saint_stevo Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 You only had to be at St Mary's when Saints beat Huddersfiled 5-0 in March 2010 to see Saints already had a significantly better squad and that they had a long way to catch up. Even with their signings so far they are still a long way behind bridging that gap. I did, off day perhaps? All teams have them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 I think alps is getting at that we are no stronger now than we were when we ended the season, only butterfield adding anything, and it remains to be seen if he is any better than thomas of james. Whereas it seems a lot of other teams who finished around us, possibly with the exception of charlton have strengthened in more than 1 position, especially udders tbf Dickson will add quality as well, regarded as one of the best left sided players outside the prem. I think Huddersfield are stronger than they were last season, they've significantly strengthened in the areas we ****ed all over them (notably midfield). But i still don't get the opinions (mainly from alps) that we need to make lots of signings, that we don't actually need, otherwise we'll be left behind. Just to be sure we need to buy backup for Morgan, but then just in case....we need to get backup for the backup player as well. etc... Don't you already think we have the quality? they're adding to get close to our quality. FWIW it's mid july, the squad has just come back from switzerland and some area lready speaking like we're letting the season pass us by. bit odd tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 tbf Dickson will add quality as well, regarded as one of the best left sided players outside the prem. I think Huddersfield are stronger than they were last season, they've significantly strengthened in the areas we ****ed all over them (notably midfield). But i still don't get the opinions (mainly from alps) that we need to make lots of signings, that we don't actually need, otherwise we'll be left behind. Just to be sure we need to buy backup for Morgan, but then just in case....we need to get backup for the backup player as well. etc... Don't you already think we have the quality? they're adding to get close to our quality. FWIW it's mid july, the squad has just come back from switzerland and some area lready speaking like we're letting the season pass us by. bit odd tbh How many siginings do you think I am demanding, FFS ? I have demanded signings in certain key areas. Its the club that has developed a defender fixation, ergo a quantity fixation. Personally, I reckon one of our three signings were necessary, the others were lower priority than the pacy winger and CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 Look, you clearly dont get it, so here it is in black-and-white : Our first XI is stronger Our squad is much weaker For a 50-game promotion campaign you need a squad as insurance against injury and disciplinary problems. Is that clear enough for you ? Third division sides don't have strength that far down and we only have to come top of that pile to win the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 I wasn't the one that said the current squad is weaker. The squad last season only really took shape at the end of January 2010. Before that it was still very much a work in progress. Since January, Dickson, Richardson and Butterfield have been added. Thus the fullback positions are in theory stronger now than last season. Yes, it is missing Papa Waigo and Antonio who did play important roles but neither of those were ever 1st choice. Lallana and Puncheon started EVERY game out wide when available to do so. Dickson can play as a winger and Oxlade-Chamberlain may come on occasionally. Not to mention still 6 weeks of transfer window left. and Butterfield has covered, well reading reports, in CM and CB in CCC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 Third division sides don't have strength that far down and we only have to come top of that pile to win the league. That sounds like "playing for a draw" to me. And probably the success of achieving the desired result is the same... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 How many siginings do you think I am demanding, FFS ? I have demanded signings in certain key areas. Its the club that has developed a defender fixation, ergo a quantity fixation. Personally, I reckon one of our three signings were necessary, the others were lower priority than the pacy winger and CM. I knew you had delusion of grandeur....glad the signings will be sorted then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 I knew you had delusion of grandeur....glad the signings will be sorted then! Yep, the old trick. Cant argue with the substance of the post, so nit-pick on the choice of verbs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 Its the club that has developed a defender fixation, ergo a quantity fixation. 3 left backs (two of which can play as wide midfielder) 2 right backs (both of which can play as wide midfielders) 4 centre backs Hardly a fixation! How do you know they aren't looking for a winger, central midfielder and "Lambert style" striker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 think the points are quite clear; over 85% of the season we averaged 2 points per game - which is 6 points more than Leeds did over the season to gain automatic promotion. This shows that the team was good enough, once assembled to gain automatic promotion. Many of those additions were in the Jan window. We were weakest at RB - we have signed two very highly rated RBs. We lacked cover at LB - we have signed a quality LB who can also play LM. Connolly is fit and signed a new contract. Ox-C came through at the end of the season as 2nd youngest player for us ever, and has been playing in warm-ups on the wing and is seen as having a role this season. Butterfield played 40 odd games for a good CCC side last season and can play well RM or CM where we lacked cover. We have got rid of a lot of poor players and players who were unlikely to play much. We have lost two wingers who played about 14 odd games max each in league. AP has said he is trying to sign one of them, They would not be first choice anyway. Puncheon played CM well for MK before he came here. substance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 think the points are quite clear; over 85% of the season we averaged 2 points per game - which is 6 points more than Leeds did over the season to gain automatic promotion. This shows that the team was good enough, once assembled to gain automatic promotion. Many of those additions were in the Jan window. We were weakest at RB - we have signed two very highly rated RBs. We lacked cover at LB - we have signed a quality LB who can also play LM. Connolly is fit and signed a new contract. Ox-C came through at the end of the season as 2nd youngest player for us ever, and has been playing in warm-ups on the wing and is seen as having a role this season. Butterfield played 40 odd games for a good CCC side last season and can play well RM or CM where we lacked cover. We have got rid of a lot of poor players and players who were unlikely to play much. We have lost two wingers who played about 14 odd games max each in league. AP has said he is trying to sign one of them, They would not be first choice anyway. Puncheon played CM well for MK before he came here. substance? Cherry-picked points to support your completely mis-placed optimism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 you are not even convincing yourself now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vince Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 I guess the thing to do with the argument about the depth of the squad it to write down your 1st choice team, then take out the 3 most important players and pretend they have long term injuries and replace them with the squad players left and see how comfortable you'd be with that team for 10 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 Cherry-picked points to support your completely mis-placed optimism. Lets see you do a similar list to NickG cherry-picking your points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 I guess the thing to do with the argument about the depth of the squad it to write down your 1st choice team, then take out the 3 most important players and pretend they have long term injuries and replace them with the squad players left and see how comfortable you'd be with that team for 10 games. Team without Lambert, Fonte and Lallana Davis Richardson Harding Jaidi Seaborne Puncheon Hammond Schneiderlin Dickson Barnard Connolly It gets more complicated if you take out Schneiderlin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 Cherry-picked points to support your completely mis-placed optimism. but you do it all the time. a fwiw he makes very valid points. Jury is still out on the 2 RB's, but they're very promising additions based on their form last season (1 in a league above) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 We are incapable of going to Northern sh*tholes mid-week mid-winter on rugby pitches and getting results, and nothing in our transfer activity has improved that We dont know yet if our three defensive additions are that good A team that had no Plan B to start with has lost most of its attacking options, unless you count an unproven 16 year old, and an MK reject who seems to decide not always to turn up mentally.. We are still dependent upon one creative midfielder, his fitness, his discipline (which hasnt been that good) and his desire to get results We are assuming that Lamberts run of form is going to last another season Nothing suggests Connolly is going to be fitter than last season We have no decent second-choice GK yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 Team without Lambert, Fonte and Lallana Davis Richardson Harding Jaidi Seaborne Puncheon Hammond Schneiderlin Dickson Barnard Connolly It gets more complicated if you take out Schneiderlin. Yeah, I'll bet it does, hence he's not in your first three. That tells me if Schneiderlin is injured / banned, you have no answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 Were we ever short at lb last season?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 (edited) We are incapable of going to Northern sh*tholes mid-week mid-winter on rugby pitches and getting results, and nothing in our transfer activity has improved that A team that had no Plan B to start with has lost most of its attacking options, unless you count an unproven 16 year old, and an MK reject who seems to decide not always to turn up mentally.. We are still dependent upon one creative midfielder, his fitness, his discipline (which hasnt been that good) and his desire to get results We are assuming that Lamberts run of form is going to last another season Nothing suggests Connolly is going to be fitter than last season We have no decent second-choice GK yet 1) Are you calling Jason Puncheon a MK dons reject? 2) I agree with you we need cover/competition for Schneiderlin and Hammond. 3) I see little reason why Lambert will lose his touch. He has 60 League goals in the last two years. 4) I believe Connolly won the fitness tests and was declared fittest member of the squad in pre season. 5) Bialkowski is back training and playing with the club. Edited 19 July, 2010 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 1) Are you calling Jason Puncheon a MK dons reject? 2) I agree with you we need cover/competition for Schneirlin and Hammond. 3) I see little reason why Lambert will lose his touch. He has 60 League goals in the last two years. 4) I believe Connolly won the fitness tests and was declared fittest member of the squad in pre season. 5) Bialkowski is back training and playing with the club. I dont accept your answers, but note you had no argument at all against my first point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchards Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 We are incapable of going to Northern sh*tholes mid-week mid-winter on rugby pitches and getting results, and nothing in our transfer activity has improved that A team that had no Plan B to start with has lost most of its attacking options, unless you count an unproven 16 year old, and an MK reject who seems to decide not always to turn up mentally.. We are still dependent upon one creative midfielder, his fitness, his discipline (which hasnt been that good) and his desire to get results We are assuming that Lamberts run of form is going to last another season Nothing suggests Connolly is going to be fitter than last season We have no decent second-choice GK yet You make some fair points Alpy but let's leave it to AP to sort out, that's what he is paid for and quite frankly he knows his head is on the line here and you can be sure he is busting his arse trying to bring in the right players and not just any players for the sake of trying to keep fans happy. He plan is to win this league and to continue straight through the Championship without having to buy too many other players. He is doing that with Richardson and Dickson + who he brings in next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 We are incapable of going to Northern sh*tholes mid-week mid-winter on rugby pitches and getting results, and nothing in our transfer activity has improved that We dont know yet if our three defensive additions are that good A team that had no Plan B to start with has lost most of its attacking options, unless you count an unproven 16 year old, and an MK reject who seems to decide not always to turn up mentally.. We are still dependent upon one creative midfielder, his fitness, his discipline (which hasnt been that good) and his desire to get results We are assuming that Lamberts run of form is going to last another season Nothing suggests Connolly is going to be fitter than last season We have no decent second-choice GK yet We should probably pack it in now really after all who else is dependant on 4 or 5 top players at their respecitve levels? Its not like Man U are assuming Rooneys run of form is going to continue, Chelsea depending heavily on a strikers fitness, discpline (which hasn't been that good) and his desire to get results, and nothing suggest Torres or Joe Cole are going to be fitter than last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 I dont accept your answers oh well, never mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 I dont accept your answers, but note you had no argument at all against my first point. Your first point is opinion and no-one will know under the season is underway thus I didn't answer. Dickson, Butterfield and Richardson all have experience on poor pitches in the English north. You say you don't accept my answers, care to explain why to each of the 5? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 I dont accept your answers, but note you had no argument at all against my first point. Puncheon was first choice right midfielder last season and a class player at this level, in the L1 team of the year and only 23 years old and will get better. Doesn't sound like a reject to me....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 Yeah, I'll bet it does, hence he's not in your first three. That tells me if Schneiderlin is injured / banned, you have no answer. No, I have already said I agree with you that the club needs cover/competition for Hammond and Schneiderlin. In fact that should now be the priority ahead of a winger or striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 Based on Alpines Paul the Octopus predictions. we may as well start preparing for next seasons dire pitches in the 2nd division. Alpine has quite clearly intimated we are going to be relegated. While Oxley will be a year older how many other clubs will be sniffing around for this exceptional talent. Cheer up sulky alpine Oh what can it mean playing in the 2nd division with a team full of has beens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 No, I have already said I agree with you that the club needs cover/competition for Hammond and Schneiderlin. In fact that should now be the priority ahead of a winger or striker. It should have been the first transfer of the summer, bugger if we had to pay a couple of hundred thousand more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 It should have been the first transfer of the summer, bugger if we had to pay a couple of hundred thousand more... nope, right back was the first priority as we didn't even have a first teamer to start there before richardson signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 (edited) Look, you clearly dont get it, so here it is in black-and-white : Our first XI is stronger Our squad is much weaker For a 50-game promotion campaign you need a squad as insurance against injury and disciplinary problems. Is that clear enough for you ? Sorry but that is just complete t*ss. You take out the three best players from ANY team in this division and tell me that they can cope ?? You have to be having a laugh really. The fact that we are so dependant on Schneiderlin shows that he is playing IMO below his level, there is no way that we could replace him if we went, no way no how at this level. We do need another CM but if we don't it isn't our whole season over, we had a decent end to last season with only Wotton as back up which is respectively detrimental to the team when he plays. Puncheon can play there, Gobern could play there, apparantly that Dean Harley or whatever his name is on trial is looking pretty good, Butterfield can play there. Where else ?? On the wing ?? Harding, Dickson, Lallana, Puncheon, Ox-C can play there. Up front i think we need another player as a definate for if Lambert crocks it, i don't trust Connelly for a whole season but then Lallana can play there. This is league one FFS, half the teams really are not that great and we won't be without more than 9 first team players for the majority unless we are really unlucky. I really, really do NOT get this complaicency... Because we ended the season very well and in all due respect have only lost two Subs and have strengthened the defence. The best two sides in the league have left and only really Wednesday have anything close to their quality, Charlton and Swindon have been weakened. Huddersfield look a tad stronger, IF Carsley and Howard perform and they do not bleed any first team players. If managed correctly we will be ok. Stop f*cking panicing. Edited 19 July, 2010 by Smirking_Saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 1) Are you calling Jason Puncheon a MK dons reject? 2) I agree with you we need cover/competition for Schneirlin and Hammond. 3) I see little reason why Lambert will lose his touch. He has 60 League goals in the last two years. 4) I believe Connolly won the fitness tests and was declared fittest member of the squad in pre season. 5) Bialkowski is back training and playing with the club. Whilst not totally joining the doom and gloom merchants, I can share some of Alpine's concerns here. MLG avoids Alpines first point about application and mental approach on 'sh!tty mudfields' that we could not cope with last season.This is down to AP to resolve,it has nothing to do with transfers in. Other points 1)Puncheon does seem to have an attitude,even if not doubting his potential 2)All agreed, we need a quality reinforcement here 3)All players have an off day,or season.....just hope Lamber does not 4)Connolly being fit,preseason is no guarentee,and given his track record it would be foolish to rely on him staying fit for the season 5)Agree with Alpine, we need GK back up irrespective of BB being in training,he wants away,and frankly I'm not convinced that he is the longterm answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 nope, right back was the first priority as we didn't even have a first teamer to start there before richardson signed. Harding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 Harding he's not a RB, a make shift emergency option. You'd be the first one moaning if there was a chance he'd be playing at RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 We are incapable of going to Northern sh*tholes mid-week mid-winter on rugby pitches and getting results, and nothing in our transfer activity has improved that And who exactly is the sort of player you are looking for here ?? Shall we sign a couple of Tyro Rep stars used to playing on crappy park pitches ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 I agree, a transition with a few filling in the gaps is far better than trying to re-build with a lot of signings, look at Saints last season; it did take a while for all that to gel, not only that some of these signings are getting on a bit and will no doubt be more prone to pick up injuries, the dark horse out their for me anyway is Brighton; to under estimate Poyet would be folly. Agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 Harding lol I can't believe you said that. You moan about the squad, yet are happy to put up with a left back playing out of position at right back. Plus no cover beyond Harding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 MLG avoids Alpines first point about application and mental approach on 'sh!tty mudfields' that we could not cope with last season. I answered that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Monkey Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 think the points are quite clear; over 85% of the season we averaged 2 points per game - which is 6 points more than Leeds did over the season to gain automatic promotion. This shows that the team was good enough, once assembled to gain automatic promotion. Many of those additions were in the Jan window. We were weakest at RB - we have signed two very highly rated RBs. We lacked cover at LB - we have signed a quality LB who can also play LM. Connolly is fit and signed a new contract. Ox-C came through at the end of the season as 2nd youngest player for us ever, and has been playing in warm-ups on the wing and is seen as having a role this season. Butterfield played 40 odd games for a good CCC side last season and can play well RM or CM where we lacked cover. We have got rid of a lot of poor players and players who were unlikely to play much. We have lost two wingers who played about 14 odd games max each in league. AP has said he is trying to sign one of them, They would not be first choice anyway. Puncheon played CM well for MK before he came here. substance? Connolly has signed a new contract??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 I answered that. And it was a wofeul excuse for an answer. We have a track record of being sh*te under such circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 (edited) I'm still optimistic that there are further signings on the way. For one thing Adam Lallana has been told that a wide left midfielder will be signed as competition for him despite the fact he doesn't think he is a wide left midfielder. We still haven't got the back up for Lambert and no box to box central midfielder. The present depth of the squad is thin, Butterfield can only be classed as versatile if he isn't required as right back which he will be until the middle of October at the earliest. We have cover at the back except for right back, we have four midfielders and three strikers that can be classed as starters, but Connolly and Holmes are fragile, Wotton isn't good enough. We already have one long term injury it could easily happen that three or four could be injured for periods which means this squad just isn't strong enough numerically. Alan Pardew was hard pressed last season to get an endorsement from Cortese and I would think is under no illusion regarding the consequences of a poor start. This season is under the heading 'no excuses', If we are caught short and not looking like a top two side for whatever reason I can't see Cortese leaving it too long without taking action. For that reason I can see further strengthening over and above the three positions mentioned and the overall depth improved, albeit with two or three good loan signings. Edited 19 July, 2010 by derry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 yep - looking good for next season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 @ Alpine again and again and again.... What a truly bizare person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 yep - looking good for next season! Is that your response to derry ? Evidence if it were needed that you only see what you want to see.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 So you have no answer to my previous post that, in all due respect we have a pretty good 'squad' compared to many in this league and arguably THE best first 11......... with respect to Wednesday that could be close to matching us (arguable) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 Is that your response to derry ? Evidence if it were needed that you only see what you want to see.... Another classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 And it was a wofeul excuse for an answer. We have a track record of being sh*te under such circumstances. Well if mine was a bad answer, what about you saying play Harding out of position at right back and having no cover beyond him? Harding was only ever a makeshift right back. He'd get found out over the course of a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 Just put thrush on ignore. He reads so much better that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 So you have no answer to my previous post that, in all due respect we have a pretty good 'squad' compared to many in this league and arguably THE best first 11......... with respect to Wednesday that could be close to matching us (arguable) I am not paid to tell AP who to sign, its his job to find the solution to a glaring problem from last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 19 July, 2010 Share Posted 19 July, 2010 Well if mine was a bad answer, what about you saying play Harding out of position at right back and having no cover beyond him? Harding was only ever a makeshift right back. He'd get found out over the course of a season. As will some of the players you are championing, such as Puncheon and Connolly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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