Not good enough

[Turkish]

It is however almost certain that we will have a left back at left midfield and possibly a 17 year old at right midfield and maybe Wotton in central midfield. Lallana won't start, Lambert, Schneiderlin and Puncheon may not be fit. (source- Pardew quoted in the Echo). Last year Waigo and Antonio would have played. The midfield cover is weak.

 

Being pedantic, no they would not, as neither where here for the first game of the season, neither was Lambert or Hammond. AP says he wants to sign three more players, and he still has a month to do so. When the window shuts, the squad is complete, at least until January.

[derry]

Being pedantic, no they would not, as neither where here for the first game of the season, neither was Lambert or Hammond. AP says he wants to sign three more players, and he still has a month to do so. When the window shuts, the squad is complete, at least until January.

 

The comment is refers to the squad that finished the season. One week after the transfer window closes, the loan window opens. Therefore players can be brought in

until that closes. In addition players out of contract can be signed at any time.

[Professor]

Being pedantic, no they would not, as neither where here for the first game of the season, neither was Lambert or Hammond. AP says he wants to sign three more players, and he still has a month to do so. When the window shuts, the squad is complete, at least until January.

Well, thats OK then, the manager wants 3 more players but he may not sign them until September. Thats what he did last year .... and the team didn't win a game until October. I don't expect it to be that bad this year and we all know the first chpoce 11 is stronger than last autumn, but Pardew himself says the squad is not strong enough.

Last year he had no choice but to do the best he could with late signings, and that provided a justifiable reason for finishing 7th (5th if not for the points deduction). But this year the target is not top six, it is automatic promotion, which as Leeds discovered last year is not an easy task. Fans should remind both Chairman and Manager of their expectations at every opportunity, because it was Pardew and Corteses who set the target for themselves.

If we win on Saturday, I'll come away over the proverbial moon, but I wish I had more confidence.

[Legod Third Coming]

Of course players become available. At any time a players circumstances can change and want a move which then means he joins xxxx club who then have a player/s who may be considered surplus to requirements or not guarenteed first team football when they looked like they were a week ago. Other clubs wont sell players unless they have got a replacement in, like Forest with Peter Whittingham. Selling clubs will hold out for the best deal if they dont have to sell and buying clubs will wait until the end of the window, if the selling clubs needs to sell to get the best price possible, just have look at all the players who move in the last couple of days of every transfer window. Plus the player has to be good enough, of the right character and also want to join us. It's not championship manager, pick a player from the list and its yours in two taps of a keyboard.

 

Cobblers. The season starts in four days. We could have had anyone we wanted by now. If we start Saturday with Paul Wotton in the team, then the Chairman should take the blame for any failure to achieve promotion or win the league...

[Legod Third Coming]

It is however almost certain that we will have a left back at left midfield and possibly a 17 year old at right midfield and maybe Wotton in central midfield. Lallana won't start, Lambert, Schneiderlin and Puncheon may not be fit. (source- Pardew quoted in the Echo). Last year Waigo and Antonio would have played. The midfield cover is weak.

 

I'm not sure even Hammond is quite what we need, but starting with Wotton (a bloke I have 100% respect and admiration for) is not the way to win this league. Not now, not ever.

[alpine_saint]

Cobblers. The season starts in four days. We could have had anyone we wanted by now. If we start Saturday with Paul Wotton in the team, then the Chairman should take the blame for any failure to achieve promotion or win the league...

 

Agree again with your post, except where the blame resides. Maybe NC is partly responsible, but the manager hasnt exactly done his job selling the need for strengthening to the chairman, has he ?

[Give it to Ron]

Agree again with your post, except where the blame resides. Maybe NC is partly responsible, but the manager hasnt exactly done his job selling the need for strengthening to the chairman, has he ?

 

How do you know this??/ Christ most of us agree that we are a bit too weak but FFS think what you are posting.

What was Carter last week then a figment of Pardews imagination??

[John B]

Cobblers. The season starts in four days. We could have had anyone we wanted by now. If we start Saturday with Paul Wotton in the team, then the Chairman should take the blame for any failure to achieve promotion or win the league...

 

Perhaps we will win

[madruss]

I'm not sure even Hammond is quite what we need, but starting with Wotton (a bloke I have 100% respect and admiration for) is not the way to win this league. Not now, not ever.

 

Do you not agree though that there will be a lot more players available to buy/loan the closer we get to the end of the transfer window - as the market picks up. If we end up with a player 10 times better than Wotton, but we have to wait a few weeks then IMO that'll be much better than buying someone only 3 times better than Wotton for the sake of getting them in early....If however we've lost our first three games and there's no good signing, I'll admit we've fuc*ed up on the transfer front

[Legod Third Coming]

Agree again with your post, except where the blame resides. Maybe NC is partly responsible, but the manager hasnt exactly done his job selling the need for strengthening to the chairman, has he ?

 

Who knows what has been said? Pardew appeared to want Danns, we didn't get him... Maybe the Chairman needs to learn the single most important person in a football club is the manager... Source? David Moyes, Alex Ferguson, Jose Mourinho, Harry (yes it's true or are Liverpool and Aston Villa in the Champion's League?) Redknapp, Roy Hodgson... I could go on...

 

I don't think Pardew bought a single bad player last year. So if he says he wants someone, let's buy them. Or had the Chairman suddenly got cold feet?

 

All I know is we need a central midfielder. Paul Wotton is not the way to win this league.

[Legod Third Coming]

Do you not agree though that there will be a lot more players available to buy/loan the closer we get to the end of the transfer window - as the market picks up. If we end up with a player 10 times better than Wotton, but we have to wait a few weeks then IMO that'll be much better than buying someone only 3 times better than Wotton for the sake of getting them in early....If however we've lost our first three games and there's no good signing, I'll admit we've fuc*ed up on the transfer front

 

I want this car my neighbour owns. So I nipped round and asked if it was for sale. No, he said. Really I said. I'll give you four grand for it. I'll take five he said...

 

Of course, before I asked he was sat holding out for eight...

 

What players are clubs holding onto? If we need them, buy them. Everyone is for sale now for the right price. If we don't need them, don't buy them.

 

We are one of the few clubs in the league with money. What use is it earning no interest?

 

So player x will be cheaper come the end of the window will he? What the closer we get to needing him, the less he will cost?

 

Feck me, I bet old Maynard Keynes would like that for a new theory. Footballers, the new Giffen Goods...

 

And anyway what is a few hundred grand if it's the difference between promotion and not?

[madruss]

I want this car my neighbour owns. So I nipped round and asked if it was for sale. No, he said. Really I said. I'll give you four grand for it. I'll take five he said...

 

Of course, before I asked he was sat holding out for eight...

 

What players are clubs holding onto? If we need them, buy them. Everyone is for sale now for the right price. If we don't need them, don't buy them.

 

We are one of the few clubs in the league with money. What use is it earning no interest?

 

So player x will be cheaper come the end of the window will he? What the closer we get to needing him, the less he will cost?

 

Feck me, I bet old Maynard Keynes would like that for a new theory. Footballers, the new Giffen Goods...

 

And anyway what is a few hundred grand if it's the difference between promotion and not?

 

Nope, I don't think it's a question of money. I don't think we're waiting for players to get cheaper, I reckon (and of course it's just an opinion and I could be proved horribly wrong) we're waiting for players who aren't currently available to become available as transfers pick up and/or we get closer to the 'pick your squad of 25 players' deadline. Our management and scouting teams aren't stupid, to suggest they haven't been working very very hard behind the scenes to identify targets for the key areas is pretty ridiculous IMO.

 

We pulled Papa Waigo and Antonio out of the hat with even less time to prepare and review the market. Apparantly these players are now nigh on irreplaceable. Are we now saying that those 'finds' were just a fluke and won't be repeated?!?

[Legod Third Coming]

Nope, I don't think it's a question of money. I don't think we're waiting for players to get cheaper, I reckon (and of course it's just an opinion and I could be proved horribly wrong) we're waiting for players who aren't currently available to become available as transfers pick up and/or we get closer to the 'pick your squad of 25 players' deadline. Our management and scouting teams aren't stupid, to suggest they haven't been working very very hard behind the scenes to identify targets for the key areas is pretty ridiculous IMO.

 

We pulled Papa Waigo and Antonio out of the hat with even less time to prepare and review the market. Apparantly these players are now nigh on irreplaceable. Are we now saying that those 'finds' were just a fluke and won't be repeated?!?

 

I don't believe that the players who are not part of the 25, don't yet know it. Their agents would have known about it for ages... However, I accept that this will cause some element of trickle. But why do we need to be the bottom of this chain?

 

In January we were the tenth highest spenders in England!

 

WE should be going to clubs to put pressure on them, not playing a wait and see game. There's not a player from the Championship down (and even in some of the bottom 10 Premiership clubs) that we could not afford in cash terms. Do they want to come? That's a different story.

 

But I would like to see our central midfield covered sooner than later, because it's here that we struggled last year as soon as Morgan was absent. And it's here that the weakness persists.

 

It will be no good admitting we screwed up in three games time. I fully expect us to beat Plymouth, but another midfield injury and I might as well get the dubbin out myself!

[Turkish]

Cobblers. The season starts in four days. We could have had anyone we wanted by now. If we start Saturday with Paul Wotton in the team, then the Chairman should take the blame for any failure to achieve promotion or win the league...

 

Yeah sorry you're right, thats why Bailey chose to move Middlesbrough the CCC not us, if strong rumours are to be believed that we wanted him, we can have ANYONE we want. We should follow Man Cities example in bidding fot Milner, they could have just got him, afterall, no club haggles over transfer fees for players they dont want or need to sell do they.

[Turkish]

I don't believe that the players who are not part of the 25, don't yet know it. Their agents would have known about it for ages... However, I accept that this will cause some element of trickle. But why do we need to be the bottom of this chain?

 

In January we were the tenth highest spenders in England!

WE should be going to clubs to put pressure on them, not playing a wait and see game. There's not a player from the Championship down (and even in some of the bottom 10 Premiership clubs) that we could not afford in cash terms. Do they want to come? That's a different story.

 

But I would like to see our central midfield covered sooner than later, because it's here that we struggled last year as soon as Morgan was absent. And it's here that the weakness persists.

 

It will be no good admitting we screwed up in three games time. I fully expect us to beat Plymouth, but another midfield injury and I might as well get the dubbin out myself!

 

How do you know we aren't? Pure speculation, rumour has it we have a bid for Tyson turned down, how do you know what is being done to secure this transfer?

[Legod Third Coming]

How do you know we aren't? Pure speculation, rumour has it we have a bid for Tyson turned down, how do you know what is being done to secure this transfer?

 

We have a gaping hole in our midfield mate. What other evidence should I be looking out for to judge the success of our transfer activity?

[Turkish]

We have a gaping hole in our midfield mate. What other evidence should I be looking out for to judge the success of our transfer activity?

 

We dont have a gaping hole in our midfield, we have two very good central midfield players, with an average league one player as cover and a right back in Butterfield who can fill in there as need be like Lloyd James did, exactly the same cover as last season. Outwide we have two very good wide players with cover in Mills, a decent player, Dickson, a good player, OC, a decent prospect and Holmes, if and its a big if, he can stay fit, is also a decent player at this level. The evidence is that we were rumoured to bid for Bailey from Charlton, had a former premier league player on trial which for whatever reason didn't work out and Pardew has said he wants to bring in 3 players, stuff is going on just because the club aren't announcing every player they are interested in like some do, doesn't mean nothing is going on.

[alpine_saint]

We dont have a gaping hole in our midfield, we have two very good central midfield players, with an average league one player as cover and a right back in Butterfield who can fill in there as need be like Lloyd James did, exactly the same cover as last season. Outwide we have two very good wide players with cover in Mills, a decent player, Dickson, a good player, OC, a decent prospect and Holmes, if and its a big if, he can stay fit, is also a decent player at this level. The evidence is that we were rumoured to bid for Bailey from Charlton, had a former premier league player on trial which for whatever reason didn't work out and Pardew has said he wants to bring in 3 players, stuff is going on just because the club aren't announcing every player they are interested in like some do, doesn't mean nothing is going on.

 

I have the ability to fart a lot without producing a turd. Doesnt mean we will sign what we need.

[Legod Third Coming]

We dont have a gaping hole in our midfield, we have two very good central midfield players, with an average league one player as cover and a right back in Butterfield who can fill in there as need be like Lloyd James did, exactly the same cover as last season. Outwide we have two very good wide players with cover in Mills, a decent player, Dickson, a good player, OC, a decent prospect and Holmes, if and its a big if, he can stay fit, is also a decent player at this level. The evidence is that we were rumoured to bid for Bailey from Charlton, had a former premier league player on trial which for whatever reason didn't work out and Pardew has said he wants to bring in 3 players, stuff is going on just because the club aren't announcing every player they are interested in like some do, doesn't mean nothing is going on.

 

No Morgan, no victory. Did you turn up at all last year?

If/when we start with Paul Wotton, the prosecution will rest.

[Turkish]

I have the ability to fart a lot without producing a turd. Doesnt mean we will sign what we need.

 

What a charming image. Need or want? Obviously you know what is going on then, just like you knew we were signing Lambert, Fonte, Barnard etc.

[Turkish]

No Morgan, no victory. Did you turn up at all last year?

If/when we start with Paul Wotton, the prosecution will rest.

 

You've obviously forgotten about the JPT final then.

[Legod Third Coming]

You've obviously forgotten about the JPT final then.

 

If all our opponents defend like Carlisle did that day to hand us a 2-0 lead I could play the centre of fecking midfield. Sadly, I doubt Plymouth and others will be so generous... Time will tell.

But take a look at our league form with and without the Frenchman.

[alpine_saint]

If all our opponents defend like Carlisle did that day to hand us a 2-0 lead I could play the centre of fecking midfield. Sadly, I doubt Plymouth and others will be so generous... Time will tell.

But take a look at our league form with and without the Frenchman.

 

Yep. I was won round to his value by the end of the season.

 

That red card against Yeovil cost us.

[Turkish]

If all our opponents defend like Carlisle did that day to hand us a 2-0 lead I could play the centre of fecking midfield. Sadly, I doubt Plymouth and others will be so generous... Time will tell.

But take a look at our league form with and without the Frenchman.

 

I am not saying he is not a good player, he is class at this level but do you really think it is going to be easy to pesuade a player of a similar ability to come here and not be guarenteed a start? He a CCC standard player at the moment, what CCC player would not only drop down a league but then also not be told they are even guarenteed to be one of th first names on the team sheet?

[alpine_saint]

I am not saying he is not a good player, he is class at this level but do you really think it is going to be easy to pesuade a player of a similar ability to come here and not be guarenteed a start? He a CCC standard player at the moment, what CCC player would not only drop down a league but then also not be told they are even guarenteed to be one of th first names on the team sheet?

 

Why are we looking for a clone of Morgan, FFS ?

 

There are other players who can do a job.

[Legod Third Coming]

I am not saying he is not a good player, he is class at this level but do you really think it is going to be easy to pesuade a player of a similar ability to come here and not be guarenteed a start? He a CCC standard player at the moment, what CCC player would not only drop down a league but then also not be told they are even guarenteed to be one of th first names on the team sheet?

 

First, I think if we are buying someone as 'cover' it is a false economy. I am looking for someone to replace Hammond and push for a first team start every week. No footballer should be bought to sit on a bench.

Competition is key in football.

 

Second, I believe that there are plenty of top quality midfielders who would move to a team who are 11/10 for promotion and owned by a Swiss billionnaire. Why we are not buying one is beyond me... But it need not be Morgan Mk II, just a very good midfielder who is ten times the player Paul Wotton can only aspire to be (and again for the record I have 100% thanks to Wotton and nothing but admiration for the guy). He is simply not what we need to win this league. And apparently that is the Chairman's aspiration...

[Professor]

I hope we will win on Saturday, but for the club that is favorite to win the league, I feel I should be going to the SMS with more confidence. Two new FBs, one of whom may have to play out of position and a 16-yr old at wide MF. When last season ended, I had higher expectations than this for Week 1 of the new season, so now its down to results to see if the anxiety is misplaced.

[Turkish]

Why are we looking for a clone of Morgan, FFS ?

 

There are other players who can do a job.

 

Where did i saw we were? I said a player of similar ability, ie a central midfield player capable of playing at a higher level.

[Turkish]

First, I think if we are buying someone as 'cover' it is a false economy. I am looking for someone to replace Hammond and push for a first team start every week. No footballer should be bought to sit on a bench.

Competition is key in football.

 

Second, I believe that there are plenty of top quality midfielders who would move to a team who are 11/10 for promotion and owned by a Swiss billionnaire. Why we are not buying one is beyond me... But it need not be Morgan Mk II, just a very good midfielder who is ten times the player Paul Wotton can only aspire to be (and again for the record I have 100% thanks to Wotton and nothing but admiration for the guy). He is simply not what we need to win this league. And apparently that is the Chairman's aspiration...

 

I absolutely agree but all people bang on about is 'cover' and that is the point, finding a player better or as good as Hammond and MS, both IMO capable of and have played at a higher level, to drop down a league is not going to be easy. People seem to think players are queuing up to get here, but we failed with bids for Danns & Bailey, people need a dose of reality, we are league one club a big league one club with bit of cash yes, but top quality players are not falling over themselves to join us, so improving on what we have is not going to be as easy as it is on CM10.

[Legod Third Coming]

I absolutely agree but all people bang on about is 'cover' and that is the point, finding a player better or as good as Hammond and MS, both IMO capable of and have played at a higher level, to drop down a league is not going to be easy. People seem to think players are queuing up to get here, but we failed with bids for Danns & Bailey, people need a dose of reality, we are league one club a big league one club with bit of cash yes, but top quality players are not falling over themselves to join us, so improving on what we have is not going to be as easy as it is on CM10.

 

I disagree. I am convinced players are falling over themselves to come here. We are the CHELSEA of this division and have more money than anyone bar about four clubs in this entire country.

Are we willing to spend it, though?

 

Of course, we will not attract Kaka or Rooney. Any player with international or Champion's League aspirations is unlikely to come.

 

But why someone would choose Middlesborough over us for the sake of eight months is mind-boggling. It says to me we were unwilling to pay a price. And that was Rupert Lowe's biggest mistake...

 

Still, perhaps we have a radio station lined up or are changing the catering provision for the better? That will surely get us to the Champion's League which is where I believe our current Chairman has aspirations to be...

 

Will you tell him football is all about the manager and buying the best players available or shall I?

[The Kraken]

I disagree. I am convinced players are falling over themselves to come here. We are the CHELSEA of this division and have more money than anyone bar about four clubs in this entire country.

Are we willing to spend it, though?

 

Of course, we will not attract Kaka or Rooney. Any player with international or Champion's League aspirations is unlikely to come.

 

But why someone would choose Middlesborough over us for the sake of eight months is mind-boggling. It says to me we were unwilling to pay a price. And that was Rupert Lowe's biggest mistake...

 

Still, perhaps we have a radio station lined up or are changing the catering provision for the better? That will surely get us to the Champion's League which is where I believe our current Chairman has aspirations to be...

 

Will you tell him football is all about the manager and buying the best players available or shall I?

 

So do you completely disregard Cortese's assertions that the club has to be run as a viable business? Or are you saying you just want us to lump a load of money at the problem, and be damned with whether we make a profit or loss?

 

Rupert Lowe received a lot of justified criticism but his decision to not allow the club to run at a loss was proven correct; under the reckless stewardship of the club after he was ousted we found out first hand what "paying the price" really delivers.

[Turkish]

I disagree. I am convinced players are falling over themselves to come here. We are the CHELSEA of this division and have more money than anyone bar about four clubs in this entire country.

Are we willing to spend it, though?

 

Of course, we will not attract Kaka or Rooney. Any player with international or Champion's League aspirations is unlikely to come.

 

But why someone would choose Middlesborough over us for the sake of eight months is mind-boggling. It says to me we were unwilling to pay a price. And that was Rupert Lowe's biggest mistake...

 

Still, perhaps we have a radio station lined up or are changing the catering provision for the better? That will surely get us to the Champion's League which is where I believe our current Chairman has aspirations to be...

 

Will you tell him football is all about the manager and buying the best players available or shall I?

 

Danns and Bailey weren't. Middlesbrough are one of the favourites to go up, Bailey could be playing PL football in a year, with us he'd have to wait two years absolute minimum, he is 26 now, probably only got another 4 years left at the very top of his game, if i were him i know where i would go. You seem to think that our market is players outside champions league or international standard, surely this is a wind up? We are a LEAGUE ONE CLUB FFS! Lets have a dose of reality!

Edited 3 August, 2010 by Turkish

[Barry the Badger]

We are the CHELSEA of this division and have more money than anyone bar about four clubs in this entire country.

 

 

No we don't. What a ludicrous thing to say.

 

We have a wealthy OWNER, that does not make it our money. We want to be a sustainable club, so whilst we can offer wages to compete with championship clubs, we are not going to be able to completely outbid them all the time.

 

A large number of Championship players will not want to drop to League 1 unless the money is hugely better than the championship, and we are not going to be spending that sort of money, whatever you think.

[Turkish]

No we don't. What a ludicrous thing to say.

 

We have a wealthy OWNER, that does not make it our money. We want to be a sustainable club, so whilst we can offer wages to compete with championship clubs, we are not going to be able to completely outbid them all the time.

 

A large number of Championship players will not want to drop to League 1 unless the money is hugely better than the championship, and we are not going to be spending that sort of money, whatever you think.

 

And of course then if they dont play like Pele every game they'll be accused of only being here for the money.

[derry]

How anybody can make the statement that Butterfield can play anywhere, as a solution to any of our problems, is pure delusion, as we would have to bring in another right back until Richardson is fit sometime in October at the earliest, so he could be released to cover elsewhere. Butterfield will have to play right back until there is an alternative.

 

As for the midfield, we are down to the bare bones. We have four starting quality midfielders and no compareable cover unless we play one of two left backs wide left. Before anyone mentions Holmes, the question I have to ask is, where is he and why isn't he playing in the friendlies. As for wide right we have a barely 17 year old potentially useful youngster as the only cover. The middle is also a worry as there is no adequate cover for either Schneiderlin or Hammond.

 

As it stands there is no replacement for Lambert leaving Barnard and the fragile Connolly as our only proper striking options. Defensively we are fairly strong.

[Window Cleaner]

How anybody can make the statement that Butterfield can play anywhere, as a solution to any of our problems, is pure delusion, as we would have to bring in another right back until Richardson is fit sometime in October at the earliest, so he could be released to cover elsewhere. Butterfield will have to play right back until there is an alternative.

 

As for the midfield, we are down to the bare bones. We have four starting quality midfielders and no compareable cover unless we play one of two left backs wide left. Before anyone mentions Holmes, the question I have to ask is, where is he and why isn't he playing in the friendlies. As for wide right we have a barely 17 year old potentially useful youngster as the only cover. The middle is also a worry as there is no adequate cover for either Schneiderlin or Hammond.

 

As it stands there is no replacement for Lambert leaving Barnard and the fragile Connolly as our only proper striking options. Defensively we are fairly strong.

 

still I don't doubt that Lallana and Richardson apart they'll be on the field come Saturday 3pm and that we will administer a very serious tonking to Argyle just to welcome them to the League (like Norwich last opening day) However should that not all happen I shall no doubt be in a foul mood on Saturday evening and may be agreeing that you did tell me so.

[Katalinic]

So do you completely disregard Cortese's assertions that the club has to be run as a viable business? Or are you saying you just want us to lump a load of money at the problem, and be damned with whether we make a profit or loss?

 

Rupert Lowe received a lot of justified criticism but his decision to not allow the club to run at a loss was proven correct; under the reckless stewardship of the club after he was ousted we found out first hand what "paying the price" really delivers.

 

The plans and structure that Cortese have implemented are spot on imho - we are improving all areas of the club. You have however re-written history somewhat ref. Lowe. His decisions was not proven correct as we were relegated due to under investment, which started the financial disaster later to compounded by other chancers.

[The Kraken]

How anybody can make the statement that Butterfield can play anywhere, as a solution to any of our problems, is pure delusion, as we would have to bring in another right back until Richardson is fit sometime in October at the earliest, so he could be released to cover elsewhere. Butterfield will have to play right back until there is an alternative.

 

As for the midfield, we are down to the bare bones. We have four starting quality midfielders and no compareable cover unless we play one of two left backs wide left. Before anyone mentions Holmes, the question I have to ask is, where is he and why isn't he playing in the friendlies. As for wide right we have a barely 17 year old potentially useful youngster as the only cover. The middle is also a worry as there is no adequate cover for either Schneiderlin or Hammond.

 

As it stands there is no replacement for Lambert leaving Barnard and the fragile Connolly as our only proper striking options. Defensively we are fairly strong.

 

But how different is it to last year? The problems are just being exacerbated by the extent of the injury list right now.

 

At our last game we missed more than half a team of potential first choice players through injury (Lambert, Puncheon, Lallana, Scheiderlin, Richardson, Seaborne). Unless you're Man City, injuries to that many key players at any one time cannot be fully legislated for and will affect any side. Take Liverpool for instance; remove Fernando Torres, Steven Gerrard, Javier Macherano, Joe Cole, Glen Johnsonand Martin Skrtel from their team and they look very weak on paper. Even with all of our players removed we still have (for this level anyway) a really good number of options there. Plus the assertion of the manager to bring in the extra 2 or 3 players than he wants.

 

I think you do our midfield a slight dis-service. Wotton is clearly a backup CM and no more; but lets not forget that he started (and finished) the JPT final and didn't look out of place there. For a current third choice and hopefully soon 4th choice CM I think it's a good backup to have. Also Mills got quite a few good reviews from his game on Saturday playing RM, so we're not completely bereft of options.

 

It's making do, I'm thoroughly aware of that, I just don't believe its quite as bad as some people make out.

[derry]

still I don't doubt that Lallana and Richardson apart they'll be on the field come Saturday 3pm and that we will administer a very serious tonking to Argyle just welcome them to the League (like Norwich last opening day) However should that not all happen I shall no doubt be in a foul mood on Saturday evening and may be agreeing that you did tell me so.

 

That may well be so, but the three are a doubt. The injection solution was used last week on Lallana but he still is ruled out. Dickson and Harding on the left are compact and won't leave us unbalanced. The lack of replacements for the versatile Waigo and Antonio is the real worry. There is no doubt in my mind that the very minimum we need is a pacy player similar to Waigo that can cover three positions, plus a central midfielder and a pacy wide midfielder. Unless we cover these positions we are not going to be able to sustain a run of injuries that can happen at any time as we have just found out. To allow a comfort zone a couple of useful loans would not come amiss.

[The Kraken]

The plans and structure that Cortese have implemented are spot on imho - we are improving all areas of the club. You have however re-written history somewhat ref. Lowe. His decisions was not proven correct as we were relegated due to under investment, which started the financial disaster later to compounded by other chancers.

 

Lowe's mantra was that we wouldn't invest money that we didn't have. If you think that alone got us relegated, so be it. I would argue his ridculous managerial appointments and over-involvement with team affairs were more to blame. In any case, it's been done to death and I have no desire to revisit that particular argument.

[Katalinic]

That may well be so, but the three are a doubt. The injection solution was used last week on Lallana but he still is ruled out. Dickson and Harding on the left are compact and won't leave us unbalanced. The lack of replacements for the versatile Waigo and Antonio is the real worry. There is no doubt in my mind that the very minimum we need is a pacy player similar to Waigo that can cover three positions, plus a central midfielder and a pacy wide midfielder. Unless we cover these positions we are not going to be able to sustain a run of injuries that can happen at any time as we have just found out. To allow a comfort zone a couple of useful loans would not come amiss.

 

I tend to agree with this - we do on paper look like we lack pace going forward. At the moment I can see us utilising the left hand side almost exclusively therefore becoming too predictable and easy to defend against.

[Katalinic]

Lowe's mantra was that we wouldn't invest money that we didn't have. If you think that alone got us relegated, so be it. I would argue his ridculous managerial appointments and over-involvement with team affairs were more to blame. In any case, it's been done to death and I have no desire to revisit that particular argument.

 

Yes, lets not start the whole debate again!

[derry]

But how different is it to last year? The problems are just being exacerbated by the extent of the injury list right now.

 

At our last game we missed more than half a team of potential first choice players through injury (Lambert, Puncheon, Lallana, Scheiderlin, Richardson, Seaborne). Unless you're Man City, injuries to that many key players at any one time cannot be fully legislated for and will affect any side. Take Liverpool for instance; remove Fernando Torres, Steven Gerrard, Javier Macherano, Joe Cole, Glen Johnsonand Martin Skrtel from their team and they look very weak on paper. Even with all of our players removed we still have (for this level anyway) a really good number of options there. Plus the assertion of the manager to bring in the extra 2 or 3 players than he wants.

 

I think you do our midfield a slight dis-service. Wotton is clearly a backup CM and no more; but lets not forget that he started (and finished) the JPT final and didn't look out of place there. For a current third choice and hopefully soon 4th choice CM I think it's a good backup to have. Also Mills got quite a few good reviews from his game on Saturday playing RM, so we're not completely bereft of options.

 

It's making do, I'm thoroughly aware of that, I just don't believe its quite as bad as some people make out.

 

Wotton isn't and never was the answer. Beating a poor Carlisle side on that day still doesn't make him an answer. Neither is playing Mills who uses his right foot to stand on at right midfield, although if there was no alternative, he would be a better starter than Oxlade-Chamberlain.

 

But the mere fact we are discussing these options shows the current weakness of the squad. Apart from the defence we are weaker than the end of last season.

Edited 3 August, 2010 by derry

[The Kraken]

Wotton is and never was the answer. Beating a poor Carlisle side on that day still doesn't make him an answer. Neither is playing Mills who uses his right foot to stand on at right midfield, although if there was no alternative, he would be a better starter than Oxlade-Chamberlain.

 

But the mere fact we are discussing these options shows the current weakness of the squad. Apart from the defence we are weaker than the end of last season.

 

It's not ideal, I grant. And I fully agree that 3 more players should be brought in. I'm just trying to put into context that the team and options we have at the moment aren't entirely as bad as is being made out. Wotton isn't the answer, and I didn't suggest he is; merely that for a down the order central midfielder there are many worse we could look to (point in case Lloyd James against Oldham, where AP clearly decided its better to have anyone else filling in that poor old Lloyd).

 

You say it shows the current weakness of the squad, which is a term I disagree with. It certainly highlights where the squad could be stronger, but I wouldn't use the term weak to describe what we have.

[derry]

It's not ideal, I grant. And I fully agree that 3 more players should be brought in. I'm just trying to put into context that the team and options we have at the moment aren't entirely as bad as is being made out. Wotton isn't the answer, and I didn't suggest he is; merely that for a down the order central midfielder there are many worse we could look to (point in case Lloyd James against Oldham, where AP clearly decided its better to have anyone else filling in that poor old Lloyd).

 

You say it shows the current weakness of the squad, which is a term I disagree with. It certainly highlights where the squad could be stronger, but I wouldn't use the term weak to describe what we have.

 

The weakness has to be measured against the stated ambition of winning the league. There can be no obvious weaknesses in any side with this ambition. This squad would be difficult to beat, but with forward injuries, would find it difficult to win games against determined opposition, especially perceiving us as favourites to be brought down and raising their game.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Reading this thread carefully almost everyone who has contributed has conceded that the squad needs to be strengthened to some degree at least - that is even the view of senior players such as Ricky Lambert and (I strongly suspect) our manager as well . But despite what is clearly a near consensus of opinion from all concerned (if the squad needs strengthening then ego it must be too weak) if you actually dare to state this obvious truth in a clear and unambiguous manner you are guaranteed to receive all kinds of flak from people who in reality share almost the same viewpoint .

 

If you agree that the squad needs reinforcing then please in the future do try not to jump down the throat of the next person who actually says exactly that !

 

Some of us on this forum have over the years grown into the habit of calling a spade a spade , others clearly don't appreciated that style of plain speaking . But remember the really important thing is what you say - not how you say it .

[Turkish]

Reading this thread carefully almost everyone who has contributed has conceded that the squad needs to be strengthened to some degree at least - that is even the view of senior players such as Ricky Lambert and (I strongly suspect) our manager as well . But despite what is clearly a near consensus of opinion from all concerned (if the squad needs strengthening then ego it must be too weak) if you actually dare to state this obvious truth in a clear and unambiguous manner you are guaranteed to receive all kinds of flak from people who in reality share almost the same viewpoint .

 

If you agree that the squad needs reinforcing then please in the future do try not to jump down the throat of the next person who actually says exactly that !

 

Some of us on this forum have over the years grown into the habit of calling a spade a spade , others clearly don't appreciated that style of plain speaking . But remember the really important thing is what you say - not how you say it .

 

Of course it does. You can never have to strong a squad, too good a team, always be looking to improve. But the panic on here because he haven't signed players of the standard we think we should have in the positions we think we need yet is ridiculous. The most ludicrious coment i saw today was that we can sign anyone we want we want except those that have international or champions league ambitions and these players are falling over themselves to join us. Some People need a dose of reality we are in L1, player for player probably the best XI in league one, which is why improving on it aint going to be easy.

[NickG]

Reading this thread carefully almost everyone who has contributed has conceded that the squad needs to be strengthened to some degree at least - that is even the view of senior players such as Ricky Lambert and (I strongly suspect) our manager as well . But despite what is clearly a near consensus of opinion from all concerned (if the squad needs strengthening then ego it must be too weak) if you actually dare to state this obvious truth in a clear and unambiguous manner you are guaranteed to receive all kinds of flak from people who in reality share almost the same viewpoint .

 

If you agree that the squad needs reinforcing then please in the future do try not to jump down the throat of the next person who actually says exactly that !

 

Some of us on this forum have over the years grown into the habit of calling a spade a spade , others clearly don't appreciated that style of plain speaking . But remember the really important thing is what you say - not how you say it .

 

has anyone said they don't want, don't think it would help, don't think we will, doesn't think AP wants the squad strengthened? Don't think they have.

 

Is the squad weak - nowhere near.

[madruss]

I don't believe that the players who are not part of the 25, don't yet know it. Their agents would have known about it for ages... However, I accept that this will cause some element of trickle. But why do we need to be the bottom of this chain?

 

In January we were the tenth highest spenders in England!

 

WE should be going to clubs to put pressure on them, not playing a wait and see game. There's not a player from the Championship down (and even in some of the bottom 10 Premiership clubs) that we could not afford in cash terms. Do they want to come? That's a different story.

 

But I would like to see our central midfield covered sooner than later, because it's here that we struggled last year as soon as Morgan was absent. And it's here that the weakness persists.

 

It will be no good admitting we screwed up in three games time. I fully expect us to beat Plymouth, but another midfield injury and I might as well get the dubbin out myself!

 

You talk about our spending power like we've got some kind of bottomless pit of money. We're most certainly not the Chelsea of the division. In Premier League terms we're much more akin to Aston Villa, ie spending and building mostly within our means and investing heavily in youth development and the club's infrastructure...with the occasional big splurge on a single player (ie Lambert/Fonte).

 

I expect we are talking to various clubs about player availability, we're just not making a song and dance about it in the press. And sure there might be players who know they're part of the 25 now, but a couple of signings later and suddenly they're no longer part of that 25...and the knock-on effect will ripple through the Premier League making previously unavailable players potential targets. Will they want to come here? Maybe not. Is it worth obliterating our wage structure to accommodate them? unless they're seriously top quality players, then I'd say absolutely not.

 

Hell even Mr Wheeler Dealer himself Harry T*atknapp is frustrated by the slowness of the market and has failed to make any signings this summer yet...however he believes there will be a spark and than flurry of activity in the market, and hopefully clubs like us will benefit (and no matter what you say, we will always fall behind championship teams with promotion credentials in the queue for those players, Nicky Bailey a case in point..no matter how much wonga we throw around)

 

I will concede that the hole in midfield needs to be plugged. Morgan and Hammond need a bit of quality competition, as does Puncheon. And on that note I'd be very surprised if we didn't have at least one midfielder signed by Friday

[alpine_saint]

has anyone said they don't want, don't think it would help, don't think we will, doesn't think AP wants the squad strengthened? Don't think they have.

 

Is the squad weak - nowhere near.

 

No, but it is weaker than that squad that finished last season.