UK in a mess!

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Can't you do this via PM?

 

I think that Ponty is happy to do it in the open, hence his comment?

[AndyNorthernSaints]

Not every time he voices an opinion is it trolling, ESB. In this instance he's at least partially correct anyway.

 

You mean the last government were socialists and Labour are scum? I can see why Stanley is allowed to post his WUM posts now :-(

[dune]

30% of GDP in the South East comes from financial services (no I dont work in that sector)

 

I wasn't aware of the figure, but that is a huge %age and it illustrates why the banking sector cannot be scared off. If and when we re-build a manufacturing base they maybe we can be more firm, but atm they have the whip hand over us and away from the fantasy Island of of those calling for huge taxes and penalties for bankers we simply can't afford to rock the boat.

[Ponty]

I think that Ponty is happy to do it in the open, hence his comment?

 

I was responding to your post in the open, about his post being trolling and being reported. All I said was that he's at least partially correct and that not every post is trolling.

[Ponty]

You mean the last government were socialists and Labour are scum? I can see why Stanley is allowed to post his WUM posts now :-(

 

"Partially correct".

[dune]

You mean the last government were socialists and Labour are scum? I can see why Stanley is allowed to post his WUM posts now :-(

 

When you and others talk about how good it will be when Mrs T dies it annoys me because I think she was national hero and one of the greatest Prime Ministers we've ever had, but that's alright though because it's your view.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

When you and others talk about how good it will be when Mrs T dies it annoys me because I think she was national hero and one of the greatest Prime Ministers we've ever had, but that's alright though because it's your view.

 

Sometimes you draw an equal response from others. On other occasions you just get stuck in without any need for it during a discussion. Today's use of scum was, IMHO, such a time and therefore trolling.

[dune]

Sometimes you draw an equal response from others. On other occasions you just get stuck in without any need for it during a discussion. Today's use of scum was, IMHO, such a time and therefore trolling.

 

And what about :

 

She declared war on the working class people of this country destroying communities and peoples lives. Millions of people have a Thatcher fund built up over the years to help them celebrate when the ***** dies.

 

On my thread about how nice it was see Mrs T back at number 10?

[buctootim]

I wasn't aware of the figure, but that is a huge %age and it illustrates why the banking sector cannot be scared off. If and when we re-build a manufacturing base they maybe we can be more firm, but atm they have the whip hand over us and away from the fantasy Island of of those calling for huge taxes and penalties for bankers we simply can't afford to rock the boat.

 

I cant see mass manufacturing ever returning to the UK. We simply cant compete with China and other developing nations on costs. The UK has retreated into high tech / skills, capital intensive industries for overseas earnings - investment banking, insurance, areonautics, pharmaceuticals and IT and a few niches like Formula 1. Give it 20 years and Chinese univesities will provide the skills necessary to take those from us too. I can see only two options - either we are royally ****ed, or global free trade will break down and the world will retreat into trading blocks, imposing high tariffs on imported goods.

[dune]

I cant see mass manufacturing ever returning to the UK. We simply cant compete with China and other developing nations on costs. The UK has retreated into high tech / skills, capital intensive industries for overseas earnings - investment banking, insurance, areonautics, pharmaceuticals and IT and a few niches like Formula 1. Give it 20 years and Chinese univesities will provide the skills necessary to take those from us too. I can see only two options - either we are royally ****ed, or global free trade will break down and the world will retreat into trading blocks, imposing high tariffs on imported goods.

 

"Let China sleep for when she awakes, she will shake the world" Napoleon Bonaparte. If only we'd heeded the advice.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

And what about :

 

 

 

On my thread about how nice it was see Mrs T back at number 10?

 

Did you not report it? That's what the little triangle with an exclamation mark is for.

 

I use it so that the mods get to deal with trolling rather than it get drawn out.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

"Let China sleep for when she awakes, she will shake the world" Napoleon Bonaparte. If only we'd heeded the advice.

 

Well, we heeded some of it because we are now only a nation of shopkeepers.

[aintforever]

I wasn't aware of the figure, but that is a huge %age and it illustrates why the banking sector cannot be scared off. If and when we re-build a manufacturing base they maybe we can be more firm, but atm they have the whip hand over us and away from the fantasy Island of of those calling for huge taxes and penalties for bankers we simply can't afford to rock the boat.

 

Thats the problem, our government has come to rely on the banks making a fortune but sooner or later they are going to have to be brought into line. If the banks are not sorted out we are just going to see a repeat of what happened before.

[Redondo Saint]

Yes, it's called the right to resign and find another job somewhere else.

 

I really find your post quite incredible bearing in mind the recession and everything else going on.

 

Unless I have missed your humour.....

[Saint George]

Not trolling? he's a sad pathetic WUM who probably still lives at home. Calling Labour government Socialists and scum each day/week as well as slagging off any one on benefits or working in the public sector. All this from a well known racist.

 

Well, considering the Socialist's and the Labour Government, with their bloated Benefits system and unchecked public sector jobs (including those for the no hopers) have ****ed every last drop of wealth in the UK up the wall...What other names would fit the bill?

 

It's no good crying about it now..... And to blame it all on the bankers is a joke and soooo typically socialist......Must have someone else to blame. Personal responsibility just doesn't exist within a socialistic benefits culture. Where peeps just expect the Government to do everything from stopping y'all from "poking your eye out with that" to filling your palm with silver every time you hold your hand out for more.

 

Most of the world is in a bad shape right now..."rioting" and "taking action" is not the answer...You need to get past the 'child holding his hand out for pocket money' syndrome....."There is no more money left". Not only that, but the UK is also mortgaged up to the hilt......Not sure how many more times some of y'all need to be told before it will sink in.

The only way to get over this, is to roll your sleeves up and go out and 'create' some wealth...Because like it or not......It's time to pay the piper.

[dune]

Did you not report it? That's what the little triangle with an exclamation mark is for.

 

I use it so that the mods get to deal with trolling rather than it get drawn out.

 

No, and I won't ever report a post.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

No, and I won't ever report a post.

 

Each to his own.

[dune]

Thats the problem, our government has come to rely on the banks making a fortune but sooner or later they are going to have to be brought into line. If the banks are not sorted out we are just going to see a repeat of what happened before.

 

The exact same thing happened in the 20's with the Wall Street crash. Nothing will change because humanities course is pre ordained due to the concupiscence caused by the original sin of Adam.

[buctootim]

Well, considering the Socialist's and the Labour Government, with their bloated Benefits system and unchecked public sector jobs (including those for the no hopers) have ****ed every last drop of wealth in the UK up the wall...What other names would fit the bill?

 

It's no good crying about it now..... And to blame it all on the bankers is a joke and soooo typically socialist......Must have someone else to blame. Personal responsibility just doesn't exist within a socialistic benefits culture. Where peeps just expect the Government to do everything from stopping y'all from "poking your eye out with that" to filling your palm with silver every time you hold your hand out for more.

 

Most of the world is in a bad shape right now..."rioting" and "taking action" is not the answer...You need to get past the 'child holding his hand out for pocket money' syndrome....."There is no more money left". Not only that, but the UK is also mortgaged up to the hilt......Not sure how many more times some of y'all need to be told before it will sink in.

The only way to get over this, is to roll your sleeves up and go out and 'create' some wealth...Because like it or not......It's time to pay the piper.

 

Erm. You do know that the US is the biggest debtor in the history of the world? The US is facing an even more uncertain future than the UK and the EU.

[dune]

Well, considering the Socialist's and the Labour Government, with their bloated Benefits system and unchecked public sector jobs (including those for the no hopers) have ****ed every last drop of wealth in the UK up the wall...What other names would fit the bill?

 

It's no good crying about it now..... And to blame it all on the bankers is a joke and soooo typically socialist......Must have someone else to blame. Personal responsibility just doesn't exist within a socialistic benefits culture. Where peeps just expect the Government to do everything from stopping y'all from "poking your eye out with that" to filling your palm with silver every time you hold your hand out for more.

 

Most of the world is in a bad shape right now..."rioting" and "taking action" is not the answer...You need to get past the 'child holding his hand out for pocket money' syndrome....."There is no more money left". Not only that, but the UK is also mortgaged up to the hilt......Not sure how many more times some of y'all need to be told before it will sink in.

The only way to get over this, is to roll your sleeves up and go out and 'create' some wealth...Because like it or not......It's time to pay the piper.

 

Spot on post, but what makes the situation worse is who is buying the bulk of the government gilts. Can anyone guess who this might be?

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Erm. You do know that the US is the biggest debtor in the history of the world? The US is facing an even more uncertain future than the UK and the EU.

 

What do the Americans do at times like this? Obviously I know their policies and way of life are different from over here. How do they deal with it.

[buctootim]

What do the Americans do at times like this? Obviously I know their policies and way of life are different from over here. How do they deal with it.

 

Traditionally the US consumer has always primarily bought US made goods; US banks had very little competition in investment banking; and they made a lot of money from the fact that the US $ was the worlds reserve currency. All of those things are starting to change. 20 years ago more than half the largest companies in the world were American, now its around 20% and falling. Drive through large parts of New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Ohio and its just a parade of rusting closed factories.

 

Regards policies, they havent really reacted yet, they've just carried on wirth a massive trade deficit, and the world has let them do it. Sometime soon they are going to realise they have a huge problem.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Traditionally the US consumer has always primarily bought US made goods; US banks had very little competition in investment banking; and they made a lot of money from the fact that the US $ was the worlds reserve currency. All of those things are starting to change. 20 years ago more than half the largest companies in the world were American, now its around 20% and falling. Drive through large parts of New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Ohio and its just a parade of rusting closed factories.

 

Regards policies, they havent really reacted yet, they've just carried on wirth a massive trade deficit, and the world has let them do it. Sometime soon they are going to realise they have a massive problem.

 

I am very aware of the situation in Detroit and realised that auto manufacturing was suffering more severely in the U.S. than other countries. What I didn't realise was that their hold on large companies is that low nowadays.

[dune]

I started this thread a while back and no-body seems to care about the fact that most of the world are effectively subjects of the Chinese Empire. Beijing and the Commies are the ones who keep lending the money to us (the west) and I tell you what unless we sort ourselves out and not only clear the deficit, but the debt aswell, we will one day be slaves.

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?21773-China

[buctootim]

I am very aware of the situation in Detroit and realised that auto manufacturing was suffering more severely in the U.S. than other countries. What I didn't realise was that their hold on large companies is that low nowadays.

.

 

Yep its not just Detroit. Companies like IBM, AIG, General Electric, Kodak, Goodyear, Lockheed are also a fraction of their former size, or are foreign owned. ,

[rocknrollman no2]

I started this thread a while back and no-body seems to care about the fact that most of the world are effectively subjects of the Chinese Empire. Beijing and the Commies are the ones who keep lending the money to us (the west) and I tell you what unless we sort ourselves out and not only clear the deficit, but the debt aswell, we will one day be slaves.

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?21773-China

 

I thought we borrowed money from the IMF (International monetary fund)?Nothing to do with China or other Communist countries.

I agree with you Dune about having to sort ourselves out,but i still think its very unfair that because a few American and uk bankers messed up the economy

(then took big payoffs),us ordinary hard working people have to pay the price.

[dune]

I thought we borrowed money from the IMF (International monetary fund)?Nothing to do with China or other Communist countries.

I agree with you Dune about having to sort ourselves out,but i still think its very unfair that because a few American and uk bankers messed up the economy

(then took big payoffs),us ordinary hard working people have to pay the price.

 

The governemt raise money through issueing bonds (we call them gilts) and these are essentially IOU's that govt pays back with interest. Insurance firms and pension funds buy the largest chunk, but China is reportedly the largest overseas buyer. We don't publish who the overseas buyers are, but the US govt do and in their case it's China so i'd believe the reports.

[Johnny Bognor]

I cant see mass manufacturing ever returning to the UK. We simply cant compete with China and other developing nations on costs. The UK has retreated into high tech / skills, capital intensive industries for overseas earnings - investment banking, insurance, areonautics, pharmaceuticals and IT and a few niches like Formula 1. Give it 20 years and Chinese univesities will provide the skills necessary to take those from us too. I can see only two options - either we are royally ****ed, or global free trade will break down and the world will retreat into trading blocks, imposing high tariffs on imported goods.

 

Innovation is the only way out. We need the entrepreneurs and the inventors to innovate.....this way we keep the goalposts moving, own the IP and import profits. The problem is that most youngsters want to be a celebrity and those going to university want to do media studies....until there is a cultural shift we will continue to sink. One hope is that Dragon's Den has helped incubate an entrepreneurial spirit and inspires people to get off their arses and try and do something.... this changing of the nation's phsyche is desperately needed......We used to be a nation of inventors and were the foremost economic power after the industrial revolution and it took decades for others to catch up. Innovate or we're finished.

 

(as it happens, the 'successful' industries you mentioned in your post are innovative and that is no coincidence)

Edited 8 July, 2010 by Johnny Bognor

[Saint George]

Erm. You do know that the US is the biggest debtor in the history of the world? The US is facing an even more uncertain future than the UK and the EU.

 

Yup, but our socialst is only going to be around for another 2 years and will be a lame duck after November...No way, even with the Obamabots, are we in a worse position than the UK or the EU. Bigger debt, yes.......But in a far better position to turn things around...The Union strongholds like Detroit etc, maybe rust heaps and the leftist capital, ie California maybe bankrupt (suprise suprise) but the rest of the Country is far more flexible and will be more than ready for the challange come November.

[Gemmel]

The Poll Tax riots helped get rid of Thatcher.

 

The Tories stayed in power and the poll tax still exists (Council Tax) = Make that EPIC Failure

[rocknrollman no2]

The Tories stayed in power and the poll tax still exists (Council Tax) = Make that EPIC Failure

Council tax is paid per property,ie how many bedrooms etc.

The poll tax was paid per person,no matter where you lived.So they are different things.

[Gemmel]

Council tax is paid per property,ie how many bedrooms etc.

The poll tax was paid per person,no matter where you lived.So they are different things.

 

 

Whilst Council tax is based on the property, it is paid by the owners or tenants (Whoever lives there) so if you live in a house you pay (Although I get your point) which is different to the old rates.

[wild-saint]

Far be it for me to stick up for dune, but he's not trolling and whilst i would normally feel uncomfortable at the idea of agreeing with him, in this instance he is absolutely correct

I totally agree with what you and Dune are saying. Labours tenure has destroyed the country. the working class need to wak up and smell the coffee. if you rack up debt somebody has to pay it off eventually.

[Saintandy666]

Was it banks supply of 'cash' or our constant demand for instant credit that caused the recession?

[Jonnyboy]

Far be it for me to stick up for dune, but he's not trolling and whilst i would normally feel uncomfortable at the idea of agreeing with him, in this instance he is absolutely correct

 

No he's not! You cant blame Brown/Labour for a global crisis ffs

[Jonnyboy]

Innovation is the only way out. We need the entrepreneurs and the inventors to innovate.....this way we keep the goalposts moving, own the IP and import profits. The problem is that most youngsters want to be a celebrity and those going to university want to do media studies....until there is a cultural shift we will continue to sink. One hope is that Dragon's Den has helped incubate an entrepreneurial spirit and inspires people to get off their arses and try and do something.... this changing of the nation's phsyche is desperately needed......We used to be a nation of inventors and were the foremost economic power after the industrial revolution and it took decades for others to catch up. Innovate or we're finished.

 

(as it happens, the 'successful' industries you mentioned in your post are innovative and that is no coincidence)

 

Most innovators these days are attracted to the big money in the city where they dream up new ways to fleece the working man, the rich get richer

[Jonnyboy]

Well, considering the Socialist's and the Labour Government, with their bloated Benefits system and unchecked public sector jobs (including those for the no hopers) have ****ed every last drop of wealth in the UK up the wall...What other names would fit the bill?

 

It's no good crying about it now..... And to blame it all on the bankers is a joke and soooo typically socialist......Must have someone else to blame. Personal responsibility just doesn't exist within a socialistic benefits culture. Where peeps just expect the Government to do everything from stopping y'all from "poking your eye out with that" to filling your palm with silver every time you hold your hand out for more.

 

Most of the world is in a bad shape right now..."rioting" and "taking action" is not the answer...You need to get past the 'child holding his hand out for pocket money' syndrome....."There is no more money left". Not only that, but the UK is also mortgaged up to the hilt......Not sure how many more times some of y'all need to be told before it will sink in.

The only way to get over this, is to roll your sleeves up and go out and 'create' some wealth...Because like it or not......It's time to pay the piper.

 

you really are a condescending p rick

[Jonnyboy]

Having just had a County Court summons because my Council Tax payment is a few days late, and then having to deal with jobs worths reading from scripts and then informing me that I have had a £60 fine imposed because of late payment and to add insult to injury, I still have to go to court even though I am up to date with my payments, it has made me realise what a bloody mess this country is in.

My particular council based in Kent is one that lost money in the Icelandic bank crisis, and now they are using heavy handed tactics to try and recoup their losses from the likes of you and I. How the Council can justify £1400 per year in my area is beyond belief.

Add to the fact that the recession was largely down to large banking establishments and their banking practices and yet it is now the banks that are calling in debts and forcing many businesses and individuals into bankruptcy.

Fuel costs, food, unemployment figures going up, job losses, I could go on, but the everyday person is the one having to brunt the costs of these so called establishments mistakes. What with the present government saying the next 10 years are going to hurt it begs the question, where is this going to end?

I am not saying that the state of our country is the main reason, but why are we starting to see individuals loosing it such as the Cumbrian killings and this Raoul Moat at present, is there a link?

My main reason for bringing up this topic is, why does it seem that the people of this country have lost their fight. Remember the Poll Tax riots, the fuel protests, the miners, the printers etc etc, it seems that it is only the BA cabin crew that have any get up and go in them. The everyday person is being royally rogered but has no desire to bite back which I find amazing considering the past.

 

Btw if its any consolation I am shortly going to do a Raoul, cut down all the speed cameras in Hampshire and then live rough on the Common leaving letters threatening traffic police

[Johnny Bognor]

No he's not! You cant blame Brown/Labour for a global crisis ffs

 

The blame game......

 

You're right. Blaming Gordon/Labour for a global crisis is like blaming them for bad weather. However, when it rains and your roof is leaking, do you blame the weather or do you blame those responsible for maintaining your roof?

 

The global recession was unavoidable, but our ability to deal with it was hampered by their negligence. Instead of borrowing their way out of it, they could have used the reserves they should have built up and the pain that we will now feel would have been less severe. But what do you expect? Gordon thought he had abolished boom and bust and this arrogance and his self belief contributed to the mess we're in. Therefore, I blame the bankers (as they triggered it) and Gordon/Labour in equal measures (as they hampered our ability to deal with it).

 

The bankers clearly are culpable for a significant part, but as for Gordon/Labour, we had a structural defecit BEFORE the credit crunch and BEFORE the recession, so how is this the bankers fault?

 

"We " also have to take the blame, running up credit cards and taking out 125% mortgages.......meanwhile the then chancellor turned a blind eye (no pun intended) because all was good and the feel good factor would never end........except that it did.

 

So you can blame the bankers all you want, but at the end of the day, there are others responsible for their part (of which Gordon/Labour have to share that blame)

 

 

Most innovators these days are attracted to the big money in the city where they dream up new ways to fleece the working man, the rich get richer

 

So if we don't innovate (which is the only way to generate wealth), then how do you propose we do it?

Edited 8 July, 2010 by Johnny Bognor

[benjii]

Council tax is paid per property,ie how many bedrooms etc.

The poll tax was paid per person,no matter where you lived.So they are different things.

 

Poll tax = fair. Council tax = mental.

[Jonnyboy]

The blame game......

 

You're right. Blaming Gordon/Labour for a global crisis is like blaming them for bad weather. However, when it rains and your roof is leaking, do you blame the weather or do you blame those responsible for maintaining your roof?

 

The global recession was unavoidable, but our ability to deal with it was hampered by their negligence. Instead of borrowing their way out of it, they could have used the reserves they should have built up and the pain that we will now feel would have been less severe. But what do you expect? Gordon thought he had abolished boom and bust and this arrogance and his self belief contributed to the mess we're in. Therefore, I blame the bankers (as they triggered it) and Gordon/Labour in equal measures (as they hampered our ability to deal with it).

 

The bankers clearly are culpable for a significant part, but as for Gordon/Labour, we had a structural defecit BEFORE the credit crunch and BEFORE the recession, so how is this the bankers fault?

 

"We " also have to take the blame, running up credit cards and taking out 125% mortgages.......meanwhile the then chancellor turned a blind eye (no pun intended) because all was good and the feel good factor would never end........except that it did.

 

So you can blame the bankers all you want, but at the end of the day, there are others responsible for their part (of which Gordon/Labour have to share that blame)

 

 

 

 

So if we don't innovate (which is the only way to generate wealth), then how do you propose we do it?

 

Im not saying we shouldnt innovate only that some of the best minds seem to be working in areas that arent really helping the UK

 

Yes we can blame bankers, Labour AND the Tories, but the level of blame aimed at subprime mortgage borrowers shouldnt be too high i believe. If you are poor and quite possibly ignorant and a slick salesman knocks on your door and offers you all your dreams you cant be surprised when they take it up.

Perhaps mortgages without a deposit should be banned?

[Jonnyboy]

Poll tax = fair. Council tax = mental.

 

could there be a combination of both perhaps?

[rocknrollman no2]

Poll tax = fair. Council tax = mental.

 

Sorry but the poll tax was never fair.Thats why there were protests.

The polltax didnt take into account your ability to pay.How could it be fair that a millionaire in a big mansion pays the same as a single person on a council estate?

[Johnny Bognor]

Im not saying we shouldnt innovate only that some of the best minds seem to be working in areas that arent really helping the UK

 

Yes we can blame bankers, Labour AND the Tories, but the level of blame aimed at subprime mortgage borrowers shouldnt be too high i believe. If you are poor and quite possibly ignorant and a slick salesman knocks on your door and offers you all your dreams you cant be surprised when they take it up.

Perhaps mortgages without a deposit should be banned?

 

Not sure how you can pin it on the Tories as they weren't in power since 1997, which is akin to blaming all wrong on Adam and Eve.

 

As for the less well off being taken in by the Financial Services industry (and may be they were with all this cheap money available), exactly what did our former chancellor do about it? Nothing, he turned a blind eye and let it happen. Anyone with half a brain cell could see that it was not sustainable and yet he (the one person who could stop it) did nothing.

 

As for the bankers, recessions and booms are cyclical and have happened since the beginning of time. Yes the credit crunch triggered this particular recession, but had the credit crunch not happened, another recession would have either occured anyway (either by now or in within the next couple of years). A basic GCSE economics student would understand this, but the man running our finances thought he had abolished boom and bust.

 

If you want to blame it on the tories, that is your perrogative, but the bulk of the blame has to lie with the banker, Gordon (in particular, as the single most influencial person in this) and Labour. You could also blame the property investors / speculators for driving up house prices.

[Johnny Bognor]

Sorry but the poll tax was never fair.Thats why there were protests.

The polltax didnt take into account your ability to pay.How could it be fair that a millionaire in a big mansion pays the same as a single person on a council estate?

 

R&RM2, I take your point, but there are loads of Poll Taxes, such as car tax for instance.

[dune]

Poll tax = fair. Council tax = mental.

 

I was in favour of the community charge because there's houses in Leicester full of adults and this charge made them all cough up.

[Saint Billy]

Saint Billyboy You live in the garden of England,,,,,,,shut up! Payup! or they throw you out!,,,,simples

 

 

A Mods i got no feckin smiley winky things,

 

Read the post inbreed, I have paid be it 2 days late

[tartanowl]

I wasn't aware of the figure, but that is a huge %age and it illustrates why the banking sector cannot be scared off. If and when we re-build a manufacturing base they maybe we can be more firm, but atm they have the whip hand over us and away from the fantasy Island of of those calling for huge taxes and penalties for bankers we simply can't afford to rock the boat.

 

Remind us all who was responsible for the sale and destruction of manufacturing and industry in this country...

[Gemmel]

Read the post inbreed, I have paid be it 2 days late

 

 

Lol dont be silly - you do not get taken to court for being two days late. Three consecutive missed payments as a bare minimum or failing to stick to agreed terms of payment plan of money owing.

 

Don't even bother coming back to assure us you really were only two days late (They wouldnt have been able to serve notice otherwise)

[solentstars]

Abandonment of the Poll Tax

 

John Major announced in his first parliamentary speech as Prime Minister that the Community Charge was to be replaced by Council Tax, which, unlike Poll Tax, took account of ability to pay. While less harsh on lower-income earners than Poll Tax, the new tax took no account of the income earned by the taxpayer, but did take into account the value of the property on which the householder was taxed, being in effect the old rates system restore