UK in a mess!

[RedAndWhite91]

I will respond to this to make a point. Children are innocent in their views on the whole, unless they are very intelligent at a young age their opinions and ideas are often formed by their parents so any controversial comments can be ignored or disregarded. There is never an excuse to lose your temper or swear at a child because of an idea they express.

 

Aduls on the hand are a different kettle of fish. They should know better and if I feel they are inherently wrong on a topic I will tell them in no uncertain terms what I think, as demonstrated on this thread.

 

Therein lies the difference Wes, dune is an adult.

 

You also need to remember that my political beliefs actively promote inclusion in education so it can never be said that my beliefs would hamper the progress of any pupil.

 

I hope you teach your pupils the importance of tolerating other people's opinions.

[dune]

I've tried behaving like an adult in responses with this 'man' yet his complete unwillingness to consider sensibly any reply I put forward and then have the cheek to accuse me of being childish after this ****tard, rather than reply with commets on the facts, comments on things that are totally irrelevant is beyond crap.

 

I'm not going to respond to your little tantrum, but will address this point. I do consider your responses, but by and large I consider them mostly to be wrong. I then tell you why I think you're wrong. As Wes points out the previous Conservative government inherritted a country that had to go cap in hand to the IMF - we were the sick man of Europe and the Conservatives had to take the tough decisions that put us back on our feet.

[Fuengirola Saint]

I'm not going to respond to your little tantrum, but will address this point. I do consider your responses, but by and large I consider them mostly to be wrong. I then tell you why I think you're wrong. As Wes points out the previous Conservative government inherritted a country that had to go cap in hand to the IMF - we were the sick man of Europe and the Conservatives had to take the tough decisions that put us back on our feet.

 

It depends which way you look at things, for me, the country the Conservatives inherited in 1979 wasn't that bad,for example inflation had fallen to 8.9% from 28.9% ( which imo was caused by the oil crisis and the Barber boom ) unemployment falling after rising to stratospheric level of 1.8 million. ;-) Then we all know what happened after that don't we?

[suewhistle]

Your views on this forum are often slanted very much towards the left ...

 

Not particularly, in my opinion, they just stand out amongst the many right wing views on here.

 

Plus I wouldn't get too hung up about the UK. Nobody would move to Italy for example to earn more money or keep more of it from the taxman - unless you are a politician or corrupt businessman, in which area we're well provided for over here. Same with Spain, Portugal, Latvia or Greece, anyone??

 

As for manufacturing I'm sure our Sheffield friend has something to say about it: Sheffield Forgemasters ring any bells? And if anything does get invented here it won't be built here because the banks don't do long term and nor do the owners: they cash in as soon as possible. It wasn't the workers that were the downfall of our car industry but the bad management at the top and lack of investment. Those car workers in Sunderland are very productive, but there's no British owned company left.

Lack of investment in our railways over years left us catching up and with no indigenous rail manufacturing capacity either.

[Fuengirola Saint]

Not particularly, in my opinion, they just stand out amongst the many right wing views on here.

 

Plus I wouldn't get too hung up about the UK. Nobody would move to Italy for example to earn more money or keep more of it from the taxman - unless you are a politician or corrupt businessman, in which area we're well provided for over here. Same with Spain, Portugal, Latvia or Greece, anyone??

 

As for manufacturing I'm sure our Sheffield friend has something to say about it: Sheffield Forgemasters ring any bells? And if anything does get invented here it won't be built here because the banks don't do long term and nor do the owners: they cash in as soon as possible. It wasn't the workers that were the downfall of our car industry but the bad management at the top and lack of investment. Those car workers in Sunderland are very productive, but there's no British owned company left.

Lack of investment in our railways over years left us catching up and with no indigenous rail manufacturing capacity either.

 

Well said! This is the problem with British capitalism, it is always the short term quick buck option they go for. Why for example has Germany with powerful trade unions and higher labour costs got such a good manufacturing base compared to ours? INVESTMENT, not only in plant but in people as well.

[Wes Tender]

Well said! This is the problem with British capitalism, it is always the short term quick buck option they go for. Why for example has Germany with powerful trade unions and higher labour costs got such a good manufacturing base compared to ours? INVESTMENT, not only in plant but in people as well.

 

 

When you say always, do you mean right back to the Industrial Revolution? There was always plenty of investment available then to turn us into the World's greatest manufacturer of all sorts of things. I suspect that you mean during our living memory, which was a period during which higher unit labour costs here meant that we lost a large slice of our manufacturing industry to those countries with lower unit labour costs and a more placid and compliant workforce.

 

Suewhistle:

It wasn't the workers that were the downfall of our car industry but the bad management at the top and lack of investment. Those car workers in Sunderland are very productive, but there's no British owned company left.

 

The workforce in the British Car Industry was particularly Bolshie and was notorious for restrictive practices and overmanning brought about by too powerful unions. The management was powerless against them and investment in the car industry would have been like investing in Pompey; pouring money down the drain. In any event, the major part of the British car industry was Nationalised by Labour, so there was the investment of British taxpayers money into it, not that it did any good.

 

Sunderland is a shining example of what the British workforce is capable of after the power of the Trade Unions had been broken and the local skilled population recognised that they were in the last chance saloon, that they either made a go of it, or they would be on the scrap heap. I would risk derision by stating that the Nissan made at Sunderland is probably as well made as the German cars. I am not comparing technology, just the manufacturing process. If you wish to make manfacturing comparisons based on technology, then we are capable of standards amongst the World's elite in fields like Aerospace, the Rolls Royce engines being a prime example.

 

There is a British owned car manufacturer, Morgan, although I could understand that because it is a small player, you didn't count it.

[Fuengirola Saint]

When you say always, do you mean right back to the Industrial Revolution? There was always plenty of investment available then to turn us into the World's greatest manufacturer of all sorts of things. I suspect that you mean during our living memory, which was a period during which higher unit labour costs here meant that we lost a large slice of our manufacturing industry to those countries with lower unit labour costs and a more placid and compliant workforce.

 

I meant from the 70's onwards, labour costs are not the problem as my example of Germany shows, it's the business culture in Britain i.e short termism, greed and downright incompetence. It's like football, if the Germans can do it why can't we?

[Thedelldays]

how on earth is the UK in such a mess (more so than other leading nations) after the biggest boom in our recent history (remember, no more boom and bust)

 

what measures did broooown have in place to ensure the bad days were looked after..?

 

add to the mass unemployment, labour thought it would be great if we allowed the UK to be flooded with immigrants (uncontrolled)....did they ask the people..?...now, we cant control those that come in from europe..however, those we share common culture with and share the same bloody head of state with are going to be controlled...seeing as they are the only ones we can in order to stop filling up the UK...

 

nice one..no matter what you point back to with the tories in administrations gone by...this is one monumental fuk up with no comparison by labour...

what makes it funnier, the leading slime that lead us to this cant wait to rush out and make money from their "memoirs" or go against everthing they stood for (got votes for) and take up the odd lordship or so...

 

 

did labour do good things..? yes, course they did....however, their legacy will not be remembered in a good way...no way

 

 

edit - the more I think about it, the more it appears that the last labour lot were nothing but a sick experiment..

Edited 11 July, 2010 by Thedelldays

[bridge too far]

I saw a very interesting interview with Anatole Kaletsky this morning. He has just published a book 'Capitalism 4.0' in which he talks about the latest recession and the reasons for it. I haven't read the book yet, but I did find this interesting excerpt:

 

http://www.amazon.com/reader/1586488716?_encoding=UTF8&ref_=si_aps_sup&qid=1278841851&page=random#reader_1586488716

 

He is an editor at the Times, so hardly a revolutionary . He posits that Regan and Thatcher had a lot to answer for and he also praises Gordon Brown for being the first to realise that state support for the banking system was required to avoid a major meltdown in global finance.

 

I'm looking forward to reading his book.

[aintforever]

Ihe also praises Gordon Brown for being the first to realise that state support for the banking system was required to avoid a major meltdown in global finance.

 

Probably because the UK would be more ****ed than anyone else if the banks collapsed - because of Brown.

[bridge too far]

Probably because the UK would be more ****ed than anyone else if the banks collapsed - because of Brown.

 

I haven't read the book yet but I did read the excerpt on the Amazon link I posted above.

 

Have you read his book or the excerpt? He certainly is a well-respected economist.

[Redondo Saint]

how on earth is the UK in such a mess (more so than other leading nations) after the biggest boom in our recent history (remember, no more boom and bust)

 

what measures did broooown have in place to ensure the bad days were looked after..?

 

add to the mass unemployment, labour thought it would be great if we allowed the UK to be flooded with immigrants (uncontrolled)....did they ask the people..?...now, we cant control those that come in from europe..however, those we share common culture with and share the same bloody head of state with are going to be controlled...seeing as they are the only ones we can in order to stop filling up the UK...

 

nice one..no matter what you point back to with the tories in administrations gone by...this is one monumental fuk up with no comparison by labour...

what makes it funnier, the leading slime that lead us to this cant wait to rush out and make money from their "memoirs" or go against everthing they stood for (got votes for) and take up the odd lordship or so...

 

 

did labour do good things..? yes, course they did....however, their legacy will not be remembered in a good way...no way

 

 

edit - the more I think about it, the more it appears that the last labour lot were nothing but a sick experiment..

 

 

What a sad post.

 

Unforunately I totally agree.