trousers Posted 30 July, 2010 Posted 30 July, 2010 why were your mum and Michael Winner arguing? His plums were over ripe
Daren W Posted 30 July, 2010 Posted 30 July, 2010 Sometimes, you post good points. Sometimes you seem to have suffered a humour bypass. The reason I chose "swaythling" for example, was it make it a self-effacing comment, ergo humour. There were plenty of districts I could have chosen. I dont get your argument about half-season tickets at all. NC has (correctly) calculated that with a strong prospect of promotion, combined with no half-season ticket, he would sell more full season tickets. Also, he secures the club more revenue to spend on players and infrastructure in advance without an installment plan, without any additional costs. It aint f**king rocket science... I;m not going to argue with you Alpine but if you're going to accuse me of having a sense of humour bypass then please make sure we can all see you're being "funny". I see nothing funny about a swipe at sections of the fanbase on lower incomes. Every comment you've made on installments mentions whether or not they can afford a season ticket which quite frankly is none of your business. If people go without something else so as to afford football that's their choice. If they expect and indeed have been promised, two different ways to pay, then that should be upheld. Sorry but when you're talking about things being "rocket science" please tell us all what the difference is between a whole season ticket and a half one??? Installment plans aside why was the half season ticket abolished when the only people it will affect are the ones on a lower income. It'll get more people to buy full ones? Erm, no it won't.. I know of dozens of people who have not renewed because the club gave them two months to find nearly £400 Another thing you've said that annoyed the crap out of me was telling people they should "prioritise" and that because they might be on a lower income perhaps they shouldn't even think about season tickets... People are annoyed because they were promising in the ****ing fans charter!!!!!!!! You seem to conveniently forget the club made a promise, broke it and then claimed that it was "last season's promise" I'm not going to argue with you on this but think of the people this affects before commenting...
hypochondriac Posted 30 July, 2010 Author Posted 30 July, 2010 But that's how human beings typically debate stuff and form opinions. It's perfectly reasonable for someone to form different opinions of the same scenario depending on who the subject matter is. For example, if I heard that Michael Winner had been chucked out of a restaurant for complaining my opinion of the situation would be different had it been my mother being thrown out of the restaurant even though the 'scenario' was broadly the same. It's quite often the perceived way someone goes about the same task not the task or scenario itself that shapes observational opinions. It's human nature to form opinions with an element of bias. Doesn't make it right of course but that's how we've evolved as a species. Charles Darwin, April 1874 p.s. Before I get jumped on, none of the above pre-supposes my opinion of the situation raised in the OP. Just purely observational twaddle If I hear that any saints fan is refused a season ticket for expressing their opinion (which in my view is pretty obviously the reason for it) then I'm going to think there is something wrong. The fact it is Nick doesn't come into it.
alpine_saint Posted 30 July, 2010 Posted 30 July, 2010 I;m not going to argue with you Alpine but if you're going to accuse me of having a sense of humour bypass then please make sure we can all see you're being "funny". I see nothing funny about a swipe at sections of the fanbase on lower incomes. Every comment you've made on installments mentions whether or not they can afford a season ticket which quite frankly is none of your business. If people go without something else so as to afford football that's their choice. If they expect and indeed have been promised, two different ways to pay, then that should be upheld. Sorry but when you're talking about things being "rocket science" please tell us all what the difference is between a whole season ticket and a half one??? Installment plans aside why was the half season ticket abolished when the only people it will affect are the ones on a lower income. It'll get more people to buy full ones? Erm, no it won't.. I know of dozens of people who have not renewed because the club gave them two months to find nearly £400 Another thing you've said that annoyed the crap out of me was telling people they should "prioritise" and that because they might be on a lower income perhaps they shouldn't even think about season tickets... People are annoyed because they were promising in the ****ing fans charter!!!!!!!! You seem to conveniently forget the club made a promise, broke it and then claimed that it was "last season's promise" I'm not going to argue with you on this but think of the people this affects before commenting... OK Daren, you dont want to argue, but I want to make a couple of points about your post - its up to you if you want to respond further. I have a family, and that costs a lot of money. If I cannot afford something, I have to make a decision to prioritise. The people complainng so vocally on this site about the installment plan withdrawal and the resulting ability to afford an ST has made it ALL of our businesses. No-one held back from calling me a fat bastard because I complained that I cannot get the home kit in XXL or XXXL at this time. I didnt say low-income people should not think about season tickets, I said those who cannot afford a season ticket should consider if there is something else that is a higher priority for their limited resources. If it was last seasons promise, it was last seasons promise. I dont get the point you are trying to make. NC and ML came in and rejuvenated our club, surely you must have realised that this comes at a price and not everything would stay the same ? I think we should be so grateful that so little has changed. No one was complaining about the cheap offers for kids last season, I note.
up and away Posted 30 July, 2010 Posted 30 July, 2010 OK Daren, you dont want to argue, but I want to make a couple of points about your post - its up to you if you want to respond further. I have a family, and that costs a lot of money. If I cannot afford something, I have to make a decision to prioritise. The people complainng so vocally on this site about the installment plan withdrawal and the resulting ability to afford an ST has made it ALL of our businesses. No-one held back from calling me a fat bastard because I complained that I cannot get the home kit in XXL or XXXL at this time. I didnt say low-income people should not think about season tickets, I said those who cannot afford a season ticket should consider if there is something else that is a higher priority for their limited resources. If it was last seasons promise, it was last seasons promise. I dont get the point you are trying to make. NC and ML came in and rejuvenated our club, surely you must have realised that this comes at a price and not everything would stay the same ? I think we should be so grateful that so little has changed. No one was complaining about the cheap offers for kids last season, I note. I am not completely happy with the shelving of the instalment plan, but with all the alternatives available today (some even free), your pov makes a lot of sense. It's not as if they can't get to games this season, just not the same amount. Then add on to that they could be in good position next season to get a season ticket without the need of an instalment plan. Is it really that much of an issue in the grand scheme of things? For any normal club, it's the finances which would be the hardest hit, but we have that luxury.
saint_mears Posted 30 July, 2010 Posted 30 July, 2010 It really is pathetic some people arguing about Nick. If a saints fan has had their season ticket money returned to them because the people in charge don't agree with them then personally I think that is a disgrace. Of course I cannot be certain that this is the case but in my opinion it seems the likeliest reason. By all means refrain from commenting if you wish until you hear all the facts, but to say you don't care just because it is Nick is very sad and also totally misses the point. Totally agree
John B Posted 30 July, 2010 Posted 30 July, 2010 If I hear that any saints fan is refused a season ticket for expressing their opinion (which in my view is pretty obviously the reason for it) then I'm going to think there is something wrong. The fact it is Nick doesn't come into it. It is a good job that Lowe never adaopted these tactics otherwise there would have been a virtually empty stadium for most of the season:x:x
NickG Posted 30 July, 2010 Posted 30 July, 2010 only if we were losing, most fans don't care about board just the team - rightly so
Norm Posted 30 July, 2010 Posted 30 July, 2010 i before e except after c I'm sure the thread was in desperate need of that important input.
Gorgiesaint Posted 30 July, 2010 Posted 30 July, 2010 It really is pathetic some people arguing about Nick. If a saints fan has had their season ticket money returned to them because the people in charge don't agree with them then personally I think that is a disgrace. Of course I cannot be certain that this is the case but in my opinion it seems the likeliest reason. By all means refrain from commenting if you wish until you hear all the facts, but to say you don't care just because it is Nick is very sad and also totally misses the point. Just read the quotes attributed to Nick taken from the Ugly website on the Trust AGM thread, and if that is the whole story then it is a concern.
70's Mike Posted 30 July, 2010 Posted 30 July, 2010 Heard to day that NC had a list of all those on here who had complained about the beer and they will be refused admittance at the turnstile unless they pledge allegiance to Carlsberg
hypochondriac Posted 30 July, 2010 Author Posted 30 July, 2010 Heard to day that NC had a list of all those on here who had complained about the beer and they will be refused admittance at the turnstile unless they pledge allegiance to Carlsberg See why take the p*ss? I don't really find it particularly funny.
Norm Posted 30 July, 2010 Posted 30 July, 2010 My thoughts, and my argumant exactly. I've always liked you, benji. Love is in the air!
Norm Posted 30 July, 2010 Posted 30 July, 2010 Again, why should anyone blindly defend Cortese? We all know that no one knows the truth behind all of this but until the club actually tells Nick if he's allowed a season ticket or not then we have no choice but to accept one side of the argument. You can't say "Well we only know one side of the story" when the other side apparently refuses to speak... It's amazing that people on here can slag off people for alledgedly "blindly hating Cortese" whilst blindly accepting everything he does... Like it or not the club's decision to withdraw Half season tickets and installment plans at no notice, after promising they would be kept, was wrong and it affected a sizeable section of the fanbase. Just because it didn't affect some doesn't make it right. Cortese has made some mistakes but at the moment they are outweighed by the things he's done right but don't sit there saying we shouldn't blindly accept one side when so many people have done just that... on both sides of the fence. FWIW If the banning order is because of the Silverspoons fiasco then ok, I can understand it. If it's because of Nick's opinions on ticketing matters etc then that's unbelievably wrong. All those people currently turning a blind eye, ask yourself if it happens to you would you expect people to sympathise? If you do then perhaps you should all look at your comments on Nick. Just because you don't like him doesn't make the clubs (alledged) actions right.. Dare I write it but I agree with the above.
hypochondriac Posted 30 July, 2010 Author Posted 30 July, 2010 Just so people know, from Nick: All those people that contacted the company (of which I am part) responsible for Silverspoons have to my knowledge recieved a reply. If they have contacted me directly then they have also recieved a reply personally from me I am told that this week on the Saints web someone has been boasting about launching legal action, four months after the event. If he has not had a reply then if someone would care to direct him over here then i will answer his queries.
Smirking_Saint Posted 30 July, 2010 Posted 30 July, 2010 He could post here himself. He's very welcome. He knows he is king of the mountain over there
Norm Posted 30 July, 2010 Posted 30 July, 2010 He could post here himself. He's very welcome. Oh Ponty! I never did believe what the others said, I just knew you had a 'soft' side.
up and away Posted 30 July, 2010 Posted 30 July, 2010 Originally Posted by Thedelldays maybe they have told him why but he wont disclose it as it may embarrass him..? we dont know True. Anyway, as I've perviously said I'm well beyond where I'd like to be without the full facts, and I'm sure they'll come out eventually. I don't know any definite facts, but it would not surprise me that Nick would play this low key and not start a direct confrontation, it's just not his style. What would not surprise me if Nick sent a direct email to Mali, in effect going over the top of Cortese because of a lack of response. I could also see that Cortese would take this as a personal attack and responded accordingly. In this sort of situation I am not 100% clear which side I would come down on. The reaction from Cortese looks over the top and should have been bypassed earlier, but if he views this as a personal attack with the design to get him the sack, there is a pov there. Unless either of them come out in public on this, most of us will never know. I don't believe either will do so and I hope it gets resolved before the start of the season, where both find an accaptable medium.
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 30 July, 2010 Posted 30 July, 2010 He could post here himself. He's very welcome. Is he really ? As many on here seem utterly convinced that Nick Illingsworth is forever claiming to publicly represent the views of 'all' Saints fans I strongly suspect he would be made to feel very unwelcome . If any of the multitude who have expressed that view would kindly produced the evidence to support this assertion (we seem to have suddenly developed a fanatical level of interest in evidential certainty in this thread) then I for one would be interested to see it . Meanwhile as we wait for the actual evidence of Nick Illingsworth appalling behavior to be produced I shall continue to suspect that a large part of the hostility directed at Illingsworth on here is based on little more than pure jealousy .
NickG Posted 30 July, 2010 Posted 30 July, 2010 Meanwhile as we wait for the actual evidence of Nicola Cortesse's appalling behavior to be produced I shall continue to suspect that a large part of the hostility directed at Cortesse on here is based on little more than pure jealousy . could equally apply.
Thedelldays Posted 30 July, 2010 Posted 30 July, 2010 Meanwhile as we wait for the actual evidence of Nick Illingsworth appalling behavior to be produced I shall continue to suspect that a large part of the hostility directed at Illingsworth on here is based on little more than pure jealousy . and your thoughts against cortese without knowing the facts are...............................?
NickG Posted 30 July, 2010 Posted 30 July, 2010 Is he really ? As many on here seem utterly convinced that Nick Illingsworth is forever claiming to publicly represent the views of 'all' Saints fans I strongly suspect he would be made to feel very unwelcome . If any of the multitude who have expressed that view would kindly produced the evidence to support this assertion (we seem to have suddenly developed a fanatical level of interest in evidential certainty in this thread) then I for one would be interested to see it . Meanwhile as we wait for the actual evidence of Nick Illingsworth appalling behavior to be produced I shall continue to suspect that a large part of the hostility directed at Illingsworth on here is based on little more than pure jealousy . I don't have a problem with him, he clearly enjoys the media and likes being interviewed - a lot of people do, why shouldn't he comment if asked?
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 30 July, 2010 Posted 30 July, 2010 and your thoughts against cortese without knowing the facts are...............................? I can only form an opinion on what we do know . What we do know is that a fan has had his ST renewal rejected (how often does that happen?) a matter of days after publicly criticizing an aspect of club policy . Its an interesting question whether these two facts may just be connected in some way . Other interesting questions include 'is the Pope catholic & do bears sh1t in the woods ?
Thedelldays Posted 30 July, 2010 Posted 30 July, 2010 I can only form an opinion on what we do know . What we do know is that a fan has had his ST renewal rejected (how often does that happen?) a matter of days after publicly criticizing an aspect of club policy . Its an interesting question whether these two facts may just be connected in some way . Other interesting questions include 'is the Pope catholic & do bears sh1t in the woods ?and you know cortese did this personally because................................................?
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 30 July, 2010 Posted 30 July, 2010 and you know cortese did this personally because................................................? I don't 'know it - I (strongly) suspect it . Please don't tell be you have never engaged in speculation or formed an opinion on only the evidence you actually have available .
NickG Posted 30 July, 2010 Posted 30 July, 2010 I don't 'know it - I (strongly) suspect it . Please don't tell be you have never engaged in speculation or formed an opinion on only the evidence you actually have available . its is all speculation at mo - although does sound strange. Clearly more to this story than we currently know
hypochondriac Posted 30 July, 2010 Author Posted 30 July, 2010 I don't 'know it - I (strongly) suspect it . Please don't tell be you have never engaged in speculation or formed an opinion on only the evidence you actually have available . Either it was how you described it or it is a massive massive coincidence.
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 30 July, 2010 Posted 30 July, 2010 Either it was how you described it or it is a massive massive coincidence. "In this universe there are no coincidences and there are no accidents . Nothing happens unless someone wills it to happen" . William S. Burroughs
SaintBobby Posted 30 July, 2010 Posted 30 July, 2010 Im not boasting about taking legal action. I am taking legal action. He is welcome to PM me - he has not replied to my emails to saints trust...nor has anyone else.
hypochondriac Posted 30 July, 2010 Author Posted 30 July, 2010 If you actually take legal action against Nick because of this then you are a gigantic loser. Seriously weird as well.
SaintBobby Posted 31 July, 2010 Posted 31 July, 2010 If you actually take legal action against Nick because of this then you are a gigantic loser. Seriously weird as well. Because Saints Trust took in £20,000 of income for an event that was nothing like they advertised? The lack of contrition - and failure to reply to emails after months makes it much worse. People shouldnt be allowed to get away with that.
hypochondriac Posted 31 July, 2010 Author Posted 31 July, 2010 Because Saints Trust took in £20,000 of income for an event that was nothing like they advertised? The lack of contrition - and failure to reply to emails after months makes it much worse. People shouldnt be allowed to get away with that. Nick says he has communicated with people who requested it. Clearly they has been a miscommunication somewhere. Thankfully he has offered to talk with you to sort it out. I trust you will be getting in contact with him and sorting it out?
SaintBobby Posted 31 July, 2010 Posted 31 July, 2010 Nick says he has communicated with people who requested it. Clearly they has been a miscommunication somewhere. Thankfully he has offered to talk with you to sort it out. I trust you will be getting in contact with him and sorting it out? If you want to PM me or tell me an email address where he or Saints Trust actually reply from, that would be great. Or he can PM me here direct. I have emailed Saints Trust already to try and sort this out.
Smirking_Saint Posted 31 July, 2010 Posted 31 July, 2010 "In this universe there are no coincidences and there are no accidents . Nothing happens unless someone wills it to happen" . William S. Burroughs Are you saying god did it ?
dune Posted 31 July, 2010 Posted 31 July, 2010 Is he really ? As many on here seem utterly convinced that Nick Illingsworth is forever claiming to publicly represent the views of 'all' Saints fans I strongly suspect he would be made to feel very unwelcome. Probably and i'd certainly have something to say about the Trust which died many moons ago yet he pretends it is still an entity.
Eastcowzer Posted 31 July, 2010 Posted 31 July, 2010 Probably and i'd certainly have something to say about the Trust which died many moons ago yet he pretends it is still an entity. I'm sure this is all a misunderstanding as N.Illingsworth, Esq, has been refused as a ticket as he will not need one, as he will have been granted a season-long guest pass to the Directors box. This will allow him to concentrate on his comprehensive media work for BBC Solent and South Today, and the occasional appearance on Meridian, (Fred Dinenage permitting), and on other national broadcasting channels, as a completely independent spokesperson for SFC, on 'The Nick-Nic' show
wagon 84 Posted 31 July, 2010 Posted 31 July, 2010 If I hear that any saints fan is refused a season ticket for expressing their opinion (which in my view is pretty obviously the reason for it) then I'm going to think there is something wrong. The fact it is Nick doesn't come into it. Your right hypo, but some people are to just to thick to see your point!
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 31 July, 2010 Posted 31 July, 2010 Are you saying god did it ? Yes . Acting on divine inspiration Hypochondriac and myself have secretly fabricated this whole sorry business in an attempt to overthrow Nicola Cortese (we see him as Satan's little helper) and seize control of the club . We intended to install Nick Illingsworth as Chairman and impose a strict puritanical regime on the club which would have entailed a complete ban on Sunday football and the abolition of concourse beer sells . If it wasn't for your acute observational skills and giant intellect we would have gotten away with our dastardly plot . Damn you pesky kids !!!!!!!!
Wes Tender Posted 31 July, 2010 Posted 31 July, 2010 Your right hypo, but some people are to just to thick to see your point! Not at all. It's really easy to label others who do not agree with an opinion as thick, isn't it, at the same time puffing up your own ego because your opinion must by implication be intelligent. But as Hypochondriac's statement contains the word "if," the hint that it is an opinion shown by his "which in my view" and the jumping to conclusions with his "pretty obvious", then there is plenty of scope for accommodating alternative views without being labelled thick for holding them.
John B Posted 31 July, 2010 Posted 31 July, 2010 Not at all. It's really easy to label others who do not agree with an opinion as thick, isn't it, at the same time puffing up your own ego because your opinion must by implication be intelligent. But as Hypochondriac's statement contains the word "if," the hint that it is an opinion shown by his "which in my view" and the jumping to conclusions with his "pretty obvious", then there is plenty of scope for accommodating alternative views without being labelled thick for holding them. I fully agree with your post anybody can have what ever opinions they like But perhaps some opinions could be classed as stupid. Like Anthony Pulis is a great and skillfull footballer and possibly NI was banned from being a season ticket holder for someother season than he complained about the lack of installments for Season Ticket Holdersn
Wes Tender Posted 31 July, 2010 Posted 31 July, 2010 I fully agree with your post anybody can have what ever opinions they like But perhaps some opinions could be classed as stupid. Like Anthony Pulis is a great and skillfull footballer and possibly NI was banned from being a season ticket holder for someother season than he complained about the lack of installments for Season Ticket Holdersn Be careful, John; CB Fry would call that a 6th form analogy. The case regarding Anthony Pulis is conclusive that he is not a great and skillfull player, or he would have been playing at a much higher level than this. The other matter is not open and shut, therefore those holding contrary opinions or not wishing to jump to conclusions cannot be labelled as stupid. Circumspect, cautious, reticent maybe. Stupid or thick, I don't think so.
Redondo Saint Posted 31 July, 2010 Posted 31 July, 2010 and when the football club was hours from being extinguished, where was the city then? Exactly. Some people seem to think SFC should be a loss making business for the benefit of fans!! Who should pick up the losses - City tax payers? I don't think so. Certain fans need to get over themselves and understand SFC is not a charity.
Ozkeith2 Posted 31 July, 2010 Posted 31 July, 2010 I've not read all of the previous 18 pages of this thread, I live on the other side of the planet and I know who Nick is but he probably doesn't know me. So I admit I don't understand the politics. But i do know that Nick's a lifelong Saints fan who's probably spend tens of thousand of pounds over the years following the Saints, and therefore, unless there's some legitimate safety or legal (eg:threatening behaviour, indecent exposure, etc, etc) reason to deny him entry to St Mary's he should not be denied entry. It's a civil liberty issue. I'd be mortified if they told me I couldn't support my team. Nick must be suicidal.
rocknrollman no2 Posted 31 July, 2010 Posted 31 July, 2010 If Nick has been banned from owning a ST,does anyone know if hes also banned from buying a single ticket for each match ?
VectisSaint Posted 31 July, 2010 Posted 31 July, 2010 I can only form an opinion on what we do know . What we do know is that a fan has had his ST renewal rejected (how often does that happen?) a matter of days after publicly criticizing an aspect of club policy . Do we even know what you allege are facts? From the original post "Shortly after the season ticket deadline I noticed that my money had been refunded by the club". This does not say his renewal has been rejected, it could for other reasons, was his money actually taken initially, did he fill in his renewal form correctly, did his application miss the deadline, who knows? And who knows whether his emails and phone calls have been ignored, perhaps they have not even been sent. It does all seem a little strange, but some people seem to be more than willing to treat every word uttered by Illingsworth as fact, while having no eveidence, and every word uttered in defence of SFC or NC as lies, untruths or the work of Satan. Get a grip, NI is an outspoken critic of SFC, he puts himself in the spotlight and should not be surprised if he makes enemies and is not welcome at St Marys. I doubt that he would be refused a ticket if he tried to buy one for a match, unless he has been made the subject of a banning order, and in any case he could presumably get one of his mates (?) to buy one on his behalf. This is a non-story about a self-publicist who enjoys the limelight and is upset when the tables are turned on him. I wish him no ill-will (I really wouldn't know him from Adam, although vaguely recall his lame interviews on TV) but really he reaps what he sows.
VectisSaint Posted 31 July, 2010 Posted 31 July, 2010 But i do know that Nick's a lifelong Saints fan who's probably spend tens of thousand of pounds over the years following the Saints, and therefore, unless there's some legitimate safety or legal (eg:threatening behaviour, indecent exposure, etc, etc) reason to deny him entry to St Mary's he should not be denied entry. It's a civil liberty issue. I'd be mortified if they told me I couldn't support my team. Nick must be suicidal. You are leaping to conclusions. Nowhere is there a single mention that he has been banned from St Marys. In fact there is nothing to say his season ticket renewal was rejected, read the original post, only that moneys were allegedly refunded (if they were ever taken in the first place).
hypochondriac Posted 31 July, 2010 Author Posted 31 July, 2010 Not at all. It's really easy to label others who do not agree with an opinion as thick, isn't it, at the same time puffing up your own ego because your opinion must by implication be intelligent. But as Hypochondriac's statement contains the word "if," the hint that it is an opinion shown by his "which in my view" and the jumping to conclusions with his "pretty obvious", then there is plenty of scope for accommodating alternative views without being labelled thick for holding them. Come on Wes, we all know the reason Nick's money has been returned to him, its the same reason the Echo are banned from SMS. I can't believe someone could think otherwise.
hypochondriac Posted 31 July, 2010 Author Posted 31 July, 2010 If Nick has been banned from owning a ST,does anyone know if hes also banned from buying a single ticket for each match ? I suppose he will find out. Even if he isn't it's still out of order IMO, especially if he gets no explanation.
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