.

[Wilko]

The number of sweeping statements on both sides of this debate is alarming.

 

Are they poorly paid? That's subjective. Most members of the armed forces get paid in line with graduate jobs. If you come out of an average university with an average degree, or from an average college with an average set of grades, you're likely to get paid about £16-17k for your first couple of years. This seems to be roughly in line with the forces. On that basis, anybody who goes into any job is poorly paid.

 

Somebody wrote that the armed forces sacrifice a lot for the people of the country. I do have a great deal of respect for those who sign up with the aim of defending the realm, but I can't help but feel that in the 21st century this is misguided. If we were talking about fighting the invading forces of fascism then I would have no issue. However, in recent years we've been involved in conflicts in far away places that have very little to do with defending our land and a lot to do with a sense that we, alongside America, should act as the police of the world. I understand that it was politicians who made the decisions to start the wars, but those who sign up for the fight are actively parcitipating in them and if every single one of them decided not to fight, there would be no war.

 

But this is all getting away from the point. If the club wishes to give free tickets to soldiers than it should and it's not worth having a massive argument or getting angry about it. I see no reason why they should be given special treatment for doing their job. It is my right to hold these views. People like Stu from Romsey and all the rest of you who are going ape at those who disagree with your pro-military views should remember that on so many occasions they are the first people to argue that our armed forces are there to protect such freedoms.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

I respect the work firefighters do when they are working. I thought they were absolute scum for going on strike. It is possible to hold both views.

 

Nurses cannot be compared because there is no element of danger in their job... so no, course they can't be compared.

 

Bridgetoofar compared like for like an Infantry Soldier to a Healthcare Support Worker. How the fook would you not call that slating? With all due respect to Healthcare Support Workers, it is an entry level job.

 

I am sorry to burst a few stereotypes on here, but an Infantry Soldier is a highly skilled job, even more so nowadays with the technology and weapons that are available. Not 'anyone' can be an Infantry Soldier... as I have said a few times... less than 10% of people who apply to join the Army make it to battalion.

 

I am not denigrating the job or the risks of being a soldier in Afghanistan, they are all too painfully obvious.

To say that some jobs are "entry level" when a squady's is "highly skilled" is not really accurate. Very many recruits are working class kids where there is little else in the way of employment available. Highly skilled at 18 after 6 months or so of training? I don't see it that way. A friend of my son joined the marines recently and after about 4 or 5 months of his training I think, he got notified of his first posting - Afghanistan. He decided to quit, as it made him think very hard about what he was actually getting himself into.

 

So politicians taking advantage of naivity and lack of other opportunity? Certainly.

 

Would you be doing it in Afghanistan? Not me, not bloody likely. I absolutely admire the guys' bravery, but doubt that many of them really see it as "serving their country", more like supporting their buddies, loyalty to their unit etc. Their bravery and loyalty does not mean I can't question the political motives and reasons for what I see as an unwinnable, and therefore disgustingly wasteful war.

 

There is no question that should the club support the suggestion for tickets, the move would deserve support, and I wouldn't get picky about any group the club might want to support in that way.

[Micky]

The number of sweeping statements on both sides of this debate is alarming.

 

Are they poorly paid? That's subjective. Most members of the armed forces get paid in line with graduate jobs. If you come out of an average university with an average degree, or from an average college with an average set of grades, you're likely to get paid about £16-17k for your first couple of years. This seems to be roughly in line with the forces. On that basis, anybody who goes into any job is poorly paid.

 

Somebody wrote that the armed forces sacrifice a lot for the people of the country. I do have a great deal of respect for those who sign up with the aim of defending the realm, but I can't help but feel that in the 21st century this is misguided. If we were talking about fighting the invading forces of fascism then I would have no issue. However, in recent years we've been involved in conflicts in far away places that have very little to do with defending our land and a lot to do with a sense that we, alongside America, should act as the police of the world. I understand that it was politicians who made the decisions to start the wars, but those who sign up for the fight are actively parcitipating in them and if every single one of them decided not to fight, there would be no war.

But this is all getting away from the point. If the club wishes to give free tickets to soldiers than it should and it's not worth having a massive argument or getting angry about it. I see no reason why they should be given special treatment for doing their job. It is my right to hold these views. People like Stu from Romsey and all the rest of you who are going ape at those who disagree with your pro-military views should remember that on so many occasions they are the first people to argue that our armed forces are there to protect such freedoms.

 

Wilco, very glad to see that you don't make any such sweeping statements...!

 

You are absolutely correct as well - it is your right to hold such views. It is your right because we live in a free democratic society where you are afforded those rights. Just remind me again - who is it that keeps it so?

[Micky]

I am not denigrating the job or the risks of being a soldier in Afghanistan, they are all too painfully obvious.

To say that some jobs are "entry level" when a squady's is "highly skilled" is not really accurate. Very many recruits are working class kids where there is little else in the way of employment available. Highly skilled at 18 after 6 months or so of training? I don't see it that way. A friend of my son joined the marines recently and after about 4 or 5 months of his training I think, he got notified of his first posting - Afghanistan. He decided to quit, as it made him think very hard about what he was actually getting himself into.

 

So politicians taking advantage of naivity and lack of other opportunity? Certainly.

 

Would you be doing it in Afghanistan? Not me, not bloody likely. I absolutely admire the guys' bravery, but doubt that many of them really see it as "serving their country", more like supporting their buddies, loyalty to their unit etc. Their bravery and loyalty does not mean I can't question the political motives and reasons for what I see as an unwinnable, and therefore disgustingly wasteful war.

 

There is no question that should the club support the suggestion for tickets, the move would deserve support, and I wouldn't get picky about any group the club might want to support in that way.

 

Great post - puts a very fair perspective on it. The only thing that I would say is, don't forget that many servicemen conduct multiple operational tours (sometimes in theatres other than Afghan) - it's not just a 'one off'. This, effectively is where the experience is gained, and why they should be applauded for knowing the risk yet agreeing to go again.

[Wilko]

Wilco, very glad to see that you don't make any such sweeping statements...!

 

You are absolutely correct as well - it is your right to hold such views. It is your right because we live in a free democratic society where you are afforded those rights. Just remind me again - who is it that keeps it so?

 

That is not a sweeping statement. It's a fact. If the soldiers decided not to fight, there would be no war.

 

On your second point, you say it as if there was no army we would all be subject to the tyrrany of some kind of unknown force that would immediately rob us of our freedoms. I just see it differently.

 

I am, at least, glad we can agree to disagree politely, rather than getting into name calling and insults.

[Viking Warrior]

Wessex saints Im pleased you have retracted your statement. but can you confirm what you meant by ITK's

Also given you live in a Military town . how many of the lads and lasses their have come back injured or in a coffin.

Does or did the town feel the grief when the troops were from the garrison their

 

if your west Wllts your either out in warminster or in and around salisbury Tidworth (Not much to do there on a friday or saturday night

[Micky]

That is not a sweeping statement. It's a fact. If the soldiers decided not to fight, there would be no war.

 

On your second point, you say it as if there was no army we would all be subject to the tyrrany of some kind of unknown force that would immediately rob us of our freedoms. I just see it differently.

I am, at least, glad we can agree to disagree politely, rather than getting into name calling and insults.

 

I agree, it would indeed be fact - but I doubt in my lifetime I will ever see the day when, what, 10 - 20,000 servicemen and women decide 'not to go'. It would be an interesting concept - to have no Armed Forces whatsoever and rely on the good nature of the rest of the modern world to just leave us in peace. But not a gamble I would really like to take!

[alpine_saint]

The number of sweeping statements on both sides of this debate is alarming.

 

Are they poorly paid? That's subjective. Most members of the armed forces get paid in line with graduate jobs. If you come out of an average university with an average degree, or from an average college with an average set of grades, you're likely to get paid about £16-17k for your first couple of years. This seems to be roughly in line with the forces. On that basis, anybody who goes into any job is poorly paid.

 

Somebody wrote that the armed forces sacrifice a lot for the people of the country. I do have a great deal of respect for those who sign up with the aim of defending the realm, but I can't help but feel that in the 21st century this is misguided. If we were talking about fighting the invading forces of fascism then I would have no issue. However, in recent years we've been involved in conflicts in far away places that have very little to do with defending our land and a lot to do with a sense that we, alongside America, should act as the police of the world. I understand that it was politicians who made the decisions to start the wars, but those who sign up for the fight are actively parcitipating in them and if every single one of them decided not to fight, there would be no war.

 

But this is all getting away from the point. If the club wishes to give free tickets to soldiers than it should and it's not worth having a massive argument or getting angry about it. I see no reason why they should be given special treatment for doing their job. It is my right to hold these views. People like Stu from Romsey and all the rest of you who are going ape at those who disagree with your pro-military views should remember that on so many occasions they are the first people to argue that our armed forces are there to protect such freedoms.

 

There is so much wrong with this post it is difficult to know where to start. Oh, lets try this one :

 

The armed forces are there to protect our citizens as much as our land. 67 British citizens died in 9/11 (and 50-odd in 7/7), and the place the perpetrators were given shelter to was Afghanistan.

 

Can you say that other 9/11s and other huge casualties to our population have NOT been prevented by our presence there ?

 

I say give them free tickets, and a f**king free beer while we're at it. And it is my right to say so, under the democracy they they have defended and upheld.

[Dave Benson Phillips]

I am not denigrating the job or the risks of being a soldier in Afghanistan, they are all too painfully obvious.

To say that some jobs are "entry level" when a squady's is "highly skilled" is not really accurate. Very many recruits are working class kids where there is little else in the way of employment available. Highly skilled at 18 after 6 months or so of training? I don't see it that way. A friend of my son joined the marines recently and after about 4 or 5 months of his training I think, he got notified of his first posting - Afghanistan. He decided to quit, as it made him think very hard about what he was actually getting himself into.

 

So politicians taking advantage of naivity and lack of other opportunity? Certainly.

 

Would you be doing it in Afghanistan? Not me, not bloody likely. I absolutely admire the guys' bravery, but doubt that many of them really see it as "serving their country", more like supporting their buddies, loyalty to their unit etc. Their bravery and loyalty does not mean I can't question the political motives and reasons for what I see as an unwinnable, and therefore disgustingly wasteful war.

 

There is no question that should the club support the suggestion for tickets, the move would deserve support, and I wouldn't get picky about any group the club might want to support in that way.

 

That is very naive to join the Marines and not expect to go to Afghanistan! And yes, there is a 32 week course to pass ( if you don't pass, you don't get through ) which is one of the toughest military training cadres in the world, and is one step down from S.A.S training. After this course then yes, I would class them as highly skilled. Not to mention there would be an intensive course specific to Afghan prior to depoyment.

 

And it is not so much the initial training that develops a soldier into a highly skilled person, it's the ongoing training and development.

 

'Thick' people don't exist in the Army, they just don't make it through training on the whole. Yes meatheads get through, and dyslexic people... but 'thickos' don't. We only had one in our battalion, he feared for his life because although thick, his intelligence was enough for him to know he wasn't bright enough to be in the forces... he drove his car over Dover cliffs and killed himself.

 

The majority of battalions are now overmanned. For our local regiment ( and my old regiment ) The Tigers, both battalions are overmanned, and there is now a waiting list, with recuiting officers only cherry picking the very best. This is a direct result of people wanting to serve and protect our country. So it's nothing to do with naivity... everyone knows Afghanistan is going on, it would be nice if people appreciated that some people know the risks, but are prepared to stick their life on the line to do the job.

 

I think there is alot of people here who wouldn't do it themselves, either through lack of discipline, desire or simply not enough courage - therefore feel it right to undermine those that have stepped up to the plate.

 

Without security forces, the UK would be a massive terror target... I think people would do well to remember that too.

 

Give the soldiers free tickets, especially if they are not taking them off anyone else.

[Secret Site Agent]

Apologies guys.. Having read back last night I can see that I fell into playing the local game called squaddie baiting.

Some of my remarks were OTT and I have an awful lot of respect for the servicemen/women who serve this country.

 

To get back on topic I still don't believe they should benefit from free tickets anymore than a number of sectors in society but to be fair, if you don't ask you don't get.

 

Well done Wessex for being the bigger man. Still don't agree but as I mentioned i am biased, but I do respect your decision.

[Turkish]

Well done Wessex for being the bigger man. Still don't agree but as I mentioned i am biased, but I do respect your decision.

 

I'm dubious, his comments of f*cking morons, cannon fodder, privates being 'nailed' in afghan and thick and generally just being totally disrepectful seem to more than just a game of 'squaddie baiting' i think it might be more the fact that no one agreed and he made himself look a total c*nt rather than changing his stongly held views overnight.

[Thedelldays]

I remember when I lost my leave, got issued with my PBI Golds and joined in OP Fresco...I also remember when I had to help shovel god knows how many dead cows ready to be burned a year before that...

 

certainly did not mention crap like that when I sign the dotted line...

[Micky]

I remember when I lost my leave, got issued with my PBI Golds and joined in OP Fresco...I also remember when I had to help shovel god knows how many dead cows ready to be burned a year before that...

 

certainly did not mention crap like that when I sign the dotted line...

 

Ahhhhh good old MACP TDD, or Military Aid to the Civil Powers to the likes of me and you, but often overlooked by civilians. It is in the contract mate - always read the small print, it's there somewhere.

[Thedelldays]

Ahhhhh good old MACP TDD, or Military Aid to the Civil Powers to the likes of me and you, but often overlooked by civilians. It is in the contract mate - always read the small print, it's there somewhere.

 

I always thought the green godesses were hillarious....what was worse, just out side of the naval base in plymouth is a fire station..and were were NOT allowed to use or train or anything with their kit/hardware...even though it is owned by the state..right..?

 

instead, we went around in 1960s fire engines (which was funny) and used totally inadequate fire fighting equipment and did the job the regular fire fighters did with no where near the training they got or use of the kit they did and with far fewer numbers....to be honest, that was hugely dangerous when it did not need to be....but hey ho, we are just thickos

[Professor]

There is so much wrong with this post it is difficult to know where to start. Oh, lets try this one :

The armed forces are there to protect our citizens as much as our land. 67 British citizens died in 9/11 (and 50-odd in 7/7), and the place the perpetrators were given shelter to was Afghanistan.

Can you say that other 9/11s and other huge casualties to our population have NOT been prevented by our presence there ?

I say give them free tickets, and a f**king free beer while we're at it. And it is my right to say so, under the democracy they they have defended and upheld.

You are entitled to your opinion, but its difficult to debate on the basis of facts that are capable of being adapted to suit the argument. For example, many of the people who died in London on 7/7 were not British citizens but were simply tourists or visitors, and it is arguable that had the British army not been in Iraq, the bombers would not have been motivated to carry out the London atrocity in the first place.

Whilst there were British casualties from 9/11, the attack was not against this country, it was against the USA, and many other non-Americans were also killed. However, since then Britain has lost some 330 soldiers in Afganistan since the US invasion in 2001, more than any other NATO country other than the US.

 

That may be seen as grounds for giving troops free tickets to football matches, but there clearly is a lot of concern at our troops being sent to fight a war that some people would say has more to do with the USA and its foreign policies in the middle east than it does with the defence of Britain. Of course we all support the soldiers as individuals and we are proud of our army, but are these charity schemes also intended to reduce opposition to the political decisions that sent our troops out there in the first place?

[Micky]

You are entitled to your opinion, but its difficult to debate on the basis of facts that are capable of being adapted to suit the argument. For example, many of the people who died in London on 7/7 were not British citizens but were simply tourists or visitors, and it is arguable that had the British army not been in Iraq, the bombers would not have been motivated to carry out the London atrocity in the first place.

Whilst there were British casualties from 9/11, the attack was not against this country, it was against the USA, and many other non-Americans were also killed. However, since then Britain has lost some 330 soldiers in Afganistan since the US invasion in 2001, more than any other NATO country other than the US.

 

That may be seen as grounds for giving troops free tickets to football matches, but there clearly is a lot of concern at our troops being sent to fight a war that some people would say has more to do with the USA and its foreign policies in the middle east than it does with the defence of Britain. Of course we all support the soldiers as individuals and we are proud of our army, but are these charity schemes also intended to reduce opposition to the political decisions that sent our troops out there in the first place?

 

You are of course correct in that some of the people who died on 7/7 were not British, which sort of conflicts with your point about 9/11 not being an attack against this country. Those people who perpetrated the 7/7 attack did so with the express intention of killing British people. It is also interesting though that Bush, from the very outset claimed that 9/11 as an attack on Western Europe.

 

At the end of the day, the British soldier (serviceman) is nothing more than a pawn to the politicians and their politics. It only remains for said soldier to decide whether or not that is a noble enough cause to conduct 'the job'.

[Dave Benson Phillips]

Ahhhhh good old MACP TDD, or Military Aid to the Civil Powers to the likes of me and you, but often overlooked by civilians. It is in the contract mate - always read the small print, it's there somewhere.

 

I was another moron on Op Fresco. Also have done flood evacuation and rescue and repatriation of British nationals in Rwanda.

 

But hey... let's not let the FACTS that British Army's main role is home defence/British interest and MACP is a large part of the role. Afghan overshadows everything at the moment, but there is so much more to the British Army than running around after the Taliban.

Edited 17 August, 2010 by Dave Benson Phillips

[tartanowl]

The number of sweeping statements on both sides of this debate is alarming.

 

Are they poorly paid? That's subjective. Most members of the armed forces get paid in line with graduate jobs. If you come out of an average university with an average degree, or from an average college with an average set of grades, you're likely to get paid about £16-17k for your first couple of years. This seems to be roughly in line with the forces. On that basis, anybody who goes into any job is poorly paid.

 

Somebody wrote that the armed forces sacrifice a lot for the people of the country. I do have a great deal of respect for those who sign up with the aim of defending the realm, but I can't help but feel that in the 21st century this is misguided. If we were talking about fighting the invading forces of fascism then I would have no issue. However, in recent years we've been involved in conflicts in far away places that have very little to do with defending our land and a lot to do with a sense that we, alongside America, should act as the police of the world. I understand that it was politicians who made the decisions to start the wars, but those who sign up for the fight are actively parcitipating in them and if every single one of them decided not to fight, there would be no war.

 

But this is all getting away from the point. If the club wishes to give free tickets to soldiers than it should and it's not worth having a massive argument or getting angry about it. I see no reason why they should be given special treatment for doing their job. It is my right to hold these views. People like Stu from Romsey and all the rest of you who are going ape at those who disagree with your pro-military views should remember that on so many occasions they are the first people to argue that our armed forces are there to protect such freedoms.

 

£16-17k per annum is very poor pay for people being faced with daily gunfire, rocket and IED attacks.

 

Spending months on end away from normal society and their friends and families is a huge sacrifice.

[Wilko]

£16-17k per annum is very poor pay for people being faced with daily gunfire, rocket and IED attacks.

 

Spending months on end away from normal society and their friends and families is a huge sacrifice.

 

I agree that to put your life on the line for that wage would seem a little unwise. But it has been pointed out earlier on that nobody is forced to join the forces. The question of how much they should be paid also remains. How much should anybody be paid to do anything? What about a surgeon who regularly saves lives? What about a recruitment consultant who finds somebody a great job? What about a politician who changes a law to make society fairer? What about nurses who work in hospices? You see what I'm getting at, here. You can argue that everybody is either paid too much or not enough, but ultimately the wage is there and people make the decision to take it. It's the value that the economy places on the job. If nobody joined at the starting wage, the forces would put the wage up to encourage more people to join up in the same way teachers of some subjects are given incentives to join the profession.

 

I think the sacrifices troops are required to make as part of their job are well documented and few, if any, would take the job not knowing the facts.

[Thedelldays]

 

I think the sacrifices troops are required to make as part of their job are well documented and few, if any, would take the job not knowing the facts.

in many jobs in the forces..you simply do NOT know exactly what you are joining up for..as alot of it is on a need to know basis...

 

I wonder if those who are saying "they knew what they were signing up for" have a view on the firefighters strike...or the trolly dollys strike....or anyone striking..?

 

we all sign up to cetain conditions...yeah..?

[sebastian firefly]

A nurse works consistently long hours, non-stop in demanding surroundings. It's not an easy job. Both a soldier and a nurse are demanding.

 

i know throughout my life i will require the expertise of far more nurses than i will soldiers

[latter day saint]

i know throughout my life i will require the expertise of far more nurses than i will soldiers

i think everyone else hopes this remains the case.

i have never needed the expertise of either profession but i am equaly glad that there are people willing to do those jobs, in case i have

need of them in the future.

[sebastian firefly]

ive also noted on several occasions policemen at sms

and have been informed not that they were given free tickets

but were in fact paid to be there

please that cant be right in anyones book?

[Micky]

i know throughout my life i will require the expertise of far more nurses than i will soldiers

 

One hopes that your comment is borne out of pure ignorance, as you do many service and ex service personnel a huge disservice. Your forefathers fought in 2 world wars making extreme sacrifices in order that you live in the way in which you do today. You should be forever in their debt. The work and foundations of freedom that they laid is now taken up by our present armed forces personnel who work to ensure that our shores remain a secure place to live.

 

You may indeed at times have occasion to benifit from the expertise of our excellent nurses, you may never in your life meet a soldier, however the soldier that you never meet is the one working daily to ensure that you stay secure in your country.

[alpine_saint]

One hopes that your comment is borne out of pure ignorance, as you do many service and ex service personnel a huge disservice. Your forefathers fought in 2 world wars making extreme sacrifices in order that you live in the way in which you do today. You should be forever in their debt. The work and foundations of freedom that they laid is now taken up by our present armed forces personnel who work to ensure that our shores remain a secure place to live.

 

You may indeed at times have occasion to benifit from the expertise of our excellent nurses, you may never in your life meet a soldier, however the soldier that you never meet is the one working daily to ensure that you stay secure in your country.

 

Its not worth bothering to explain to people like that, mate.

[Cascadia Saint]

this thread just shows what a bunch of weirdo's & knobs this site attracts. look at me everyone i have an opinion & i'm going to stuff it down your throat. ffs!

 

This.

[Deppo]

this thread just shows what a bunch of weirdo's & knobs this site attracts. look at me everyone i have an opinion & i'm going to stuff it down your throat. ffs!

 

Nutshell.

[Surman4no7shirt]

Great idea for those on leave after serving abroad. Don't agree with any of the wars we are fighting in at the moment and protested against them but soldiers sign up selflessly and do not choose which wars in which they serve, regardless of what the politicians do (which may cast them in a negative light) . Having said that can we keep the Navy types down the road? They've plenty of free seats there anywhere.

 

 

4. Society requires cannon fodder because a Western capitalist society needs everyone to take their place - that includes everyone from greedy bankers to Privates getting nailed in Afghan.

 

I think you'll find thats "society" not "Western Capitalist Society". Unless I'm mistaken about the large armies and forced labour that communist states have historically had... Everyone to take their place is actually a fairly important idea in all left wing ideology more so than capitalism.

[qwertySFC]

 

I think this is a great idea. Yes, we all know many people do dangerous jobs in the public and private sector, but these guys are in Afghanistan due to many reasons , some we may all disagree or agree with. But, what I do know, if this country was ever under threat these men and women would be the first out there defending this nation and long may they have our 100% support .

[sebastian firefly]

One hopes that your comment is borne out of pure ignorance, as you do many service and ex service personnel a huge disservice. Your forefathers fought in 2 world wars making extreme sacrifices in order that you live in the way in which you do today. You should be forever in their debt. The work and foundations of freedom that they laid is now taken up by our present armed forces personnel who work to ensure that our shores remain a secure place to live.

 

You may indeed at times have occasion to benifit from the expertise of our excellent nurses, you may never in your life meet a soldier, however the soldier that you never meet is the one working daily to ensure that you stay secure in your country.

 

this may indeed be the case my forfathers made many sacrifices to ensure we live the way we do today but not through military actions per se for example and it may sound petty but something as simple as a toilet on building site was fought tooth and nail to acheive so we should be in debt to all those who acheived this small but very beneficial facility my point is that i maintain the contribution in real terms to the day to day nature of my life by the military past and present is at best greatly exaggerated and at worst just delusional

more has been acheived throughout history by thought not military action notwithstanding the serendipitious affects of thse military endeveours

[Micky]

this may indeed be the case my forfathers made many sacrifices to ensure we live the way we do today but not through military actions per se for example and it may sound petty but something as simple as a toilet on building site was fought tooth and nail to acheive so we should be in debt to all those who acheived this small but very beneficial facility my point is that i maintain the contribution in real terms to the day to day nature of my life by the military past and present is at best greatly exaggerated and at worst just delusional

more has been acheived throughout history by thought not military action notwithstanding the serendipitious affects of thse military endeveours

 

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. All it does is make me very very glad that I no longer serve and no longer get deployed to operational areas. On the flip side it makes me absolutely gutted for those men and woman who are currently at the sharp end doing their utmost to ensure that we remain a free and democratic society.