strike force problem ?

[david in sweden]

believe me; I am not a scandal-monger nor ..after my 50 years as a fan ..do I consider myself a negative person. I'm pleased with the defensive signings - even if we have to wait 3 months to see Richardson..but I am concerned about the "missing link " in our front line.

 

Without Ricky Lambert we would have had a very ordinary-looking mid table side last season, and even the positive addition of Lee Barnard helped.. though I note he was subbed. in almost every game he started. Adam Lallana's injury is disturbing, especially in view of his lack of pre-season. No-one seems to be able to give a return date, and he won't be fit for 90 minute games - even then.

David Connolly is without doubt a class act - even when he wasn't 100% fit, but injuries cost him his Prem. career and we can only hope he's got over that. If any of these is Unavailable we have little or no cover up front. Without Papa Waigo and /or Antonio..we look very thin on the ground.

 

If would be good to think we got another 30+ season fron ricky, but ..there are too many "buts" for my liking and I think we need another established striker to balance out the strike force. Am I alone with that thought ..or ?

[ohwhenthesaints]

believe me; I am not a scandal-monger nor ..after my 50 years as a fan ..do I consider myself a negative person. I'm pleased with the defensive signings - even if we have to wait 3 months to see Richardson..but I am concerned about the "missing link " in our front line.

 

Without Ricky Lambert we would have had a very ordinary-looking mid table side last season, and even the positive addition of Lee Barnard helped.. though I note he was subbed. in almost every game he started. Adam Lallana's injury is disturbing, especially in view of his lack of pre-season. No-one seems to be able to give a return date, and he won't be fit for 90 minute games - even then.

David Connolly is without doubt a class act - even when he wasn't 100% fit, but injuries cost him his Prem. career and we can only hope he's got over that. If any of these is Unavailable we have little or no cover up front. Without Papa Waigo and /or Antonio..we look very thin on the ground.

 

If would be good to think we got another 30+ season fron ricky, but ..there are too many "buts" for my liking and I think we need another established striker to balance out the strike force. Am I alone with that thought ..or ?

 

Didn't Pardew say he was looking for a backup for Lambert? I assume this is still the case.

[alpine_saint]

believe me; I am not a scandal-monger nor ..after my 50 years as a fan ..do I consider myself a negative person. I'm pleased with the defensive signings - even if we have to wait 3 months to see Richardson..but I am concerned about the "missing link " in our front line.

 

Without Ricky Lambert we would have had a very ordinary-looking mid table side last season, and even the positive addition of Lee Barnard helped.. though I note he was subbed. in almost every game he started. Adam Lallana's injury is disturbing, especially in view of his lack of pre-season. No-one seems to be able to give a return date, and he won't be fit for 90 minute games - even then.

David Connolly is without doubt a class act - even when he wasn't 100% fit, but injuries cost him his Prem. career and we can only hope he's got over that. If any of these is Unavailable we have little or no cover up front. Without Papa Waigo and /or Antonio..we look very thin on the ground.

 

If would be good to think we got another 30+ season fron ricky, but ..there are too many "buts" for my liking and I think we need another established striker to balance out the strike force. Am I alone with that thought ..or ?

 

No you are far from alone, but expressing the thought gets you attacked on here.

[Barry the Badger]

Not entirely sure this needed a new thread, think it's been covered in depth elsewhere.

 

Nonetheless, yes a bit more cover up front would be nice. But make no mistake, there is not a club in this division who would not rip your hand off if offered Barnard and Connoly as a front pairing.

 

As such I completely disagree with your judgement that without Lambert we would have been an ordinary mid-table side. Again, Barnard and Connoly are top strikers for this division.

[Smirking_Saint]

Obviously Lamberts goals will be an issue if they are not scored.

 

IMO you are correct to an extent, however it is more the other side of his game that Lambert brings to the team.

 

Pardew seems incapable of changing his tactics to anything other than hoof it towards the forwards, a method which works 90% of the time with the human battering ram that is Rickie, that is why we need a replacement big lump, so that we can continue with this tactic which TBF does work at this level.

 

Its a shame though because you look at the technical ability of the players in all positions and i see no reason why if the long ball was not an option we couldn't move into a slick passing game.

[Saint Garrett]

I think this topic has been done. Everyone knows we need 1 if not 2 attacking players...Don't think it needed it's own thread.

[for_heaven's_Saint]

Every team is the same though. Without Rooney and Berbatov, United are short of options. Without Drogba and Anelka, Chelsea wouldn't be as good.

[saints-cris]

I agree. We got very lucky with no injuries or suspensions to Lambert. We definately need cover and everyone knows that, it's no secret. With that cover that leaves us with 4 very good strikers for this level. (dependant on who we get in as cover for Ricky, we still have 3 very good ones). However, it is just that bit of pace upfront I feel we are lacking. I can't see us having 5 strikers of good quality willing to wait around for their turn in league one though.

[Turkish]

Obviously Lamberts goals will be an issue if they are not scored.

 

IMO you are correct to an extent, however it is more the other side of his game that Lambert brings to the team.

 

Pardew seems incapable of changing his tactics to anything other than hoof it towards the forwards, a method which works 90% of the time with the human battering ram that is Rickie, that is why we need a replacement big lump, so that we can continue with this tactic which TBF does work at this level.

 

Its a shame though because you look at the technical ability of the players in all positions and i see no reason why if the long ball was not an option we couldn't move into a slick passing game.

 

100% agree with you comment about the ability, players like Lallana, Puncheon, Connolly and Schniderlin are built to play that way. Like you say though, horses for courses.

[Smirking_Saint]

100% agree with you comment about the ability, players like Lallana, Puncheon, Connolly and Schniderlin are built to play that way. Like you say though, horses for courses.

 

Even look at Jaidi and Fonte at this level, tbf Fonte especially are pretty good footballing CB's for a league one defence.

[Barry the Badger]

Its a shame though because you look at the technical ability of the players in all positions and i see no reason why if the long ball was not an option we couldn't move into a slick passing game.

 

I really don't buy into this theory that we are a long ball team. Sure, we have used it on occasion, but I've also seen us play some outstanding passing football.

 

Let's take the JPT final as an example (as it's easy to find the goals on youtube). Four goals...

 

1 - Passing move down the right, poor clearance, good cross, handball, penalty.

2 - Throw into box, flick on, header.

3 - Lovely passing move down the left, good cross, back of the net.

4 - Long ball to edge of box, knocked down goal.

 

So a good mix of goals there, and quite representative of our play last season in my opinion. My point is, yes we do use the long ball at times, but we also play some brilliant passing football at times. As a result we are not a one dimensional team and I will take issue with anybody who tries to claim we play too much long ball.

[Smirking_Saint]

I really don't buy into this theory that we are a long ball team. Sure, we have used it on occasion, but I've also seen us play some outstanding passing football.

 

Let's take the JPT final as an example (as it's easy to find the goals on youtube). Four goals...

 

1 - Passing move down the right, poor clearance, good cross, handball, penalty.

2 - Throw into box, flick on, header.

3 - Lovely passing move down the left, good cross, back of the net.

4 - Long ball to edge of box, knocked down goal.

 

So a good mix of goals there, and quite representative of our play last season in my opinion. My point is, yes we do use the long ball at times, but we also play some brilliant passing football at times. As a result we are not a one dimensional team and I will take issue with anybody who tries to claim we play too much long ball.

 

True

 

For me i notice the long ball a lot mind, and although i didn't go to every game last season i think quite a large majority we played the long ball, not that it is a bad thing with lambo upfront as like i said it works.

 

My point really was that we need a like for like replacement for Lambo so they could lead the line in his absence.

[Saint Garrett]

It's just easy to someone 'Jaidi' just to hoof it up the pitch when he doesn't want to risk his passing skills ! Agreed though, we do play some cracking football at times.

[Chez]

we played a lot more short passing stuff under the two Dutchmen, but it was so predictable and teams pushed on making it very difficult. Playing it long stretches teams a litte more and allows us the oppotunity to pass it round. We have a very good balance, but without Lambert as the figurehead we have problems as was shown at Gillingham.

[doddisalegend]

Part of the problem is finding players who are prepared to spend lots of the season on the bench knowing there only going to get used if Lambert gets injured or for cup games. Really good players of the sort everyone wants us to bring in, are good enough to be first team choices at other clubs and would probably prefer that to playing second fiddle to Lambert. we've got three good strikers for this level if the worst comes to the worst Butterfield does a good line in emergency sriker. At some point we are just going to have to accept that if all our best players get injured it's just not meant to be our year. We did ok last year without fielding a proper right back for large parts of the season.

[Victor]

 

Obviously Lamberts goals will be an issue if they are not scored.

 

.

 

Aaaagh, you've made my brain hurt!

[alpine_saint]

You STILL think that's what gets you attacked? Seriously? No-one even disagreed. Your points are lost in the ridiculous character you've created on here and the number of times you post the same moans over and over without any positive and without listening to anyone who questions the timing and quantity and sheer obsessive negativity. You moan you're not taken seriously but you use that to attack everyone else and as a defence for everything.

 

Someone criticises you and you take it to mean they think we don't need to sign anyone, which no-one suggested. But with you it doesn't seem to matter what people actually said does it.

 

Sorry, must have missed the site rule that says you must post something positive everytime you've complained X number of times.

 

The chicken balti pies are nice...

 

Why dont you quit with your foul whining of the past few days ? You're becoming obsessed. And I question your self-awareness if you think I am attacking anyone.

Edited 5 August, 2010 by alpine_saint

[RinNY]

believe me; I am not a scandal-monger nor ..after my 50 years as a fan ..do I consider myself a negative person. I'm pleased with the defensive signings - even if we have to wait 3 months to see Richardson..but I am concerned about the "missing link " in our front line.

 

Without Ricky Lambert we would have had a very ordinary-looking mid table side last season, and even the positive addition of Lee Barnard helped.. though I note he was subbed. in almost every game he started. Adam Lallana's injury is disturbing, especially in view of his lack of pre-season. No-one seems to be able to give a return date, and he won't be fit for 90 minute games - even then.

David Connolly is without doubt a class act - even when he wasn't 100% fit, but injuries cost him his Prem. career and we can only hope he's got over that. If any of these is Unavailable we have little or no cover up front. Without Papa Waigo and /or Antonio..we look very thin on the ground.

 

If would be good to think we got another 30+ season fron ricky, but ..there are too many "buts" for my liking and I think we need another established striker to balance out the strike force. Am I alone with that thought ..or ?

 

I'm not sure how you can ask if you are alone in this assessment, when Pardew has stated his clear aim, all summer, to sign at least one more striker to compete with/back up Lambert! We might want to recall, before getting too impatient, that the transfer window still has weeks to run, that Lambert played the first match of last season for Bristol Rovers, that Waigo and Antonio didn't come to us in July! In other words: don't worry, this is a matter that is being worked on, as Pardew has repeatedly reiterated. A new striker will be signed.

 

That said, quite a bit has to go wrong before we will be in trouble in this department as things stand: Lambert (30+ goals last season) would have to suffer serious injury; Barnard (just under 30 goals last season) would have to suffer serious injury; Connolly (a class striker at this level) would have to suffer a recurrence of his injury problems; and Lallanw (20 goals last season) would have to fail to overcome his knee problem. Could all those things happen? Well, yes. Is it likely at all? NO. So chances are, we'll be fine even as we are, though an additional striker will obviously provide extra security in the event of a couple of those eventualities arising.

[The Kraken]

No you are far from alone, but expressing the thought gets you attacked on here.

 

That's a complete manipulation of the truth. Again.

[JibMcdo]

We are three or four players short but there is no need to panic and no need to express a disappointment until the deadline has passed and we know who we have signed.

[Dark Munster]

How does our squad compare to Leicester's when they walked this league?

[SaintNeil90]

We are three or four players short but there is no need to panic and no need to express a disappointment until the deadline has passed and we know who we have signed.

 

... or havent.

[Dig Dig]

We have three excellent strikers at this level....most sides are lucky to have one. I don't think another out and out striker is as important as decent CM cover and more pace from midfield.

[westofshannonsaint]

That said, quite a bit has to go wrong before we will be in trouble in this department as things stand: Lambert (30+ goals last season) would have to suffer serious injury; Barnard (just under 30 goals last season) would have to suffer serious injury; Connolly (a class striker at this level) would have to suffer a recurrence of his injury problems; and Lallanw (20 goals last season) would have to fail to overcome his knee problem. Could all those things happen? Well, yes. Is it likely at all? NO. So chances are, we'll be fine even as we are, though an additional striker will obviously provide extra security in the event of a couple of those eventualities arising.

 

and even if the above happens, we still have the loan market to exploit. Last seasons Loanees done quite well, this year there could be even better quality players available & now that we have got the bloat out of the squad we should have more cash available to contribute towards a players wages. when does the loan window open/close?

 

IMHO the trend so far has to be sign better players than are currently here, proven players that were in last years team of the year or played at a higher level and quality for the academy.

 

Everyone, including AP & NC knows that there is room to improve & expectations to be met. patience is a virtue/quality over quantity. We (on the pitch) have vastly improved over the last 12 months & if the same rate of improvement continues we will be talking about a squad fighting for a championship playoff place next year.

oh &

Can people please cut out the OT rubbish on this sensible thread... there was no need for anyone to respond to alpines OT post, even if the topic is being repeated.

[david in sweden]

I'm not sure how you can ask if you are alone in this assessment, when Pardew has stated his clear aim, all summer, to sign at least one more striker to compete with/back up Lambert! We might want to recall, before getting too impatient, that the transfer window still has weeks to run, that Lambert played the first match of last season for Bristol Rovers, that Waigo and Antonio didn't come to us in July! In other words: don't worry, this is a matter that is being worked on, as Pardew has repeatedly reiterated. A new striker will be signed.

 

That said, quite a bit has to go wrong before we will be in trouble in this department as things stand: Lambert (30+ goals last season) would have to suffer serious injury; Barnard (just under 30 goals last season) would have to suffer serious injury; Connolly (a class striker at this level) would have to suffer a recurrence of his injury problems; and Lallanw (20 goals last season) would have to fail to overcome his knee problem. Could all those things happen? Well, yes. Is it likely at all? NO. So chances are, we'll be fine even as we are, though an additional striker will obviously provide extra security in the event of a couple of those eventualities arising.

 

I don't argue with any of the points you've made but the fact remains TWO of our four recognised strikers are "injured " and were not fit enough to have a full pre-season, which leaves us with Academy lads on the bench as sub.strikers.

Football injuries by their very nature do not automatically heal and return to 100%. We had two good alternative with both Papa Waigo and Antonio and no-one can argue that their contributions weren't valuable, and in fact played much more than many people think. As I mentioned Barnard was subbed in a large proportion of his games last season. Call them strikers or attacking midfielders

or what you will, but they both scored more than any of our " regular " mf players last season.

 

YES ..there is still a month, and there are good players out there but they are getting fewer, and we know from last season that the chance of getting a good player..like Connolly ..is negated by the fact that they may have been ; Injured/not playing regularly/not having had a proper pre-season...or (most often) are grossly over-rated in the first place.

 

AP obviously felt Tyson was a major target, but that didn't work and I'm sure AP has a list of alternative names, but the best ones were surely at the TOP of his wish list...and not 3rd..or 4th.

I'd have been happier if we'd made more effort to keep Antonio and /or Papa Waigo --or both !

 

However, I am not anti -Pardew, on the contrary..and if he pulls off a "coup" and signs a Ex-Prem striker next week, I'll be as pleased as the rest of you ..but I 'm only expressing my genuine concern at the current situation with two " unfit strikers " out of four.

Edited 6 August, 2010 by david in sweden

[modern matron]

Yes you are right. If Rickie gets injured or loses form, we have no cover for him ie as a centre forward leading the line. Even if he is fit he might need a rest. AP seems to agree so so I expect someone in by the end of the month. Possibly a loan signing. If you add Connelly's injury record to the equation it's obvious really....

[JibMcdo]

We are three or four players short but there is no need to panic and no need to express a disappointment until the deadline has passed and we know who we have signed.

 

... or havent.

 

Well, duh...

[sadoldgit]

I don't argue with any of the points you've made but the fact remains TWO of our four recognised strikers are "injured " and were not fit enough to have a full pre-season, which leaves us with Academy lads on the bench as sub.strikers.

Football injuries by their very nature do not automatically heal and return to 100%. We had two good alternative with both Papa Waigo and Antonio and no-one can argue that their contributions weren't valuable, and in fact played much more than many people think. As I mentioned Barnard was subbed in a large proportion of his games last season. Call them strikers or attacking midfielders

or what you will, but they both scored more than any of our " regular " mf players last season.

 

YES ..there is still a month, and there are good players out there but they are getting fewer, and we know from last season that the chance of getting a good player..like Connolly ..is negated by the fact that they may have been ; Injured/not playing regularly/not having had a proper pre-season...or (most often) are grossly over-rated in the first place.

 

AP obviously felt Tyson was a major target, but that didn't work and I'm sure AP has a list of alternative names, but the best ones were surely at the TOP of his wish list...and not 3rd..or 4th.

I'd have been happier if we'd made more effort to keep Antonio and /or Papa Waigo --or both !

 

However, I am not anti -Pardew, on the contrary..and if he pulls off a "coup" and signs a Ex-Prem striker next week, I'll be as pleased as the rest of you ..but I 'm only expressing my genuine concern at the current situation with two " unfit strikers " out of four.

 

How do you know what kind of effort we made to keep those players David? But if their clubs call them back after their loan periods are up there is nothing we can do.

[JustMike]

No you are far from alone, but expressing the thought gets you attacked on here.

 

 

no, expressing your thoughts doesnt get you attacked on here, its the manner in which you express them, and how often ;-)

[Minsk]

I thin the biggest problem with our forward line at the moment is which one of Rickie, Barnard or Connolly is going to be peed off at being left on the bench tomorrow. We have 3 very good forwards for this league, of which we only play with 2 (or sometimes 1).

 

Of course I would like to see another 'big guy' come in as cover for Rickie and I honestly do believe that will happen, but maybe only as a loanee.

 

Don't panick - there are still 3 weeks left of the transfer window; and then the loan window opens up. I am 100% confident that if one of the 3 picks up any serious injury we would bring someone else in.

[david in sweden]

I'm not panicking, but my initial thoughts back in May were that we had to have cover for the strikers in the event of ...whatever

and that losing the two " loan players " mentioned, we had no established strikers available. Most of Barnards games last season were only 60-70 mins. long (though I put this down to hard effort rather than poor form).

Without Lambert we have a very pale-looking strike force. Admitedly Lallana got to 20 goals but as he is injured, and hasn't had a pre-season it's likely to be some months before we see a fully-fit and on-form player.

Lamberts injury (even if slight) is worrying, and he hasn't had a full pre-season either. We are down to two very respecatble strikers

(though Connolly's injury history is worrying) and no solid replacement ..if any of them breaks down.

 

I would have liked to have seen Antonio and Papa Waigo stay (in lieu of a better class signing)..

but without them we have no " change sub." with any quality / goal scoring history.

[RinNY]

I don't argue with any of the points you've made but the fact remains TWO of our four recognised strikers are "injured " and were not fit enough to have a full pre-season, which leaves us with Academy lads on the bench as sub.strikers.

Football injuries by their very nature do not automatically heal and return to 100%. We had two good alternative with both Papa Waigo and Antonio and no-one can argue that their contributions weren't valuable, and in fact played much more than many people think. As I mentioned Barnard was subbed in a large proportion of his games last season. Call them strikers or attacking midfielders

or what you will, but they both scored more than any of our " regular " mf players last season.

 

YES ..there is still a month, and there are good players out there but they are getting fewer, and we know from last season that the chance of getting a good player..like Connolly ..is negated by the fact that they may have been ; Injured/not playing regularly/not having had a proper pre-season...or (most often) are grossly over-rated in the first place.

 

AP obviously felt Tyson was a major target, but that didn't work and I'm sure AP has a list of alternative names, but the best ones were surely at the TOP of his wish list...and not 3rd..or 4th.

I'd have been happier if we'd made more effort to keep Antonio and /or Papa Waigo --or both !

 

However, I am not anti -Pardew, on the contrary..and if he pulls off a "coup" and signs a Ex-Prem striker next week, I'll be as pleased as the rest of you ..but I 'm only expressing my genuine concern at the current situation with two " unfit strikers " out of four.

 

The thing is, and here's my reading of Pardew's remark that he doesn't want to move too soon because better players may become available later: over the next week or two, the Prem teams are going to have to settle their squads of 25 players. As they do, that means that some marginal players (for the Prem) are going to be left out, and become available for transfers or loans. In addition, as teams decide their squads, the younger fringe players will also start to be made available for loans. Since we have 3 top strikers at this level already, bringing in a big name is unlikely: how would such a player fit in? Behind Lambert? Bumping Lambert to the bench? Not going to happen.

 

My guess is that Pardew is looking at younger guys who can come here and learn behind Lambert, starting a few games as necessary but mostly coming in off the bench. I bet we'll be happy enough come September. The squad numbers indicate clearly enough that up to four new signings are still anticipated, to fill numbers 8, 11, 13, and 25 ...

[ribbo]

It seems Rickie is probably going to be out for tomorrow's match v Plymouth, but he's hoping to be back for Bournemouth on Tuesday. 7 minutes ago via web

 

from the guy who is interviewing him from 442 http://twitter.com/JamesMawFFT

[buctootim]

My guess is that Pardew is looking at younger guys who can come here and learn behind Lambert, starting a few games as necessary but mostly coming in off the bench. I bet we'll be happy enough come September. The squad numbers indicate clearly enough that up to four new signings are still anticipated, to fill numbers 8, 11, 13, and 25 ...

 

My guess too. He'll be looking at a 20 year old with potential to develop imo.

[SaintDonkey]

Didn't we sign Rickie on the Monday and then he wnet straight into the team on the Tuesday?

 

It was announced the Monday morning but with the current "announce things after the Echo's print deadline" I wouldn't be to surprised were we to pull the same trick...

[VectisSaint]

believe me; I am not a scandal-monger nor ..after my 50 years as a fan ..do I consider myself a negative person. I'm pleased with the defensive signings - even if we have to wait 3 months to see Richardson..but I am concerned about the "missing link " in our front line.

 

Without Ricky Lambert we would have had a very ordinary-looking mid table side last season, and even the positive addition of Lee Barnard helped.. though I note he was subbed. in almost every game he started. Adam Lallana's injury is disturbing, especially in view of his lack of pre-season. No-one seems to be able to give a return date, and he won't be fit for 90 minute games - even then.

David Connolly is without doubt a class act - even when he wasn't 100% fit, but injuries cost him his Prem. career and we can only hope he's got over that. If any of these is Unavailable we have little or no cover up front. Without Papa Waigo and /or Antonio..we look very thin on the ground.

 

If would be good to think we got another 30+ season fron ricky, but ..there are too many "buts" for my liking and I think we need another established striker to balance out the strike force. Am I alone with that thought ..or ?

Don't think many will argue that we need another striker in the same mould as Rickie as back up. Most people have been saying this for weeks. Our #4 striker is Ryan Doble !!! Only other option seems to be Butterfield. AP acknowledges this as well, I'm sure he is working hard to bring someone else in over the next 2-3 weeks.

Think its a bit unkind to refer to RL as the missing link though :-)

[The9]

If we have a load of injuries we'll lose some games we wouldn't with a first choice team. Same for everyone. The difference is that we've got the kind of strength in depth most of the teams in this division would kill for as well, so we shouldn't be affected as much.

 

Regarding Connolly and Barnard, Barnard looked incredibly fit and sharp against Reading and didn't seem to be tiring when he was "saved". Connolly you can't expect to be fit all the time with slower recovery, and we were lucky to have Lambert fit all season last year, and it probably won't happen again. Lallana can play up top if needed, and Ryan Doble has impressed me the couple of times I've seen him, though I think he's better suited to a creator role.

 

But it beats Euell, McGoldrick and Paterson.