UK in a mess!

[Saint Billy]

Having just had a County Court summons because my Council Tax payment is a few days late, and then having to deal with jobs worths reading from scripts and then informing me that I have had a £60 fine imposed because of late payment and to add insult to injury, I still have to go to court even though I am up to date with my payments, it has made me realise what a bloody mess this country is in.

My particular council based in Kent is one that lost money in the Icelandic bank crisis, and now they are using heavy handed tactics to try and recoup their losses from the likes of you and I. How the Council can justify £1400 per year in my area is beyond belief.

Add to the fact that the recession was largely down to large banking establishments and their banking practices and yet it is now the banks that are calling in debts and forcing many businesses and individuals into bankruptcy.

Fuel costs, food, unemployment figures going up, job losses, I could go on, but the everyday person is the one having to brunt the costs of these so called establishments mistakes. What with the present government saying the next 10 years are going to hurt it begs the question, where is this going to end?

I am not saying that the state of our country is the main reason, but why are we starting to see individuals loosing it such as the Cumbrian killings and this Raoul Moat at present, is there a link?

My main reason for bringing up this topic is, why does it seem that the people of this country have lost their fight. Remember the Poll Tax riots, the fuel protests, the miners, the printers etc etc, it seems that it is only the BA cabin crew that have any get up and go in them. The everyday person is being royally rogered but has no desire to bite back which I find amazing considering the past.

[hypochondriac]

I think everyone realises that cutbacks are unfortunate but necessary

[iansums]

Having just had a County Court summons because my Council Tax payment is a few days late, and then having to deal with jobs worths reading from scripts and then informing me that I have had a £60 fine imposed because of late payment and to add insult to injury, I still have to go to court even though I am up to date with my payments, it has made me realise what a bloody mess this country is in.

My particular council based in Kent is one that lost money in the Icelandic bank crisis, and now they are using heavy handed tactics to try and recoup their losses from the likes of you and I. How the Council can justify £1400 per year in my area is beyond belief.

Add to the fact that the recession was largely down to large banking establishments and their banking practices and yet it is now the banks that are calling in debts and forcing many businesses and individuals into bankruptcy.

Fuel costs, food, unemployment figures going up, job losses, I could go on, but the everyday person is the one having to brunt the costs of these so called establishments mistakes. What with the present government saying the next 10 years are going to hurt it begs the question, where is this going to end?

I am not saying that the state of our country is the main reason, but why are we starting to see individuals loosing it such as the Cumbrian killings and this Raoul Moat at present, is there a link?

My main reason for bringing up this topic is, why does it seem that the people of this country have lost their fight. Remember the Poll Tax riots, the fuel protests, the miners, the printers etc etc, it seems that it is only the BA cabin crew that have any get up and go in them. The everyday person is being royally rogered but has no desire to bite back which I find amazing considering the past.

 

Yeah, let's start rioting, that'll help!!

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Urgh, this thread has a 'dune will will reply with something to do with Labour's mess blah blah blah blah blah' smell about it. I think you will be suprised though, the more this government punishes the ordinary person rather than punishing the bankers over the next few years more groups will take industrial action/to the streets in protest. We didn't cause this crisis, we shouldn't thave to pay for it.

[Saint Billy]

Hypo, I understand cutbacks to a certain extent, by why are you and I being penalised for councils wrongly investing their funds, or for bankers paying out vast amounts of bonuses to their directors etc.

 

I lost my job recently because the bank decided it was too risky to continue offering facilities to the company I worked for, the company was operating within the limits imposed by the bank but the bank became twitchy because the turnover was down due to the economic situation, the bank being RBS of all people.

[Saint Billy]

Yeah, let's start rioting, that'll help!!

 

 

Personally, I am not suggesting rioting, protests yes, but not rioting. My point is though that I am surprised that there is not rioting!

[hamster]

Yeah, let's start rioting, that'll help!!

 

Personally, I am not suggesting rioting, protests yes, but not rioting. My point is though that I am surprised that there is not rioting!

 

It's worked in the past but of course rioting is wrong under normal circumstances.

 

Ref the taxi driver and Raoul Moot, they were exceptions; cabbie was evading taxes anyway and Moat was inside for a while (ie. exempt from council tax).

 

We're still miffed by the MP's expenxex scandals and, again, there are clear differences in that; the one's with second homes would have been exempt from CT on at least one of properties. They are soooo out of touch with you and me and I guess that is the way it has always been and always will unfortunately.

 

I know a chap who leafletted for the LD's and a few weeks ago he was a guest at a thank you party, a few days later....they announce the about turn and cap his salary and threaten to prolong his working life by changing the t & c's of his employment contract! I'm saving the irony of that one for the next time he upsets me at work. His heart was in the right place though I spose.

 

 

I'm not sure either that leaving the UK is the answer, the pro's of living here far outweigh the cons imho.

Edited 8 July, 2010 by hamster

[Trader]

Having just had a County Court summons because my Council Tax payment is a few days late, and then having to deal with jobs worths reading from scripts and then informing me that I have had a £60 fine imposed because of late payment and to add insult to injury, I still have to go to court even though I am up to date with my payments, it has made me realise what a bloody mess this country is in.

My particular council based in Kent is one that lost money in the Icelandic bank crisis, and now they are using heavy handed tactics to try and recoup their losses from the likes of you and I. How the Council can justify £1400 per year in my area is beyond belief.

Add to the fact that the recession was largely down to large banking establishments and their banking practices and yet it is now the banks that are calling in debts and forcing many businesses and individuals into bankruptcy.

Fuel costs, food, unemployment figures going up, job losses, I could go on, but the everyday person is the one having to brunt the costs of these so called establishments mistakes. What with the present government saying the next 10 years are going to hurt it begs the question, where is this going to end?

I am not saying that the state of our country is the main reason, but why are we starting to see individuals loosing it such as the Cumbrian killings and this Raoul Moat at present, is there a link?

My main reason for bringing up this topic is, why does it seem that the people of this country have lost their fight. Remember the Poll Tax riots, the fuel protests, the miners, the printers etc etc, it seems that it is only the BA cabin crew that have any get up and go in them. The everyday person is being royally rogered but has no desire to bite back which I find amazing considering the past.

 

Suicide is always an option.

 

HTH

[mack rill]

Saint Billyboy You live in the garden of England,,,,,,,shut up! Payup! or they throw you out!,,,,simples

 

 

A Mods i got no feckin smiley winky things,

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Saint Billyboy You live in the garden of England,,,,,,,shut up! Payup! or they throw you out!,,,,simples

 

 

A Mods i got no feckin smiley winky things,

 

Probably because you are feckless?

[Redondo Saint]

Every country is in a mess!!

 

If you don't like to contribute to your local society by paying taxes, suggest you sell up, buy a caravan and learn to sharpen knives or tarmac drives - then you can live for free.

 

.. and as for thinking BA cabin crew have backbone because they are striking ....???

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Urgh, this thread has a 'dune will will reply with something to do with Labour's mess blah blah blah blah blah' smell about it. I think you will be suprised though, the more this government punishes the ordinary person rather than punishing the bankers over the next few years more groups will take industrial action/to the streets in protest. We didn't cause this crisis, we shouldn't thave to pay for it.

 

+1.

 

Time will tell but there will possibly be a time when the working man has had enough and may collectively decide to take action across the nation.

 

The clock is ticking.

[Gemmel]

Having just had a County Court summons because my Council Tax payment is a few days late, and then having to deal with jobs worths reading from scripts and then informing me that I have had a £60 fine imposed because of late payment and to add insult to injury, I still have to go to court even though I am up to date with my payments, it has made me realise what a bloody mess this country is in.

My particular council based in Kent is one that lost money in the Icelandic bank crisis, and now they are using heavy handed tactics to try and recoup their losses from the likes of you and I. How the Council can justify £1400 per year in my area is beyond belief.

Add to the fact that the recession was largely down to large banking establishments and their banking practices and yet it is now the banks that are calling in debts and forcing many businesses and individuals into bankruptcy.

Fuel costs, food, unemployment figures going up, job losses, I could go on, but the everyday person is the one having to brunt the costs of these so called establishments mistakes. What with the present government saying the next 10 years are going to hurt it begs the question, where is this going to end?

I am not saying that the state of our country is the main reason, but why are we starting to see individuals loosing it such as the Cumbrian killings and this Raoul Moat at present, is there a link?

My main reason for bringing up this topic is, why does it seem that the people of this country have lost their fight. Remember the Poll Tax riots, the fuel protests, the miners, the printers etc etc, it seems that it is only the BA cabin crew that have any get up and go in them. The everyday person is being royally rogered but has no desire to bite back which I find amazing considering the past.

 

A little bit like pompey fans now crying over things that happened in the past. The time for protesting was when this Country was being run into the ground, just like their club, but most were to blind to see it.

Everything was rosy, no penny pinching and it was spend spend spend and everybody turned a blind eye, although knew it was not sustainable.

 

This Country is in a mess and I have no doubt what so ever that it will manifest into social unrest, but again - just like pompey we will have missed the boat as to whose fault it is was and throwing sticks and stones at the wrong people

[Master Bates]

Job Centres are making people redundant, now they can see what it's like being on the other side being treated like a criminal/s**t.

[thesaint sfc]

Personally I think this is just the start of things and we have a far, far worst recession than anyone could possibly think of in the mist.

[Chin Strain]

Having just had a County Court summons because my Council Tax payment is a few days late, and then having to deal with jobs worths reading from scripts and then informing me that I have had a £60 fine imposed because of late payment and to add insult to injury, I still have to go to court even though I am up to date with my payments, it has made me realise what a bloody mess this country is in.

My particular council based in Kent is one that lost money in the Icelandic bank crisis, and now they are using heavy handed tactics to try and recoup their losses from the likes of you and I. How the Council can justify £1400 per year in my area is beyond belief.

Add to the fact that the recession was largely down to large banking establishments and their banking practices and yet it is now the banks that are calling in debts and forcing many businesses and individuals into bankruptcy.

Fuel costs, food, unemployment figures going up, job losses, I could go on, but the everyday person is the one having to brunt the costs of these so called establishments mistakes. What with the present government saying the next 10 years are going to hurt it begs the question, where is this going to end?

I am not saying that the state of our country is the main reason, but why are we starting to see individuals loosing it such as the Cumbrian killings and this Raoul Moat at present, is there a link?

My main reason for bringing up this topic is, why does it seem that the people of this country have lost their fight. Remember the Poll Tax riots, the fuel protests, the miners, the printers etc etc, it seems that it is only the BA cabin crew that have any get up and go in them. The everyday person is being royally rogered but has no desire to bite back which I find amazing considering the past.

 

And people being too damn greedy for their own good. People not wanting to take personal responsibility for their actions seems to be another reason this country is going downhill. Everyone's always looking for someone else to blame. 'It was them, they leant me the money'.....you know what, people got greedy, they wanted their 'investment' flat. They were prepared to spend £300k on a 2 bed flat in Southampton. They were happy to take '2 years guaranteed rent at £1500 per month' from the builders. Surprise, surprise, when they came to month 25, they suddenly found out it was only worth £750 per month and the market was flooded with other flats.

 

Bottom line is that these people were also part of the reason for the recession. A large part.

 

Oh, one other thing....'some' large banking organisations. Not all.

 

P.S. Why didn't you just pay your council tax on time? Would have avoided the whole situation. Personal responsibility?

[iansums]

+1.

 

Time will tell but there will possibly be a time when the working man has had enough and may collectively decide to take action across the nation.

 

The clock is ticking.

 

And last year many in the private sector did take action. They voluntarirly took pay cuts / reduced hours to save their jobs. Now the public sector are thretened with a pay freeze everyone is talking about strikes. Perhaps the unions should be offering to take pay cuts to protect jobs.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

And last year many in the private sector did take action. They voluntarirly took pay cuts / reduced hours to save their jobs. Now the public sector are thretened with a pay freeze everyone is talking about strikes. Perhaps the unions should be offering to take pay cuts to protect jobs.

 

The workers in the private sector should unionise and take action, they don't have to take this **** anymore than public sector workers. We dont HAVE to accept anything our bosses pass down to us that we consider unreasonable, it's a democratic right.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

And last year many in the private sector did take action. They voluntarirly took pay cuts / reduced hours to save their jobs. Now the public sector are thretened with a pay freeze everyone is talking about strikes. Perhaps the unions should be offering to take pay cuts to protect jobs.

 

Back in 1985 I worked for a fantastic employer. Business changed and there were redundancies being discussed. Us sparks all sat down and realised we could save a job by either taking a pay cut or by chopping our hours to fight off the one redundancy.

 

The management thanked us and said no.

 

By the time I left, rather than get pushed, we had gone from 14 sparks down to just 6 including myself.

 

For me, however altruistic our effort, it never worked.

 

Management will, quite rightly, use times like this to cull their deadwood.

 

But the comment was not really about job losses, more about how much can the working man take before they decide to fight the cuts and costs.

[dune]

If the Socialists hadn't riddled the country with a mountain of debt because Prudence Brown had ended boom and bust we'd have been in a position to ride the recession out much better. Yes the bankers should have been regulated, but the Labour scum are more to blame.

[dune]

The workers in the private sector should unionise and take action, they don't have to take this **** anymore than public sector workers. We dont HAVE to accept anything our bosses pass down to us that we consider unreasonable, it's a democratic right.

 

Get in the real world.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

If the Socialists hadn't riddled the country with a mountain of debt because Prudence Brown had ended boom and bust we'd have been in a position to ride the recession out much better. Yes the bankers should have been regulated, but the Labour scum are more to blame.

 

DO NOT deliberately start arguments. This is known as "trolling". It is usually very easy to spot, and offending threads will be locked or deleted

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Get in the real world.

 

As expected from a troll; I predicted in an earlier post you would reply in such a manner and I am pleased to see I have been proven right. Yawn.

[dune]

DO NOT deliberately start arguments. This is known as "trolling". It is usually very easy to spot, and offending threads will be locked or deleted

 

How is it trolling to point out the obvious. The former chief secretary to the treasury left a note on his desk "There is no money left", yet Ed Balls and Co were merrily signing off new school builds etc like a retreating army burns the corn so the people starve. Labour disgust me for what they have done.

[Gemmel]

DO NOT deliberately start arguments. This is known as "trolling". It is usually very easy to spot, and offending threads will be locked or deleted

 

Far be it for me to stick up for dune, but he's not trolling and whilst i would normally feel uncomfortable at the idea of agreeing with him, in this instance he is absolutely correct

[EastleighSoulBoy]

If the Socialists hadn't riddled the country with a mountain of debt because Prudence Brown had ended boom and bust we'd have been in a position to ride the recession out much better. Yes the bankers should have been regulated, but the Labour scum are more to blame.

 

Just so you know, Stanley, every time you start trolling and I see it I report your posts as trolling.

[dune]

As expected from a troll; I predicted in an earlier post you would reply in such a manner and I am pleased to see I have been proven right. Yawn.

 

I'll tell you why private sector workers didn't strike, because striking would have achieved nothing positive. It's the same for the public sector, but you lot will strike and wave your tatty banners, but THERE IS NO MONEY LEFT - do you understand this?

[trousers]

Urgh, this thread has a 'dune will will reply with something to do with Labour's mess blah blah blah blah blah' smell about it. I think you will be suprised though, the more this government punishes the ordinary person rather than punishing the bankers over the next few years more groups will take industrial action/to the streets in protest. We didn't cause this crisis, we shouldn't thave to pay for it.

 

'We' (the ordinary man in the street) didn't directly cause the crisis but as a society we all indirectly benefitted from the artificial banking boom in some shape or form. For example, my modest pension fund.

 

Whilst 'banker bashing' is a natural and understandable human instinct in the circumstances we now face, the unpalatable truth is that 'we' (the ordinary man in the street) need the banking/financial system to recover as quickly as possible to get us out of the very mess that the unregulated system got us into in the first place.

 

If all the remaining bankers are forced out to other territories through swingeing punishments then where does that leave, for example, my modest pension fund?

 

I suppose I could join the clamour for retribution and wave goodbye to my retirement so that I can be a burdon on the state in later life...

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

I'll tell you why private sector workers didn't strike, because striking would have achieved nothing positive. It's the same for the public sector, but you lot will strike and wave your tatty banners, but THERE IS NO MONEY LEFT - do you understand this?

 

I understand perfectly, but dune, it was your chums in the city that caused this mess. Workers in both sectors shouldn't have to suffer as a result, it is simply not fair. The banking sector should be MADE TO PAY for THERE mess, end of.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

'We' (the ordinary man in the street) didn't directly cause the crisis but as a society we all indirectly benefitted from the artificial banking boom in some shape or form. For example, my modest pension fund.

 

Whilst 'banker bashing' is a natural and understandable human instinct in the circumstances we now face, the unpalatable truth is that 'we' (the ordinary man in the street) need the banking/financial system to recover as quickly as possible to get us out of the very mess that the unregulated system got us into in the first place.

 

If all the remaining bankers are forced out to other territories through swingeing punishments then where does that leave, for example, my modest pension fund?

 

I suppose I could join the clamour for retribution and wave goodbye to my retirement so that I can be a burdon on the state in later life...

 

A Robin Hood tax would not see banks leave the city. They've had it so good for so long they can easily afford it.

[trousers]

I understand perfectly, but dune, it was your chums in the city that caused this mess. Workers in both sectors shouldn't have to suffer as a result, it is simply not fair. The banking sector should be MADE TO PAY for THERE mess, end of.

 

Did you ever benefit directly or indirectly from the financial sector boom?

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Did you ever benefit directly or indirectly from the financial sector boom?

 

That is beside the point. They were the ones who were irresponsible; speculating with money they didn't have. Now they want clemency? Disgraceful.

[dune]

I understand perfectly, but dune, it was your chums in the city that caused this mess. Workers in both sectors shouldn't have to suffer as a result, it is simply not fair. The banking sector should be MADE TO PAY for THERE mess, end of.

 

What you fail to appreciate is that banking is all we've got in this country as an industry. We cannot afford to go for their throats because they'll just up sticks and move to Shanghai. I agree with a lot of your sentiments, but frankly you've not thought anything through.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

What you fail to appreciate is that banking is all we've got in this country as an industry. We cannot afford to go for their throats because they'll just up sticks and move to Shanghai. I agree with a lot of your sentiments, but frankly you've not thought anything through.

 

It's nothing government investment would have changed, and we all know where this started but I won't go through all that Thatcher stuff again. Anyway, my gruel is ready...

[Gemmel]

I understand perfectly, but dune, it was your chums in the city that caused this mess. Workers in both sectors shouldn't have to suffer as a result, it is simply not fair. The banking sector should be MADE TO PAY for THERE mess, end of.

 

Forget Fair that's where we are right now. There is no money left in the kitty. Just like when you spend everything you have in the bank and go to the cash point for some more and it politely says no. It is no different for the Country, it has no money left. Infact it is much worse than having no money left, it is minus 100's of billions.

 

No problem that you want to balme the banks and force the banks to pay (And in time they will) but for the next few years, it is everybody that will have to pay.

 

Your idea of unionising and taking action willl go the same way as the initial posters examples;

 

Miners strike; Failure

Poll Tax Riots; Failure

Printers Strike; Failuire

Fuel Protests: Don't recall anything sunstantial, but given the prices now....Failure

BA; Will be a Failure

[AndyNorthernSaints]

Far be it for me to stick up for dune, but he's not trolling and whilst i would normally feel uncomfortable at the idea of agreeing with him, in this instance he is absolutely correct

 

Not trolling? he's a sad pathetic WUM who probably still lives at home. Calling Labour government Socialists and scum each day/week as well as slagging off any one on benefits or working in the public sector. All this from a well known racist.

[dune]

That is beside the point. They were the ones who were irresponsible; speculating with money they didn't have. Now they want clemency? Disgraceful.

 

Yes it is disgraceful, but you've got to look at the bigger picture, are we better off treading carefully and keeping London as the financial capital of the world and creaming off tax revenue year after year, or are we better off getting tough and scaring them off? With you it's all about getting even and revenge, but use your common sense for once and understand we need to keep London as a financial capital because if it ceases to be so we'll be even deeper in the ****.

[dune]

It's nothing government investment would have changed, and we all know where this started but I won't go through all that Thatcher stuff again. Anyway, my gruel is ready...

 

Sorry, I can't make head nor tail of this.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

Forget Fair that's where we are right now. There is no money left in the kitty. Just like when you spend everything you have in the bank and go to the cash point for some more and it politely says no. It is no different for the Country, it has no money left. Infact it is much worse than having no money left, it is minus 100's of billions.

 

No problem that you want to balme the banks and force the banks to pay (And in time they will) but for the next few years, it is everybody that will have to pay.

 

Your idea of unionising and taking action willl go the same way as the initial posters examples;

 

Miners strike; Failure

Poll Tax Riots; Failure

Printers Strike; Failuire

Fuel Protests: Don't recall anything sunstantial, but given the prices now....Failure

BA; Will be a Failure

 

The Poll Tax riots helped get rid of Thatcher.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Yes it is disgraceful, but you've got to look at the bigger picture, are we better off treading carefully and keeping London as the financial capital of the world and creaming off tax revenue year after year, or are we better off getting tough and scaring them off? With you it's all about getting even and revenge, but use your common sense for once and understand we need to keep London as a financial capital because if it ceases to be so we'll be even deeper in the ****.

 

Thatcher was driven against the unions by revenge. That is why, as you said earlier, banking is the only industry left in this country.

 

It takes two to tango and the unions replied to Thatcher in the only way they felt they could. It is not just a case of 'it all being the Union's fault' that businesses upped sticks and went abroad. Thatcher couldn't protect the working man whilst getting all she could out of him. That's why it's easier to pull out from this country than in Europe.

[dune]

TLS, as a history teacher tell us all why the Wall Street Crash happened.

[JustMike]

What you fail to appreciate is that banking is all we've got in this country as an industry. We cannot afford to go for their throats because they'll just up sticks and move to Shanghai. I agree with a lot of your sentiments, but frankly you've not thought anything through.

 

....and we are crap at that too!

[JustMike]

TLS, as a history teacher tell us all why the Wall Street Crash happened.

 

because they were American ;-)

[dune]

Thatcher was driven against the unions by revenge. That is why, as you said earlier, banking is the only industry left in this country.

 

It takes two to tango and the unions replied to Thatcher in the only way they felt they could. It is not just a case of 'it all being the Union's fault' that businesses upped sticks and went abroad. Thatcher couldn't protect the working man whilst getting all she could out of him. That's why it's easier to pull out from this country than in Europe.

 

And what drove Labour to carry out a scorched earth policy by rushing through high capital projects (such as new school builds) in it's dieing days given that the chief secretary to the treasury stated "There is no money left"?

 

Could it be that Labour cared nothing about the crippling debts these measues inflicted on an already crippled nation, but decided it'd help their re-election chances in 5 years by doing as much damage as possible now?

[Ponty]

Just so you know, Stanley, every time you start trolling and I see it I report your posts as trolling.

Not every time he voices an opinion is it trolling, ESB. In this instance he's at least partially correct anyway.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

And what drove Labour to carry out a scorched earth policy by rushing through high capital projects (such as new school builds) in it's dieing days given that the chief secretary to the treasury stated "There is no money left"?

 

Could it be that Labour cared nothing about the crippling debts these measues inflicted on an already crippled nation, but decided it'd help their re-election chances in 5 years by doing as much damage as possible now?

 

I don't know the answer to that and could only think that they were planning new school builds because they thought that they were needed? Possibly the actual labour involved would keep people employed as the country tried to claw it's way out?

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Not every time he voices an opinion is it trolling, ESB. In this instance he's at least partially correct anyway.

 

You've lost me there.

 

Where did I state that I deemed his every utterance as trolling?

[dune]

Not every time he voices an opinion is it trolling, ESB. In this instance he's at least partially correct anyway.

 

99.99%?

[dune]

You've lost me there.

 

Where did I state that I deemed his every utterance as trolling?

 

Can't you do this via PM?

[buctootim]

....and we are crap at that too!

 

30% of GDP in the South East comes from financial services (no I dont work in that sector)