Not good enough

[Gorgiesaint]

As of now now our squad (with the exception of the Full Back position) is significantly weaker in all departments than the squad that finished last season - to claim otherwise is nothing more than wishful thinking frankly .

 

Let's be honest CEC, we've lost Papa Waigo & Antonio* - the rest were deadwood in a squad that was bloated with mediocrity. There are arguments (and I was surprised) that we didn't keep Lloyd James but to says we're significantly weaker in all depts other than full back is over-egging it somewhat. But yes we are weaker in key area's.

 

However who would you have bought that has been transferred so far - who have we missed out on? Don't say Antonio because he isn't going anywhere & I'm sure we would have spoken to Reading about signing him. (Prof - you can answer that as well)

 

Am I concerned as well - yes. I would rather we had a bit more cover in place, but so far AP has gone about things in the right way. I'm happy that he takes his time and gets the right player rather than just filling the squad with players who won't be up to it.

 

* assuming Bart re-signs as appears likely now

Edited 1 August, 2010 by Gorgiesaint

[SaintRichmond]

The outcome of today's game with Reading is not that important as long as the team don't get outplayed but starting without four senior players demonstrates exactly why it was right to question the transfer-in activity.

 

The midfield looks weak and there is no real cover for the strikers. Even bringing someone in before next Saturday is already too late to give us the best chance of maximum points in the early games, because whoever is signed now has not had pre-season with the squad. We've heard all the excuses, and no doubt Pardew will be getting some more ready, but from a fan's point of view this squad doesn't look good enough because it's too thin in key positions.

 

I quite agree. There is NO Midfield "dynamo", no General, ie no Alan Ball

 

Friendly Match or not, the main thing it illustrated was that we ARE nothing more than an ordinary Div 1 side, and, as yet, would be way out of our depth in the CCC

 

And PULIS as Sub ??? With players of his undoubted Quality, we should walk the League, walking being all he can manage

 

Yesterday may bring a few fans back to earth about how "good" we are

Edited 1 August, 2010 by SaintRichmond
missed a bit

[musesaint]

I remain optimistic that we will go up this season ...but I am amazed by the level of blind confidence which some people have ....in parts yesterday we were really good considering 4 key players were missing. By the time Pards brought on our millionth sub the shape had long since gone and the inevitable happened

 

We aren't as good as the betting odds for Promotion suggest ...but then we are far from as bad as a lot of the drama queens on here suggest

 

What we need is a bit of luck ...starting on Saturday !

[Turkish]

This thread was started at the beginning of the game, not after it. The words used are "The midfield looks weak and there is no real cover for the strikers." You'd have to be a long way up Pardew's arse to describe that as 'slagging off'.

The result yesterday is not the point, it's the fact that Pardew thinks his squad is not complete and we are less than one week from the opening game. He's had three months to build his squad and the suggestion now is that he will finish the job after the season is under way. By then we may have already dropped points that we should not have dropped. If that happens and we miss automatic promotion by 1 or 2 points, what will the excuse be then? Excuses are not good enough.

 

Norwich won the league last season by 9 points last season having 'dropped' 42 points over the course of the season, the could have 'dropped' 50 points and still gone up as champions. If after 12 games we have dropped 12 points, for example P12 W7 D3 L2, is this a good or bad start? I am sure every draw or defeat will be lamblasted as its clear some expect us to win every game.

[Turkish]

I quite agree. There is NO Midfield "dynamo", no General, ie no Alan Ball

 

Friendly Match or not, the main thing it illustrated was that we ARE nothing more than an ordinary Div 1 side, and, as yet, would be way out of our depth in the CCC

 

And PULIS as Sub ??? With players of his undoubted Quality, we should walk the League, walking being all he can manage

 

Yesterday may bring a few fans back to earth about how "good" we are

 

Oh please!!! Did you go yesterday?

[Johnny Shearer]

Norwich won the league last season by 9 points last season having 'dropped' 42 points over the course of the season, the could have 'dropped' 50 points and still gone up as champions. If after 12 games we have dropped 12 points, for example P12 W7 D3 L2, is this a good or bad start? I am sure every draw or defeat will be lamblasted as its clear some expect us to win every game.

 

Taking that form over the whole season, I'd take it. Would end up on around 89 points. I expect Saints to win at least 25 games this season, which I think will see us in promotion contention.

[The Kraken]

I quite agree. There is NO Midfield "dynamo", no General, ie no Alan Ball

 

Friendly Match or not, the main thing it illustrated was that we ARE nothing more than an ordinary Div 1 side, and, as yet, would be way out of our depth in the CCC

 

And PULIS as Sub ??? With players of his undoubted Quality, we should walk the League, walking being all he can manage

 

Yesterday may bring a few fans back to earth about how "good" we are

 

Dear me; you're criticising a third tier football club for not having an Alan Ball quality of player in their ranks. Great analogy there.

 

And you seem to be massively missing the point from the game; it seems we learnt much more than you'd credit us for: that before we gave a load of youngsters a run out we more than matched a top level Championship club. That a Saints team without the talismanic Rickie Lambert can adapt and still look very threatening; that shorn of arguably our 4 most influential players we were still able to put out a team that performed very well against a team from the division above.

 

Add in the signings that AP has already stated he intends to make and yesterday's game does nothing but reinforce my opinion that we will be a very strong team this season.

[Turkish]

Taking that form over the whole season, I'd take it. Would end up on around 89 points. I expect Saints to win at least 25 games this season, which I think will see us in promotion contention.

 

exactly, would have been enough to win the league last season. Yet looking at some peoples comments, dropping the odd point here and there is a disaster. We can drop 1/3 of available points over the season and that should still be enough to win the league or at the very least automatic promotion. No team anywhere, will win every game.

[S-Clarke]

exactly, would have been enough to win the league last season. Yet looking at some peoples comments, dropping the odd point here and there is a disaster. We can drop 1/3 of available points over the season and that should still be enough to win the league or at the very least automatic promotion. No team anywhere, will win every game.

 

We will be expected to win every game though, if we don't expect a 254 page thread, started by alpine, discussing how many new players we need and that he was right all along. This forum will be an utter nightmare this season.

[John B]

Even if we only do as well as last season we should be in the playoffs

 

If we win couple more games we will probably promoted automatically

 

So whats the problem?

[Turkish]

We will be expected to win every game though, if we don't expect a 254 page thread, started by alpine, discussing how many new players we need and that he was right all along. This forum will be an utter nightmare this season.

 

The problem for a lot though is they are deluded. We are a L1 club, most league One clubs would love to have a good young player like Mills as second or third choice left midfielder. I agree that we ideally we could do with some cover for RM, CM and CF but i dont expect us to go out and buy players just for the sake, who might not be the best we can get just so they are here for the first game of the season. Lambert wasn't last season and he didn't do to badly did he.

[Turkish]

Even if we only do as well as last season we should be in the playoffs

 

If we win couple more games we will probably promoted automatically

 

So whats the problem?

 

Some expect us to win every game 10-0, that is the problem.

[John B]

Some expect us to win every game 10-0, that is the problem.

 

Well they are ****ing stupid

[WATERSIDEIFASAINT]

I think the reason we have signed noone yet in the cm,striker and winger positions is because we are targeting ambitious signings in those positions and are no doubt competing with ccc sides for the signatures.

 

There has been no signings in Div 1 where I have felt we have missed out.

 

If we are to land Tyson,Danns/Stock type signings we might have to wait to transfer deadline day.Would prefer them in now like everyone else but it may not be possible yet.

 

I am sure AP & NC are trying to strengthen the squad.

 

If we have no signings by 1st September then serious questions will need to be asked of what is really going on behind the scenes because surely NC can see we need those 3 players that AP wants to have the right strength in depth this season

[Saint Fan CaM]

I tend to agree Prof .

 

At the end of the season a point dropped in August will be of exactly equal value and importance to a point dropped in May . I've given up trying to predict the result of a single football match let alone a month's worth , but once you look past what is certainly a good quality starting XI (when they're all fit that is) this squad is obviously desperately thin . Leaving the signing of the reinforcements we clearly require so late is in itself a gamble . As of now now our squad (with the exception of the Full Back position) is significantly weaker in all departments than the squad that finished last season - to claim otherwise is nothing more than wishful thinking frankly .

 

I would remind the more complacent among us that even the improved starting XI we certainly had in the second half of last season was proven to be far from invincible - as any Brighton supporter will attest .

 

People keep telling me there's no need to worry because EPL clubs will being unloading plenty of quality players on loan soon because of new squad size regulations and that some good'uns will surely filter down to us . That's all well and good but if you were Arsene Wenger for instance wouldn't you rather loan out your 'next big thing' to a CCC club where they might learn more playing with and against better quality players ? Who knows they may have marginally fewer lumps kicked out of them in the process .

 

We could already have the quality reinforcements we need lined up of course - for all I know we could be signing 3 new players tomorrow - but until they actually arrive I shall continue to view the coming season with some sense of concern . We're going to win football matches for sure , but the utter walkover many on here seem to be predicting may be not quite as 'nailed on' as they think .

 

Before the usual suspects chip in with the usual arguments can I just remind them that worrying about the state of your team not some treacherous betrayed of the club or an attack on the manager , but rather the natural state of affairs of most football fans - indeed years of bitter experience has taught me that preseason optimism very rarely outlasts the summer sun at this club .

 

Let's hope this season is the exception to that rule .

 

Good post. I agree to an extent with the Prof too on this one. I have considerable concerns about the depth and strength of the squad at CM...Wotton and Pulis as cover for Hammond and Morgan?!?! In those positions alone our season could be significantly shot to bits if we they get injured or suspended.

[Turkish]

Good post. I agree to an extent with the Prof too on this one. I have considerable concerns about the depth and strength of the squad at CM...Wotton and Pulis as cover for Hammond and Morgan?!?! In those positions alone our season could be significantly shot to bits if we they get injured or suspended.

 

Well we had exactly the same cover last season and it didn't seem to be a problem then (minus Lloyd James of course but no one rated him and eveyrone slagged him off anyway). Butterfield, Puncheon and Lallana can also play in the cente of midfield. The whole Wotton this ridiculous. No he isn't the greatest player in the world and i do agree we need to sign a new CM but he does a job, he is 100% commited and a battler, he is a consistant 6 out 10, relable you know exactly what he gives you. He is not as bad as everyone makes out, people just jump on the bangwagon about him. I am sure the people who slag him off are the ones that also slagged off Paul Telfer and dont get that you need this type of player in the squad. All people seem to concentrate on is what we haven't got, not what we do have.

[The Kraken]

Well we had exactly the same cover last season and it didn't seem to be a problem then (minus Lloyd James of course but no one rated him and eveyrone slagged him off anyway). Butterfield, Puncheon and Lallana can also play in the cente of midfield. The whole Wotton this ridiculous. No he isn't the greatest player in the world and i do agree we need to sign a new CM but he does a job, he is 100% commited and a battler, he is a consistant 6 out 10, relable you know exactly what he gives you. He is not as bad as everyone makes out, people just jump on the bangwagon about him. I am sure the people who slag him off are the ones that also slagged off Paul Telfer and dont get that you need this type of player in the squad. All people seem to concentrate on is what we haven't got, not what we do have.

 

This is exactly right. No-one disagrees with the fact that the departures of Antonio and Waigo have diminished our attacking options in one respect. However, it seems to be completely missed that we have also:

 

Signed Dickson who looks like a real prospect in midfield;

 

Got Lee Holmes back to provide more options on the left;

 

Have Joseph Mills who, judging by reviews of yesterday's game, seems to be ready to step up to the mark in midfield;

 

Have Butterfield who, notwithstanding his hat-trick for Palace as an emergency striker, has played a significant amount at right midfield.

 

Have Oxlade-Chamberlain who sounds as if he is right out of the same "impact player" mould as Antonio;

 

Have a fit Connolly back to provide the attacking option we didn't have for a large part of last season.

 

Antonio's impact will of course be missed; but let's not forget that we have also gained in a number of other areas too, and AP has stated he still wants to bring in more players.

[CitySaint]

Have Oxlade-Chamberlain who sounds as if he is right out of the same "impact player" mould as Antonio;

 

I think this is a key reason why they haven't made more effort to reach a deal for Antonio.

 

Otherwise I think the squad has improved, but I will be amazed if we don't bring in 2 more players before Saturday or maybe before the window shuts. I think everyone associated with the club, accepts and realises this. Then we will be just fine.

[Professor]

To recognise that Jaidi and Connolly are both a year older, which at 33 and 35 can mean more time out with injuries, and that the two wide MFs have not been replaced is not being negative it is just

stating as facts, things that Pardew has also said. To pretend it doesn't matter, and that dropping points doesn't matter, is simply complacent and whilst that doesn't matter when its people on here posting complacent replies, it does matter if the club management are behaving in the same way.

One niggling worry is whether the club does have as much money available as we might have thought. All the released players must have saved a large sum on the wage bill but what about the transfer budget? Richardson may have cost £450K, Dickson between £100K-£300K, (subject to the Tribunal decision) and no fee for Butterfield, so the spend is something over £500K. If Pardew is having to look at loans now, perhaps his budget has gone. We must hope not, but it could account for the lack of activity.

[yorkie]

Let's not panic Papa is coming back according to the latest rumour mongerers!

[The Kraken]

To recognise that Jaidi and Connolly are both a year older, which at 33 and 35 can mean more time out with injuries, and that the two wide MFs have not been replaced is not being negative it is just

stating as facts, things that Pardew has also said. To pretend it doesn't matter, and that dropping points doesn't matter, is simply complacent and whilst that doesn't matter when its people on here posting complacent replies, it does matter if the club management are behaving in the same way.

One niggling worry is whether the club does have as much money available as we might have thought. All the released players must have saved a large sum on the wage bill but what about the transfer budget? Richardson may have cost £450K, Dickson between £100K-£300K, (subject to the Tribunal decision) and no fee for Butterfield, so the spend is something over £500K. If Pardew is having to look at loans now, perhaps his budget has gone. We must hope not, but it could account for the lack of activity.

 

Seriously, where has anyone said this? Pretty much everyone recognises that we would be a better squad with Antonio in it rather than not.

 

But I disagree with you; I believe that it is negative to state that the squad is significantly weaker for the loss of two bit part players, especially when (as I've outlined above) we have also gained so much in other areas. And doubly so given that AP has stated he still wants to bring in new players.

 

It comes down to this; would we have a better squad with Antonio and Waigo in it? Yes.

 

Have the new players signed added to the quality of the squad? Yes.

 

We may have lost two previous options at right midfield but we also now have more options at right back, left back, left midfield, plus an exciting prospect at right wing who could turn out to be every bit as influential as Antonio was. And a stated desire from the manager to find another player for right wing. If that happens to take a few more weeks then, while not being ideal, there should be no excuses for the players we already have being able to cope more than adequately until then.

[bender]

FFS why is everyone panicking? We wont start the season well. We never do. But non prem = 46 games which is a massive roller coaster.

 

Dont forget last season we would have been up automatically if we had 3 more points (and without the pts reduction obviously), and last season we had real spells of poor form, in fact we didnt have much of a team at all early on.

 

If we concentrate on this league and field reserves for cup games, I cant see anything but promotion, especially after dipping into the transfer market in Jan if need be.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Let's be honest CEC, we've lost Papa Waigo & Antonio* - the rest were deadwood in a squad that was bloated with mediocrity. There are arguments (and I was surprised) that we didn't keep Lloyd James but to says we're significantly weaker in all depts other than full back is over-egging it somewhat. But yes we are weaker in key area's.

 

However who would you have bought that has been transferred so far - who have we missed out on? Don't say Antonio because he isn't going anywhere & I'm sure we would have spoken to Reading about signing him. (Prof - you can answer that as well)

 

Am I concerned as well - yes. I would rather we had a bit more cover in place, but so far AP has gone about things in the right way. I'm happy that he takes his time and gets the right player rather than just filling the squad with players who won't be up to it.

 

* assuming Bart re-signs as appears likely now

 

In the first part of this post you criticize me for raising concerns about the strength of the squad - but then you add that you are actually quite concerned as well . As we seem to be in complete agreement on the heart of he matter I'm not entirely sure what point you are trying to make frankly . On the question of 'who have we missed out on' there must be quite literally 1000's of quality players available in the world game who might have strengthen our squad in theory - I could attempt to list them all but unfortunately but by the time I've finished that Herculean task I fear most would probably have retired .

 

While we're on the subject at least one of the "deadwood" players you mention has actually gone up a division rather than down - doesn't deadwood tend to sink rather than float ?

Edited 1 August, 2010 by CHAPEL END CHARLIE

[Legod Third Coming]

Under Poortvliet, when we played Celtic and West Ham pre-season, we looked brilliant. Meant nothing to the rest of the season, clearly.

 

We lost those games though... Let's hope Saturday was no portent.

[SaintRichmond]

Oh please!!! Did you go yesterday?

 

Yes I went, as I have done for the last 40 odd years. I don't look at games through red and white tinted glasses though, as most do on here

 

I assume you went ??, so I assume you think we are a wonderful Team just waiting to set Div 1 alight

 

Think again, the season will be a long hard struggle

 

Promotion has to be EARNT, it is not a "Gimme"

[Joensuu]

Players in the accendency will demand long term contracts (only players past their best, or being given one last chance get one year contracts.

 

Next summer (if we are promoted) fans on here will be demanding we sign 'Lower-Premier' quality replacements for many of our current squad. Where will this leave a 'Lambert-backup' many are demanding this summer? What, 5th, or 6th choice in a heavily bloated squad?

 

What I'm trying to say, is that if we are serious about promotion, we obviously need a couple of new heads, but we don't want to bloat our squad. As I see it, the only sensible options are:

• Old quality players on short-term contracts
  
• Young potential, who seem likely to make the step up
  
• Loanees
  

IMO, getting young quality players on loan is by far the most sensible strategy - especially to inject some much-needed pace upfront. Rather than bloat the squad, it'd be more sensible to loan the players we need, then next summer we will (hopefully) be able to bring in new players of a higher calibre.

 

The current squad IS without doubt one of the best in the league. There IS already plenty of cover in all positions (and yes, I include Wotton in that assessment, he's more than capable of doing a job in this league). Some of us on this board are just being greedy, wanting more, and wanting it now... forgetting that doing so is likely to cause us more of a headache next summer when we find we have c. three good-league one players in each position, and now want to bring in some top-level championship/lower premier players.

 

Finding quality loans is definately the way to go for any club wanting multiple promotions quickly.

[Turkish]

Yes I went, as I have done for the last 40 odd years. I don't look at games through red and white tinted glasses though, as most do on here

 

I assume you went ??, so I assume you think we are a wonderful Team just waiting to set Div 1 alight

 

Think again, the season will be a long hard struggle

 

Promotion has to be EARNT, it is not a "Gimme"

 

yes i went as i have done for the last 25 odd years, you can see my comments on the game on the 'for those that were at the game' thread. I dont look at games through red and white tinted glasses either, but what i am not overly critical and negative when it's quite clear that the team we have is match for anyone in L1. We matched Reading until the subs were made, so might even say we were the better side, i wouldn't got that far but there was not a lot of difference, this without 4 players who would be automatic starts.

 

No one thinks promotion is a "gimme" but all this panicing is as ridiculous as your 'we are an ordinary league one side'. Was our form after christmas that of an 'ordinary league one side'? Everyone agrees we need three players to complete the squad but even without we are good enough to make the top 6 at least. It seems everyone in football agrees with this, both Lee Clark and Danny Wilson saying this weekend we are them to beat in this divison and whoever finishes above us goes ups. Although obviously they dont know as much as you, afterall we dont have anyone like Alan Ball in our team do we.

[Professor]

...................Everyone agrees we need three players to complete the squad but even without we are good enough to make the top 6 at least. It seems everyone in football agrees with this, both Lee Clark and Danny Wilson saying this weekend we are them to beat in this divison and whoever finishes above us goes ups. Although obviously they dont know as much as you, afterall we dont have anyone like Alan Ball in our team do we.

Its hard to see why Turkish is constantly posting comments against the 'not good enough' proposition but is then agreeing with it. If everyone accepts, as Turkish does, that we need three players, that shows the squad is not as good as it needs to be. What I have commented on is that this has been known since the end of last season and after 3 months it hasn't been dealt with. This has two consequences (1) that when these players are brought in they will take time to settle because they haven't had pre-season with us, something Pardew said was a weakness of the team last autumn, and (2) if we are looking at loans is that indicative that the club is not as well financed as well thought it was.

[captainchris]

I remain optimistic that we will go up this season ...but I am amazed by the level of blind confidence which some people have ....in parts yesterday we were really good considering 4 key players were missing. By the time Pards brought on our millionth sub the shape had long since gone and the inevitable happened

 

We aren't as good as the betting odds for Promotion suggest ...but then we are far from as bad as a lot of the drama queens on here suggest

 

What we need is a bit of luck ...starting on Saturday !

 

LUCK !!!! So it's relying on luck is it??? This club cannot rely on luck this year. It's skill we need to win promotion - Exeter City need luck !!!!!

For God's sake get a grip, your statement is exactly one million miles off course !!!!!!!!

[captainchris]

Its hard to see why Turkish is constantly posting comments against the 'not good enough' proposition but is then agreeing with it. If everyone accepts, as Turkish does, that we need three players, that shows the squad is not as good as it needs to be. What I have commented on is that this has been known since the end of last season and after 3 months it hasn't been dealt with. This has two consequences (1) that when these players are brought in they will take time to settle because they haven't had pre-season with us, something Pardew said was a weakness of the team last autumn, and (2) if we are looking at loans is that indicative that the club is not as well financed as well thought it was.

 

100% Accurate post........................

[The Kraken]

Its hard to see why Turkish is constantly posting comments against the 'not good enough' proposition but is then agreeing with it. If everyone accepts, as Turkish does, that we need three players, that shows the squad is not as good as it needs to be. What I have commented on is that this has been known since the end of last season and after 3 months it hasn't been dealt with. This has two consequences (1) that when these players are brought in they will take time to settle because they haven't had pre-season with us, something Pardew said was a weakness of the team last autumn, and (2) if we are looking at loans is that indicative that the club is not as well financed as well thought it was.

 

I would like the club to sign three more players; however, I think there's a difference between "need" and "want".

 

Look at what we're missing compared to last year; a whole bunch of squad players who weren't near the team, plus Waigo and Antonio. If we can generally accept that only those two are a necessity to be replaced, we can make the argument that the centre of midfield is exactly as strong as it was last year. Therefore signing another CM would improve us from last year; not signing one would leave us at the same level (OK we lost Lloyd James but that for me is not a bad thing).

 

As for Waigo, I didn't rate him anyway but know others did. Since the arrival of Puncheon, Waigo's chances at right wing were very limited and he was more used up front. However, we now have a fully fit Connolly which we didn't have through the back end of the season, so it could be argued we're covered in that area.

 

Next up, Antonio. It looks extremely unlikely now that we'll sign him so need to look at a replacement. Immediately we have Oxlade-Chamberlain, though clearly the jury is out, but he's been getting some good reviews in pre-season so deserves his chance. At first glance it therefore looks like we're weaker here.

 

The agreement over the 3 signings comes from the fact that they would definitely improve the squad. However, I truly believe we're extremely close to where we were last year. We're stronger at right back, Dickson offers something completely new at left midfield (either as cover for or an alternative to Lallana). It may well be that when Lallana returns he is used on the right with Dickson on the left, which again negates the lack of Antonio there. It may also be that Pardew picks up a trump card in the next few weeks. Either way, there's is every reason to be positive about our chances. I firmly believe that even with our current squad we should be looking at top 2. The three extra signings will just be the icing on the cake and further add to our options.

[SaintRichmond]

yes i went as i have done for the last 25 odd years, you can see my comments on the game on the 'for those that were at the game' thread. I dont look at games through red and white tinted glasses either, but what i am not overly critical and negative when it's quite clear that the team we have is match for anyone in L1. We matched Reading until the subs were made, so might even say we were the better side, i wouldn't got that far but there was not a lot of difference, this without 4 players who would be automatic starts.

 

No one thinks promotion is a "gimme" but all this panicing is as ridiculous as your 'we are an ordinary league one side'. Was our form after christmas that of an 'ordinary league one side'? Everyone agrees we need three players to complete the squad but even without we are good enough to make the top 6 at least. It seems everyone in football agrees with this, both Lee Clark and Danny Wilson saying this weekend we are them to beat in this divison and whoever finishes above us goes ups. Although obviously they dont know as much as you, afterall we dont have anyone like Alan Ball in our team do we.

 

I applaud your optimism, though I do not at the moment completely share it

 

My earlier comment re Alan Ball ?? I should of course said we are missing a player of the TYPE of Alan Ball, a midfield "General" I could have also said a Steve Williams TYPE

 

Re your comment about me knowing a lot .... NO, I don't, but I am entitled to an OPINION, just like you

 

But, as we are both Saints FANS, I am sure we both look forward to a successful season

[St_Tel49]

To recognise that Jaidi and Connolly are both a year older, which at 33 and 35 can mean more time out with injuries, and that the two wide MFs have not been replaced is not being negative it is just

stating as facts, things that Pardew has also said. To pretend it doesn't matter, and that dropping points doesn't matter, is simply complacent and whilst that doesn't matter when its people on here posting complacent replies, it does matter if the club management are behaving in the same way.

One niggling worry is whether the club does have as much money available as we might have thought. All the released players must have saved a large sum on the wage bill but what about the transfer budget? Richardson may have cost £450K, Dickson between £100K-£300K, (subject to the Tribunal decision) and no fee for Butterfield, so the spend is something over £500K. If Pardew is having to look at loans now, perhaps his budget has gone. We must hope not, but it could account for the lack of activity.

There might possibly be grounds for concern but no grounds for panic. We should all know by now that Cortese plays his cards close to his chest and you will only find out what has been going on is when it has happened. He also plays hard ball, so if one of our targets is overpriced he walks away - and so he should. Personally I am tired of fairly average footballers bought at stupid prices and paid stupid wages just because they happened to be the best available at one particular time. There is no point in Pardew bringing in people who are no better than what he has got. Better not to sign players than clog up the squad with people who will rarely get a game. I really think that it is waiting game if we want get the players who will genuinely reinforce the squad.

[Turkish]

I would like the club to sign three more players; however, I think there's a difference between "need" and "want".

 

Look at what we're missing compared to last year; a whole bunch of squad players who weren't near the team, plus Waigo and Antonio. If we can generally accept that only those two are a necessity to be replaced, we can make the argument that the centre of midfield is exactly as strong as it was last year. Therefore signing another CM would improve us from last year; not signing one would leave us at the same level (OK we lost Lloyd James but that for me is not a bad thing).

 

As for Waigo, I didn't rate him anyway but know others did. Since the arrival of Puncheon, Waigo's chances at right wing were very limited and he was more used up front. However, we now have a fully fit Connolly which we didn't have through the back end of the season, so it could be argued we're covered in that area.

 

Next up, Antonio. It looks extremely unlikely now that we'll sign him so need to look at a replacement. Immediately we have Oxlade-Chamberlain, though clearly the jury is out, but he's been getting some good reviews in pre-season so deserves his chance. At first glance it therefore looks like we're weaker here.

 

The agreement over the 3 signings comes from the fact that they would definitely improve the squad. However, I truly believe we're extremely close to where we were last year. We're stronger at right back, Dickson offers something completely new at left midfield (either as cover for or an alternative to Lallana). It may well be that when Lallana returns he is used on the right with Dickson on the left, which again negates the lack of Antonio there. It may also be that Pardew picks up a trump card in the next few weeks. Either way, there's is every reason to be positive about our chances. I firmly believe that even with our current squad we should be looking at top 2. The three extra signings will just be the icing on the cake and further add to our options.

 

This, 3 players to complete the squad, not needed but wanted, ideally. Like i have already said, how many L1 clubs could dream of having a player like Mills as third choice left back/midfielder? Or having the choice of Lambert, Barnard & Connolly for strikers, Richardson or Butterfield at right back and Harding and Dickson for left back.

Edited 2 August, 2010 by Turkish

[Turkish]

I applaud your optimism, though I do not at the moment completely share it

 

My earlier comment re Alan Ball ?? I should of course said we are missing a player of the TYPE of Alan Ball, a midfield "General" I could have also said a Steve Williams TYPE

 

Re your comment about me knowing a lot .... NO, I don't, but I am entitled to an OPINION, just like you

 

But, as we are both Saints FANS, I am sure we both look forward to a successful season

 

In reality who does have this sort of player anymore? The days of Souness, Ball, Case, even Keane and Viera seem to be gone. Who is Man Utds 'midfield general'? Is Steven Gerrard this for Liverpool? I dont think so. What about Arsenal, VIlla, Man City, Spurs, Barcelona, Read Madrid? no, not a 'midfield general' amoungst them. The only one you could say is like that is Essien at Chelsea.

[Minsk]

Players in the accendency will demand long term contracts (only players past their best, or being given one last chance get one year contracts.

 

Next summer (if we are promoted) fans on here will be demanding we sign 'Lower-Premier' quality replacements for many of our current squad. Where will this leave a 'Lambert-backup' many are demanding this summer? What, 5th, or 6th choice in a heavily bloated squad?

 

 

What I'm trying to say, is that if we are serious about promotion, we obviously need a couple of new heads, but we don't want to bloat our squad. As I see it, the only sensible options are:

• Old quality players on short-term contracts
  
• Young potential, who seem likely to make the step up
  
• Loanees
  

IMO, getting young quality players on loan is by far the most sensible strategy - especially to inject some much-needed pace upfront. Rather than bloat the squad, it'd be more sensible to loan the players we need, then next summer we will (hopefully) be able to bring in new players of a higher calibre.

 

The current squad IS without doubt one of the best in the league. There IS already plenty of cover in all positions (and yes, I include Wotton in that assessment, he's more than capable of doing a job in this league). Some of us on this board are just being greedy, wanting more, and wanting it now... forgetting that doing so is likely to cause us more of a headache next summer when we find we have c. three good-league one players in each position, and now want to bring in some top-level championship/lower premier players.

 

Finding quality loans is definately the way to go for any club wanting multiple promotions quickly.

 

 

Good post.

 

I notice that Professor, Alpine, et al, who are bemoaning our lack of players signed thus far have avoided answering a few questions put to them on here. Namely:

 

1. What players, do you think, have we missed out on who have signed for other L1 teams?

 

2. Which, realistic, players do you think we could have already signed?

 

3. Would you rather we did a Poopy and signed some decent players on inflated wages who would most likely not play when everyone is fit/available (living beyond our means) or would you rather we had an inflated squad of averages players (as when we were relegated from the prem)?

 

4. Do you honestly not think it sensible to wait until the right player (one who will definitely improve the team and squad and who will be of CC quality when we are promoted) becomes available or that it is a much better idea to just anyone available in order to give the squad more depth?

Edited 2 August, 2010 by Minsk

[alpine_saint]

Good post.

 

I notice that Professor, Alpine, et al, who are bemoaning our lack of players signed thus far have avoided answering a few questions put to them on here. Namely:

 

1. What players, do you think, have we missed out on who have signed for other L1 teams?

 

2. Which, realistic, players do you think we could have already signed?

 

3. Would you rather we did a Poopy and signed some decent players on inflated wages who would most likely not play when everyone is fit/available (living beyond our means) or would you rather we had an inflated squad of averages players (as when we were relegated from the prem)?

 

4. Do you honestly not think it sensible to wait until the right player (one who will definitely improve the team and squad and who will be of CC quality when we are promoted) becomes available and that it is a much better idea to just anyone available in order to give the squad more depth?

 

I dont think it is our place to answer these questions.

 

That is APs and NCs jobs. Thats what they are paid (handsomely) to do.

[Minsk]

I dont think it is our place to answer these questions.

 

That is APs and NCs jobs. Thats what they are paid (handsomely) to do.

 

LOL. Cop out of an answer, unsurprisingly. But still doesn't stop you answering questions 3 and 4 (although, as you are of the opine we should have signed players it would be nice to hear who think they should have been).

[alpine_saint]

LOL. Cop out of an answer, unsurprisingly. But still doesn't stop you answering questions 3 and 4 (although, as you are of the opine we should have signed players it would be nice to hear who think they should have been).

 

Why is it a cop-out of an answer ? Its the truth. They know how they want to play, and they have the scouts to find the right player. Its so easy for the likes of you to throw those questions out knowing that I have enough trouble getting to see Saints let alone having a good overview of the whole English game.

 

And considering the sneer of your response, why on earth do you think I should waste my time honouring your other questions with an answer ?

[Minsk]

Why is it a cop-out of an answer ? Its the truth. They know how they want to play, and they have the scouts to find the right player. Its so easy for the likes of you to throw those questions out knowing that I have enough trouble getting to see Saints let alone having a good overview of the whole English game.

 

And considering the sneer of your response, why on earth do you think I should waste my time honouring your other questions with an answer ?

 

It was a cop-out of an answer because two of the questions were regarding your (and others') personal opinion and not those of AP/NC.

 

And what is 'the likes of me'? I get to see about as many matches at SMS each season as you do. I live further away from Southampton than you do. I am also certainly out of touch with lower league players, but I feel I could give an opinion on some (potential) transfer targets by researching on the web. Then there are other (rumoured) targets (such as Tyson) who I feel I have seen enough times in the flesh/on TV to have a valid opinion of.

 

Anyway, it's a free world and your choice not to debate anything which you do not wish to on a forum. However, if someone (not just you, anyone in general) keeps posting on a certain topic then (I feel) their view is deemed more credible if they debate and answer reasonable questions when asked them.

[sadoldgit]

No one here knows what is going on behind the secens to strenghten the squad so why then the automatic assumption that it is nothing? Decent players are going to sought after by several clubs and not all (surprisingly) will want to come to L1 and SFC anyway. Let's wait and see and then comment shall we? It wasn't that long ago that AP was being pillioried for not strenghtening the defence.

[alpine_saint]

No one here knows what is going on behind the secens to strenghten the squad so why then the automatic assumption that it is nothing? Decent players are going to sought after by several clubs and not all (surprisingly) will want to come to L1 and SFC anyway. Let's wait and see and then comment shall we? It wasn't that long ago that AP was being pillioried for not strenghtening the defence.

 

I dont recall that at all.

[Super_Uwe]

IMO the squad is strong enough - look at our resources compared to other League One clubs. To bemoan our lack of strength-in-depth at a time when there are clubs like Southend and Pompey who can barely find enough players to make even a starting eleven shows a certain lack of perspective (yes I'll admit neither club are likely to challenge for promotion in their respective divisions, but it's a point to be considered nevertheless).

 

It is extremely unlikely that our starting eleven v Plymouth is going to have any major "square pegs in round holes"; we might not necessarily be able to field our strongest team due to injuries but it's unlikely we'll be playing midfielders as emergency full-backs etc.

 

The problem that we can all rightly be at least a little concerned about is whether the players struggle to live up to the pressure of being favourites to win the title. However, as I've stated before, the core players that we have now have know how to win a game of football in a red-and-white shirt (or sash this season of course!). This latter point shouldn't be underestimated given our recent history. They've earned the right over the past 9 months to be given this chance - and let's not beat about the bush, this is a GOLDEN chance - to take the club back to the Championship. But they will know all too well that football has a nasty habit of surprising you when you least expect it, and that IMHO is AP's biggest test at the moment - can the players hold their nerve over the season?

 

I do understand the posts where people are looking for signings to be made, but I genuinely believe we have more than enough talent on our books to do the business this year.

[Legod Third Coming]

Good post.

 

I notice that Professor, Alpine, et al, who are bemoaning our lack of players signed thus far have avoided answering a few questions put to them on here. Namely:

 

1. What players, do you think, have we missed out on who have signed for other L1 teams?

 

2. Which, realistic, players do you think we could have already signed?

 

3. Would you rather we did a Poopy and signed some decent players on inflated wages who would most likely not play when everyone is fit/available (living beyond our means) or would you rather we had an inflated squad of averages players (as when we were relegated from the prem)?

 

4. Do you honestly not think it sensible to wait until the right player (one who will definitely improve the team and squad and who will be of CC quality when we are promoted) becomes available or that it is a much better idea to just anyone available in order to give the squad more depth?

 

If there are players we need, buy them. I have said this over and over. Why are players going to 'become available'?? They're not. Either they are for sale or they aren't. So find out who is and buy them. And stop this fannying around that could cost us the league.

[alpine_saint]

If there are players we need, buy them. I have said this over and over. Why are players going to 'become available'?? They're not. Either they are for sale or they aren't. So find out who is and buy them. And stop this fannying around that could cost us the league.

 

Agree about 1000%

[Turkish]

If there are players we need, buy them. I have said this over and over. Why are players going to 'become available'?? They're not. Either they are for sale or they aren't. So find out who is and buy them. And stop this fannying around that could cost us the league.

 

Of course players become available. At any time a players circumstances can change and want a move which then means he joins xxxx club who then have a player/s who may be considered surplus to requirements or not guarenteed first team football when they looked like they were a week ago. Other clubs wont sell players unless they have got a replacement in, like Forest with Peter Whittingham. Selling clubs will hold out for the best deal if they dont have to sell and buying clubs will wait until the end of the window, if the selling clubs needs to sell to get the best price possible, just have look at all the players who move in the last couple of days of every transfer window. Plus the player has to be good enough, of the right character and also want to join us. It's not championship manager, pick a player from the list and its yours in two taps of a keyboard.

Edited 2 August, 2010 by Turkish

[Gorgiesaint]

In the first part of this post you criticize me for raising concerns about the strength of the squad - but then you add that you are actually quite concerned as well . As we seem to be in complete agreement on the heart of he matter I'm not entirely sure what point you are trying to make frankly . On the question of 'who have we missed out on' there must be quite literally 1000's of quality players available in the world game who might have strengthen our squad in theory - I could attempt to list them all but unfortunately but by the time I've finished that Herculean task I fear most would probably have retired .

 

While we're on the subject at least one of the "deadwood" players you mention has actually gone up a division rather than down - doesn't deadwood tend to sink rather than float ?

 

Your quote was that the squad "is significantly weaker in all departments than the squad that finished last season". It's a question of balance - I'm concerned because I'd like some cover for Morgan but I'm not panicking as you appear to be.

 

Re players we've missed out on - go on name one player signed by L1 club that you wish we signed... go on... just one? You ignored it because you can't name anybody.

 

Yes, Simon Gillett was signed by Doncaster - do you think AP would have let him go if he didn't rate him? He let him go on loan for most of last season & had a couple of looks to see how good he was. Obviously, AP doesn't rate him so he's deadwood at the club. You may have a different opinion, as do I but it's AP's view that counts. If it helps, I would have re-signed Gillett but then I'm not the manager at SFC.

[Topcat]

last season, not only did we have minus 10 points we pretty much had no team.So not surprisingly we had a terrible start. Any one reading too much in to the preseason results are being foolish. Pre season is simply about getting fit. We will not have as bad a start as last season, surely no one thinks that. Why cant the negatives and doom and gloom merchants bite their tongues and wait and see. I am sure the season will not be smooth sailing, we are the saints f.f.s. but if we are not in the top 3 at the end of the season, then i would worry.

I reckon we have good reason to be looking forward to a great season ahead.

 

You are right. We are going into this season probably in better shape than at least the previous 5. In many seasons we were short of centre backs at this stage and often were down to 2 fit centre backs which then led to a severely weakened defence (when one got injured) and the inevitable poor starts to the season. Sometimes this happened even when we had the money and we had Manager's like Burley that also disliked specialist full backs and preferred lots of midfielders...

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Your quote was that the squad "is significantly weaker in all departments than the squad that finished last season". It's a question of balance - I'm concerned because I'd like some cover for Morgan but I'm not panicking as you appear to be.

 

Re players we've missed out on - go on name one player signed by L1 club that you wish we signed... go on... just one? You ignored it because you can't name anybody.

 

Yes, Simon Gillett was signed by Doncaster - do you think AP would have let him go if he didn't rate him? He let him go on loan for most of last season & had a couple of looks to see how good he was. Obviously, AP doesn't rate him so he's deadwood at the club. You may have a different opinion, as do I but it's AP's view that counts. If it helps, I would have re-signed Gillett but then I'm not the manager at SFC.

 

Just a few points in reply to the above .

 

1 - I said the squad is "significantly weaker" that the squad that finished last season because that is my view based on a honest appraisal (without the benefit of red & white spectacles) of the squad . Many on here don't agree with me - I think they're wrong .

 

2 - I've been a member of this forum since 2007 - during all of that time I have never once named a specific player I want to see this great club sign . The reasons for this is that I do not (and have never claimed) to possess an encyclopedic knowledge of the 1000's of lower league players who could well 'do a good job' for us . I freely admit I'm the type of fan who primarily concentrates on our players during a match - not the opposition . More to the point I believe it is the proper role of the manager and his scouting network to identify players , you can rest assured they neither want nor need my (or your) input . I know the type of players I want to see sign for us (a pacey forward & a quality midfielder to replace Paul Wotton ...etc) but I'll leave it to the professionals to find them .

If you don't like that answer then you will just have to live with the disappointment .

 

3 - I'm glad you mentioned Simon Gillett .

12 months ago this forum democratically voted for him to be our sponsored player - because of the magnificent bloody effort this young lad had put in for the club under what were very differcult circumstances . Now you can hardly find anybody who will say a good word about him . Worst than that even decent players such as Simon Gillett & Wayne Thomas (without whom we would not have gotten to Wembley I would remind you) are now apparently just so much "deadwood" there to be discarded & forgotten . Yes Alan Pardew doesn't rate him so he's gone - that is part and parcel of any footballers life - but why insult players who have never done anything less than their very best for this club ?

 

It's perfectly true some of the 15 players who have left this summer would probably not have played very much for the 1st team this coming season . But a squad is much more than its first XI , you just can't say a squad that has lost 15 and only gained 3 to replace them is in any meaningful sense 'stronger' than it was before - it just won't do .

Edited 2 August, 2010 by CHAPEL END CHARLIE

[derry]

IMO the squad is strong enough - look at our resources compared to other League One clubs. To bemoan our lack of strength-in-depth at a time when there are clubs like Southend and Pompey who can barely find enough players to make even a starting eleven shows a certain lack of perspective (yes I'll admit neither club are likely to challenge for promotion in their respective divisions, but it's a point to be considered nevertheless).

 

It is extremely unlikely that our starting eleven v Plymouth is going to have any major "square pegs in round holes"; we might not necessarily be able to field our strongest team due to injuries but it's unlikely we'll be playing midfielders as emergency full-backs etc.

 

The problem that we can all rightly be at least a little concerned about is whether the players struggle to live up to the pressure of being favourites to win the title. However, as I've stated before, the core players that we have now have know how to win a game of football in a red-and-white shirt (or sash this season of course!). This latter point shouldn't be underestimated given our recent history. They've earned the right over the past 9 months to be given this chance - and let's not beat about the bush, this is a GOLDEN chance - to take the club back to the Championship. But they will know all too well that football has a nasty habit of surprising you when you least expect it, and that IMHO is AP's biggest test at the moment - can the players hold their nerve over the season?

 

I do understand the posts where people are looking for signings to be made, but I genuinely believe we have more than enough talent on our books to do the business this year.

 

It is however almost certain that we will have a left back at left midfield and possibly a 17 year old at right midfield and maybe Wotton in central midfield. Lallana won't start, Lambert, Schneiderlin and Puncheon may not be fit. (source- Pardew quoted in the Echo). Last year Waigo and Antonio would have played. The midfield cover is weak.