landford.saint Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 As far as I can tell the facts are..... NI has for some reason had his ST application returned, and according to NI his attempts to get a response from the club have brought no reply. As far as I can see there are no other facts, just supposition, inferences, and personal opinions based on that persons views (whether biased or considered). And this has run to 13 pages? The season start can't come soon enough.
Ponty Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 Tell you what, Dave, no one here's been more vocally anti-Cortese than you so why don't you buy a season ticket. If you aren't permitted one then you prove a point and if you are you can give it to Illingsworth. It's win/win for you.
Dave Benson Phillips Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 Who the hell knows? Certainly not you, me or anybody here. A quick Google keyword search doesn't throw up any other incidents like this. So I would suggest it's certainly not 'common' .
ohwhenthesaints Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 A quick Google keyword search doesn't throw up any other incidents like this. So I would suggest it's certainly not 'common' . Or people don't give a flying **** when it does happen.
Dave Benson Phillips Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 Or people don't give a flying **** when it does happen. I am pretty sure that anyone who had their season ticket taken off them for simply saying bad things about their respective club would find the time to have a moan on a forum somewhere, even if it didn't make the local rag.
kpturner Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 13 page jizz-fest...... Is this a record?LOL - probably not, but worth pointing out :-)
St Chalet Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 As far as I can tell the facts are..... NI has for some reason had his ST application returned, and according to NI his attempts to get a response from the club have brought no reply. As far as I can see there are no other facts, just supposition, inferences, and personal opinions based on that persons views (whether biased or considered). And this has run to 13 pages? The season start can't come soon enough. Thank you for saving me the trouble of having to read it all!
NickG Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 We are talking about free speech and tolerance on this thread something you seem not to agree with. just find it strange, its quiet pre-season and not much football going on (hence looking at this thread which can also be quite entertaining as it gets more bizarre!) but strange that seem some have no view on how we are playing, the squad make up, new signings, season performance predictions etc - infact anything to do with football!
LA77 Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 I am pretty sure that anyone who had their season ticket taken off them for simply saying bad things about their respective club would find the time to have a moan on a forum somewhere, even if it didn't make the local rag. Is that the reason then? If so, yes it is pathetic. Surely if he walks up to the ticket office window and asks "can you let me know why my ST has been refunded?" they would have to tell him to his face.
derry Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 I would have thought the easy solution for him is to get somebody else to order a ticket in the area he wants to sit. That way nobody is any the wiser. As for Nick Illingsworth, I have had quite a few face to face chats with him, nothing to do with Saints Trust, he lives quite near, and I've found him easy to chat with and a decent person.
chocco boxo Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 Hope he gets his ticket and hope Saints romp the league and this year is all about the football , so no press/media need to contact any fans spokesperson etc!
Stanley Saint Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 It's interesting what goes on. A friend of mine is a sports journalist and a Leeds fan. He wrote something for a national paper that gently suggested that a certain Leeds chairman wasn't the world's most altruistic individual. A day later he had this chairman on the phone telling him never to set foot in Elland Road again. I think they all go a bit power mad, and some don't have far to go...
alpine_saint Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 F**k me, is this still going ? Nick must be well chuffed.
Sour Mash Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 I don't disagree with that but our resident pet neo-nazi is off on one comparing NC to Mussolini and SRS assumes, as per his way, that he is right, regardless of not know the facts. I find myself indifferent at best regarding NC but was VERY pi**ed off when the installment plan was pulled but I'll not be joining any lynch mob until I know the facts of the matter. Is there a lynch mob? I can't see that here. I know you don't like SRS or Dune, I can see how they might wind people up, but if you see past that, there is a genuine issue to be discussed here. It probably has been blown a bit out of proportion, but the reason I've posted so much on this thread is not the rights and wrongs of NI or even the rights or wrongs of him having his season ticket revoked, but the apparent excitement some Saints fans seem to show at the chance to show their "who cares" "sod him" "doesn't effect me" attitude.
NickG Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 Is there a lynch mob? I can't see that here. I know you don't like SRS or Dune, I can see how they might wind people up, but if you see past that, there is a genuine issue to be discussed here. It probably has been blown a bit out of proportion, but the reason I've posted so much on this thread is not the rights and wrongs of NI or even the rights or wrongs of him having his season ticket revoked, but the apparent excitement some Saints fans seem to show at the chance to show their "who cares" "sod him" "doesn't effect me" attitude. think thats why people react to Stu, not so much disagreeing with the issue but because he blows everything out of proportion and when they say this, he gets rude forgetting they may have agreed with his initial point.
StVince1966 Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 Nick if this rumour is correct and youve got your money refunded can you then give me back my tenner from that silverspoons fiasco if youre abit flush?
Dave Benson Phillips Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 just find it strange, its quiet pre-season and not much football going on (hence looking at this thread which can also be quite entertaining as it gets more bizarre!) but strange that seem some have no view on how we are playing, the squad make up, new signings, season performance predictions etc - infact anything to do with football! Doesn't really interest me to be honest, no major signings, pretty below par pre-season with below par results. I will start getting excited on the morning of the Plymouth game. Excuse me if I don't spend my pre-season creaming myself waiting for the new season to start. I've never bothered to talk much football on here in the 6 or so years I have been registered on forums... doesn't interest me. Nothing to do with Cortese, I just prefer to talk about football politics on here or take the p!ss out of people, my decision... so there. Oh noes, what a cr@ppy fan I am.
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 How profoundly depressing it is that so many on here seem to care not a jot about the principle of free speech or even the fate of a fellow Saints fan . This reminds me of the time when MLT admitted he had attempted to commit a betting fraud and many of the same names told us that this didn't matter because - when it comes down to it - they didn't actually give a toss about the concept of integrity in sport either . I sometimes wonder where exactly some of you are prepared to draw the line - if at all .....
Smirking_Saint Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 The problem is that without any communication about FACTS from the club, then we are left to come to our own conclusions. Many people seem to think that if the club don't bother to give an explanation, then that means there must be a totally reasonable explanation for their actions. The FACT is they deliberately haven't bothered making any explanations about any of their actions in the last few months, some people may have the attitude of " oh well, until the club gives me an explanation, I won't know them " , but many people, including myself think that the club needs to start explaining its actions. True but that doesn't necersarily mean there is any real menace or the need for all the conspiracy boll*cks that seems to be being made up left right and center either. IMO stuff like the removal of the payment plan etc, although there SHOULD have been a warning about it, the club doesn't have a right to publically explain its reasons for its removal. It is a business and is being run as such, as i said before to, we are unlike many other clubs in the fact that we don't need the ST money up front. As for this NI episode, i think he has himself to blame, IMO. As you say, it probably isn't an admin issue with the way this has all panned out, but we don't know for definate that it isn't so we can't start calling NC 'propa nawty'. Equally the way into which NI constantly stands completely out of the parapit and has an opinion on everything saints without actually being in an organisation that means anything at all will innevitably put him in the sights of Cortese, and he has done enough to p*ss off a man who probably has a short temper, i mean he was publically opinionated about Cortese, we don't know what happened when NC asked them to remove the club crest etc from the site but he may well of chucked some toys around ? The Silverspoons fiasco, which, IMO probably wasn't all his fault but make yourself a figurehead and thats what you get.
NickG Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 Doesn't really interest me to be honest, no major signings, pretty below par pre-season with below par results. I will start getting excited on the morning of the Plymouth game. Excuse me if I don't spend my pre-season creaming myself waiting for the new season to start. I've never bothered to talk much football on here in the 6 or so years I have been registered on forums... doesn't interest me. Nothing to do with Cortese, I just prefer to talk about football politics on here or take the p!ss out of people, my decision... so there. Oh noes, what a cr@ppy fan I am. no such thing as crappy fan -each to their own.
Gorgiesaint Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 (edited) As far as I can tell the facts are..... NI has for some reason had his ST application returned, and according to NI his attempts to get a response from the club have brought no reply. As far as I can see there are no other facts, just supposition, inferences, and personal opinions based on that persons views (whether biased or considered). And this has run to 13 pages? The season start can't come soon enough. Would agree with that although I would add that if he was responsible for the Silverspoons issue & still owes people money like.... Nick if this rumour is correct and youve got your money refunded can you then give me back my tenner from that silverspoons fiasco if youre abit flush? ... then I would suggest (& pure supposition on my part) that maybe the club does not want anything to do with someone who appears to be ripping off fellow Saints fans whilst supposedly representing them through the Saints Trust. If that is the case, and I said if, then if I were in NI's shoes then I would be slightly more worried about the fact that I appeared to rip off some fellow Saints fans and try to sort that out rather than be whinging that the club won't sell him a season ticket. Maybe I'm wrong but I think the priorities are slightly out of kilter here. Edited 28 July, 2010 by Gorgiesaint
LA77 Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 How profoundly depressing it is that so many on here seem to care not a jot about the principle of free speech or even the fate of a fellow Saints fan . This reminds me of the time when MLT admitted he had attempted to commit a betting fraud and many of the same names told us that this didn't matter because - when it comes down to it - they didn't actually give a toss about the concept of integrity in sport either . I sometimes wonder where exactly some of you are prepared to draw the line - if at all ..... What has the Tiss betting thing got to do with this? Atleast he had the balls to come out and put it in his book, and admitted he was wrong.
SparkySaint Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 FACT most of those are sensible decisions that affect the average fan not one jot. Agreed. If the Ted Bates Statue had come down then we would have had an issue but that will never happen
Smirking_Saint Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 How profoundly depressing it is that so many on here seem to care not a jot about the principle of free speech or even the fate of a fellow Saints fan . This reminds me of the time when MLT admitted he had attempted to commit a betting fraud and many of the same names told us that this didn't matter because - when it comes down to it - they didn't actually give a toss about the concept of integrity in sport either . I sometimes wonder where exactly some of you are prepared to draw the line - if at all ..... Not this sh*te again. Why should i blindly defend ANYONE ?? Let alone just because they are a saints fan, without knowing all of the issues, if a Saints fan commited murder, do i still accept it ? Because he is a saints fan ? Thats crap. I feel sorry for him, i really do but in the cold light of day we don't know the reasons behind it and there is ALWAYS a reason. I can't see NC just engaging in some sort of scattergun bannings. As for free speech, thats a ton of crap as well, where does it end ? If a terrorist is actively calling on people to kill the english in this country should they be let off ? Do holocaust deniers get let off because of free speech ?? So If i was outside my gym, calling it sh*t to anyone that would listen, write blogs about it, contact the paper and slag it off, call the manager a w*nker would you not expect me to be politely told to get stuffed ?? Get a grip
LA77 Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 Agreed. If the Ted Bates Statue had come down then we would have had an issue but that will never happen I think a lot of fans were not happy that the original one got pulled down.
Micky Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 Is that the reason then? If so, yes it is pathetic. Surely if he walks up to the ticket office window and asks "can you let me know why my ST has been refunded?" they would have to tell him to his face. Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo - welcome to the fast (well relatively slow actually) expanding TDD & Micky club....!!!
LA77 Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo - welcome to the fast (well relatively slow actually) expanding TDD & Micky club....!!! I can't be bothered to read 14 pages of this, so I'm not sure what you're on about. I take it you've mentioned this earlier? Why doesn't illingsworth do that, then post up what happened? Or is that too simple
LA77 Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 Not this sh*te again. Why should i blindly defend ANYONE ?? Let alone just because they are a saints fan, without knowing all of the issues, if a Saints fan commited murder, do i still accept it ? Because he is a saints fan ? Thats crap. I feel sorry for him, i really do but in the cold light of day we don't know the reasons behind it and there is ALWAYS a reason. I can't see NC just engaging in some sort of scattergun bannings. As for free speech, thats a ton of crap as well, where does it end ? If a terrorist is actively calling on people to kill the english in this country should they be let off ? Do holocaust deniers get let off because of free speech ?? So If i was outside my gym, calling it sh*t to anyone that would listen, write blogs about it, contact the paper and slag it off, call the manager a w*nker would you not expect me to be politely told to get stuffed ?? Get a grip I think you might not be in luck if you were going for your PB bench press. The spotter might not bother as the weight crushes your throat
Micky Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 What has the Tiss betting thing got to do with this? Atleast he had the balls to come out and put it in his book, and admitted he was wrong. Which actually gave the book a larg(er) media coverage than it would have got - thus generating much better advertising and gaining much higher sales. Perhaps NC is currently penning his first business book and is looking for a 'hook'. Watch out for the Nicola Cortese bestseller, including chapter 5, 'I was wrong to ban NI from SMS' story soon folks...!
Micky Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 I have to say, I share this same view. After some 9 pages of what appears to be mostly speculation, some people even claiming that he has been banned, why doesn't he do just as you say. Surely, a quick trip to the ticket office, explain who he is, what has happened and ask for; a. A ST or b. an explanation as to why his money has been returned. Perhaps i'm not seeing the wood for the trees, but it does appear to be that simple to me. Perhaps TDD and I are just simpletons! I can't be bothered to read 14 pages of this, so I'm not sure what you're on about. I take it you've mentioned this earlier? Why doesn't illingsworth do that, then post up what happened? Or is that too simple Don't blame you for not wanting to read the whole thread - there is some cringeworthy stuff in there. But you're more than welcome into the simpleton club that is TDD and I.
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 What has the Tiss betting thing got to do with this? Atleast he had the balls to come out and put it in his book, and admitted he was wrong. What I said is pretty self-explanatory I'd have thought , but I'll have another go if you like . The world is a complicated place and many questions truly have no black and white answer . But just like the MLT fraud there are no 'shades of gray' involved here - notwithstanding the barrage of spurious excuses for Nicola Cortese's authoritarian atitude on here . A football club harassing a long standing fan merely because he has publicly disagreed with a aspect of club policy is just plain WRONG . If you don't stand up for what you believe to be morally RIGHT on a issue as fundamentally important as freedom of speech then you've precious little understanding of what is important - and what isn't .
Thedelldays Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 What I said is pretty self-explanatory I'd have thought , but I'll have another go if you like . The world is a complicated place and many questions truly have no black and white answer . But just like the MLT fraud there are no 'shades of gray' involved here - notwithstanding the barrage of spurious excuses for Nicola Cortese's authoritarian atitude on here . A football club harassing a long standing fan merely because he has publicly disagreed with a aspect of club policy is just plain WRONG . If you don't stand up for what you believe to be morally RIGHT on a issue as fundamentally important as freedom of speech then you've precious little understanding of what is important - and what isn't . what has freedom of speech got to do with going to saints...shall we abuse the next black player and claim freedom of speech..? it is a private company..like a nightclub or something (who refuse countless people they dont like) about time people realise that is football now
Ponty Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 It's not about freedom of speech though. I wouldn't let you walk into my house and shout the odds, under the guise of "freedom of speech". I wouldn't expect my employers to let you walk into the workplace and do the same. SMS isn't public land and Cortese has the right to bar entry to anyone he chooses, just as any shopkeeper, landlord, cinema manager, etc. has the same. Feel free to be outraged that the punishment doesn't fit the crime, by all means, but don't label it as wrong under some "freedom of speech" banner.
Smirking_Saint Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 What I said is pretty self-explanatory I'd have thought , but I'll have another go if you like . The world is a complicated place and many questions truly have no black and white answer . But just like the MLT fraud there are no 'shades of gray' involved here - notwithstanding the barrage of spurious excuses for Nicola Cortese's authoritarian atitude on here . A football club harassing a long standing fan merely because he has publicly disagreed with a aspect of club policy is just plain WRONG . If you don't stand up for what you believe to be morally RIGHT on a issue as fundamentally important as freedom of speech then you've precious little understanding of what is important - and what isn't . If you can't understand the points i was attempting to get across there really is little point trying.
Dave Benson Phillips Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 It's not about freedom of speech though. I wouldn't let you walk into my house and shout the odds, under the guise of "freedom of speech". I wouldn't expect my employers to let you walk into the workplace and do the same. SMS isn't public land and Cortese has the right to bar entry to anyone he chooses, just as any shopkeeper, landlord, cinema manager, etc. has the same. Feel free to be outraged that the punishment doesn't fit the crime, by all means, but don't label it as wrong under some "freedom of speech" banner. I've not mentioned freedom of speech, I don't think that's the issue. The actions of the club however are petty, childish and unprofessional.
Smirking_Saint Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 I've not mentioned freedom of speech, I don't think that's the issue. The actions of the club however are petty, childish and unprofessional. It wasn't aimed at you As for the actions well, its sort of debatable really depending on how you look at it.
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 Not this sh*te again. Why should i blindly defend ANYONE ?? Let alone just because they are a saints fan, without knowing all of the issues, if a Saints fan commited murder, do i still accept it ? Because he is a saints fan ? Thats crap. I feel sorry for him, i really do but in the cold light of day we don't know the reasons behind it and there is ALWAYS a reason. I can't see NC just engaging in some sort of scattergun bannings. As for free speech, thats a ton of crap as well, where does it end ? If a terrorist is actively calling on people to kill the english in this country should they be let off ? Do holocaust deniers get let off because of free speech ?? So If i was outside my gym, calling it sh*t to anyone that would listen, write blogs about it, contact the paper and slag it off, call the manager a w*nker would you not expect me to be politely told to get stuffed ?? Get a grip My grip on the real issue seems a tad tighter than yours . This 'we can't have an opinion because we don't possess a verbatim account of all correspondence between NI & the club' excuse leaves be unimpressed to put it mildly . I call that a convenient argument for those seeking to defend the indefensible . Clearly we all know now that you don't care a jot about freedom of speech or your fellow fans -and that says rather a lot about you .
LA77 Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 What I said is pretty self-explanatory I'd have thought , but I'll have another go if you like . The world is a complicated place and many questions truly have no black and white answer . But just like the MLT fraud there are no 'shades of gray' involved here - notwithstanding the barrage of spurious excuses for Nicola Cortese's authoritarian atitude on here . A football club harassing a long standing fan merely because he has publicly disagreed with a aspect of club policy is just plain WRONG . If you don't stand up for what you believe to be morally RIGHT on a issue as fundamentally important as freedom of speech then you've precious little understanding of what is important - and what isn't . And I still maintain that the Le Tiss betting thing has feck all to do with Illingsworth and his ST. MLT hardly changed the course of a match anyway if we are going to harp on about that, or cheated with a hand of God (see what I did there). Why doesn't he man up and face the ticket office at the window, instead of sending Emails ffs!!
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 What I said is pretty self-explanatory I'd have thought , but I'll have another go if you like . The world is a complicated place and many questions truly have no black and white answer . But just like the MLT fraud there are no 'shades of gray' involved here - notwithstanding the barrage of spurious excuses for Nicola Cortese's authoritarian atitude on here . A football club harassing a long standing fan merely because he has publicly disagreed with a aspect of club policy is just plain WRONG . If you don't stand up for what you believe to be morally RIGHT on a issue as fundamentally important as freedom of speech then you've precious little understanding of what is important - and what isn't . Amen, thank God there are still people on this Forum who appear to have a modicum of humanity.
Dave Benson Phillips Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 It wasn't aimed at you As for the actions well, its sort of debatable really depending on how you look at it. Err... I think we all know it's pretty obvious it's not an 'admin error' and the club are fully aware of their actions. To ignore calls, emails etc and not even give NI reason for it... instead choosing to simply refund his money and ignore him IS petty and childish, it is also unprofessional. Regardless of their reasons, they could have kept the moral highground by simply sending a quick email / making a quick call and justifying their actions.
LA77 Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 Amen, thank God there are still people on this Forum who appear to have a modicum of humanity. I agree with what he said. I just did not see the point in bringing up the Le Tiss incident in this thread about a fans season ticket being revoked.
Smirking_Saint Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 My grip on the real issue seems a tad tighter than yours . This 'we can't have an opinion because we don't possess a verbatim account of all correspondence between NI & the club' excuse leaves be unimpressed to put it mildly . I call that a convenient argument for those seeking to defend the indefensible . Clearly we all know now that you don't care a jot about freedom of speech or your fellow fans -and that says rather a lot about you . Well done there, avoiding the points i actually made to put your 'i'm higher than you' attitude rather into a more paling perspective. I respect freedom of speech and all in all i don't want to see an innocent saints fan come to any sort of hurt or heartache. However that has absolutely nothing to do with what is happening here, nothing. Is he indefensible ?? I don't know i really don't, but IMO NI has done enough to cause a company that is offering a service to politely tell him he is not welcome. Please don't confuse this issue with anything other than it is, a customer talking negatively about a company being refused its service.
Smirking_Saint Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 Err... I think we all know it's pretty obvious it's not an 'admin error' and the club are fully aware of their actions. To ignore calls, emails etc and not even give NI reason for it... instead choosing to simply refund his money and ignore him IS petty and childish, it is also unprofessional. Regardless of their reasons, they could have kept the moral highground by simply sending a quick email / making a quick call and justifying their actions. Have you actually read the current debate between me and CEC ? I also said earlier it is doubtful it is an admin error, i really don't understand why you are jumping into what i am currently saying without actually understanding it ?
Smirking_Saint Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 Amen, thank God there are still people on this Forum who appear to have a modicum of humanity. Ok, i'll put it into other terms. If someone is on a plane, and begins to verbally abuse the staff and company whilst the plane is still grounded for arguements sake, would the staff just pass it off as freedom of speech or would the perpetrator be dealt with ? As that is pretty much what is happening here, nothing really to do with freedom of speech at all.
buctootim Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 Amen, thank God there are still people on this Forum who appear to have a modicum of humanity. Says the bloke who cost people their jobs.
Gigersaint Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 (edited) Quote LA77 "I can't be bothered to read 14 pages of this, so I'm not sure what you're on about. I take it you've mentioned this earlier? Why doesn't illingsworth do that, then post up what happened? Or is that too simple" I mentioned the same earlier too, I wouldn't sit around waiting for an email or a phone call, I'd be down there face to face wanting to know why. Although surely Nick would have done so? I've seen no mention that he has though, but you can't ignore someone face to face without giving them some confirmed answer. Edited 28 July, 2010 by Gigersaint Quote didn't work.
View From The Top Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 My grip on the real issue seems a tad tighter than yours . This 'we can't have an opinion because we don't possess a verbatim account of all correspondence between NI & the club' excuse leaves be unimpressed to put it mildly . I call that a convenient argument for those seeking to defend the indefensible . Clearly we all know now that you don't care a jot about freedom of speech or your fellow fans -and that says rather a lot about you . The simple fact that you have decided the result despite not being in possession of the facts says rather a lot about you. You presuppose it's about freedom of speech without one iota of evidence to suggest that is what it is about at all. I'd put your soap box away if I were you, you're starting to look a tad silly now.
Smirking_Saint Posted 28 July, 2010 Posted 28 July, 2010 It is actually quite comical that a few people have stuck their heads out of their hypothetical ivory towers to lecture me on the finer points of humility to your fellow man and the convention of freedom of speech. I mean jesus christ.
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