NickG Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 Exactly, that's the problem. Is the club now being run soley as a business with no consideration to its supporters? It certainly seems that way. Even when you take some of the gestures that the club have done ( no sponsor, 125 year kit, offering to steward extra allocation at Wembley ) etc, it is clear to see that the decisions where commercial and ones which the club would MAKE money on, as opposed to losing it. The long term will be that the football fans will walk away, some may might not come back. These fans will be replaced by Corporate clients, which is all very well when you are in the Premiership, but when you drop down again, that's when things start going wrong and the core fans you used to rely on have found something else to do on a Saturday afternoon. whilst I have some concerns, you point is somewhat undermined, since you first made it, by the fact that season tickets have risen
John B Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 I personnaly think his complaint would have had more legs if he had pointed out he had followed the procedure, and showed the whole club to be rotten to the core, rather than give the impression that 'I demand to speak to David Luker directly. Do you not know who I am' because to me and a lot on here, he gives that impression. Despite repeated e mailed requests to various members of senior management at the club and attempts to speak to them on the phone I again have received no reason for this happening or until yesterday anyone who would actually acknowledge my correspondence Seems reasonable I would have thought that someone senior at the club had made the decision
solentstars Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 There are some truly staggering responses to this thread and lets just hope this nothing more than an administrive error, because if this is true then a part of SFC truly did die last year. Firstly the ones who spout "NI" isn't the voice of the fans and doesn't speak for me blah blah blah you are right and neither does he confess to, but like sheep, you all assume that he says the opposite and I think you will find he has tried to pass the "spokesman" batton on a number of times. I have not always agreed with his personal views on Saints and was never interested in joining the trust, but for those of you that find yourselves up north for a midweek game in the ****ing rain, if there is one other Saints fan you are likely to meet it's him. He doesn't need people sticking up for him and just as well, based on the responses of moronic, uneductaed, self centred idiots, that shamefully call themselves Saints fans......he's one of us FFS i agree their are to many i,m all right jack types , the way the club have behaved to a fellow saints fan and those who were going to purchase season tickets on a payment plan, withdrawn without any notice smacks of contempt for its customers.
manji Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 I have been struggling to work why , when we are in the middle of the most optimistic and settled close season for years,there is a small cabal of anti-Cortese types trying to rock the boat. Then I realised,these self-serving idiots do NOT want Saints to succeed. They want Southampton to be a small unsuccesful parochial club. They can then wheedle thier way in with jobs "club historian" or "fanontheboard" for example or if that doesn't work attention seeking "open letters" , incessant interviews to local press or Sky, protest marches , open meetings with out of work desperate ex-Saints or a resurrected Saints Trust gaining profitable membership due to the failures of the club. Before you dismiss this as fantasy just look at how many of the cabal are left-wing trade union types spouting fantastical nonsense about Southampton being a Barcelona type peoples run club. Lefty schitt-stirrers hate nothing more than stability and success. Long live Southampton Football Club as a successful , professional and profitable football club.
NickG Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 So have I. And I am sure Southampton FC will realise they need The Echo more than The Echo need them. The Echo only have to come online to find some news to print, they can buy pictures of freelancers and still interview players or re-hash others. What the Echo can do is sway the feeling of the majority of fans through their storys away from the uber-fan bubble of this forum. sorry don't mean to pick on your posts but this is wrong. Echo circulation is worryingly down - particularly effected by saints - a saints or exclusive is the biggest normal boost to their sales. The echo very much need saints and I was told that the direct impact of the recent dispute was talk of redundancies - very worrying. Meanwhile saints sales are up. The could totally do without echo
Thedelldays Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 i agree their are to many i,m all right jack types , the way the club have behaved to a fellow saints fan and those who were going to purchase season tickets on a payment plan, withdrawn without any notice smacks of contempt for its customers. maybe....im sure there are plenty that are just plain tired of crap like this...nothing more nothing less..and for once in a long time can smell relative success for saints and want to see how this little episode in our history plays out....
Secret Site Agent Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 (edited) Course you would, course you would. As would the majority of people on this forum as well. Of course. Wow. You really have a massive ego. This is the way I have dealt with BT,EDF,EA, HA, Virgin Media, BSKYB, The MOD, British Airways, The Royal Household, Southampton City Council, Barking and Dagenham Council, Fleet Services and Hampshire Constabulary. I mention these as I have in the past had an issue of complaint with each and every one of them, and I have followed the complaints procedure. This being in spite of the other reason I mention them is that I know 'Senior Management' in each of these organisations and HAVE NEVER rung them up to complain. This includes Ben Verwaayen, Former Head of BT, Paul Kernahan, Former Chief Constable of Hampshire, Lord Blackwell and little Nadeem at Fleet services. I never went straight to them, and never needed to. Probably because I am not that arrogant or assuming that they have nothing better to do than sort out something not in their area of responsibility, just because I am too lazy or big headed to be a normal joe. It was always sorted out, eventually. And how shocking to moral of your staff that a senior manager interferes in your job because you assume he thinks you are incapable of sorting out a single season ticket. You would be the first one to scream about this. Nick Illingsworth is just a normal joe now, like the rest of us. He needs to get used to it. him and his trust are a spent force, it seems and now the management I really believe just don't care about him or them any more. Edited 27 July, 2010 by Secret Site Agent
carljack Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 Great stuff! Illingsworth is an arsehole who ripped off his "own kind" he cant even speak properly for himself let alone the remainder of the supporters,time to move on Nick and just support the team and let the Proffesionals who are now at St Marys get on with it.
Smirking_Saint Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 (edited) I never said he HAD, I said that he never said he HADN'T spoken to the Ticket Office grunt. So why has he not said he has contacted the ticket office ?? Which should be the first call of any complaint to do with tickets ?? Now answer me this, if and when you have an issue with tickets have you/will you spoken to the grunt on the front desk or do you head straight for Luker ( senior management ) ? I would phone the ticket office, and ask about my issue, if they couldn't answer my question well enough i would then go to the next port of call, i would do this as i woulnd't want some self important no mark phoneing me up with an issue that frankly someone with less important things to do can answer. Yes, I think I proved beyond doubt they were lieing, because it was hardly half-arsed Googling when I spoke to the very people that administrate the installment plan and done research to prove that EVERY SINGLE CLUB of our size or larger has one ( including clubs like Man Utd and Chelsea who really don't need one to fill their stadiums ) . Are you really that far stuck up Cortese's arse to not understand that if there was a significant cost to it, then clubs wouldn't offer it... especially clubs who could sell out their stadiums without the need for one? Not really proven did you ?? You found out one side of the story, we never found out the other side, and lets be frank, why should they have to explain their actions to a single person with an issue ? If you phoned me up and asked why i turned your lights off i would respond by saying because it was what i deemed necessary. If you told me i couldn't do that i would tell you that you were ill informed and if you told me that i could have done it another way i would respond by saying that i have planned the job that way and that i have argueably more experience doing the job then you. As for every other club, it's up to them, it is a privalage and many clubs (not us) need the money upfront, i feel for the fans that lost out, i really do, but the real issue was the lack of communication not the removal of a what is a convenience So you are now saying that a customer that has been paying by installments for the last 7 years, shouldn't phone up and ask for an explanation when the facility has been removed with no notice to the fans? Yes In one sentance you have truelly shown your arrogance. Yawn Yawn indeed Stu Edited 27 July, 2010 by Smirking_Saint
Gemmel Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 Yawn indeed Stu I think your comments would be more valid on another thread and perhaps your contribution to this one deleted???
Smirking_Saint Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 Wow. You really have a massive ego. This is the way I have dealt with BT,EDF,EA, HA, Virgin Media, BSKYB, The MOD, British Airways, The Royal Household, Southampton City Council, Barking and Dagenham Council, Fleet Services and Hampshire Constabulary. I mention these as I have in the past had an issue of complaint with each and every one of them, and I have followed the complaints procedure. This being in spite of the other reason I mention them is that I know 'Senior Management' in each of these organisations and HAVE NEVER rung them up to complain. This includes Ben Verwaayen, Former Head of BT, Paul Kernahan, Former Chief Constable of Hampshire, Lord Blackwell and little Nadeem at Fleet services. I never went straight to them, and never needed to. Probably because I am not that arrogant or assuming that they have nothing better to do than sort out something not in their area of responsibility, just because I am too lazy or big headed to be a normal joe. It was always sorted out, eventually. And how shocking to moral of your staff that a senior manager interferes in your job because you assume he thinks you are incapable of sorting out a single season ticket. You would be the first one to scream about this. Nick Illingsworth is just a normal joe now, like the rest of us. He needs to get used to it. him and his trust are a spent force, it seems and now the management I really believe just don't care about him or them any more. Agree completely The arrogance is astounding
Saint-Fred Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 I have been struggling to work why , when we are in the middle of the most optimistic and settled close season for years,there is a small cabal of anti-Cortese types trying to rock the boat. Then I realised,these self-serving idiots do NOT want Saints to succeed. They want Southampton to be a small unsuccesful parochial club. They can then wheedle thier way in with jobs "club historian" or "fanontheboard" for example or if that doesn't work attention seeking "open letters" , incessant interviews to local press or Sky, protest marches , open meetings with out of work desperate ex-Saints or a resurrected Saints Trust gaining profitable membership due to the failures of the club. Before you dismiss this as fantasy just look at how many of the cabal are left-wing trade union types spouting fantastical nonsense about Southampton being a Barcelona type peoples run club. Lefty schitt-stirrers hate nothing more than stability and success. Long live Southampton Football Club as a successful , professional and profitable football club. +1 I can't understand why there is so much negativity on this board.. No one will ever agree with everyone of NC's decisions but at the end of the day he runs the club and for every moaner there are a thousand who like what he is doing to our club!
Smirking_Saint Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 I think your comments would be more valid on another thread and perhaps your contribution to this one deleted??? In what respect ?
Gemmel Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 In what respect ? Check the David Luker thread and then re-read what you have posted on here. Hypocrisy doesn't come close to covering it.
Dave Benson Phillips Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 In what respect ? Well you seem to have such an issue with people contacting senior management. Head of Supporters Service David Luker for example. How's about jumping over to this thread... http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?15368-David-Luker-s-Email ... and explaining that. Oh dear...
for_heaven's_Saint Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 I have been struggling to work why , when we are in the middle of the most optimistic and settled close season for years,there is a small cabal of anti-Cortese types trying to rock the boat. Then I realised,these self-serving idiots do NOT want Saints to succeed. They want Southampton to be a small unsuccesful parochial club. They can then wheedle thier way in with jobs "club historian" or "fanontheboard" for example or if that doesn't work attention seeking "open letters" , incessant interviews to local press or Sky, protest marches , open meetings with out of work desperate ex-Saints or a resurrected Saints Trust gaining profitable membership due to the failures of the club. Before you dismiss this as fantasy just look at how many of the cabal are left-wing trade union types spouting fantastical nonsense about Southampton being a Barcelona type peoples run club. Lefty schitt-stirrers hate nothing more than stability and success. Long live Southampton Football Club as a successful , professional and profitable football club. Exactly.
John B Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 Wow. You really have a massive ego. This is the way I have dealt with BT,EDF,EA, HA, Virgin Media, BSKYB, The MOD, British Airways, The Royal Household, Southampton City Council, Barking and Dagenham Council, Fleet Services and Hampshire Constabulary. I mention these as I have in the past had an issue of complaint with each and every one of them, and I have followed the complaints procedure. This being in spite of the other reason I mention them is that I know 'Senior Management' in each of these organisations and HAVE NEVER rung them up to complain. This includes Ben Verwaayen, Former Head of BT, Paul Kernahan, Former Chief Constable of Hampshire, Lord Blackwell and little Nadeem at Fleet services. I never went straight to them, and never needed to. Probably because I am not that arrogant or assuming that they have nothing better to do than sort out something not in their area of responsibility, just because I am too lazy or big headed to be a normal joe. It was always sorted out, eventually. And how shocking to moral of your staff that a senior manager interferes in your job because you assume he thinks you are incapable of sorting out a single season ticket. You would be the first one to scream about this. Nick Illingsworth is just a normal joe now, like the rest of us. He needs to get used to it. him and his trust are a spent force, it seems and now the management I really believe just don't care about him or them any more. So what would you do if you could not buy a season ticket after following the Saints for 40 years By the way talking to the monkey never works you need to speak to the organ grinder
NickG Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 clearly more to this, clash of two ego? One with power and influence one with...
kpturner Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 So what would you do if you could not buy a season ticket after following the Saints for 40 years By the way talking to the monkey never works you need to speak to the organ grinderI'd get someone who hates football to buy one, reimburse them the dosh, and use the ticket myself....perhaps?
Dave Benson Phillips Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 So what would you do if you could not buy a season ticket after following the Saints for 40 years By the way talking to the monkey never works you need to speak to the organ grinder Exactly, when you have a problem with a £400 transaction, who in their right mind would specifically ask to speak to the monkey on the front desk when it is absolutely nailed on that he will simply pass it on to the manager. They wouldn't... if I complain in whatever I do, I ask them once and once only on the front of house, then ask for it to be passed up.
Dave Benson Phillips Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 I'd get someone who hates football to buy one, reimburse them the dosh, and use the ticket myself....perhaps? Would you email a manager or follow the chain of command and speak to a grunt on the front desk?
John B Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 I'd get someone who hates football to buy one, reimburse them the dosh, and use the ticket myself....perhaps? Your not just a pretty face
Smirking_Saint Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 Well you seem to have such an issue with people contacting senior management. Head of Supporters Service David Luker for example. How's about jumping over to this thread... http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?15368-David-Luker-s-Email ... and explaining that. Oh dear... hmm, and like i said in the above 'slagging off post' i would ask the person on the front desk first and if they couldn't answer my question 'then' i would persue it, So whats your point breaker here ??
Thedelldays Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 when I have a problem with my virgin media..I will now email richard branson himself...the long hair **** better respond
docker-p Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 Yet again Cortese shows himself to be class 'A' tosser. And yet again the same old Fundamentalist übber fans, who believe that to critisise anything the club does is close to treason, defend this petty little man.
70's Mike Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 i really hope this is a mistake because what happens next all those who get upset if we lose the first 2 home games , get banned
Gemmel Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 when I have a problem with my virgin media..I will now email richard branson himself...the long hair **** better respond Good idea, thats exactly what a relative did and got a handwritten response from the man himself. A year later the company lawyers were still pursing it and he sent them a copy of the letter
Smirking_Saint Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 Check the David Luker thread and then re-read what you have posted on here. Hypocrisy doesn't come close to covering it. Not really, my main body of text still counts, i don't know what you do but if you were in a management position i would imagine it would somewhat get your goat that someone from the outside with little to no experience in what you are trying to achieve is questioning how you went about what you were doing and calling you a liar . As for the apparant hypocritical points, they still stand, i would always phone the front desk first and not jump straight into senior management, also, Luker is not what i would call a senior manager, more of a line manager or team manager IMO.
Dave Benson Phillips Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 Not really, my main body of text still counts, i don't know what you do but if you were in a management position i would imagine it would somewhat get your goat that someone from the outside with little to no experience in what you are trying to achieve is questioning how you went about what you were doing and calling you a liar . As for the apparant hypocritical points, they still stand, i would always phone the front desk first and not jump straight into senior management, also, Luker is not what i would call a senior manager, more of a line manager or team manager IMO. He is Head of Supporters Services. Senior Management. Backtrack all you want, you knocked people for speaking to management when you start a thread asking for a direct email for one of the senior managers. Hypocrisy at its finest.
John Smith Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 And............... Here we go again. My God I can;t wait until the 7th rolls around! So, what is it this time? Some bloke doesn;t get a season ticket. Nobody knows why and are all assuming that this bloke has done nothing wrong and that NC has singled him out. Well, why would NC single out someone that has done nothing at all out of a pool of 13000? Are we saying that I would've been refused a ST if my name had been pulled out of the hat? Don;t get that. Stu wrote several letters/emails to the club regarding the payments scheme, has he also been denied his ST? What about the thousands of supposed other complaints about the withdrawal of the installments, have they also been denied a ST? This is silly season, some silly bloke, acted silly, a silly response has been actioned, and now a silly thread has been raised, discusing this silly 'incident' and some silly posters are back on their silly boxes. Personally, I think Saints will have a tough opener against Plymouth, a draw would be a good start to the season, but here's hoping for a win.
Smirking_Saint Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 He is Head of Supporters Services. Senior Management. Backtrack all you want, you knocked people for speaking to management when you start a thread asking for a direct email for one of the senior managers. Hypocrisy at its finest. It could be hypocrisy, or it could be just ignoring the point, something that you have constantly slagged others for, so what would that be then ?? Oh yes, that would be hypocritical wouldn't it ?? Typical though Stu, you can't actually carry out a proper arguement and look at things objectively so you fall back into character assault, pretty cheap and unitelligent tactic that. Unfortunately i have to admit i am wrong again, SRS isn't actually the misinterpretted poster i thought he was, he just likes the look at me angle.
Junction 9 Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 I often wonder if there are any clubs in this country, or inded the world that has fans such as ours. We are on the brink of going out of existence and thankfully, luckily a Swiss billionaire decides to rescue us. Many said it was Cortese who finally convinded him to invest. A year or so down the line after one of the most entertaining seasons I've seen and a trip to Wembley, we bicker like this. A ball hasn't even been kicked yet but the club isn't being run to some peoples exacting standards. Apparantley they "deserve" to be treated better. Well F*CK them. If this football club isn't good enough for you the way it's being run at the monent then it never will be. I just hope Cortese doesn't read this forum and pass the views on to Markus, if I was in his shoes I'd never have got involved in a club with the most bitter and ungrateful fans you could meet.
kpturner Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 Would you email a manager or follow the chain of command and speak to a grunt on the front desk? Well, since I know he responds, I would email Dave Luker directly. That would not be the norm for me with all issues with other companies though - I would only get to that point when the normal route is proving to be a waste of time.
Dave Benson Phillips Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 Well, since I know he responds, I would email Dave Luker directly. That would not be the norm for me with all issues with other companies though - I would only get to that point when the normal route is proving to be a waste of time. A football club is not the 'norm' though. I admire your honesty though, I had a link to a couple of posts you made about emailing Luker directly ready to go. Good work. xx
Smirking_Saint Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 A football club is not the 'norm' though. I admire your honesty though, I had a link to a couple of posts you made about emailing Luker directly ready to go. Good work. xx Yeah, but when he argued back you would have probably been stumped though eh ?? Lol
dune Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 Yet again Cortese shows himself to be class 'A' tosser. And yet again the same old Fundamentalist übber fans, who believe that to critisise anything the club does is close to treason, defend this petty little man. This.
dune Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 If I was Nick Illingsworth I would contact the organ grinder (Markus Liebherr) and not the monkey (Nicola Cortese). To be refused a season ticket for exercising his right to free speech is disgraceful.
GenevaSaint Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 Yet again Cortese shows himself to be class 'A' tosser. And yet again the same old Fundamentalist übber fans, who believe that to critisise anything the club does is close to treason, defend this petty little man. And you know the whole story do you docker? Had a 1-2-1 with Cortese have we? While on the surface of it, this sounds dodgy, we don't know the whole story now do we?
dune Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 I just hope Cortese doesn't read this forum and pass the views on to Markus, if I was in his shoes I'd never have got involved in a club with the most bitter and ungrateful fans you could meet. I hope Mr Liebherr does read this forum because Cortese needs reigning in before he does any more damage.
kpturner Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 If I was Nick Illingsworth I would contact the organ grinder (Markus Liebherr) and not the monkey (Nicola Cortese). To be refused a season ticket for exercising his right to free speech is disgraceful.I suspect that would be easier said than done though, and even if it was possible I very much doubt ML would do anything other than let his man decide what is best rather than interfere. That is how it appears to me anyway. The rights and wrongs of such a ban can be argued all day, but if the owner gives an individual the power to do whatever he wants, then the test of us have to like it or lump it.
NickG Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 hate this damage of building division favourites, going to Wembley, winning trophy and increasing season ticket sales - what a mess bet Liebherr regrets that one!
Thedelldays Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 I love the way people have decided the reasons for all this...lol nope, no agenda here what so ever..
dune Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 hate this damage of building division favourites, going to Wembley, winning trophy and increasing season ticket sales - what a mess bet Liebherr regrets that one! These things can be achieved without the petty feuds. The Echo ban and now the way Nick has been treated is pathetic.
aintforever Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 If Cortese has banned Illingsworth from having a Season Ticket (and it wouldn't surprise me) then he is a complete c*nt, I can't believe anyone would defend the decision.
dune Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 I suspect that would be easier said than done though, and even if it was possible I very much doubt ML would do anything other than let his man decide what is best rather than interfere. That is how it appears to me anyway. The rights and wrongs of such a ban can be argued all day, but if the owner gives an individual the power to do whatever he wants, then the test of us have to like it or lump it. If it was me i'd email all of markus Liebherrs other companies and one of messages (at least) would get back to him. ML might not act, but a seed would be planted and if and when NC acts disgracefully again ML would have see the pattern developing.
Dave Benson Phillips Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 If Cortese has banned Illingsworth from having a Season Ticket (and it wouldn't surprise me) then he is a complete c*nt, I can't believe anyone would defend the decision. They would though, unfortunately this forum seems to attract the sort of people that wouldn't probably p!ss on a Saints fan if they were on fire. No loyalty towards fellow Saints whatsoever, luckily when it comes down to it, these people are in the minority in the real world. Unfortunately though, through hidden usernames, these people like to blindly defend the club to the hilt. Smirking is a great example of this. It's no coincidence whatsoever that the majority of people who don't see the problems with Cortese don't have experience of SFC at customer level, living away from Southampton, sometimes in another country, with only a few actually having a season ticket. I guess you can see why they wouldn't be bothered and why all they care about is the results on the pitch. I think their views would be different if they had more involvement with SFC though.
lenwilkins Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 If Cortese has banned Illingsworth from having a Season Ticket (and it wouldn't surprise me) then he is a complete c*nt, I can't believe anyone would defend the decision. I can't either - or rather I couldn't until I read some of the rather sad and twisted comments on this thread.
Thedelldays Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 so, has cortese actually stopped nick from having a season ticket..?
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 27 July, 2010 Posted 27 July, 2010 The bloke's head is so far up his own arse it's unbelievable. It p*sses me off no end when I see his face on the tv or in the paper, claiming he speaks for the fans. The bloke's a d!ck who thinks he has more right to go to the games, speak to the management or organise events than anyone else. I really couldn't care less if he can't go to games, if he didn't feel the need to try to be a busy-body local celebrity all the time it wouldn't have happened. When this happens to a normal fan, I'll care. Nick Illingsworth is our John PFC W******d. For comments as strident and condemning as yours, I assume you have met him? I assume you have heard him claim he speaks for all fans?
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