Crime and Unemployment Figures

[John B]

The recent Crime and Unemployment Figures show that Labour were doing things right I wonder what these figures are going to be under the Tories.

[SuperMikey]

What can be guaranteed is that if the figures turn out to be bad, it'll be blamed on Labour anyway. That's the Tory way...

[Ponty]

Well, unemployment figures will go up as the fraudsters are weeded off of incapacity benefit, so an initial rise is to be expected. As for crime, well gun crime has certainly gone up lately.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Crime figures are complete and utter Pony, were under the last Tory Govt, the last Labour Govt, and will be for the coalition. Try walking around big cities at night, with **** artists and idiots wandering about, try to tell a group of teenagers to stop swearing or behave themselves, then tell me the streets are safer. Modern alarms on cars, better security in houses and cheaper electrical goods (TV's, DVD's ect) have forced burglary rates down, not anything any Govt's done.

[RedAndWhite91]

Never trust Government statistics, they can be misconstrued and set up in so many ways to suit certain agendas.

[dune]

Given the banking crisis, and Labours incompetent borrowing levels, crime is now bound to rise as we cut back to repair the mess.

[Turkish]

if crime has dropped how come prisions are at an all time high population and twice what they were 15 years ago?

[AndyNorthernSaints]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jul/15/budget-cuts-threatens-police-jobs

 

Don't think that this will help.

[CB Saint]

Some bloke on 5 Live said that the ONS don't measure all crime just certain crimes. The methodology for measuring crime has also changed several times over the last 30 years. The police also measure crime but not the same ones as the ONS and neither record recently criminlised actions such internet fraud. Who knows what's right

[Johnny Bognor]

The recent Crime and Unemployment Figures show that Labour were doing things right I wonder what these figures are going to be under the Tories.

 

If you borrow a shed load of money to employ people in non-jobs within the public sector, it is bound to keep the unemployment figures down. The problem is that that money has to pay back.

 

When you find out that your neighbour who has a brand new car, loads of new clothes and fancy holidays has loans coming out of his ears and £20k+ on his credit card, he doesn't look so flash afterall. Same difference really.....

[Saintandy666]

I love how people just ignore facts and figures when they come out. The fact is under the Tories, crime went up. Under Labour, it went down 43% and it's not hard to see why with the proper and useful investment the police were given in addition to other social programmes bringing countless people out of poverty.

[dune]

I love how people just ignore facts and figures when they come out. The fact is under the Tories, crime went up. Under Labour, it went down 43% and it's not hard to see why with the proper and useful investment the police were given in addition to other social programmes bringing countless people out of poverty.

 

I fail to see how accumulating the largest peacetime debt will help the poor. The fact of the matter is that the combination of the banking crisis and Labours frittering approach to finances will undoubtedly hurt everyone including the poor.

[Lord Duckhunter]

The facts and figures ignored, are not worth the paper they're written on. I had my bike stolen last month, didn't even bother reporting it. I knew the Police would do nothing so didn't see the point. How many other crimes of a similar nature aren't reported. If we banged up all the people drunk and disorderly in town centres, after taking advantage of Labours relaxing of the licencing laws, the figures would soon shoot up.Crime figures are meaningless until every offense is dealt with and every crime reported.

[Saintandy666]

The facts and figures ignored, are not worth the paper they're written on. I had my bike stolen last month, didn't even bother reporting it. I knew the Police would do nothing so didn't see the point. How many other crimes of a similar nature aren't reported. If we banged up all the people drunk and disorderly in town centres, after taking advantage of Labours relaxing of the licencing laws, the figures would soon shoot up.Crime figures are meaningless until every offense is dealt with and every crime reported.

 

I'm sure it was the same back in the 80's and 90's. You can't comment on overall trends based on one individual event. I feel like I'm back in year 11 geography class where people try to argue against climate change based on one cold day.

[Saint George]

I love how people just ignore facts and figures when they come out. The fact is under the Tories, crime went up. Under Labour, it went down 43% and it's not hard to see why with the proper and useful investment the police were given in addition to other social programmes bringing countless people out of poverty.

 

No Sir.....The crime "figures" went down....But the last time i checked the 'victim rate' had shot through the roof

 

It doesn't take much intelligence to see what happened there.... especially if you took note of the list of crimes that have become 'non recordable' over the last 12 years.....heh, someone must of assumed the public would be to dim and gullible to notice.................

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Given the banking crisis, and Labours incompetent borrowing levels, crime is now bound to rise as we cut back to repair the mess.

 

This isn't the point is it?! The thread was started on the crime figures and how they dropped under Labour, that is a fact back up with figures. IF the crime figures now rise we can analyse why at a later date.

Edited 16 July, 2010 by Thorpe-le-Saint

[Saintandy666]

No Sir.....The crime "figures" went down....But the last time i checked the 'victim rate' had shot through the roof

 

It doesn't take much intelligence to see what happened there.... especially if you took note of the list of crimes that have become 'non recordable' over the last 12 years.....heh, someone must of assumed the public would be to dim and gullible to notice.................

 

Which crimes are now unrecordable? I want links from a reliable source.

 

Also...

 

'It found that the risk of being a victim of crime fell to 22% - one percentage point less than the previous historic low.' Do you mean this by 'victim rate'? - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8472007.stm The figures don't lie.

[dune]

This isn't the point is it?! The thread was started on the crime figures and how they dropped under Labour, that is a fact back up with figures. IF the crime figures now rise we can analyse why at a later date.

 

Of course it's the point. If you throw money at something (including provisions for more custododial sentances) then it should improve a given situation. The country is now in the hangover period from 13 years of Labour and we have two choices - the hair of the dog or recovery. As much as i'd like to see the same level of spending directed towards fighting crime (as well as directed towards other public services) it simply cannot happen because we're broke. If and when crime rises it will be Labours fault because it's Labour that racked up the debt which made the banking crisis even more catastrophic which has made a situation where more people will steal to get by, and Labour that have ensured less money is available to fight criminals and to take them out of circulation. The next 20 years of this countries woes will be Labours fault.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Which crimes are now unrecordable? I want links from a reliable source.

 

 

 

The figures don't lie.

 

On QT last night Francis Maude gave a whole list of crimes that weren't included in the lastest figures, included in this was shop lifting.Now the panel had a very left bias, with Traitor George Galloway,The speakers wierd wife and Andy Burnham, none of them picked him up and neither did Dimble. I know for a fact that a very large store near me issue banning orders to people they catch shop lifting, rather than call the police.

[buctootim]

You guys have missed the point. This isnt official police recorded figures of crime - it is the British Crime Survey - ie asking people what crime they have experienced in the past year, not simply what crimes they have reported. Crimehas been dropping consistently. Like child abductions, people perception of risk is totally out of proportion to reality.

[Saintandy666]

On QT last night Francis Maude gave a whole list of crimes that weren't included in the lastest figures, included in this was shop lifting.Now the panel had a very left bias, with Traitor George Galloway,The speakers wierd wife and Andy Burnham, none of them picked him up and neither did Dimble. I know for a fact that a very large store near me issue banning orders to people they catch shop lifting, rather than call the police.

 

Still doesn't disprove the figures I have obtained from an unbias source. Francis Maude has an agenda, the crime survey and the BBC do not(and please don't give me some the BBC are left wing ********!). I can tell you from my own experience that my friend who has been caught twice shoplifting had the police called twice. You can't justify trends based on personal examples.

[Saint George]

Still doesn't disprove the figures I have obtained from an unbias source. Francis Maude has an agenda, the crime survey and the BBC do not(and please don't give me some the BBC are left wing ********!). I can tell you from my own experience that my friend who has been caught twice shoplifting had the police called twice. You can't justify trends based on personal examples.

 

There ya go...that's 2 crimes right there that would have been recorded as such a decade or so ago

 

So real life experience on this thread has shown the crime rate drop 200% during the socialist's power trip....didn't they do well

[Saintandy666]

There ya go...that's 2 crimes right there that would have been recorded as such a decade or so ago

 

So real life experience on this thread has shown the crime rate drop 200% during the socialist's power trip....didn't they do well

 

It got recorded as crime? The police were called... and it was put down on his record. So what the hell are you on about?! But like I said again, this proves absolutely nothing, just as Ducks a shop down town never calls the police proves nothing.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Of course it's the point. If you throw money at something (including provisions for more custododial sentances) then it should improve a given situation. The country is now in the hangover period from 13 years of Labour and we have two choices - the hair of the dog or recovery. As much as i'd like to see the same level of spending directed towards fighting crime (as well as directed towards other public services) it simply cannot happen because we're broke. If and when crime rises it will be Labours fault because it's Labour that racked up the debt which made the banking crisis even more catastrophic which has made a situation where more people will steal to get by, and Labour that have ensured less money is available to fight criminals and to take them out of circulation. The next 20 years of this countries woes will be Labours fault.

 

I also heard that Hitler and the plague was Labour's fault too!

[Lord Duckhunter]

It got recorded as crime? The police were called... and it was put down on his record. So what the hell are you on about?! But like I said again, this proves absolutely nothing, just as Ducks a shop down town never calls the police proves nothing.

 

But it's not recorded in the crime figures.

 

Both Labour, Tories, and I've no doubt the new Coalition have skewed crime figures so much that they are pretty meaningless. It is not just Govt policy that effects crime figures and it is disingenuous for parties to continue to claim that it is. Modern security devices on cars and in homes, shops and offices make it harder to commit crime. The economic conditions play a part, the amount of crime that is just not reported does as well. My bike being stolen was a crime, but it was never reported.Things that were reported years ago, are now not in the crime figures.

 

30 years ago a group of youngsters misbehaving would have been told to behave. Nowadays any adult doing so risks being set upon or insulted. Therefore, most just walk on by, turning a blind eye.Do not try to tell me the streets are safer than they were 30 years ago. The risk to older school children being knifed or even shot is less than it was 30 years ago, or it's safer for women to walk through our cities late at night on their own is safer than it was 30 years ago.Our cars and homes are safer, not because of any Govt policy, but because they have alarms, CCTV and other such devices.

[Saintandy666]

But it's not recorded in the crime figures.

 

Both Labour, Tories, and I've no doubt the new Coalition have skewed crime figures so much that they are pretty meaningless. It is not just Govt policy that effects crime figures and it is disingenuous for parties to continue to claim that it is. Modern security devices on cars and in homes, shops and offices make it harder to commit crime. The economic conditions play a part, the amount of crime that is just not reported does as well. My bike being stolen was a crime, but it was never reported.Things that were reported years ago, are now not in the crime figures.

 

30 years ago a group of youngsters misbehaving would have been told to behave. Nowadays any adult doing so risks being set upon or insulted. Therefore, most just walk on by, turning a blind eye.Do not try to tell me the streets are safer than they were 30 years ago. The risk to older school children being knifed or even shot is less than it was 30 years ago, or it's safer for women to walk through our cities late at night on their own is safer than it was 30 years ago.Our cars and homes are safer, not because of any Govt policy, but because they have alarms, CCTV and other such devices.

 

Perception of crime and how safe people feel is meaningless in this argument as well. Other factors and cultural changes have caused that. The simple fact is crime has fallen, therefore the streets are safer whether people feel like it or not.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Perception of crime and how safe people feel is meaningless in this argument as well. Other factors and cultural changes have caused that. The simple fact is crime has fallen, therefore the streets are safer whether people feel like it or not.

 

What people keep trying to tell you is that it's impossible to tell whether crime has indeed fallen, because until we have a meaningful measure it's always going to be open to debate.Fear of crime is a pointless measure because everyone's circumstances are different. Recorded crimes is meaningless for the many reasons listed earlier. Crime figures are just a political football kicked around for the past 50 years and no doubt for the next 50 years. I guess the only measure that really counts is people's crosses at the General Election and suggust that if people really did believe crime had fallen so much as a result of Labour policies, would not have comprehensively rejected them by so much at the ballot box.

[Saintandy666]

What people keep trying to tell you is that it's impossible to tell whether crime has indeed fallen, because until we have a meaningful measure it's always going to be open to debate.Fear of crime is a pointless measure because everyone's circumstances are different. Recorded crimes is meaningless for the many reasons listed earlier. Crime figures are just a political football kicked around for the past 50 years and no doubt for the next 50 years. I guess the only measure that really counts is people's crosses at the General Election and suggust that if people really did believe crime had fallen so much as a result of Labour policies, would not have comprehensively rejected them by so much at the ballot box.

 

Labour was not completely rejected at the ballot box though. Only 2m less than the Tories, which when you consider 30m voted isn't a total rejection. In fact the tories were only 3.9m million ahead of the Liberal Democrats. They kept Labour in for 13 years which is an extremely long amount of time and really a very long life for any government. Your problem is that all statistics are wrong unless they support that the conservatives are right.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Labour was not completely rejected at the ballot box though. Only 2m less than the Tories, which when you consider 30m voted isn't a total rejection. In fact the tories were only 3.9m million ahead of the Liberal Democrats.

 

Labour lost more seats than at any General Election since 1931.

The Conservatives exceed Labour’s 2005 figure in number of votes.

Labour were rejected by The English, with the Tories having an overall majority of 60 (roll on independence) after putting Labour,Greens and Lib Dems together.

 

Strange set of results when they were doing such a good job of keeping crime down, protecting public services and protecting us from total finacial meltdown.Perhaps had they spent more time on governing instead of fighting each other, they may have held onto more seats.

 

It's not a question of Tory or Labour crime figures. When it come to crime, they are both as bad as each other, as there is no reliable method of recording Govt actions against drops in crime numbers..

[Saintandy666]

Labour lost more seats than at any General Election since 1931.

The Conservatives exceed Labour’s 2005 figure in number of votes.

Labour were rejected by The English, with the Tories having an overall majority of 60 (roll on independence) after putting Labour,Greens and Lib Dems together.

 

Strange set of results when they were doing such a good job of keeping crime down, protecting public services and protecting us from total finacial meltdown.Perhaps had they spent more time on governing instead of fighting each other, they may have held onto more seats.

 

It's not a question of Tory or Labour crime figures. When it come to crime, they are both as bad as each other, as there is no reliable method of recording Govt actions against drops in crime numbers..

 

Most governments change after such a long period stuff always goes wrong and everyone gets fed up.

 

And I refuse to look at seats as that doesn't show how people are voting at all. All I see is a party that got nowhere near 50% of the votes needed for in my mind to 'win' and command the majority viewpoint. No-one won this election, and our whole system is a tonne of bull**** that promotes a rule by the plurality.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Most governments change after such a long period stuff always goes wrong and everyone gets fed up.

 

And I refuse to look at seats as that doesn't show how people are voting at all. All I see is a party that got nowhere near 50% of the votes needed for in my mind to 'win' and command the majority viewpoint. No-one won this election, and our whole system is a tonne of bull**** that promotes a rule by the plurality.

 

Do you think it's unfair that The Tories got more votes than Labour did in '05 and had to form a coalition, Labour with less votes won a landslide?

[Saintandy666]

Do you think it's unfair that The Tories got more votes than Labour did in '05 and had to form a coalition, Labour with less votes won a landslide?

 

Yes, I do. I want STV or maybe even AMS. I think the current voting system is rubbish. However, I guess you are a supporter of FPTP... so if you are you can't moan about it's erratic nature. You shouldn't get a landslide with 35% of the vote.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I'm not moaning about it, I was just wondering if you thought it unfair in both ways. It seems a lot of Labour supporters/MP's have all of a sudden become converted to the unfairness of it. I didn't recall too many pleading for a fairer system when it delivered them 3 landslides.

[Saintandy666]

I'm not moaning about it, I was just wondering if you thought it unfair in both ways. It seems a lot of Labour supporters/MP's have all of a sudden become converted to the unfairness of it. I didn't recall too many pleading for a fairer system when it delivered them 3 landslides.

 

Well, neither of Labour or Tories like a change in the system because it suits them as they are. They know that at a max every 15 years or so they can take it in turns to run the country. The only reason they started bleating on about it was because they needed a stick to wave in front of Liberal Democrats for the election. FPTP works reasonably well in a two party system, but in a system where 35% of people don't vote for the main two parties, it fails dramatically.

[dune]

Yes, I do. I want STV or maybe even AMS. I think the current voting system is rubbish. However, I guess you are a supporter of FPTP... so if you are you can't moan about it's erratic nature. You shouldn't get a landslide with 35% of the vote.

 

Despite being a member of UKIP I will be voting for no change in the voting system.

[Saintandy666]

Despite being a member of UKIP I will be voting for no change in the voting system.

 

First Past the Post is a stupid system, totally unfair, disproportionate and it allows the fews opinions dominate the manys.

[boxosponge]

Which crimes are now unrecordable? I want links from a reliable source.

 

Also...

 

'It found that the risk of being a victim of crime fell to 22% - one percentage point less than the previous historic low.' Do you mean this by 'victim rate'? - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8472007.stm The figures don't lie.

 

Police recorded crime statistics cover all ‘notifiable’ offences recorded by the police. This does not mean all criminal offences, as almost all the more minor summary offences are excluded (even though the police may record them for their own investigations). The term ‘notifiable’ covers offences that are notified to the Home Office, and they are collectively known as ‘recorded crime’.

http://rds.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/recordedcrime1.html

[Saintandy666]

Police recorded crime statistics cover all ‘notifiable’ offences recorded by the police. This does not mean all criminal offences, as almost all the more minor summary offences are excluded (even though the police may record them for their own investigations). The term ‘notifiable’ covers offences that are notified to the Home Office, and they are collectively known as ‘recorded crime’.

http://rds.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/recordedcrime1.html

 

No-one can deny that all these types of crime have fallen dramatically under Labour after a rise under the last Tory government.

[dune]

First Past the Post is a stupid system, totally unfair, disproportionate and it allows the fews opinions dominate the manys.

 

It also means that the Liberals will always be on the fringe wheras with PR they could grow as a party and get momentum and lose the tag of being "a wasted vote". Keep the Liberals as a fringe party I say and keep FPTP. If you're a Conservative voter or a Labour voter it's in your interests to keep FPTP.

[buctootim]

Keep the Liberals as a fringe party I say and keep FPTP. If you're a Conservative voter or a Labour voter it's in your interests to keep FPTP.

 

You havent quite got the hang of this democracy lark have you?

[Saintandy666]

It also means that the Liberals will always be on the fringe wheras with PR they could grow as a party and get momentum and lose the tag of being "a wasted vote". Keep the Liberals as a fringe party I say and keep FPTP. If you're a Conservative voter or a Labour voter it's in your interests to keep FPTP.

 

Wow, way democratic there...

[sadoldgit]

Whether they were doing things right I don't know. I do know that cutting the funding to the police and the Criminal Justice System in general (I work for the CPS) is not going to help the crime figures or serve "justice." We are working on a shoestring as it is. If you read The Guardian the other day you will see that crime, whether it increases or decreases, will not be dealt with effectively under this Government.

[dune]

Whether they were doing things right I don't know. I do know that cutting the funding to the police and the Criminal Justice System in general (I work for the CPS) is not going to help the crime figures or serve "justice." We are working on a shoestring as it is. If you read The Guardian the other day you will see that crime, whether it increases or decreases, will not be dealt with effectively under this Government.

 

And which government racked up the deficit that has put us in this mess? All the woes this country finds itself in lead back to Labour.

[solentstars]

You havent quite got the hang of this democracy lark have you?

 

ist not a suprise i expect he would take the votes away from women if he got a chance ,he never support a proper and represtentive voting system ,he would like a one party state i suspect.