As Shakespeare once wrote ....

[Gingeletiss]

I didnt go crying to the mods like hypochondriac, so your analogy is completely WRONG, as usual...

 

I know, but I thought it was funny when I saw it on the other thread, and still do.

[Miltonaggro]

That was worthy of Oscar Wilde! That's what i was referring to earlier!...

[derry]

It's not the losing on Saturday that is annoying it's the manner in which we lost. We had the lions share of possession in the first half and apart from two poor headers from Hammond we hit a succession of high crosses at our two strikers that didn't cause Plymouth a problem. After we went behind and until Lallana came on and gave us a better tempo the players were guilty of retreating into their shells. When a team sticks most of their players in front of goal they have to be shifted around, we have no idea how to do this. Players continually coming inside only contributes to the congestion together with central midfielders whose instinct is to hold their positions. The way to beat the mass defence without the big target man is to get down the lines and round the back, but then we don't have the pace and play a left footer on the right who nearly always wants to come inside. As well as that, the central midfield players have to try and make runs up the middle through the strikers, whilst the two strikers fan out to take their markers out of the way, allowing the midfielders to overload the defenders. The central midfielders don't make these runs and the strikers are easily marked.

[Whitey Grandad]

Well, thanks for that.

 

Who ever claimed an opinion to be a fact ?

 

There are those who cannot differentiate. Needless to say, my comment was not directed at you, of course.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

I see your reputation proceeds you

 

Forsooth! It would be worse if it preceded him!

[Wes Tender]

For the record, I do actually agree there are too many threads on the photo ban subject. I also agree that those who just seem to enjoy wallowing in negativity and saying 'I told you so' if something turns out to come true, adds no value to this site whatsoever.

 

I also think this site is pretty tedious, but because when I try and raise my concerns in any given thread, more often than not the subject gets lost amongst the abuse and insults and complete inability of a large number of posters to respect a different opinion to their own and debate it in a constructive way, rather than some of the rubbish we end up with.

 

The mods have a tough job. I've been there, done it, got numerous t-shirts. They can't be on here all the time, and frankly, they only have to moderate when the posters themselves can't behave themselves or sort themselves out. The fact they have to do so much, says more about the posters than it does about the mods.

 

Your posts are always well reasoned, interesting and informative and in the spirit of good honest debate. I usually find myself in agreement with most of your opinions and respect your right to state those with which I disagree. That is how it should be. But as you say, there are several on here who when they encounter others who disagree with them, resort to rubbishing them using juvenile and abusive language.

 

Granted that the moderators do a difficult job and cannot be everywhere at once. But as we both are in agreement that there are too many threads for example on this issue of the photographers' ban, then the solution is simplicity itself. Instead of a Mod adding to the number of threads on this subject with one of his own, all except one of them should be shut. Anybody who feels inclined to add their thoughts to the subject could add it to the remaining thread.

 

If the multiple threads on one subject were reduced to the one where the subject matter was contentious, the moderators task would be simplified. They would find most of the infractable stuff only on the contentious threads and fewer of them to watch over.

 

Perhaps in the interests of those like you and I, who have expressed opinions that this constant bickering is becoming tedious, it might be worthwhile the Mods doing something along those lines.

[Whitey Grandad]

Forsooth! It would be worse if it preceded him!

 

'Proceeds' is better than 'predeceases'

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Your posts are always well reasoned, interesting and informative and in the spirit of good honest debate. I usually find myself in agreement with most of your opinions and respect your right to state those with which I disagree. That is how it should be. But as you say, there are several on here who when they encounter others who disagree with them, resort to rubbishing them using juvenile and abusive language.

 

Granted that the moderators do a difficult job and cannot be everywhere at once. But as we both are in agreement that there are too many threads for example on this issue of the photographers' ban, then the solution is simplicity itself. Instead of a Mod adding to the number of threads on this subject with one of his own, all except one of them should be shut. Anybody who feels inclined to add their thoughts to the subject could add it to the remaining thread.

 

If the multiple threads on one subject were reduced to the one where the subject matter was contentious, the moderators task would be simplified. They would find most of the infractable stuff only on the contentious threads and fewer of them to watch over.

 

Perhaps in the interests of those like you and I, who have expressed opinions that this constant bickering is becoming tedious, it might be worthwhile the Mods doing something along those lines.

 

Surely there was more bickering on this forum (or its predecessor) when Lowe was jousting with klingons or throwing train paintings in the skip?

Actually looking back I think we had more fun in those days - I sort of miss Lowe...a bit!

[ladysaint]

Entered in error.

Edited 10 August, 2010 by ladysaint
Error

[Wes Tender]

Surely there was more bickering on this forum (or its predecessor) when Lowe was jousting with klingons or throwing train paintings in the skip?

Actually looking back I think we had more fun in those days - I sort of miss Lowe...a bit!

 

I miss the cut and thrust of debates we had then too.

 

But the situation is entirely different now. Then, we debated major issues regarding the shareholdings, reverse takeover, the new manager every season, EGMs, etc. The debate was fractured basically between those who came to be known as the Lowe Luvvies and the antis who wanted him gone from the club, but unless I'm mistaken, the standard of debate was higher then than it is now. Why, we have even had threads recently where several serious posters from that era have decried the fall in standards of debate and said that they rarely post now as a result. That is sad. Inevitably there will be others joining the forum who prefer the atmosphere to be confrontational and juvenile and so the standards of debate will drop even further and be self-perpetuating. If the Mods do not wish that to happen, then the time to nip this in the bud is right now.

[Miltonaggro]

Don't think anyone would ever miss Lowe FF (perhaps his mater), it seems to me that the problem is having been given a genuine gilt edged golden opportunity to unite and rebuild the club as a beacon of all that is good in football, NC is managing to disenfranchise football fans inside and outside of the club.

 

Thank goodness for ML our saviour, but I hope that what we are seeing from NC is a learning curve. English football differs from Swiss merchant banking both culturally and in terms of media scrutiny. An apt analogy is bobby v speed camera, in that some decisions are best dealt with via consideration of discretionary human factors that cannot be addressed robotically regardless of 'the law'...

[hypochondriac]

Don't think anyone would ever miss Lowe FF (perhaps his mater), it seems to me that the problem is having been given a genuine gilt edged golden opportunity to unite and rebuild the club as a beacon of all that is good in football, NC is managing to disenfranchise football fans inside and outside of the club.

 

Thank goodness for ML our saviour, but I hope that what we are seeing from NC is a learning curve. English football differs from Swiss merchant banking both culturally and in terms of media scrutiny. An apt analogy is bobby v speed camera, in that some decisions are best dealt with via consideration of discretionary human factors that cannot be addressed robotically regardless of 'the law'...

 

Superb post. Post of the week in my book. Sums up exactly how I see it.

[Minty]

Indeed, very well put.

[wild-saint]

Entered in error.

 

IVe done that once or twice in my time. Usually Alcohol related to be fair

[docker-p]

He want to shout "look at me"?

It's pointless posts like this that spoil this site. If you don't agree with the posters comments ignore them or say something constructive.

[Channon's Sideburns]

I think we need to judge things after the first six games.

 

In my mind, that's how Cortese is viewing things...Pards should have changed things earlier on Saturday TBH, but, these things happen..

 

Wouldn't mind O'Neill though....

[ohwhenthesaints]

It's pointless posts like this that spoil this site. If you don't agree with the posters comments ignore them or say something constructive.

 

You're right, we should all start a new topic when we have an opinion on something, even if there are plenty of other topics open in which we can discuss it.

[OldNick]

IVe done that once or twice in my time. Usually Alcohol related to be fair

 

I don't think we should ask what you entered in error after your alcohol.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Don't think anyone would ever miss Lowe FF (perhaps his mater), it seems to me that the problem is having been given a genuine gilt edged golden opportunity to unite and rebuild the club as a beacon of all that is good in football, NC is managing to disenfranchise football fans inside and outside of the club.

 

Thank goodness for ML our saviour, but I hope that what we are seeing from NC is a learning curve. English football differs from Swiss merchant banking both culturally and in terms of media scrutiny. An apt analogy is bobby v speed camera, in that some decisions are best dealt with via consideration of discretionary human factors that cannot be addressed robotically regardless of 'the law'...

 

 

Why make any kind of differentiation between English football and Swiss merchant banking? Frankly I see that as an extremely derogatory remark - NC has clearly got the credentials to be a great BUSINESS leader. And that is what he is here for because without this we will not survive and indeed improve longer term. Has anyone considered that NC is in fact shaping the club for the future - to change the status quo of the old guard in English football? Because it needs a massive shake up - the old dogs with their old ways are failing to live up to the realities of the game now. It's time for a new approach and when eventually Saints make it back to the Prem all the building blocks will be in place and someone will have to sit-up and take notice of "the Saints way".

[Wade Garrett]

Surely there was more bickering on this forum (or its predecessor) when Lowe was jousting with klingons or throwing train paintings in the skip?

Actually looking back I think we had more fun in those days - I sort of miss Lowe...a bit!

 

I miss lifelongsaint, St David and HelpmeRhonda. Try as they might, but dune and alpine are not in their league.

[Wade Garrett]

People moaning about Cortese, should remember that if it wasn't for him, we wouldn't have Markus at the club.

 

Keep doing your job Nicola, if you crack a few eggs then so be it. I'll be eternally grateful for your part in rescuing the club.

[CanadaSaint]

Has anyone considered that NC is in fact shaping the club for the future - to change the status quo of the old guard in English football? Because it needs a massive shake up - the old dogs with their old ways are failing to live up to the realities of the game now. It's time for a new approach and when eventually Saints make it back to the Prem all the building blocks will be in place and someone will have to sit-up and take notice of "the Saints way".

 

I think that's exactly what he's doing - or, more to the point, what he thinks he's doing. And I wish him well with it because English football is unsustainable in its current form.

 

But there are - as usual - some "howevers".

 

Firstly, his vision of sustainable football in the future is likely to see games priced out of the reach of some of the current fan base. The signs are already there.

 

Secondly, his plan can only be achieved if we enjoy success on the pitch - so don't expect too much patience on the Pardew front; I suspect he feels that he's already shown too much.

 

Thirdly, he (like Rupert) wants to upgrade the Academy so that we develop more from within rather than pay ludicrous transfer and agents' fees.

 

Fourthly, and this is where I have the biggest worries, his impulsive and confrontational nature is starting to lose him support among the very people whose support he'll need in order to succeed. (Or, viewed another way, he's p*ssing off people who can make life difficult for him if they don't like him.)

 

He has arguably p*ssed off much of the fan base, the media, his fellow chairmen, many of the SMS staff, some the club's historical icons, and a number of others. He has even (allegedly) fallen out with the redevelopers of Staplewood (and delayed a key part of his plan), and firing Pardew (even if he deserves it) would cause good managers to think twice about coming here.

 

I want Cortese to succeed as much as anyone, but he needs to pause, ponder and make some significant adjustments in his approach.

 

He would demand exactly that from Pardew if things weren't going so well. He needs to apply the same standards to himself.

[hackedoff]

This "Its only one game FFS" comment is get oh-so worn out.

 

We spent 2 MONTHS getting ready for this game, and were supposed to have prepared in such a manner as to hit the ground running.

 

We were toothless up front, and demonstrated a complete lack of cover for RLs injury. We are clearly a one-man or two-man team.

 

We had no Plan B for after we went behind.

 

The team is in trouble; I wish people would look beyond the pretty but ineffectual stuff of the first half...

 

Agree. Getting p1ssed off with people saying how we dominated games that we didn,t win. " The ref was crap " , " We should have had a pen", " The pitch was poor ", We had players missing " " play like that all season we will walk this league" . Yes will will probably finish in the play-offs, but no way will we come in the top two ( without some quality signings ). This season is a results only season for NC regardless of how we play,if the results don,t come then Pardew will be gone . What happens then is anybodies guess .

[Secret Site Agent]

Right, I'm going to say this just once, and if it doesn't get through I'll start another thread with it on.

 

The most virralent of posters that come on here, and we all know who they are as they have a notoriety going back years, lets be honest, are not makiing this point and are disagreeing with the NC bashing. And me, being a logical,almost on the borders of a Valcan, look at the half glass and see it's full, slightly on the happy clappy side, but is also happy having a good moan agrees with the reckless, illogical, look at the half glass and see it's empty, suicidal depressive, who as far as I remember have always been contentious and contrary.................. Don't you all think that 11 thousand threads started by 11 people all saying NC is a git, may get the point at some stage that:

 

a) We, the silent majority, the swinish multitude, disagree

b) That on the next thread, We, the silent majority, the swinish multitude, still disagree

c) that on the previous threads We, the silent majority, the swinish multitude, have always disagreed

d) No matter how you change it, the title, the start, the information from inside the camp, We, the silent majority, the swinish multitude, will always disagree, because nothing you have said over a miilion times before has changed our minds, and never will. No matter how much you repeat it.

 

Please post something new to change our minds. try a winning thought out argument for a change without resorting to name calling. We don't mind him, at the moment, you see. Us lot, the rest of the people here. We don't like some of what he's done, but we still don't mind. We just want to win the football game. that is all. And occasionally some Pompey baiting, but mostly just football.

 

Try a different tact. Post about who you think will score the most goals before Xmas. Or if you think we should try a different formation. Post about what you would like the Southampton style to be, or if you think we should drop Ricky to the bench for a few games and learn to do without him, instead of as at the moment, being forced to do without him, before it happens again. That would be a nice subject for the Post or two.

[Window Cleaner]

we should rather look to the soliloquy from Henry V, we are a band of brothers,for whomsoever supports the same team as me is my brother be he ever so vile.........etc

[Gingeletiss]

Right, I'm going to say this just once, and if it doesn't get through I'll start another thread with it on.

 

The most virralent of posters that come on here, and we all know who they are as they have a notoriety going back years, lets be honest, are not makiing this point and are disagreeing with the NC bashing. And me, being a logical,almost on the borders of a Valcan, look at the half glass and see it's full, slightly on the happy clappy side, but is also happy having a good moan agrees with the reckless, illogical, look at the half glass and see it's empty, suicidal depressive, who as far as I remember have always been contentious and contrary.................. Don't you all think that 11 thousand threads started by 11 people all saying NC is a git, may get the point at some stage that:

 

a) We, the silent majority, the swinish multitude, disagree

b) That on the next thread, We, the silent majority, the swinish multitude, still disagree

c) that on the previous threads We, the silent majority, the swinish multitude, have always disagreed

d) No matter how you change it, the title, the start, the information from inside the camp, We, the silent majority, the swinish multitude, will always disagree, because nothing you have said over a miilion times before has changed our minds, and never will. No matter how much you repeat it.

 

Please post something new to change our minds. try a winning thought out argument for a change without resorting to name calling. We don't mind him, at the moment, you see. Us lot, the rest of the people here. We don't like some of what he's done, but we still don't mind. We just want to win the football game. that is all. And occasionally some Pompey baiting, but mostly just football.

 

Try a different tact. Post about who you think will score the most goals before Xmas. Or if you think we should try a different formation. Post about what you would like the Southampton style to be, or if you think we should drop Ricky to the bench for a few games and learn to do without him, instead of as at the moment, being forced to do without him, before it happens again. That would be a nice subject for the Post or two.

 

 

What a great post, and I mean A GREAT POST. The bit highlighted is the main thrust of my argument, so well said sir.

[Secret Site Agent]

This "Its only one game FFS" comment is get oh-so worn out.

 

We spent 2 MONTHS getting ready for this game, and were supposed to have prepared in such a manner as to hit the ground running.

 

We were toothless up front, and demonstrated a complete lack of cover for RLs injury. We are clearly a one-man or two-man team.

 

We had no Plan B for after we went behind.

 

The team is in trouble; I wish people would look beyond the pretty but ineffectual stuff of the first half...

 

 

Well F me, this is more like it, a good debate...................

 

Although I agree in part, I think we need to concentrate on a few games with Rickie on the Bench, I dont think we are as toothless as you say. We have a good squad on paper and time to improve. I know what you mean about two months but WHO is the big question. how do we know there weren't a number of who's who were WAY too expensive, (thanks to the agents) or turned out to be crap after being scouted, or who were being watched at the WC and failed to impress? we don't know. But we do know we still have time and losing a few wont hurt us. Hopefully it'll take some of the pressure off, and I think they need that.

 

Today, I mostly disagree with Alpine, but do concede some points.

 

 

 

............................oh, and it's All Nicolas fault........................sorry, force of habit.

[alpine_saint]

What a great post, and I mean A GREAT POST. The bit highlighted is the main thrust of my argument, so well said sir.

 

Except that if "Us lot" "still dont mind", why are there so many threads full of moaning about him ?

[Wade Garrett]

Except that if "Us lot" "still dont mind", why are there so many threads full of moaning about him ?

 

Because some people constantly droan on about the same things.

[Gingeletiss]

Except that if "Us lot" "still dont mind", why are there so many threads full of moaning about him ?

 

Because Alps, there are a few posters who are very vocal on here, and dominate most of the threads. They have issues with NC, and will have the rest of us, belive that their viewpoint is the right viewpoint. I have seen very little evidence to support any of their arguments, but according to Stu, I'm jealous because I'm not 'in the know', and then there's Hypo, who keeps posting as if he is the wise old owl, but has in fact, not produced one shred of evidence. Why they do it, who knows, why do you keep attacking AP, some people it seems, are just not fans in the way I choose to be.

[alpine_saint]

Because Alps, there are a few posters who are very vocal on here, and dominate most of the threads. They have issues with NC, and will have the rest of us, belive that their viewpoint is the right viewpoint. I have seen very little evidence to support any of their arguments, but according to Stu, I'm jealous because I'm not 'in the know', and then there's Hypo, who keeps posting as if he is the wise old owl, but has in fact, not produced one shred of evidence. Why they do it, who knows, why do you keep attacking AP, some people it seems, are just not fans in the way I choose to be.

 

Ginge, if you want an explanation of why I attack AP, look no further than the f**king mess unfolding at SMS this evening......

[CanadaSaint]

Because Alps, there are a few posters who are very vocal on here, and dominate most of the threads. They have issues with NC, and will have the rest of us, belive that their viewpoint is the right viewpoint. I have seen very little evidence to support any of their arguments, but according to Stu, I'm jealous because I'm not 'in the know', and then there's Hypo, who keeps posting as if he is the wise old owl, but has in fact, not produced one shred of evidence. Why they do it, who knows, why do you keep attacking AP, some people it seems, are just not fans in the way I choose to be.

 

The circle of people concerned about how NC is handling things is much broader than you and Secret Site Agent seem willing to acknowledge, which makes you just as guilty of believing "that (your) viewpoint is the right viewpoint."

 

We're not all as vocal as Dune or Stu or Hypo, and we're not all as "anti-Cortese" as they seem to be, but we hold what we believe to be valid concerns.

 

I think we truly have the ability to become one of the country's leading clubs under Liebherr and Cortese, but I also think that Nicola needs to make some adjustments in his personal approach if that's to happen. If he doesn't, this isn't going to end well - for any of us who love the Club, so there's a good argument that blind allegiance is a dangerous thing.

 

Why is it that every dicussion on this forum degenerates into "Us versus Them" and "Luvvies versus Haters" - along with all the associated sneering and sarcasm - when there's a legitimate discussion to be had?

 

I'm another one on the point of giving up on this forum because of this kind of immature sniping.

[saintscottofthenortham]

Ginge, if you want an explanation of why I attack AP, look no further than the f**king mess unfolding at SMS this evening......

 

Precisely why I wasn't going to pay £16 for tonight.

[sadoldgit]

After the slow start I don't think that Pardew did too much wrong last season. Without the minus 10 we would have been very strong contenders in the play offs. I assume the 5 year plan originally included two years in Div 1 so I don't get why Cortese should get the hump. Pardew had a big job turning this club round and he is making progress. If he does go and someone else comes in and does no better - what then? We should have been out of sight against Plymouth at half time and that without Lambert and Lallana. He said give him 10 games before you judge and I think that is fair enough. As for tonight, how many people were saying lets forget the cups and go for the league - how many will be after him if we lose tonight?

[Minty]

Ginge, if you want an explanation of why I attack AP, look no further than the f**king mess unfolding at SMS this evening......

 

I'll take that kind of mess all season long if it means we win 2-0 every game.

[CB Fry]

Why make any kind of differentiation between English football and Swiss merchant banking? Frankly I see that as an extremely derogatory remark - NC has clearly got the credentials to be a great BUSINESS leader. And that is what he is here for because without this we will not survive and indeed improve longer term. Has anyone considered that NC is in fact shaping the club for the future - to change the status quo of the old guard in English football? Because it needs a massive shake up - the old dogs with their old ways are failing to live up to the realities of the game now. It's time for a new approach and when eventually Saints make it back to the Prem all the building blocks will be in place and someone will have to sit-up and take notice of "the Saints way".

 

 

"The Saints way" espoused by Cortese seems to be drive value, drive profit, drive a return from every single available outlet, from booking fees, to scrapping installments, to parking charges for people using the coaches, from the pittance available from selling our photographs, from trying to kill off competing media outlets.

 

So this "Saints way" that everyone will "sit up and take notice of" is to be more obsessed with the bottom line than Lowe was, and this "shake up" of "the old guard" is that the "old dogs with their old ways" (Who is that exactly? Chelsea? Man City? Scudamore? Sky? Arsenal? ESPN? Man United?) aren't profiteering enough?? So the clubs that will emulate "the Saints way" will be more greedy, and squeeze fans even more, and look to make profit on even more things that aren't nailed down.

 

The "Saints way". Shaking up the "old guard", like, um Sky. With their "old ways" like er 3D HD matches sold at a premium, and taking SSN from freeview. Old Dogs, old ways.

 

The "Saints way" breaking up the collective agreements like photo licencing so every club fights for itself, meaning the big clubs win and the little clubs lose. Even more than now. The old dogs with their old ways.

 

The "Saints way". You can't park there. You can't come in. Didn't you realise you can charge for that too? The "Saints way" shaking up the old dogs. Makes you proud to be a Saints fan, don't it?

 

Sheesh.

 

People used to be called "Lowe luvvies" for coming out with that stuff.

Edited 10 August, 2010 by CB Fry

[aintforever]

Ginge, if you want an explanation of why I attack AP, look no further than the f**king mess unfolding at SMS this evening......

 

This is a classic SaintsWebForum quote. Some bloke slagging off the manager from the other side of Europe about a "****ing mess" he is not even watching that turns out to be a victory.