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Who would have thought it?

sadoldgit

By sadoldgit,
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sadoldgit

sadoldgit

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A few years ago, that...

 

We would miss Owen Hargreaves so much?

That Emile Hesley would still play?

That Wayne Rooney would be one of the worst performers in an England shirt?

That we would have one of Europe's top managers in charge, pay him so much money and that he would keep his job after making so many mistakes?

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sadoldgit

sadoldgit

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What mistakes has Capello made?

 

Where do you start? Heskey, Upson, Gerrard on the left, Rooney, taking King when he was obviosuly not fit enough to play a tournament, sticking with a system that did nothing for the team, not dropping Terry after that ill advised press conference....he wasn't helped by his players but he made a hash of it.

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JackFrost

JackFrost

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Not picking Walcott,not dropping Rooney,not playing crouch and Defoe together,Not having James in goal from the start of the tournamant,taking Heskey,not dropping Lampard or Gerrard.

 

All imo.

 

Where do you start? Heskey, Upson, Gerrard on the left, Rooney, taking King when he was obviosuly not fit enough to play a tournament, sticking with a system that did nothing for the team, not dropping Terry after that ill advised press conference....he wasn't helped by his players but he made a hash of it.

 

TBF I don't think Capello has any say in those decisions

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St Landrew

St Landrew

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Of course, personally I would have taken Walcott but that apart Capello was hardly spoilt for choice TBH.

 

Hmm, don't know about Walcott. Maybe, maybe not. Agreed about Capello not being spoilt for choice though. Looking back on the squad he took, I think Calamity and [grudgingly] A. Cole were the only players who came out of the tournament with any real credit. I think the occasion got to them. All of them have had the potential to bottle it. You just don't expect them to do it at the same time.

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sadoldgit

sadoldgit

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I don't think he made a hash of it. I just think his players let him down hugely.

 

If you need to score goals do you bring on Heskey (for that matter if you want to win the World Cup would you take him?). True he wasn't spoiled for choice but he did have choices and he made the wrong ones. It was his job to get this sqaud ready to face the best and they looked out of their depth. Why was that? There were some decent players in that sqaud and they looked second class. They have to take some blame but so does the manager. He is paid a fortune and what did he deliver?

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sadoldgit

sadoldgit

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I am not saying it is all down to Capello but he has to take his shre of the blame. We give managers like Bulrye flak for not playing players in their best positions. Rooney plays well up front on his own, Gerrard is one of the best attacking midfielders on the plant and he plays him wide left. Upson had a poor season and he plays him instead of a player who had a great season at Spurs (after saying he would pick form players). I also thought that A Cole had a poor Word Cup considering he is supposed to be one of the best left backs in the world. Just look at his positional play and he was no threat going forward at all. You could see the problems in the USA game and Capello is paid to fix that stuff. It got much worse and the display against the Germans was one of the worst performances I have seen from an English team.

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Andy_Porter

Andy_Porter

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Where do you start? Heskey, Upson, Gerrard on the left, Rooney, taking King when he was obviosuly not fit enough to play a tournament, sticking with a system that did nothing for the team, not dropping Terry after that ill advised press conference....he wasn't helped by his players but he made a hash of it.

 

The same system and players who done so well in qualifying.

 

Gerrard played on the left because he doesn't warrant the team being built around him, based on his England/Liverpool form he shouldn't be anywhere near the team really. Nine goals last season in his proper position, Lampard got more than double that - if we're going on club form it should be Lampard in his proper attacking midfield position.

 

It's very easy to blame the system, we simply aren't good enough. We could have played 4-4-2, 4-3-2-1, 4-5-1 whatever the outcome would have been the same. People would be moaning and blaming the formation no matter what. It's time to realise players like Gerrard, Lennon, Terry, Barry, Lampard, Crouch, Defoe - they just aren't as good as we think they are. Doesn't help that the whole squad is rotten to the core.

 

I don't think he made a hash of it. I just think his players let him down hugely.

 

Indeed, it wasn't the systems fault that Terry and Upson forgot how to defend and let Klose in against James, it wasn't Heskey being in the side that made Rob Green let one slip through his fingers etc

 

If you need to score goals do you bring on Heskey (for that matter if you want to win the World Cup would you take him?). True he wasn't spoiled for choice but he did have choices and he made the wrong ones. It was his job to get this sqaud ready to face the best and they looked out of their depth. Why was that? There were some decent players in that sqaud and they looked second class. They have to take some blame but so does the manager. He is paid a fortune and what did he deliver?

 

We where never going to win the world cup, it's ridiculous to think with the current crop that we could win the world cup. It's like an Everton fan moaning about a transfer because he's not the sort of player that's going to win them the league.

 

There are some decent players in our squad but they've all had their time. Cappello will make his money now in the lead up to the Euro's, he will need to make some big decisions if he's going to be seen as a success in years to come.

 

Gerrard isn't one of the best attacking midfielders on the planet, I'd say there are at least 30 who are far better. Just look at someone like Iniesta for Spain he's a different class to Gerrard.

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Trader

Trader

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I am not saying it is all down to Capello but he has to take his shre of the blame. We give managers like Bulrye flak for not playing players in their best positions. Rooney plays well up front on his own, Gerrard is one of the best attacking midfielders on the plant and he plays him wide left. Upson had a poor season and he plays him instead of a player who had a great season at Spurs (after saying he would pick form players). I also thought that A Cole had a poor Word Cup considering he is supposed to be one of the best left backs in the world. Just look at his positional play and he was no threat going forward at all. You could see the problems in the USA game and Capello is paid to fix that stuff. It got much worse and the display against the Germans was one of the worst performances I have seen from an English team.

 

Who?

 

I honestly googled that and it said "Did you mean Burley?"

 

Now I know

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

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Hmm, don't know about Walcott. Maybe, maybe not. Agreed about Capello not being spoilt for choice though. Looking back on the squad he took, I think Calamity and [grudgingly] A. Cole were the only players who came out of the tournament with any real credit. I think the occasion got to them. All of them have had the potential to bottle it. You just don't expect them to do it at the same time.

Calamity (along with Upson) screwed up on Germany's first goal.

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Super_Uwe

Super_Uwe

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To be fair, we've gone forward since the wally hung up his brolly.

 

Ah yes, the Wally with the Brolly who's just won the Dutch title and is now basking in the glory of being one of Europe's most in-demand club managers and is about to have a crack at the Bundesliga as well...

 

It's a funny old game.

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hutch

hutch

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A few years ago, that...

 

We would miss Owen Hargreaves so much?

That Emile Hesley would still play?

That Wayne Rooney would be one of the worst performers in an England shirt?

That we would have one of Europe's top managers in charge, pay him so much money and that he would keep his job after making so many mistakes?

Or that Mathew Upson would be England's top goalscorer at the tournament.

 

Well, joint top, anyway.

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benjii

benjii

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The same system and players who done so well in qualifying.

 

.

 

No it wasn't.

 

That's what I really don't understand and why Capello made a hash of it (although the players made as much if not more of a hash of it).

 

When we were at our best we played with one striker and two wide men playing off him. For some reason Capello regressed to a completely unimaginative, preditcable and simplistic 4-4-2 for the World Cup.

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benjii

benjii

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Capello and Sven are both top managers. Its not their fault that the England players egos exceed their commitment to playing for their country.

 

Sven was clueless when it came to tournament play. We would've beaten Portugal in 2006 if he'd had a bit more bottle.

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Frank's cousin

Frank's cousin

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Ah yes, the Wally with the Brolly who's just won the Dutch title and is now basking in the glory of being one of Europe's most in-demand club managers and is about to have a crack at the Bundesliga as well...

 

It's a funny old game.

 

Agreed.. he may have looked out of touch with the brolly, but I think he has also learned a hell of a lot from working abroad - probably helped by players who are hungry, have technical skills on teh ball that ALLOW for more variation in approach and tactics... we are sadly so one dimensional - a failure that is bread into players, through placing too much emphasis on strength and pace, rather than technical abilty and confidence on the ball... our playesr are made to look better than they are in the prem, because of the quality foreign players IMHO... oh and having a media that in effect whould never support teh manager, trusting in a blend of hand experience...

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Andy_Porter

Andy_Porter

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No it wasn't.

 

That's what I really don't understand and why Capello made a hash of it (although the players made as much if not more of a hash of it).

 

When we were at our best we played with one striker and two wide men playing off him. For some reason Capello regressed to a completely unimaginative, preditcable and simplistic 4-4-2 for the World Cup.

 

When was this? during the majority of the qualifying Gerrard was on the left and Rooney was just behind Heskey, I don't remember us ever playing anything else.

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

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Sven was clueless when it came to tournament play. We would've beaten Portugal in 2006 if he'd had a bit more bottle.

 

Dont agree.

 

He came out of a tough group with The Argies,Sweeden and Nigeria in 2002 and got us into the 1/4 final of every tournement. His tournement record was losses to France, Brazil, Portugal (on Pens).

 

Compare that to Saint Bobby Robson's, didn't qualify, lost every game, Semi Final and 1/4 final. Robson lost to Ireland,Portugal (and they were poor then, beating us was their only win) USSR, Holland, Argies and Germany (on Pens).

 

Sven lost one group game (to France), and that was a game with a freak ending , thanks to Heskey and Gerrard.Robson lost 3 in one tournement alone . Robson's hero like status is based on having the fortune to draw a naive Cameroon in the Semi Final after limping out of the gropu and beating Belgium in the last minute.Add into that his failure (like Maclearn) to qualify for his first tournement, his record is vastly over stated at international level.

 

Sven's record stands up against anyones if you take home advantage away.

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JackFrost

JackFrost

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Ah yes, the Wally with the Brolly who's just won the Dutch title and is now basking in the glory of being one of Europe's most in-demand club managers and is about to have a crack at the Bundesliga as well...

 

It's a funny old game.

 

That's because he was actually allowed to manage FC Twente

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

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blaming capello is really bury our heads in the sand...

 

the same group of players did not even make 2008 euros.....why would they suddenly be world beaters

 

Agreed.

 

Since Sir Alf we've had;

 

Don Revie-Great Club Manager, paid great attention to detail with dossiers ect

Ron Greenwood-Gentleman who liked football played the proper way

Bobby Robson-One of the best at club level.

Graham Taylor-Played a "British" style

Terry Venables-Redknapp like figure loved by the players

Glenn Hoddle-Great player, bright tactically aware Manager

Keegan-Enthusiastic, passionate, loves England

Sven-Good club record, foregin, relaxed regime around the players

Maclearn-Good coach,English

Cappello-Great Club record, foregin and runs a tight ship.

 

Therefore we've basically had every type of Manager that it's possible to have, we've had great club managers, English and Foregin and we've reached the grand total of 2 semi finals. One on home soil (I truely believe we should have won Euro '96) and one after pretty ropey performances to get there. Yet, we keep blaming the Managers, we keep sacking them. It's all the Managers fault, The Turnip, The wally with the Brolley, Keegan wasn't up to it, Sven let the players run riot, Cappello was too strict on them. When are the media and the general public going to stop blaming Managers and start looking where the real blame lies, players and the people who run the game.

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sadoldgit

sadoldgit

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blaming capello is really bury our heads in the sand...

 

the same group of players did not even make 2008 euros.....why would they suddenly be world beaters

 

It is down to the manager to get the best of out his players. Do you think he did?

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sadoldgit

sadoldgit

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Gerrard isn't one of the best attacking midfielders on the planet, I'd say there are at least 30 who are far better. Just look at someone like Iniesta for Spain he's a different class to Gerrard.

 

I think he is, look what he has achieved for his club. Name another 29.

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Frank's cousin

Frank's cousin

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Agreed.

 

Since Sir Alf we've had;

 

Don Revie-Great Club Manager, paid great attention to detail with dossiers ect

Ron Greenwood-Gentleman who liked football played the proper way

Bobby Robson-One of the best at club level.

Graham Taylor-Played a "British" style

Terry Venables-Redknapp like figure loved by the players

Glenn Hoddle-Great player, bright tactically aware Manager

Keegan-Enthusiastic, passionate, loves England

Sven-Good club record, foregin, relaxed regime around the players

Maclearn-Good coach,English

Cappello-Great Club record, foregin and runs a tight ship.

 

Therefore we've basically had every type of Manager that it's possible to have, we've had great club managers, English and Foregin and we've reached the grand total of 2 semi finals. One on home soil (I truely believe we should have won Euro '96) and one after pretty ropey performances to get there. Yet, we keep blaming the Managers, we keep sacking them. It's all the Managers fault, The Turnip, The wally with the Brolley, Keegan wasn't up to it, Sven let the players run riot, Cappello was too strict on them. When are the media and the general public going to stop blaming Managers and start looking where the real blame lies, players and the people who run the game.

 

Agree with most of that. For me we should stop blaming - it is afterall just looking for excuses because we are not good enough... at the moment. Its not about Foreigness of coaches, or ong seasons, or even selections, although in playing two players obviously not match fit was a mistake, but mistakes are made and can you imagine the media up roar had Capello left Rooney at home? (which in my view he should have done because as good as he is, he was simply not fit - clear as fecking day.

 

For me, it goes back to what we value in players and how they are coached from an early age - I cant say it enough, the prem is exciting and great not because its 'ENGLISH, but because it attracts great foreign players with the high wages who complement some of the better English players who in turn are made to look better than they are - e buy in the 'creativity' and technical skill and coach strength, and physical pressence.

 

Its therefore no wonder that the secondm, third and forth tiers of the game are often characterised by this in some gcases agreesive, physical style, in which younger devloping players who may not yet have that trength are bundled out of the game... so whereas in Germany teh lower tiers are packed with young players and U21s from bigger clubs coached in a style similar to the BUndeliga, and is thus a proving ground for teh development of players, we have kids who are 'discovered at CCC or L1 and L2 whio are bought by the bigger clubs at 15-16 where they sit on the bench for 4 or 5 years and miss out, then cant get a game anyway... especially if they are smaller and technically skilled rather than tradditional 'english' players.

 

We just have to decide what style we want to play in the future... the same old, and recognise we probably wont compete at international level as 442 is so dead and buried compared to the Germans 4231 or spains 433 etc, as our players do not have teh technical abilty to play that sort of game, OR aim to play like Spain. Start now with kids 12-14, on a national scale (as tehy do in Germany) - align the coaching at the academies, get more Qualified higher level coaching into the kids game, establish a formula that encourages youngsters/u21s to stay with their clubs a bit longer and learn the game

..... oh and get rid of the dinsaurs in the game those old lag coaches in the lower leagues breeding hoof and hope and squeezing the beauty out of the beautiful game

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Johnny Shearer

Johnny Shearer

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I remember the Saints Vs Bayern Munich game at St Marys. Thought the whole match that Ballack was awesome when it dawned on me that is was actually Hargreaves playing. He ran the game imo. Agree completely that if he was fit and form he would have made a big difference to the team.

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Andy_Porter

Andy_Porter

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Gerrard isn't one of the best attacking midfielders on the planet, I'd say there are at least 30 who are far better. Just look at someone like Iniesta for Spain he's a different class to Gerrard.

 

I think he is, look what he has achieved for his club. Name another 29.

 

Achieved for his club? Liverpool have hardly exactly set the world alight, He was fantastic in the FA cup I'll give you that. Worst player on the pitch first half in the CL final but more than made up for that once Hamman came on.

 

Iniesta, Xavi, Alonso, Fabregas, Sneijder, Kaka, Robinho, Uzil, Muller, Schweinsteiger, Lampard, Messi, Di Maria, Ronaldo, Essien, Gourcoff, Arshavin etc

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