A few rumours

Big Bad Bob · 2 August, 2010

I'll be interested to see if Papa Waigo's potential return is another season loan, or an actual transfer

We need the different options he brings

I think you might find it's neither option. Apparently his agent was on Italian TV saying that they've had a few enquiries but he want's to stay at the Viola (Papa that is, not his agent!!)

Frank's cousin · 2 August, 2010

What I find so frustrating is some of the language used on here to describe opinion - I simply dont understand how some of you can make this so personal - and y that I mean your opinins on AP, Cortese etc... simply because you disagree with their APPROACH, or in most case your interpretation of rumour and gossip about their approach. There is plenty of room for debating what we believe MIGHT be going on, and in general that is what these forums are all about, but it does seem at times that we almost seem to WANT there to be bad things and signs, if only for some to justify their personal views.

We hads the same with Lowe - he became for soem the symbol of what was wrong with (in their opinion) football, and despite took everything he did or said as some sort of personal attack on them... ITS NOT FFS.

For 99.999% of us, we will only ever be able to form opinion on folks character by what limited information is released - I will never meet Cortese, so I have no deep knowledge of his agenda, plans, approach, personality etc, just what we see is delivered and any communication he choses to release. From what i have read in the small number of interviews he has given, he's ambitious, pragmatic and driven, with high expectations of those who work for and around him. If you dont measure up, your learning curve may be very short to avoid the axe, but ultimately he will be judged on the results - 'its a results driven business afterall'

Why does it really matter what kind of relationship he has with staff or AP? To keep us happy? I look at this way - would we be happy if we knew 100% that they were best pals and everything at the club, all the staff etc were best mates, and so what if we stay mid table and play narrow and direct?

Or would we prefer to have leadership that wanted success, wanted it quickly in line with the investment and spend and appropriate to the size of our club, set very high targets and expectations of all employees so that this could be achieved, but it meant there was every now and again a bit of friction, that is leaked?

I know what I would prefer.

We were rescured at the death - no one knows what the long term will bring in say 5-10 years, same with most clubs, but what we can say for sure is we were rescued - and for me that means we should be pragmatic about what the new owener and his emploees feel is the best way tho achieve that success - even if it goes against what we believe to be our principles on football club culture and buisness approaches... why? Because we have tried the other approaches and it did not work.

I would rather work for someone I disliked but respected, than someone who was a great bloke but who I could not. With NC, I would say, none of us know him at all to form an opinion on his personality, but to date he is getting on with the job his way, and like it or not, i have to respect that.

once_bitterne · 2 August, 2010

I'll be glad when the football starts again. This Summer has been bizarre! We are in the best shape we have been in for years, have the best manager in the League (a PL level manager in L1 FFS), a squad that EVERY manager in the league would swap their for in a heartbeat, for the first time in recent times have NOT had to sell our best player(s) during the off-season and have no financial worries at all.

However, there is just the same amount of in-fighting, gloom and despondancy as when we were on the verges of going out of existance. I guess it's just a behaviour pattern some fans have been conditioned to for so long it now comes as second nature.

Also, I guess fans who are interested in the football side of supporting the club tend to post less over the Summer as there aren't any actual games but those 'Social' Fans who have little interest in football but like the getting drunk with their mates side to supporting the club tend to post about topics that are far more important to them than football, like 'communication'.

iansums · 2 August, 2010

What I find so frustrating is some of the language used on here to describe opinion - I simply dont understand how some of you can make this so personal - and y that I mean your opinins on AP, Cortese etc... simply because you disagree with their APPROACH, or in most case your interpretation of rumour and gossip about their approach. There is plenty of room for debating what we believe MIGHT be going on, and in general that is what these forums are all about, but it does seem at times that we almost seem to WANT there to be bad things and signs, if only for some to justify their personal views.

We hads the same with Lowe - he became for soem the symbol of what was wrong with (in their opinion) football, and despite took everything he did or said as some sort of personal attack on them... ITS NOT FFS.

For 99.999% of us, we will only ever be able to form opinion on folks character by what limited information is released - I will never meet Cortese, so I have no deep knowledge of his agenda, plans, approach, personality etc, just what we see is delivered and any communication he choses to release. From what i have read in the small number of interviews he has given, he's ambitious, pragmatic and driven, with high expectations of those who work for and around him. If you dont measure up, your learning curve may be very short to avoid the axe, but ultimately he will be judged on the results - 'its a results driven business afterall'

Why does it really matter what kind of relationship he has with staff or AP? To keep us happy? I look at this way - would we be happy if we knew 100% that they were best pals and everything at the club, all the staff etc were best mates, and so what if we stay mid table and play narrow and direct?

Or would we prefer to have leadership that wanted success, wanted it quickly in line with the investment and spend and appropriate to the size of our club, set very high targets and expectations of all employees so that this could be achieved, but it meant there was every now and again a bit of friction, that is leaked?

I know what I would prefer.

We were rescured at the death - no one knows what the long term will bring in say 5-10 years, same with most clubs, but what we can say for sure is we were rescued - and for me that means we should be pragmatic about what the new owener and his emploees feel is the best way tho achieve that success - even if it goes against what we believe to be our principles on football club culture and buisness approaches... why? Because we have tried the other approaches and it did not work.

I would rather work for someone I disliked but respected, than someone who was a great bloke but who I could not. With NC, I would say, none of us know him at all to form an opinion on his personality, but to date he is getting on with the job his way, and like it or not, i have to respect that.

Excellent post.

derry · 2 August, 2010

What I find so frustrating is some of the language used on here to describe opinion - I simply dont understand how some of you can make this so personal - and y that I mean your opinins on AP, Cortese etc... simply because you disagree with their APPROACH, or in most case your interpretation of rumour and gossip about their approach. There is plenty of room for debating what we believe MIGHT be going on, and in general that is what these forums are all about, but it does seem at times that we almost seem to WANT there to be bad things and signs, if only for some to justify their personal views.

We hads the same with Lowe - he became for soem the symbol of what was wrong with (in their opinion) football, and despite took everything he did or said as some sort of personal attack on them... ITS NOT FFS.

For 99.999% of us, we will only ever be able to form opinion on folks character by what limited information is released - I will never meet Cortese, so I have no deep knowledge of his agenda, plans, approach, personality etc, just what we see is delivered and any communication he choses to release. From what i have read in the small number of interviews he has given, he's ambitious, pragmatic and driven, with high expectations of those who work for and around him. If you dont measure up, your learning curve may be very short to avoid the axe, but ultimately he will be judged on the results - 'its a results driven business afterall'

Why does it really matter what kind of relationship he has with staff or AP? To keep us happy? I look at this way - would we be happy if we knew 100% that they were best pals and everything at the club, all the staff etc were best mates, and so what if we stay mid table and play narrow and direct?

Or would we prefer to have leadership that wanted success, wanted it quickly in line with the investment and spend and appropriate to the size of our club, set very high targets and expectations of all employees so that this could be achieved, but it meant there was every now and again a bit of friction, that is leaked?

I know what I would prefer.

We were rescured at the death - no one knows what the long term will bring in say 5-10 years, same with most clubs, but what we can say for sure is we were rescued - and for me that means we should be pragmatic about what the new owener and his emploees feel is the best way tho achieve that success - even if it goes against what we believe to be our principles on football club culture and buisness approaches... why? Because we have tried the other approaches and it did not work.

I would rather work for someone I disliked but respected, than someone who was a great bloke but who I could not. With NC, I would say, none of us know him at all to form an opinion on his personality, but to date he is getting on with the job his way, and like it or not, i have to respect that.

Pretty good summing up Frank.

alpine_saint · 2 August, 2010

What I find so frustrating is some of the language used on here to describe opinion - I simply dont understand how some of you can make this so personal - and y that I mean your opinins on AP, Cortese etc... simply because you disagree with their APPROACH, or in most case your interpretation of rumour and gossip about their approach. There is plenty of room for debating what we believe MIGHT be going on, and in general that is what these forums are all about, but it does seem at times that we almost seem to WANT there to be bad things and signs, if only for some to justify their personal views.

We hads the same with Lowe - he became for soem the symbol of what was wrong with (in their opinion) football, and despite took everything he did or said as some sort of personal attack on them... ITS NOT FFS.

For 99.999% of us, we will only ever be able to form opinion on folks character by what limited information is released - I will never meet Cortese, so I have no deep knowledge of his agenda, plans, approach, personality etc, just what we see is delivered and any communication he choses to release. From what i have read in the small number of interviews he has given, he's ambitious, pragmatic and driven, with high expectations of those who work for and around him. If you dont measure up, your learning curve may be very short to avoid the axe, but ultimately he will be judged on the results - 'its a results driven business afterall'

Why does it really matter what kind of relationship he has with staff or AP? To keep us happy? I look at this way - would we be happy if we knew 100% that they were best pals and everything at the club, all the staff etc were best mates, and so what if we stay mid table and play narrow and direct?

Or would we prefer to have leadership that wanted success, wanted it quickly in line with the investment and spend and appropriate to the size of our club, set very high targets and expectations of all employees so that this could be achieved, but it meant there was every now and again a bit of friction, that is leaked?

I know what I would prefer.

We were rescured at the death - no one knows what the long term will bring in say 5-10 years, same with most clubs, but what we can say for sure is we were rescued - and for me that means we should be pragmatic about what the new owener and his emploees feel is the best way tho achieve that success - even if it goes against what we believe to be our principles on football club culture and buisness approaches... why? Because we have tried the other approaches and it did not work.

I would rather work for someone I disliked but respected, than someone who was a great bloke but who I could not. With NC, I would say, none of us know him at all to form an opinion on his personality, but to date he is getting on with the job his way, and like it or not, i have to respect that.

A good post.

The personal abuse NC is starting to attract is disgusting.

In my opinion a few of us are questioning APs approach, but I am yet to read personal abuse of him on here.

hypochondriac · 2 August, 2010

A good post.

The personal abuse NC is starting to attract is disgusting.

In my opinion a few of us are questioning APs approach, but I am yet to read personal abuse of him on here.

What personal abuse? Mostly I see people seriously questioning his approach.

SaintRichmond · 2 August, 2010

As if I care Duncan, I have a thick skin. If he stays, it will be on Cortese's terms, I personally hate some of the crappy long ball stuff we default to at times, if we do develop a passing style under Pardew I will be delighted. If we don't it won't matter because it will mean another manager is. I just think Cortese has it right. His autocratic thin skin may be a bit hard to handle but I do know from somebody who has worked closely with him that he does look after people he values.

IMHO, Playing "pretty pretty" Football in Div 1 does not work, but (unfortunately), Route 1 does, and will get us out of this League

In the CCC, we can then start to play Football again

(The higher the League, the better Quality Football ..... (usually) )

hypochondriac · 2 August, 2010

IMHO, Playing "pretty pretty" Football in Div 1 does not work, but (unfortunately), Route 1 does, and will get us out of this League

In the CCC, we can then start to play Football again

(The higher the League, the better Quality Football ..... (usually) )

IMO the quality of football last season was of a higher quality than most of the football I saw in the CCC.

alpine_saint · 2 August, 2010

What personal abuse? Mostly I see people seriously questioning his approach.

Well, for a start he has been compared to Mussolini, Hitler and Lowe.

John B · 2 August, 2010

A good post.

The personal abuse NC is starting to attract is disgusting.

In my opinion a few of us are questioning APs approach, but I am yet to read personal abuse of him on here.

What abuse surely you get more abuse than Cortese

hypochondriac · 2 August, 2010

Well, for a start he has been compared to Mussolini, Hitler and Lowe.

Pretty sure his style was. Extreme yes but I get the point.

Give it to Ron · 2 August, 2010

IMO the quality of football last season was of a higher quality than most of the football I saw in the CCC.

Totally agree....saw far better football last season from sides than in the relegation year. Championship teams seem to play with fear of not reaching the Prem

or dropping to League 1.

I guess the revenue is not such a drop from League 1 to 2 as it is in the other divisions.

SaintRichmond · 2 August, 2010

IMO the quality of football last season was of a higher quality than most of the football I saw in the CCC.

Yes I forgot ..... Oldham for example was an Epic, they must have sold millions of videos of that one

Give it to Ron · 2 August, 2010

Yes I forgot ..... Oldham for example was an Epic, they must have sold millions of videos of that one

Yep and getting stuffed 4-1 by Palace was very entertaining.

hypochondriac · 2 August, 2010

Yes I forgot ..... Oldham for example was an Epic, they must have sold millions of videos of that one

Clearly I wasn't talking about isolated games, I was talking about the season in general. Forest at home 2 seasons ago would be a perfect point to explain how awful championship football can be if I were going down that route.

derry · 2 August, 2010

But we played good football last year and came third despite a rubbish start with no team.

The sooner you start playing good football, the better the long term will be. Maybe you can go up quicker with route one, I'm not convinced that's true but maybe. However, I think with each promotion, you stand a far better chance at a higher level if you know how to play decent football.

I'm so sick of negative football and route 1. Not from Saints, but generally in football. So many times, in fact, the majority of games at all levels, one team is trying to frustrate the other. It wasn't like that when I started watching, or even 10 years after that. What happened to two teams playing football? Even if the bloody world cup final, where surely the players believe in their abilities, we had one team sitting back and kicking lumps out of the other to try and win. Yes we all want to try and win, but there should be some acceptance of why it became the popular sport it did, it's entertainment, excitement, passion, not boring and fighting your way to the top.

Does it for me.

Dalek2003 · 2 August, 2010

Sadly it's the posters who have something decent to say who seem to be put off coming on here, leaving the ones making it an unpleasant place to discuss saints to carry on. I hope people will accept that there is an element of summer boredom making certain posters worse than normal though and perhaps the forum will rturn to bearable status before too long. The idiots on here are simply more vocal, I don't think they're anywhere near a majority. Mostly I've read posts from people looking to talk about saints with a degree with intelligence and respect for other fans over the years, not just the posters who seem to want to be forum celebrities for some reason.

Although putting me off more right now is the damn lag time for typing on here!!

Agree totally. The amount of abuse i have had over my very legitimate argument that the club was derailed due to the failure to appoint Hoddle in 2004 is a classic example. As you note, these are probably the very same idiots who were against Hoddle returning.

I keep myself going in the sure knowledge that the quieter majority take a more reasonable view over issues.

shurlock · 2 August, 2010

IMO the quality of football last season was of a higher quality than most of the football I saw in the CCC.

You must be joking - the football in L1 is dreadful compared to the championship. I'm looking forward to the CCC simply because games are evenly matched, the ball stays in play longer and teams will stretch you with pace. Ipswich who are no means the best team in the CCC showed the gulf in quality in the cup game. L1 is slow, scrappy and bogged down in the middle by comparison.

hypochondriac · 2 August, 2010

You must be joking - the football in L1 is dreadful compared to the championship. I'm looking forward to the CCC simply because games are evenly matched, the ball stays in play longer and teams will stretch you with pace. Ipswich who are no means the best team in the CCC showed the gulf in quality in the cup game. L1 is slow, scrappy and bogged down in the middle by comparison.

All about opinions I suppose. I just know the football I watched was of a better quality last season than the season before. That's from both teams.

hypochondriac · 2 August, 2010

Agree totally. The amount of abuse i have had over my very legitimate argument that the club was derailed due to the failure to appoint Hoddle in 2004 is a classic example. As you note, these are probably the very same idiots who were against Hoddle returning.

I keep myself going in the sure knowledge that the quieter majority take a more reasonable view over issues.

Do give it a rest you tiresome individual.

ralph_wiggum · 2 August, 2010

whats all this got to do with Waigo coming back?

Dalek2003 · 2 August, 2010

Do give it a rest you tiresome individual.

Your reply proves my point exactly.

Ponty · 2 August, 2010

I'd like to take the opportunity to remind everyone to check out the first and last posts of this classic thread before they accept that everything negative written about Cortese is true.

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?24212-Daily-Echo-still-banned

hypochondriac · 2 August, 2010

Your reply proves my point exactly.

Lol. I genuinely think you need some help (if you are being serious that is.)

hypochondriac · 2 August, 2010

I'd like to take the opportunity to remind everyone to check out the first and last posts of this classic thread before they accept that everything negative written about Cortese is true.

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?24212-Daily-Echo-still-banned

Although the first post does say "seems". Someone found out the truth and the thread was locked. Looked like the forum was working well.

Clifford Nelson · 2 August, 2010

I have very nearly stopped posting, because there seemed to be no point to it unless I threw myself into the hurly burly of insults. A reasoned point of view didn't seem to attract any interest anymore. So it is encouraging to see a string of posts harbouring similar sentiments. There must be hope then.

I am especially irritated with what appears to be a large number of posters who can't abide any critical comments towards anything. To me it seems little point to post that I have had a reasonably pleasent day and that everything is adequate or a little bit better than that. Debate follows suggestions that things could be done better, not that everything is great, so why try to stifle debate?

Maybe it's strange that I'm not quite as irritated by the rather over the top comments by others who tend to get a bit over excited. Poor old Alps, for instance, his view are often quite interesting, but they are difficult to debate with him because you can't get through the wall of vitriol from those who want to shut him up.

Thedelldays · 2 August, 2010

Although the first post does say "seems". Someone found out the truth and the thread was locked. Looked like the forum was working well.

yes..see what you mean about the speculation....lol

people had been speculating on whether they would be banned or not, now we have an answer, they have

Fitzhugh Fella · 2 August, 2010

As if I care Duncan, I have a thick skin. If he stays, it will be on Cortese's terms, I personally hate some of the crappy long ball stuff we default to at times, if we do develop a passing style under Pardew I will be delighted. If we don't it won't matter because it will mean another manager is. I just think Cortese has it right. His autocratic thin skin may be a bit hard to handle but I do know from somebody who has worked closely with him that he does look after people he values.

Well, that character reference you have given him has cheered me up D.

EastleighSoulBoy · 2 August, 2010

Do give it a rest you tiresome individual.

Your reply proves my point exactly.

Oh dear! I presume that the following, in bold itallics, was an excellent example of literary genius?

Agree totally. The amount of abuse i have had over my very legitimate argument that the club was derailed due to the failure to appoint Hoddle in 2004 is a classic example. As you note, these are probably the very same idiots who were against Hoddle returning.

I keep myself going in the sure knowledge that the quieter majority take a more reasonable view over issues.

hypochondriac · 2 August, 2010

yes..see what you mean about the speculation....lol

I agree with you, I don't think someone should make a statement saying they had been banned when no one was sure either way. It should have been speculation. Well done to Steve who got the definitive answer. Unfortunatel, where SFC is concerned it is often difficult to get these answers and so speculation will continue.

Thedelldays · 2 August, 2010

I agree with you, I don't think someone should make a statement saying they had been banned when no one was sure either way. It should have been speculation. Well done to Steve who got the definitive answer. Unfortunatel, where SFC is concerned it is often difficult to get these answers and so speculation will continue.

echo were not banned...nothing has changed..yet the usual has happened and people claim something that is not true..?

why..?

sadoldgit · 2 August, 2010

Having just read Frank C's post I don't disagree that the CEO has to be liked, he just hs to do his job well. At the end of the day that is how Cortese's reign should be judged. I think what worries some of us is that he is showing signs of not being very good with people, PR and the way he handes his relationship with the club manager. The latter is what concerns me the most. Ok, we didn't make the play offs last season, but there were good reasons for that and there is no point in going over that ground again. We made good progress and actually won something. We should go into this season bouyed by the progress we have made but instead you sense that things are not quite right at the management level and that can only be down to the CEO and the way that he sees fit to handle things. I hope I am wrong, but if there are still problems between the CEO and manager that is not going to help our quest for promotion.

hypochondriac · 2 August, 2010

echo were not banned...nothing has changed..yet the usual has happened and people claim something that is not true..?
why..?

Only Stu claimed that as far as I could see. I commented a couple of times on the speculation that the Echo had been banned.

View From The Top · 2 August, 2010

IMO the quality of football last season was of a higher quality than most of the football I saw in the CCC.

At times some of the football we played last season was stunning and at other times we were dragged down to the opponents level and at others we were simply rubbish.

Unlike some I don't think we can get out of L1 playing two out and out wingers and adopting the Spanish "tic-tac" style but I, like the majority want us playing football to feet as much as possible but the big ball to RL has its place.

Barry the Badger · 2 August, 2010

What's that? DaveBensonPhillips in "being wrong" shocker? I simply refuse to believe that he would have failed to "do the research" before posting something.

sadoldgit · 2 August, 2010

As if I care Duncan, I have a thick skin. If he stays, it will be on Cortese's terms, I personally hate some of the crappy long ball stuff we default to at times, if we do develop a passing style under Pardew I will be delighted. If we don't it won't matter because it will mean another manager is. I just think Cortese has it right. His autocratic thin skin may be a bit hard to handle but I do know from somebody who has worked closely with him that he does look after people he values.

That may be so Derry but I have spoken with somone whose son works at SFC and I can only assume that he doesn't value many of the staff who work for him.

hypochondriac · 2 August, 2010

I think Stu would be the first to admit he is sometimes too oppinionated for his own good. He makes bold predictions which sometimes blow up in his face and make him look foolish. He does however make a lot of valid points (even if he does put some of them accross too forcefully on ocassion.) I think if everyone (including Stu) followed the rule of the previous incarnation of the forum: "play the ball not the man" then things would be a lot better and posters may concede that many of Stu's concerns are legitimate.

John B · 2 August, 2010

Having just read Frank C's post I don't disagree that the CEO has to be liked, he just hs to do his job well. At the end of the day that is how Cortese's reign should be judged. I think what worries some of us is that he is showing signs of not being very good with people, PR and the way he handes his relationship with the club manager. The latter is what concerns me the most. Ok, we didn't make the play offs last season, but there were good reasons for that and there is no point in going over that ground again. We made good progress and actually won something. We should go into this season bouyed by the progress we have made but instead you sense that things are not quite right at the management level and that can only be down to the CEO and the way that he sees fit to handle things. I hope I am wrong, but if there are still problems between the CEO and manager that is not going to help our quest for promotion.

Lots of people including myself dont like change unless I know why

Cortese is probably doing a good job but it would be better if the reasons for controversial decisions like the Ted Bates Match and Installments

Was explained

The situation then with Illingsworth may then not have arisen

Cortese is in charge and if Pardew does not like what is being said then he needs to consider his options but who knows he may be quite happy and the season is going to be a great success

trousers · 2 August, 2010

Although the first post does say "seems"

I suspect people were more refering to the thread title (which is more impactful) than part of the opening prose

hypochondriac · 2 August, 2010

Lots of people including myself dont like change unless I know why

Cortese is probably doing a good job but it would be better if the reasons for controversial decisions like the Ted Bates Match and Installments

Was explained

The situation then with Illingsworth may then not have arisen

Cortese is in charge and if Pardew does not like what is being said then he needs to consider his options but who knows he may be quite happy and the season is going to be a great success

You talk a lot of sense John B.

derry · 2 August, 2010

As if I care Duncan, I have a thick skin. If he stays, it will be on Cortese's terms, I personally hate some of the crappy long ball stuff we default to at times, if we do develop a passing style under Pardew I will be delighted. If we don't it won't matter because it will mean another manager is. I just think Cortese has it right. His autocratic thin skin may be a bit hard to handle but I do know from somebody who has worked closely with him that he does look after people he values.

That may be so Derry but I have spoken with somone whose son works at SFC and I can only assume that he doesn't value many of the staff who work for him.

I will say that my insight came from both the person involved and their parents on separate occasions relating several unsolicited initiatives and promotion by Cortese as a result of the person working closely with Cortese. I felt that Cortese certainly valued the person and knew how to demonstrate to the person that value. I would also say that the confidentiality of the person concerned who certainly knows a lot about the workings of the club is absolute. Not a word is spoken about anything to do with the club. The only general comment about Cortese that we knew already, he doesn't suffer fools and sets high standards.

derry · 2 August, 2010

I have very nearly stopped posting, because there seemed to be no point to it unless I threw myself into the hurly burly of insults. A reasoned point of view didn't seem to attract any interest anymore. So it is encouraging to see a string of posts harbouring similar sentiments. There must be hope then.

I am especially irritated with what appears to be a large number of posters who can't abide any critical comments towards anything. To me it seems little point to post that I have had a reasonably pleasent day and that everything is adequate or a little bit better than that. Debate follows suggestions that things could be done better, not that everything is great, so why try to stifle debate?

Maybe it's strange that I'm not quite as irritated by the rather over the top comments by others who tend to get a bit over excited. Poor old Alps, for instance, his view are often quite interesting, but they are difficult to debate with him because you can't get through the wall of vitriol from those who want to shut him up.

Interestingly Bert, Ron, Duncan, Andy and Frank have all come on today and said he same thing.

suewhistle · 2 August, 2010

Agree with the sentiment but not re: Alpine. It's just relentless posting of the same point over and over ... (SNIP)

A pretty good summary of my own view on the matter.. and as I've pointed out elsewhere the language in which the opinions are couched into which no doubt or shades of grey are ever allowed.

Roll on Saturday!;-)

The Kraken · 2 August, 2010

Agree with the sentiment but not re: Alpine. It's just relentless posting of the same point over and over and you can't debate with him because he won't listen. He attacks a point you never made and then tries to make out how 'right' he was. Debate is great, but when people are desperate to make themselves look like they were right above anything else, it becomes pointless. He states the obvious, such as we need a few more players, then takes any development as evidence of being right, when no-one disagreed in the first place. What they don't like is his sheer delight in the negative, his refusal to listen to reason and understand just why his points are lost in this grumpy pantomine whinger image he's created for himself. All too often he attacks others for childish remarks, or making silly exagerrations, then he does exactly the same. Maybe he was more bearable when he argument was something I believed in, ie. Burley being a hinderence, but the needing more players situation isn't a debate, it's like saying we need to win more games or score more goals. But it's not even the silly non-point that's annoying, it's his endless desire to say 'I told you so', which is the most childish thing of all. I just have a hell of a lot more respect for the posters who'd rather be wrong and see saints do well. Because we're all wrong sometimes, but I like to think ultimately we want the same result.

Amen to all of that, it sums it up perfectly.

WIGANSAINT · 2 August, 2010

not a chance he will be sacked if we are top.someone is pulling your ___

Red · 2 August, 2010

Interesting spin - I adore SFC, love ML, like NC and AP, but as others have commented why the BS. In this age of technology, internet, player power etc. etc. - do they really think we can be "1984'ed" (George Orwell)?

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~2108597,00.html

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/8307093.Dickson_fee_set_by_tribunal/

EastleighSoulBoy · 2 August, 2010

Interesting spin - I adore SFC, love ML, like NC and AP, but as others have commented why the BS. In this age of technology, internet, player power etc. etc. - do they really think we can be "1984'ed" (George Orwell)?

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~2108597,00.html

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/8307093.Dickson_fee_set_by_tribunal/

Exactly this, why do they do it? Is it to fool the fans or are they fooling themselves in thinking that we use nothing other than the O.S. for our information.

It's even on the Brentford site, as pointed out by Steve Grant.

CB Fry · 2 August, 2010

Interesting spin - I adore SFC, love ML, like NC and AP, but as others have commented why the BS. In this age of technology, internet, player power etc. etc. - do they really think we can be "1984'ed" (George Orwell)?

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~2108597,00.html

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/8307093.Dickson_fee_set_by_tribunal/

And that, in a nutshell, is why the echo is a billion times more reliable source of saints information than the spin doctored corporate brochure hot air guffed out of the official site.

hypochondriac · 2 August, 2010

apparently it was on our site and was then edited.

A few rumours

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