Trolls

[Viking Warrior]

Im not sure if this has been posted but neverless its interesting a bit long . I gues we have a few trolls on this site

Internet communities are full with disruptive people, trolls and dissenters. They are all around the internet and a forum is not a regular forum if it does not have trolls in it. So what are these people really, how do they act, what do you do with them, and how to act in case of emergiency?

 

Lets examine the definition of trolls (from the Ubuntu Forums)

 

Definition (1)

 

An "Internet troll" or "Forum Troll" is a person who posts outrageous message to bait people to answer. Trolls delight in sowing discord on the forums. A troll is someone who inspires flaming rhetoric, someone who is purposely provoking and pulling people into flaming discussion. Flaming discussions usually end with name calling and a flame war.

 

A classic troll tries to make us believe that he is a skeptic. He is divisive and argumentative with need-to-be-right attitude, "searching for the truth", flaming discussion, and sometimes insulting people or provoking people to insult him. A troll is usually an expert in reusing the same words of its opponents and in turning it against them.

 

While he tries to present himself as a skeptic looking for truth ... his messages usually sound as if it is the responsibility of other forum members to provide evidence that what forum is all about is legitimate.

 

He (and in at least 90% of cases it is he) tries to start arguments and upset people.

 

Sometimes, he is skeptical, trying to scare people, trying to plant fear in their hearts. Sometimes, Internet troll is trying to spin conflicting information, is questioning in an insincere manner, flaming discussion, insulting people, turning people against each other, harassing forum members, ignoring warnings from forum moderators.

 

Trolling is a form of harassment that can take over a discussion. Well meaning defenders can create chaos by responding to trolls. The best response is to ignore it, or to report a message to a forum moderator. Ubuntuforums moderators usually move troll messages to the jail and may even ban trolls after a few unheeded warnings. Negative emotions stirred up by trolls leak over into other discussions. Normally affable people can become bitter after reading an angry interchange between a troll and his victims, and this can poison previously friendly interactions between long-time users.

 

Finally, trolls create a paranoid environment, such that a casual criticism by a new arrival can elicit a ferocious and inappropriate backlash.

 

When trolls are completely ignored they sometimes step up their attacks, desperately seeking the attention they crave. Their messages become more and more foul, and they post ever more of them. Alternatively, they may protest that their right to free speech is being curtailed. Perhaps the most difficult challenge for a moderator is deciding whether to take steps against a troll that a few people find entertaining. Some trolls do have a creative spark and have chosen to squander it on being disruptive. There is a certain perverse pleasure in watching some of them. Ultimately, though, we have to decide if the troll actually cares about putting on a good show for the regular participants, or is simply playing to an audience of one -- himself. For this reason the staff here often intervene, either with a warning in a thread, jailing one or more posts, sending private messages to offenders, and even banning people--temporarily or permanently--from these forums.

 

As an idea, the next time you see a post by somebody whom you think is a troll, and you feel you must reply, maybe you could just write a follow-up message in the thread entitled "Troll Alert" and type something like this:

Quote:

The only way to deal with trolls is to limit your reaction and not to respond to trolling messages. It is well known that most people don't read messages that nobody responds to, while 99% of forum visitors first read the longest and the largest threads with the most answers.

 

Trolls try to disrupt or change [forums and discussion groups] to fit their own agendas.

 

What can I do? (2)

 

Don't feed the troll: don't let someone get your goat. You can respond, but don't let it be from a place of frustration. If someone's deliberately out to make you frustrated, don't give in. Take a walk. Have someone else read your response. Get some perspective: it's only the internet after all.

 

Don't overreact: are you reading more than you need to into something someone wrote about you? Again, ask a friend or colleague for advice - sometimes, emotion can color your reaction. I told someone the other day that "I wish there was a sarcasm font for the internet." Is there a possibility that it's not them, it's you?

 

Don't underreact: if someone is threatening the peace of your online community, don't feel DRAMATIC by asking them to cut it out. A well-timed, personal email can help mend fences with a community, and doesn't embarrass anyone in public. Asking some people to tone down their conversation works, but the best way to deal with someone who's upset? Find out what they're really trying to say. A symptom of troll-like behavior can be an overblown public comment, but the real cause is often that someone simply doesn't feel listened to.

 

Don't take it personally: some people are just out to be mean/vindictive/bitter. These are your real trolls.You'll know them when you see them: like a bad penny, they always turn up.

 

They often use techniques as: (3)

 

* flooding by excessive posting

* attacking regulars in a group

* attempting to divide and conquer

* making themselves the savior of the group

* trying to impress others with their knowledge

* threatening people (overtly or with subtlety)

* spreading rumors

* violating [forum or discussion group] policy, [or getting as close to violating without CLEARLY violating them]

* posting under multiple aliases

* disguising their [thread titles and] headers

* [questioning moderation techniques or moderation level]

 

Trolls often have serious personal issues that lead them to try to control others.

 

Trolls don't hang around in [forums and discussion groups] where people don't respond to their rants.

 

The best way to deal with trolls is to IGNORE them.

 

_____________________________________________________________

 

LOL

 

Now who does the internet troll identity fit on here then? i can think of about three definite ones!

[Thedelldays]

name names

 

I would go for...

 

Davebensonphillips

Thedelldays

Dune

[fish fingers]

The Football Manager nerd, he spends all day trawling the board correcting peoples mistakes.

 

* trying to impress others with their knowledge

[Wes Tender]

"A classic troll tries to make us believe that he is a skeptic. He is divisive and argumentative with need-to-be-right attitude, "searching for the truth", flaming discussion, and sometimes insulting people or provoking people to insult him. A troll is usually an expert in reusing the same words of its opponents and in turning it against them."

 

CB Fry. Classic symptoms. To avoid this accusation, he really ought to be more circumspect in his postings.

[Pancake]

Lounge?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Really?

[saint_stevo]

The Football Manager nerd, he spends all day trawling the board correcting peoples mistakes.

 

* trying to impress others with their knowledge

 

This

[Thedelldays]

* flooding by excessive posting

* attacking regulars in a group

* attempting to divide and conquer

* making themselves the savior of the group

* trying to impress others with their knowledge

* threatening people (overtly or with subtlety)

* spreading rumors

* violating [forum or discussion group] policy, [or getting as close to violating without CLEARLY violating them]

* posting under multiple aliases

* disguising their [thread titles and] headers

 

 

wow.....hmmmmmmm

[alpine_saint]

Now who does the internet troll identity fit on here then? i can think of about three definite ones!

 

Well considering the whining yet abusive PM I got from you this week, clearly I am one of the three you are referring to.

 

I feel sorry for you that you simply cannot accept that someone says something for genuine reasons with genuine emotion when it offends you...

[hypochondriac]

name names

 

I would go for...

 

Davebensonphillips

Thedelldays

Dune

 

TDD

Alpine

 

Can't really think of many more.

[Thedelldays]

TDD

Alpine

 

Can't really think of many more.

look in the mirror then

[alpine_saint]

* flooding by excessive posting- guilty

* attacking regulars in a group - largely not guilty, though couple of posters nark me

* attempting to divide and conquer - not guilty

* making themselves the savior of the group - not guilty

* trying to impress others with their knowledge - not aware of it

* threatening people (overtly or with subtlety) - not guilty

* spreading rumors - not guilty

* violating [forum or discussion group] policy, [or getting as close to violating without CLEARLY violating them] - Occasionally guilty

* posting under multiple aliases - not guilty

* disguising their [thread titles and] headers - not guilty

* [questioning moderation techniques or moderation level] - Occasionally guilty

 

Per definition I am not a troll

[Hatch]

Hatch does not know what this is about

[Joensuu]

name names

I would go for...

Davebensonphillips

Thedelldays

Dune

Spot on. Although, you have calmed down a lot from thedelldays of 2 years ago, so much so you have probably dropped from the loft heights of 'troll'. The other two must surely have accumulated hundreds of infractions, but yet bizarrely still get to post and in so doing destroy virtually every thread on here. Just like Heskey must have had some dirt on the FA which kept him in an England shirt, I can only assume that these two trolls know something which they are bribing the admins with. Otherwise, why hasn't their racism, sexism, violence fixation, and homophobia been stomped out, with lifetime bans? It's not as if their IP isn't known, or their posting style neutral enough to allow them hide under a different moniker for more than a week.

Well considering the whining yet abusive PM I got from you this week, clearly I am one of the three you are referring to.

I feel sorry for you that you simply cannot accept that someone says something for genuine reasons with genuine emotion when it offends you...

As genuine as your intentions are Alpine, even you must be able to see, that your continuous negativity rubs a lot of people up the wrong way. I don't know how you manage to see the downside in everything, but even when you hear positive news, you seem to find a hypothetical negative to focus on. You come across a bit like a spin-doctor in reverse, like Alistair Campbell dosed up on Diazepam. I feel sorry for you if your 'genuine emotion' is so consistently negative, it must be like living with a permanent headache. When this headache is broadcast over the various threads on this board, it merely serves to aggravate other members. And, when you annoy others on't interweb, you cease being a poster, and have become a troll.

[IamLeGod]

Alpine Im sorry but you just are. Credit to TDD he admitted he is. Anyone with over 7,000 posts is - seriously get some sun on your skin

[alpine_saint]

Spot on. Although, you have calmed down a lot from thedelldays of 2 years ago, so much so you have probably dropped from the loft heights of 'troll'. The other two must surely have accumulated hundreds of infractions, but yet bizarrely still get to post and in so doing destroy virtually every thread on here. Just like Heskey must have had some dirt on the FA which kept him in an England shirt, I can only assume that these two trolls know something which they are bribing the admins with. Otherwise, why hasn't their racism, sexism, violence fixation, and homophobia been stomped out, with lifetime bans? It's not as if their IP isn't known, or their posting style neutral enough to allow them hide under a different moniker for more than a week.

As genuine as your intentions are Alpine, even you must be able to see, that your continuous negativity rubs a lot of people up the wrong way. I don't know how you manage to see the downside in everything, but even when you hear positive news, you seem to find a hypothetical negative to focus on. You come across a bit like a spin-doctor in reverse, like Alistair Campbell dosed up on Diazepam. I feel sorry for you if your 'genuine emotion' is so consistently negative, it must be like living with a permanent headache. When this headache is broadcast over the various threads on this board, it merely serves to aggravate other members. And, when you annoy others on't interweb, you cease being a poster, and have become a troll.

 

You might consider me to be a negative miserable sod, but I am NOT a troll. I have never sought to aggravate others.

[Foxstone]

Alpine Im sorry but you just are. Credit to TDD he admitted he is. Anyone with over 7,000 posts is - seriously get some sun on your skin

 

Just to jump in here, I totally disagree with your assertion.

 

Trolls are generally inconsistent amongst all the other points that TDD has listed and Alpine is anything but that.

 

I regard him as wholly genuine unlike others on here like Dune and SRS who clearly love to wind up.

[buctootim]

You might consider me to be a negative miserable sod, but I am NOT a troll. I have never sought to aggravate others.

 

This is true imo.

[saint_stevo]

Alpine Im sorry but you just are. Credit to TDD he admitted he is. Anyone with over 7,000 posts is - seriously get some sun on your skin

 

I am not a troll.

 

I make this forum what it is

[Joensuu]

You might consider me to be a negative miserable sod, but I am NOT a troll. I have never sought to aggravate others.

 

Last post of the day for me...

 

 

 

Alps, I don’t think trolling is necessarily intentional. You demonstrate several of the key symptoms.

• More than 5 posts a day - check ( 9.8 )
  
• Consistantly take a different opinion from the majority - check
  
• Consistantly annoy other posters (however well intentioned your views) - check
  

Sure you don't seem to flame, or deceive, but even you must acknowledge that you have the knack of rubbing other posters up the wrong way. I call this trolling, you might not agree with that assessment. Sure you're not actively malicious, like the StuBensonSaints or Stanley's this world, but surely you must recognise, that your tendancy to annoy is not a positive trait?

 

Let me step you through a few example scenarios:

 

Scenario A: 'New young player signs from lower divsion, rated by former club'

SWF concensus: 'lets see how he develops, and give him time'

Alpine's view: 'Why are we wasting money on unproven players, is he going to be good enough for the Championship?'

 

Scenario B: 'No signings for first week of transfer window'

SWF concensus: 'plenty of time, don't want to rush into the wrong deal, don't panic yet'

Alpine's view: 'Need more action sooner. Won't be ready for season. Missing out on talent'

 

Scenario C: 'Team draw away on a field of mud'

SWF concensus: 'Rather annoyed, but these things happen. Team will bounce back.'

Alpine's view: 'Awful. Even Brighton won their 2 months ago. Should have made more signings.'

 

Scenario D: 'Major upgrade to stadium/training/backroom staff'

SWF concensus: 'Good news. Right direction. Moving forward'

Alpine's view: 'Why are we wasting money on this and not on first team'

 

Scenario E: 'Team trailing by one goal at half time'

SWF concensus: 'Hope this gets better. We can create more.'

Alpine's view: 'Sky has collapsed. Manager must be ousted. Players should be burnt at stakes etc'*

 

*okay, a bit of an exageration...

 

Scenario F: 'Team win 4 nil way'

SWF concensus: 'Who's for a pint?'

Alpine's view: ....... [has anyone seen Alpine? Wonder where he is today] ...

 

 

Can you see how frustrating this is for other people? It's all so predicatable, so negative, so reactive. Sure it's not deliberately goading, or nasty, but it is repeative and consistantly OTT. Whether you are honest enough to recognise your own trolling or not, is neither here nor there, the fact is, most posters on this forum would consider you to be a classic example of a troll.

 

BTW, I'll put my hands up to feeding the trolls on the political threads. I simply can't sit back and read diatribe that makes Thatcher look a bit too wooly and liberal, without letting the intolerances to go unchallenged. Who thought training meat-heads how to type would be a good thing?

[Viking Warrior]

Alpine

 

Im not biting . The PM wasnt that abusive. just my thoughts at one to many of your negative post once I had one too many sherberts

 

As usual you only show one side of the equation. but as PM's are meant to be that I will keep them off the forum.

 

Oh and do you not recall I agreed with your sentiments about paul Wootton or has that passed you by.

 

X

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Spot on. Although, you have calmed down a lot from thedelldays of 2 years ago, so much so you have probably dropped from the loft heights of 'troll'. The other two must surely have accumulated hundreds of infractions, but yet bizarrely still get to post and in so doing destroy virtually every thread on here. Just like Heskey must have had some dirt on the FA which kept him in an England shirt, I can only assume that these two trolls know something which they are bribing the admins with. Otherwise, why hasn't their racism, sexism, violence fixation, and homophobia been stomped out, with lifetime bans? It's not as if their IP isn't known, or their posting style neutral enough to allow them hide under a different moniker for more than a week.

As genuine as your intentions are Alpine, even you must be able to see, that your continuous negativity rubs a lot of people up the wrong way. I don't know how you manage to see the downside in everything, but even when you hear positive news, you seem to find a hypothetical negative to focus on. You come across a bit like a spin-doctor in reverse, like Alistair Campbell dosed up on Diazepam. I feel sorry for you if your 'genuine emotion' is so consistently negative, it must be like living with a permanent headache. When this headache is broadcast over the various threads on this board, it merely serves to aggravate other members. And, when you annoy others on't interweb, you cease being a poster, and have become a troll.

 

A very interesting observation. Not something I have not considered, in increasing amounts, of late.

[alpine_saint]

Last post of the day for me...

 

 

 

Alps, I don’t think trolling is necessarily intentional. You demonstrate several of the key symptoms.

• More than 5 posts a day - check ( 9.8 )
  
• Consistantly take a different opinion from the majority - check
  
• Consistantly annoy other posters (however well intentioned your views) - check
  

Sure you don't seem to flame, or deceive, but even you must acknowledge that you have the knack of rubbing other posters up the wrong way. I call this trolling, you might not agree with that assessment. Sure you're not actively malicious, like the StuBensonSaints or Stanley's this world, but surely you must recognise, that your tendancy to annoy is not a positive trait?

 

Let me step you through a few example scenarios:

 

Scenario A: 'New young player signs from lower divsion, rated by former club'

SWF concensus: 'lets see how he develops, and give him time'

Alpine's view: 'Why are we wasting money on unproven players, is he going to be good enough for the Championship?'

 

Scenario B: 'No signings for first week of transfer window'

SWF concensus: 'plenty of time, don't want to rush into the wrong deal, don't panic yet'

Alpine's view: 'Need more action sooner. Won't be ready for season. Missing out on talent'

 

Scenario C: 'Team draw away on a field of mud'

SWF concensus: 'Rather annoyed, but these things happen. Team will bounce back.'

Alpine's view: 'Awful. Even Brighton won their 2 months ago. Should have made more signings.'

 

Scenario D: 'Major upgrade to stadium/training/backroom staff'

SWF concensus: 'Good news. Right direction. Moving forward'

Alpine's view: 'Why are we wasting money on this and not on first team'

 

Scenario E: 'Team trailing by one goal at half time'

SWF concensus: 'Hope this gets better. We can create more.'

Alpine's view: 'Sky has collapsed. Manager must be ousted. Players should be burnt at stakes etc'*

 

*okay, a bit of an exageration...

 

Scenario F: 'Team win 4 nil way'

SWF concensus: 'Who's for a pint?'

Alpine's view: ....... [has anyone seen Alpine? Wonder where he is today] ...

 

 

Can you see how frustrating this is for other people? It's all so predicatable, so negative, so reactive. Sure it's not deliberately goading, or nasty, but it is repeative and consistantly OTT. Whether you are honest enough to recognise your own trolling or not, is neither here nor there, the fact is, most posters on this forum would consider you to be a classic example of a troll.

 

BTW, I'll put my hands up to feeding the trolls on the political threads. I simply can't sit back and read diatribe that makes Thatcher look a bit too wooly and liberal, without letting the intolerances to go unchallenged. Who thought training meat-heads how to type would be a good thing?

 

I found some of your post amusing and I would lie if I said I didnt see snippets of me in there (though Scenario E is completely OTT and Scenario F is a myth any you are bandwagon-jumping).

 

However, for me, a troll is someone maliciously trying to hurt or disturb others. I have no mailicious intent.

 

However, if you want to call me an unintentional troll, I can live with that. But it isnt what I would call trolling...

[Colinjb]

IHowever, if you want to call me an unintentional troll, I can live with that. But it isnt what I would call trolling...

 

Sorry Alpine, I agree with you on some occasions but the consistency of negativity does class you as an unintentional troll. There are a lot worse on the forum though and there are rare occasions your glass half empty attitude can provoke some moments of cold realisation.

[Smirking_Saint]

 

However, for me, a troll is someone maliciously trying to hurt or disturb others. I have no mailicious intent.

 

However, if you want to call me an unintentional troll, I can live with that. But it isnt what I would call trolling...

 

Can agree with that, TBF you have an opinion, everyone is entitled to one, i don't always share it but TBF i don't think you post just to p*ss people off and i don't think anyone can say don't post because it p*sses them off.

 

You do go a but OTT with the multiple threads on the same sorta thing sometimes though, and you did get the sharp end from me in a few threads lately, mostly because i have been pretty p*ssed off with the negative negative negative this pre-season (though it has been pretty uninspiring)

[OttawaSaint]

Forum would be a bit boring if everyone agreed though.

 

Scenario A:

Player signs from a lower club

poster 1: Let's give him time

poster 2: I agree

poster 3: me too

poster 4: +1

poster 5: You have nice thighs poster 3

poster 6: Zzzzzzzz

[Smirking_Saint]

Forum would be a bit boring if everyone agreed though.

 

Scenario A:

Player signs from a lower club

poster 1: Let's give him time

poster 2: I agree

poster 3: me too

poster 4: +1

poster 5: You have nice thighs poster 3

poster 6: Zzzzzzzz

 

I agree

[Ponty]

Lounge?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Really?

No, not really.

[Smirking_Saint]

Add Ponty to the trolling list

[hamster]

If someone genuinely does have a jocular, lighthearted and generally positive side to their personality AND a more serious, (some might say) cynical, deep-thinking side to them, I can't see a problem.

 

Mors people have split personalities than would admit to it, not that it is a crime of course.

 

I can't give an example of course as I am the most level-headed person with no personality flaws that you are likely to meet on here. I cannot speak for my alter-ego as he is currently tucked up in his padded cell.

 

Seriously, I canot be the only one here who does the old two finger 'log-off, log-on (Jekyll/Hyde)' manouvre every now and then when I want to tell someone what i really think of them and their vitriol? Surely!

[Colinjb]

If someone genuinely does have a jocular, lighthearted and generally positive side to their personality AND a more serious, (some might say) cynical, deep-thinking side to them, I can't see a problem.

 

Mors people have split personalities than would admit to it, not that it is a crime of course.

 

I can't give an example of course as I am the most level-headed person with no personality flaws that you are likely to meet on here. I cannot speak for my alter-ego as he is currently tucked up in his padded cell.

 

Seriously, I canot be the only one here who does the old two finger 'log-off, log-on (Jekyll/Hyde)' manouvre every now and then when I want to tell someone what i really think of them and their vitriol? Surely!

 

That's the thing, it's when the whole rounded side of a personality is lost and opinions/agendas become focused that posters appear to become Troll like.

[Guest Dark Sotonic Mills]

Alps, have you considered that your somewhat dichotomous posting may be down to the simple fact that you are unable to watch the team live at SMS and you get frustrated at the apparent lack of passion etc. I know that I get very frustrated and negative when I listen to a dire performance on the radio or on-line, but am a lot more accepting and understanding if I can view in real time what is happening on the pitch.