It might be just me but

[revolution saint]

Does anyone feel that the grief on the main board is a little over the top? I really don't mean to criticise anyone who feels that pain that deeply but I'm afraid I don't share it in quite the same way. Of course it's sad and of course I sympathise with his family and friends but it's hard for me to feel exactly like they do because I never knew him.

 

Some of the suggestions such as renaming the stadium and ending all your posts with WIFM just seem very weird to me. I'm not trying to be inflammatory or controversial but does anyone else think the same or am I just a heartless b**tard?

[Colinjb]

It doesn't to me.

 

One man gave so much of his own fortune to help our club that I truly am amazingly grateful and incredibly saddened by his passing. He will be missing out on so much enjoyment through passing before his time.

 

Read my blog for more details of why I feel as I do.

[SuperMikey]

Well, he saved our club from extinction for one. Then he appointed a ruthless Executive Chairman (NC), who has in turn employed a top-class coaching and management staff at all levels. He pumped millions into wiping off all of our debts, helping to buy key players like Lambert and Fonte, and funded work on our academy and training facilities so that we can produce stars of our own in the future. Who would have thought, when we were staring down the barrel of the gun of oblivion (bad metaphor, sorry) after our relegation from the CCC, that at the end of next season we'd have 2 of the football league's top scorers playing for us and we'd win a cup final at Wembley? And to top it all off, he seemed like a genuine, kind-hearted and lovely bloke who had a real passion for this club and wanted us to succeed. I'd say that's worth mourning tbh.

 

I guess it all depends on whether you saw ML as 'another owner', or somebody that we all owe a huge amount of thanks to, and who this world will miss very much.

 

WIFM

[Arizona]

I've spent a year thinking Markus was too good to be true and there must be some sort of catch. Sadly there was. He was the perfect owner in most respects. Being up to his eyebrows in cash is always a good start, but he seemed to care deeply about the club, it's future and the fans. He wasn't some soulless, faceless Middle Eastern consortium who just wanted a play thing to show off to their mates, before f**king off and leaving us with massive debts and a huge wage bill. He cared. At Wembley he was stood there smiling taking pictures with his digital camera, just like every other fan. He was one of a kind and I doubt we'll ever get an owner that good.

 

Don't think it's really OTT, just a LOT of people with strong emotions.

[buctootim]

Im not one for public outpourings of grief for people I dont know. When my girlfriend told me early Sunday morning that Princess Diana had died my first question was 'what time?' because I was planning a Sunday morning in bed with the papers and didnt want to read endless coverage about her. I didnt know her, nothing she had done had touched me personally, and tbh I didnt really respect her as a person.

 

Markus Liebherr is different. He did something very good, noble even, which had a huge and direct impact on all Saints fans. Every member of this forum has benefitted and been touched by his actions. He saved the club and without him the club, team and this board would likely be no more. As an added bonus, he did it in an unassuming modest way, staying back from the limelight - and he died too young before he got to see the benefits of his efforts.

 

So no, the reactions on this board aren't over the top. He deserved no less.

Edited 13 August, 2010 by buctootim

[Whitey Grandad]

I'm with you, Arizona.

[ericofarabia]

 

This is a pretty unique situation where by one mans actions, in saving our club from extinction, has had an incredible impact on tens, even hundreds of thousands of peoples lives.

 

We as a club were days away from closing down, now a year on we are in a vastly improved situation and looking forwards rather than backwards.

 

Ultimately this is down to one man, and as said above, I'm not one for the mass hysteria emotion type thing, but here we have a person who has in one short year had as marked a contribution in some ways as Ted, Lawrie or Matt has. Without him we could well be without a club, fullstop.

 

I'm still bewildered at my feelings of loss at a man who has only been known to exist to me for a year, I've never met, never seen in person and not even seen in an interview. I've only seen still images, or footage from games at SMS and of course Wembley. Yet somehow I'm feeling as sad as when I heard about the passing of Bobby Stokes, Ossie, Alan Ball and Ted Bates.

 

Over reaction maybe ..... but real all the same.

[CB Saint]

Does anyone feel that the grief on the main board is a little over the top? I really don't mean to criticise anyone who feels that pain that deeply but I'm afraid I don't share it in quite the same way. Of course it's sad and of course I sympathise with his family and friends but it's hard for me to feel exactly like they do because I never knew him.

 

Some of the suggestions such as renaming the stadium and ending all your posts with WIFM just seem very weird to me. I'm not trying to be inflammatory or controversial but does anyone else think the same or am I just a heartless b**tard?

 

I think you are confusing grief with gratitude. I am massively grateful for what Markus did - for that I will never forget. The renaming of the stadium etc is being mooted as recognition of that debt of gratitude that every Saints fan has to Markus.

 

I know he was only involved in SFC for a short time, but I am struggling to think of many people, player or otherwise, who made such a difference to the Saints. So in my book he deserves everything accorded to his memory.

 

WIFM

[BadgerBadger]

We're such a reserved bunch us Brits that it can take something like this for people to get really emotional and run with it - I don't think it's a bad thing, I'm personally saddened but not overcome with grief

[miserableoldgit]

I have mixed feelings about this. Sure, I didn`t know Markus personally, but I feel very sad on a human level. Apart from the obvious gratitude that we all owe him for saving the club, he came across as a really nice genuine bloke and what particularly upsets me is seeing in my mind the picture of him on that day at Wembley wearing his Saints scarf, taking pictures of the crowd with a massive smile on his face. He was in at the start of what hopefully will be an exciting journey and now he will not be there to enjoy what he started. Over reaction? Possibly, but let everyone express their grief at his passing in their own way. There is no right or wrong way. And I make no apologies in saying "WIFM!"

[Hatch]

Does anyone feel that the grief on the main board is a little over the top? I really don't mean to criticise anyone who feels that pain that deeply but I'm afraid I don't share it in quite the same way. Of course it's sad and of course I sympathise with his family and friends but it's hard for me to feel exactly like they do because I never knew him.

 

Some of the suggestions such as renaming the stadium and ending all your posts with WIFM just seem very weird to me. I'm not trying to be inflammatory or controversial but does anyone else think the same or am I just a heartless b**tard?

 

make it two heartless bastards then.

 

of course, I'm saddened , it's a very sad state of affairs, and of course I am extremely grateful for him for saving our club.

 

I'll sign the book of condolence, I'll support the renaming of a stand, I would oppose a statue or renaming the stadium.

 

But people crying publicly and the leaving £50 shirts outside the stadium that will end up in the bin in a few days time all seems a bit weird to me.

I do also think there is a lot of 'I am suffering more than you, I'm going down the stadium to lay a wreath, but lets find out what time the SKY TV cameras will be there '

[miserableoldgit]

make it two heartless bastards then.

 

of course, I'm saddened , it's a very sad state of affairs, and of course I am extremely grateful for him for saving our club.

 

I'll sign the book of condolence, I'll support the renaming of a stand, I would oppose a statue or renaming the stadium.

 

But people crying publicly and the leaving £50 shirts outside the stadium that will end up in the bin in a few days time all seems a bit weird to me.

I do also think there is a lot of 'I am suffering more than you, I'm going down the stadium to lay a wreath, but lets find out what time the SKY TV cameras will be there '

Do you REALLY think that people are doing this??

[Saint Mikey]

To be honest, I agree completely with you Rev Saint. Let me put this is context first as it's a precarious subject. Firstly, I am extremely grateful that the bloke saved my club. Had we gone to the wall, I'm not sure what I would have done. I certainly wouldn't enjoy football as much as I do now, as I couldn't have supported anyone else. Secondly, I do have commiserations for his family - the same I would do if anyone connected to Saints died.

 

However, I think all the suggestions of re-naming the stadium, face on the seats, black stripe on the kit, black kit all season - is way, way over the top, verging on the embarassing. Very, very few fans would have met Markus and all this outpouring of grief is pathetic and self-gratifying. WIFM is the most cringe-worthy and pathetic suggestion I've ever seen in my life - grow some balls - you're all blokes aren't you?!

 

I don't see why he should have a bigger accolade than Ted, who put 40 years of his life into this club. Let's commemorate his death in the same way we would any other Saints great:

 

1. Minutes silence

2. Black armbands

 

I agree that Markus deserves a little than an ex-player, so the Training Ground would be a perfect thing to leave a lasting legacy. Let's have a bit of class about this, and not turn into Scousers and start lighting a candle or boycotting a paper at the drop of a hat...

 

I know people won't like this post, but it needed to be said and at least I've got the ****** to say it. Try and make your replies, considered, objective and intelligent...

[Hatch]

[/b]

Do you REALLY think that people are doing this??

 

 

some, yes.

[dubai_phil]

Change Management and Grief Counselling, both lucrative careers that can be built up on what happens to people when an unexpected or unhappy intrusion comes into their lives. There's a chain of emotions that people go through, shock, denial, anger, fear etc etc. Everyone is affected in different ways.

 

A Behavioural Scientist or kid at Uni could have a field day writing about the emotional impact that the past 5 years have had on us a group - the constant "just hanging on", the nightmare of the Lowe years, the relegation, the lies, the spin, the hope - and then the "it can't have happened to us" moment of Marcus coming to the club.

 

Many on here have shown that they still had not grasped that (possibly) things had changed for the better, and many more just saw the dream of the "plan" that ML & NC had put together (somehow).

 

The news of losing Marcus has brought on strange emotions. We didn't know him and yet all of us have that mental image of him at Wembley with his camera that paints the image of him as our favourite Uncle and that somehow deep down has triggered the sadness. Would we have felt the same level of sadness if it had been (tragically) another figure in our heritage? Don't know.

 

We have been so used to be being let down over the years and lied to over the years that the weks of distrust and arguments on here have reflected the fear that those days haven't really gone away. The club, AP & NC have all said we're bringing in more players and yet we've argued they are incompetent or plain lying.

 

And now, suddenly Marcus is gone. The favourite Uncle who reflected the HOPE that things really had changed, someone we could see as a genuine fan understanding what that afternoon at Wembley meant rather than relying on somebody earning a living from us to tell us everything really will be better.

 

The sadness, grief hides the real emotion that we feel deep down - fear. Fear that maybe something has now changed at the top. Fear that the estate/will hasn't made clear provisions for the business and crusade that is Southampton FC, and also Fear that the "new" Holding Company/Owner" is not going to be someone who "gets it" as far as our club is concerned.

 

These emotions and this uncertainty affects the forum, and it will affect the club and every aspect of Marcus's business empire. A lot of people here have their emotions invested, but many thousands more have their lives, families and income invested and will also be in shock.

 

It is the uncertainty that underlies the sadness now. If the truth be told, as emtional investors in the Marcus "family" and "dream" we are a long way down the list of people who need to be re-assured, the customers, investors and staff of the businesses must come first (including those at SMS) and then we can take our rightful place in line to hear our future.

 

I was shocked by the news of his death. 62 FFS, many of us on here are racing towards that age and it has made many of us stop and think. I was deeply moved by reading the tributes on here and elsewhere and that put a tear in my eye, not the news, but the humanity that so many showed. Now I am worried and concerned as I think we all are. Now we have to wait and trust the club (and the family) to talk to us.

 

Just for once, that step of waiting for news and for once not having to second guess, argue or debate the reasons behind the decisions is unnerving

[sadoldgit]

Does anyone feel that the grief on the main board is a little over the top? I really don't mean to criticise anyone who feels that pain that deeply but I'm afraid I don't share it in quite the same way. Of course it's sad and of course I sympathise with his family and friends but it's hard for me to feel exactly like they do because I never knew him.

 

Some of the suggestions such as renaming the stadium and ending all your posts with WIFM just seem very weird to me. I'm not trying to be inflammatory or controversial but does anyone else think the same or am I just a heartless b**tard?

 

I am with you really. He wasn't here long enough to make the same impact as a Ted Bates or Lawrie McMenemy. Didn't really have a clue what he was like as a man. You'd like to think otherwise, but if Cortese has been acting under his orders then perhaps he was not the sweet old guy we would like to think he was!

 

It was fantastic that he bought the club but I don't think for one minute that we would not have survived if he hadn't.

 

He did a lot for us in a short time frame, but his legacy will never match that of Ted Bates and if the stadium were to be named after anyone, it should be him.

 

RIP Markus. Your arrival brought us new hope. I just pray that those who follow you share your vision for our club and that the new era will continue and not end with your sad and untimely passing.

[miserableoldgit]

some, yes.

How do they know what time that Sky will be there?

[alpine_saint]

I am with you really. He wasn't here long enough to make the same impact as a Ted Bates or Lawrie McMenemy. Didn't really have a clue what he was like as a man. You'd like to think otherwise, but if Cortese has been acting under his orders then perhaps he was not the sweet old guy we would like to think he was!It was fantastic that he bought the club but I don't think for one minute that we would not have survived if he hadn't.

 

He did a lot for us in a short time frame, but his legacy will never match that of Ted Bates and if the stadium were to be named after anyone, it should be him.

 

RIP Markus. Your arrival brought us new hope. I just pray that those who follow you share your vision for our club and that the new era will continue and not end with your sad and untimely passing.

 

This post could only have come from you. Really, only you. The person determined to see good in Rupert Lowe and determined to see everything with him as a point of reference.

 

I dont see anyone wallowing in Scouser-like or Diana-like grief. Those who have admitted to welling up have done so when stimulated by the photos and videos only because of gratitude and the tragedy of him not being able to see the job through to its conclusion.

 

One thing I have noticed about our fan base is that there is an element that always has to look to be different and buck the trend, often claiming to be more loyal or observing the club traditions more. For example, the sash issue, and now sadly the death of an old gentlement who f**king saved the club they claim to hold so dear.

 

Apparently, no-ones contribution is allowed to be spoken in the same breath as Ted Bates's. Pathetic. I reckon Ted would only be too aware of the impact ML made if he were still alive.

[Deppo]

Sorry, I hope you don't mind me posting this question on here. Does anyone know what time the Sky cameras are going to be at the stadium today?

 

WILF!

Edited 13 August, 2010 by Deppo

[MongoNeil]

I tend to agree with the OP, it all seems a little OTT. There was a time in past when we wouldn't have even known who the chairman and owner were, nor really cared. Of course I am saddened, as I am with any loss.

[Deppo]

I tend to agree with the OP, it all seems a little OTT. There was a time in past when we wouldn't have even known who the chairman and owner were, nor really cared. Of course I am saddened, as I am with any loss.

 

Says even more about Markus then, don't you think?

[CB Saint]

To be honest, I agree completely with you Rev Saint. Let me put this is context first as it's a precarious subject. Firstly, I am extremely grateful that the bloke saved my club. Had we gone to the wall, I'm not sure what I would have done. I certainly wouldn't enjoy football as much as I do now, as I couldn't have supported anyone else. Secondly, I do have commiserations for his family - the same I would do if anyone connected to Saints died.

 

However, I think all the suggestions of re-naming the stadium, face on the seats, black stripe on the kit, black kit all season - is way, way over the top, verging on the embarassing. Very, very few fans would have met Markus and all this outpouring of grief is pathetic and self-gratifying. WIFM is the most cringe-worthy and pathetic suggestion I've ever seen in my life - grow some balls - you're all blokes aren't you?!

 

I don't see why he should have a bigger accolade than Ted, who put 40 years of his life into this club. Let's commemorate his death in the same way we would any other Saints great:

 

1. Minutes silence

2. Black armbands

 

I agree that Markus deserves a little than an ex-player, so the Training Ground would be a perfect thing to leave a lasting legacy. Let's have a bit of class about this, and not turn into Scousers and start lighting a candle or boycotting a paper at the drop of a hat...

 

I know people won't like this post, but it needed to be said and at least I've got the ****** to say it. Try and make your replies, considered, objective and intelligent...

 

I'll bite. I don't think it is about length of association but the impact that person has. Ted had a long and distinguished association with the Saints and is rightfully accorded our respect. Markus was associated with the the Saints for a very short period, however the impact that he had will leave a legacy for years to come. Both men have contributed hugely in their different ways and accordingly people want to recoginse MLs input in a more permanent way.

 

There has been some highly emotional reactions but then people are affected differently, some fans will undoubtedly find your view a little cold and heartless.

 

Me, well I sit in the middle somewhere. Saddened? - Yes; Grieving? - No; Grateful? - Eternally

[hypochondriac]

make it two heartless bastards then.

 

of course, I'm saddened , it's a very sad state of affairs, and of course I am extremely grateful for him for saving our club.

 

I'll sign the book of condolence, I'll support the renaming of a stand, I would oppose a statue or renaming the stadium.

 

But people crying publicly and the leaving £50 shirts outside the stadium that will end up in the bin in a few days time all seems a bit weird to me.

I do also think there is a lot of 'I am suffering more than you, I'm going down the stadium to lay a wreath, but lets find out what time the SKY TV cameras will be there '

 

Couldn't agree more. Each to their own but it's all very odd to me.

Edited 13 August, 2010 by hypochondriac

[warsash saint]

I'll bite. I don't think it is about length of association but the impact that person has. Ted had a long and distinguished association with the Saints and is rightfully accorded our respect. Markus was associated with the the Saints for a very short period, however the impact that he had will leave a legacy for years to come. Both men have contributed hugely in their different ways and accordingly people want to recoginse MLs input in a more permanent way.

 

There has been some highly emotional reactions but then people are affected differently, some fans will undoubtedly find your view a little cold and heartless.

 

Me, well I sit in the middle somewhere. Saddened? - Yes; Grieving? - No; Grateful? - Eternally

 

This

[hypochondriac]

This

 

Not wanting to cause an argument, but I'm pretty sure Mikey said he was grateful as well.

[Foxstone]

I've spent a year thinking Markus was too good to be true and there must be some sort of catch. Sadly there was. He was the perfect owner in most respects. Being up to his eyebrows in cash is always a good start, but he seemed to care deeply about the club, it's future and the fans. He wasn't some soulless, faceless Middle Eastern consortium who just wanted a play thing to show off to their mates, before f**king off and leaving us with massive debts and a huge wage bill. He cared. At Wembley he was stood there smiling taking pictures with his digital camera, just like every other fan. He was one of a kind and I doubt we'll ever get an owner that good.

 

Don't think it's really OTT, just a LOT of people with strong emotions.

 

Agree with all of this post but chiefly the line emboldened !

 

He chose us to benefit from his integrity, vision and benevolence and we survived and thrived as a result.

He was clearly a kind and warm gentleman too as many have pointed out on the numerous tributes to him.

 

90 odd football clubs around England would walk over broken glass to have an owner as good as Markus Liebherr !

Anybody doubt that just ask Mero, Mack or even Corpy !

 

So yes, many of us have every right to not only feel gratitude but immense sadness in his passing.

 

WIFM

[Foxstone]

Sorry, I hope you don't mind me posting this question on here. Does anyone know what time the Sky cameras are going to be at the stadium today?

 

WILF!

 

You are just a pizz taking little shytehawk are'nt you !

 

It strikes me as though you have no respect for anybody or anything !

 

Keep your smart comments for school in future!

[mickn]

Does anyone feel that the grief on the main board is a little over the top? I really don't mean to criticise anyone who feels that pain that deeply but I'm afraid I don't share it in quite the same way. Of course it's sad and of course I sympathise with his family and friends but it's hard for me to feel exactly like they do because I never knew him.

 

Some of the suggestions such as renaming the stadium and ending all your posts with WIFM just seem very weird to me. I'm not trying to be inflammatory or controversial but does anyone else think the same or am I just a heartless b**tard?

 

Totally agree and I agree with Hatch, I have no doubt people have gone to the stadium for the attention and the cameras. Some of this show of grief is way ott imo. Yes it's sad, he was only 62 but let's get a grip, none of us knew him personally.

[Deppo]

You are just a pizz taking little shytehawk are'nt you !

 

It strikes me as though you have no respect for anybody or anything !

 

Keep your smart comments for school in future!

 

If you can't answer the question, please keep your filthy language to yourself. I am shocked and disgusted.

[Robsk II]

Particularly at a time like this. WIFE.

[Thedelldays]

it is a sad day...but people saying they have been in tears is OTT imo...

[Robsk II]

Agreed. But WIFE.

[Thedelldays]

Agreed. But WIFE.

/????

[Robsk II]

Sorry, using a colemak keyboard and have to concentrate more. WITM

[miserableoldgit]

Sorry, using a colemak keyboard and have to concentrate more. WITM

 

More concentration I think!!

[Hatch]

Robsk, I can see it , but I'm not getting it.

[Robsk II]

No, I wouldn't either. Hard to fype.

 

[keithd]

I

Saddened? - Yes; Grieving? - No; Grateful? - Eternally

 

 

sums it up for me perfectly

[Lord Duckhunter]

I find the whole modern approach to death and bit unnerving to be honest. God knows how our generation would have coped with the war. I guess it started with Elvis and then reached a peak with Lady Di, when the whole Country went right OTT. I was sad when Ted, Bally and Ossie died, when George Harrison passed and will be very sad when Lawrie takes his last freebe. However sad I am, I see no reason to lay a wreath, shirt or scarf outside SMS. A minutes silance, black armbands and a full house each week in the house that ML saved, will do me. The rest of it is too OTT for my taste.

[The Kraken]

I find the whole modern approach to death and bit unnerving to be honest. God knows how our generation would have coped with the war. I guess it started with Elvis and then reached a peak with Lady Di, when the whole Country went right OTT. I was sad when Ted, Bally and Ossie died, when George Harrison passed and will be very sad when Lawrie takes his last freebe. However sad I am, I see no reason to lay a wreath, shirt or scarf outside SMS. A minutes silance, black armbands and a full house each week in the house that ML saved, will do me. The rest of it is too OTT for my taste.

 

Very much agree with this, and with CB Saint's assessment of it.

 

I saw one poster on the main board say it was "the most upset I've ever been for a death outside the family". Fair enough if it is, and maybe he/she has been sheltered from losing close friends, but the amount of grief is a bit excessive for how I feel. I'm very sad that Markus is gone, he was a perfect owner in so many respects, but I just don't feel the grief that others claim to do.

[Robsk II]

I've never cried over the death of someone I didn't personally know. Actually, I can only ever recall doing so once, and that was only because of how upset my gran was, and I was about 10. I couldn't have cared less when Diana died, and I've never understood why so many weirdos actually felt personal grief. Any death is sad, but one of success, even more so one of grand priviledge, are considerably less troubling to me than the millions that die each year of famine, treatable diseases, as innocents in war, etc.

[saintjinksie]

Does anyone feel that the grief on the main board is a little over the top? I really don't mean to criticise anyone who feels that pain that deeply but I'm afraid I don't share it in quite the same way. Of course it's sad and of course I sympathise with his family and friends but it's hard for me to feel exactly like they do because I never knew him.

 

Some of the suggestions such as renaming the stadium and ending all your posts with WIFM just seem very weird to me. I'm not trying to be inflammatory or controversial but does anyone else think the same or am I just a heartless b**tard?

 

i agree, very over the top. ive never even heard him speak. an article in the echo compared him with ted bates, saying they were similar size legends. Ted bates put 50 years of hardowkr and effort in to saints. liebhrr was only here 13 months. we should be grateful for his cheque book mind you

[Deppo]

I cried my eyes out when Goose died. I didn't know him.