Opening day 2009 vs Opening day 2010

[Matthew Le God]

A nice positive alternative to an "Alpine type" thread.

 

One year ago today on 18th July 2009 and Alan Pardew had had one day of preseason at this point with the squad. No players had been signed, no two and a half weeks of preseason and no ten days together in a Switzerland training camp playing two games.

 

Squad on the opening day last season vs Millwall 8th August 2009...

 

             Davis

Murty  Thomas   Perry  Harding

James  Wotton  Schneiderlin  Lallana

     Paterson  Saganowski 

Subs: 

Bialkowski
Gillett
Holmes
Lancashire
Pulis
Thomson
Gobern

 

The squad above only won one of its first 10 games and it did evolve in personal over the course of the season and ended up earning only 3 fewer points than 2nd place Leeds.

 

Compare that to a potential squad for the opening day this season vs Plymouth 7th August 2010...

 

                 Davis

Richardson   Jaidi   Fonte   Harding

Puncheon  Schneiderlin Hammond  Lallana

          Lambert    Barnard

Subs:

Bialkowski
Dickson
Seaborne
Butterfield
Wotton
Oxlade-Chamberlain
Connolly

And have these still in reserve...

Mills
Martin
McNish
Gobern
Holmes

 

Looks alot stronger doesn't it!? This is the starting point of Saints squad from match one rather than mid way through last season.

 

(yes, I know Richardson is injured, but Butterfield is adequate cover whilst he recovers)

 

And most importantly 3 weeks of the window left before the Plymouth game and 6 weeks in total of the window left.

 

Saints do however need a little more squad depth. I'd like to see a new central midfielder for cover and competition with Schneiderlin and Hammond, a "Lambert style" striker and a pacy winger in that priority order. But the actual first XI is pretty much there and gelled already, just need those three areas of cover/competition and the squad is sorted.

 

No need to panic Alpine or start anymore threads of despair!!!

Edited 18 July, 2010 by Matthew Le God

[MarkSFC]

Perfectly summed up!

[RedArmy]

The complete right side of that Millwall team is embarassing.

[Turkish]

The complete right side of that Millwall team is embarassing.

 

Look at the spine of the team, only Schneiderlin worth a place now.

[Appy]

How is Murty embarrasing? Did alrite for us in the few games he played.

[SaintBobby]

Agree, what a difference a year makes.

 

That said, the starting line-up vs. Milwall last year isn't that bad (and should have won before the tenth league game of the season!)

 

Big difference should be the preparation we had this time. Its really depth more than quality that Im worried about this time.

[trousers]

Did Pardew really pick Pulis in his first squad?

[Matthew Le God]

Did Pardew really pick Pulis in his first squad?

 

I took it from the Saints website...

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/MatchReport/0,,10280~49128,00.html

 

Really shows how lacking the squad was at that point.

[SaintRichmond]

Agree, what a difference a year makes.

 

That said, the starting line-up vs. Milwall last year isn't that bad (and should have won before the tenth league game of the season!)

 

Big difference should be the preparation we had this time. Its really depth more than quality that Im worried about this time.

 

You mean all the Confidence sapping defeats ? "Friendly's" or not, they DO count

[Turkish]

You mean all the Confidence sapping defeats ? "Friendly's" or not, they DO count

 

Newcastle 6-1 defeat at Leyton Orient in last seasons per season damaged their promotion hopes didn't it.

 

If you read Pardews post match comments he says the pre season was designed to start with two tough games so the players realise the reality of where we are, interesting tactic, guess to stop players going into the season thinking they are the new Barcelona but in reality one of 3 or 4 decent sides in the third tier of English football.

[John D]

You mean all the Confidence sapping defeats ? "Friendly's" or not, they DO count

 

FFS you can't please some people - easy wins against weak oppo is wrong as we need to play decent teams, marginal defeats against strong teams is wrong as it is bad for morale!!

 

Rubbish - pre season is about fitness, tactics, team bonding and gelling - results are irrelevant.

[John B]

FFS you can't please some people - easy wins against weak oppo is wrong as we need to play decent teams, marginal defeats against strong teams is wrong as it is bad for morale!!

 

Rubbish - pre season is about fitness, tactics, team bonding and gelling - results are irrelevant.

 

Pre-Season is about getting the team playing well if results are poor the team may not be playing well

[S-Clarke]

FFS you can't please some people - easy wins against weak oppo is wrong as we need to play decent teams, marginal defeats against strong teams is wrong as it is bad for morale!!

 

Rubbish - pre season is about fitness, tactics, team bonding and gelling - results are irrelevant.

 

Yep, exactly and I'm really pleased to see that a real structure has been put in place this pre-season and there is a method behind everything we do, even the order on which we play teams. So many previous pre-seasons have been ''run, run, run'' play some games win 12-0 and it forces everyone into a false sense of security.....including the players.

 

Pardew is spot on in his comments by saying that these 2 games will act as a wake up call, as well as being really big fitness tests.

[S-Clarke]

Pre-Season is about getting the team playing well if results are poor the team may not be playing well

 

Not at this stage John, the early pre-season games are just there for fitness games and it allows the players to get back up to speed of match sharpness/ball control etc. The first 2 results of any pre-season mean absolutely sod all in the grand scheme of things, a 12-0 win or a 2-0 defeat, it doesn't matter in the slightest.

 

The pre-season game that should give a decent indication will be reading at home.

[eelpie]

The tests will come not only v Plymouth but also v Bournemouth who return to the third tier full of confidence after their excellent showing in League 2 with very few resources and they have already drawn with Fulham pre-season. I hope they are not going to be our Swindon. We definitely must not treat them as inferior until we have actually beaten them.

[SaintRichmond]

FFS you can't please some people - easy wins against weak oppo is wrong as we need to play decent teams, marginal defeats against strong teams is wrong as it is bad for morale!!

 

Rubbish - pre season is about fitness, tactics, team bonding and gelling - results are irrelevant.

 

I could not disagree more. From a morale point of view, a draw is better than a losss, and a win is better than a draw

 

A DEFEAT is confidence draining, and HABIT forming, in the same way as WINS are

 

No point in being the best of mates, and fit, if having crap Tactics

[John B]

Not at this stage John, the early pre-season games are just there for fitness games and it allows the players to get back up to speed of match sharpness/ball control etc. The first 2 results of any pre-season mean absolutely sod all in the grand scheme of things, a 12-0 win or a 2-0 defeat, it doesn't matter in the slightest.

 

The pre-season game that should give a decent indication will be reading at home.

 

And if we lose against Reading and fail to score then what?

[Saint_clark]

And if we lose against Reading and fail to score then what?

 

Then I assume we should all pack in and give up for next season?

[Andyb1]

I could not disagree more. From a morale point of view, a draw is better than a losss, and a win is better than a draw

 

A DEFEAT is confidence draining, and HABIT forming, in the same way as WINS are

 

No point in being the best of mates, and fit, if having crap Tactics

 

Why the need to capitalize everything? Are you really shouting? You are also incorrect, do you or have you ever played football? Pre season friendlies are to get the fitness right, get some air in the lungs etc etc. We have played two top division sides and lost narrowly. Would you honestly prefer to see us stuffing some pile of crap that this no way comparable to the opposition we will be facing? If so you'll probably get your chance soon enough... Also losing 2 games is not forming a habit... You need to chill out, go and watch some cricket or something. Come back when the season starts...

[SaintRichmond]

Why the need to capitalize everything? Are you really shouting? You are also incorrect, do you or have you ever played football? Pre season friendlies are to get the fitness right, get some air in the lungs etc etc. We have played two top division sides and lost narrowly. Would you honestly prefer to see us stuffing some pile of crap that this no way comparable to the opposition we will be facing? If so you'll probably get your chance soon enough... Also losing 2 games is not forming a habit... You need to chill out, go and watch some cricket or something. Come back when the season starts...

 

I have a point of view, of which some will agree, some will not

Yes I have played Football, only made Hampshire League level

You are right, pre season friendlies ARE to get fit, bond etc........ and also to WIN if possible

Winning IS a habit, and Losing IS a habit too

I agree it is better to play decent Teams instead of "crap" as you put it, but you should have a relatively "weak" Team lined up to beat , for "morale" building if nothing else

 

I do watch cricket too, and that is just as exciting in its own right. Teams get into the habit of winning in that as well

[Andyb1]

Lol, ok fair enough. Still some shouting in there though

 

I have a point of view, of which some will agree, some will not

Yes I have played Football, only made Hampshire League level

You are right, pre season friendlies ARE to get fit, bond etc........ and also to WIN if possible

Winning IS a habit, and Losing IS a habit too

I agree it is better to play decent Teams instead of "crap" as you put it, but you should have a relatively "weak" Team lined up to beat , for "morale" building if nothing else

 

I do watch cricket too, and that is just as exciting in its own right. Teams get into the habit of winning in that as well

[Clifford Nelson]

Newcastle 6-1 defeat at Leyton Orient in last seasons per season damaged their promotion hopes didn't it.

 

If you read Pardews post match comments he says the pre season was designed to start with two tough games so the players realise the reality of where we are, interesting tactic, guess to stop players going into the season thinking they are the new Barcelona but in reality one of 3 or 4 decent sides in the third tier of English football.

 

You're making two mistakes: Firstly, by quoting one game as an argument against all scientific knowledge that losing games is bad for confidence. Secondly, by not understanding that the AP comments are "spin". Does anybody really think that we set up two pre-season friendlies so that we could lose them!!!???

 

It might not be the end of the world, but it hasn't made things easier. If we lose to Reading (a clear possibility) and slip up against Sutton because we underestimate them (this has happened many times in the past both for us and for others) then we will start the season with seriously underwhelming confidence levels.

[saintwarwick]

Did Pardew really pick Pulis in his first squad?

 

Was on the bench for the first game of the season and never seen again (thank ****)

[saintwarwick]

You're making two mistakes: Firstly, by quoting one game as an argument against all scientific knowledge that losing games is bad for confidence. Secondly, by not understanding that the AP comments are "spin". Does anybody really think that we set up two pre-season friendlies so that we could lose them!!!???

 

It might not be the end of the world, but it hasn't made things easier. If we lose to Reading (a clear possibility) and slip up against Sutton because we underestimate them (this has happened many times in the past both for us and for others) then we will start the season with seriously underwhelming confidence levels.

 

I disagree, the players know these are friendlies and whilst winning breeds confidence they know the business end starts on August 07th this is what they are aiming for. Preparing for this date is what these friendlies are all about, losing to two top teams isn't the end of the world and the players will know this. As for AP's comments and spin, you're having a laugh right?

[merrimd]

I could not disagree more. From a morale point of view, a draw is better than a losss, and a win is better than a draw

 

A DEFEAT is confidence draining, and HABIT forming, in the same way as WINS are

 

So is a 1-0 win against crawley is better than a 2-1 loss to Man U? Seeing as your sweeping statement above does not account for opposition in any way.

 

Also, would it be fair to say you learn more from a loss than a win?

 

Our next game should give you the win you crave, however I would bet the players would accept more was gained from the 2 losses.

[oxfordshire_saint]

Ah, the same old argument every pre-season!

 

Yes, you want to win the games, any footballer worth their salt should want to win every game they play in, but the main aim of pre-season is to test the players and for the manager to learn things about his squad.

 

Anyone whingeing about losing a couple of friendlies needs a reality check, you're the sort of people who sum up the current culture in football where managers are sacked after a handful of games.

 

It'd have been nice to win, we didn't, but the players got some match practice and fitness. Looking forward to seeing what sort of side we put out at Farnborough.

[benjii]

I'm glad everyone on here is able to speak on behalf of our players. No longer will I listen to interviews to get a fell for how confident we are, I'll just log on here.

[saintwarwick]

I'm glad everyone on here is able to speak on behalf of our players. No longer will I listen to interviews to get a fell for how confident we are, I'll just log on here.

 

We can speak on behalf of our players, we pay their wages

[benjii]

We can speak on behalf of our players, we pay their wages

 

Yes, that is true. On that basis I think posts should be rationed according to games attended.

 

That may have some unintended but pleasant consequences...

[saintwarwick]

Yes, that is true. On that basis I think posts should be rationed according to games attended.

 

That may have some unintended but pleasant consequences...

 

You mean no alpine

[benjii]

You mean no alpine

 

I have no idea what you mean.