Leon Crouch - Football Echo

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

What we need to remember is that Lowe was driving the club into the ground - it was failing financially prior to LC's involvement...way before. Getting Lowe out was an attempt to rescue the club, no ifs or buts. It was Wilde that caused the utter mess with the Executive he appointed and then turning Judas to allow Lowe back in. Crouch did everything he possibly could, but it was too late by the time he was able to influence matters. And let's all remember also that Lowe's failure to put the club into Admin 1 week earlier would have seen us back in the CCC this season as we wouldn't have had the -10pts.

 

But he didn't/couldn't put us into admin. And why would he? There was no guarantee anyone would have bought us, and the club would have ceased to exist anyway. People are still treating admin like it is a sure bet.

[saintjay77]

Hi phil, cheers for the summary. Fills a few gaps in my knowledge jigsaw from 'the takeover years'

 

Out of curiosity, where do you think the club would be now if Crouch had stayed in the background rather than taking over the helm for those (ill)fated 6 months?

 

In more or less the same situation albeit via a different route or somewhere completely different?

 

I have to agree with Phil too. Crouch wanted to do the right thing and probably did more fan pleasing stuff than the others but I cant help thinking he played his part in us going down hill fast.

 

All 3 need lining up, bent over and have a cactus soved up there arse's IMO.

 

Had Crouch stood back and did not allot then we would have carried on not getting anywhere but carried on within our means. That would probably mean we would not be under a new financially sound owner now which would be the major issue but I dont think we would have gone bust. Just going nowhere fast.

 

Had Crouch Wilde and Lowe worked together I think it was very possible that they could have slowly turned things round but ultimatly we would still not have seen the back of them.

 

Crouch's offer of 2 Mill if the others do the same was about as useful as me offering 2 Mil as long as each of you do the same. I know you cant afford it but I look the business for showing I am a proper fan

 

Overall the best has come out of a pretty crappy situation.

 

Crouch can be thanked tremendously for replacing that Statue though. The original still makes me laugh every time I see a picture. Did Crouch or anyone not see it before it was unveiled???

[saintwarwick]

Crouch was part of the Wilde bunch that took over and decided to throw everything including the kitchen sink at promotion, it didn't work so we got ourselves into the **** we did. It was only right he should then try to bail us out. As for the £2million people are quoting I have never seen this as fact, maybe true I don't know but at the end of the day he helped put us in the **** anyway.

[OldNick]

We have to remember that by LC's money nearly lost us ML.

Fry knew ML was there but kept Pinnacle going and gave them exclusivity with LC's money. We were fortunate that ML stayed on board because he was close to walking, as was reported at the time he didnt like Fry choosing Pinnacle ahead of him.

I also feel LC was naive and fell into Fry's trap of squeezing money out of him for the exclusivity. Those few weeks while Pinnacle messed about cost us pre season lat year and perhaps we'd have made the play-offs had he used his loaf.

After saying all that, i still feel he needs respect as he lost more than anyone in the debacle. i welcome him back but he is still part of the inglorious 2-3years.

[dubai_phil]

Hi phil, cheers for the summary. Fills a few gaps in my knowledge jigsaw from 'the takeover years'

 

Out of curiosity, where do you think the club would be now if Crouch had stayed in the background rather than taking over the helm for those (ill)fated 6 months?

 

In more or less the same situation albeit via a different route or somewhere completely different?

 

What happened on the Friday before the Charlton home Match in the Wilde Bunch Years is one of the key moments.

 

Those with memories will recall there "seemed" to be battles between "The Execs" and "The Shareholders" which were well commented about.

 

The Execs made a statement about the club not being fiscally sound and having to take decisions. The Shareholders and Fans reacted with anger AND the next day, the team put in the first of what became a number of dreadful performances. None of us knows what went on, the Bad guys were the Execs Hone Dulieu etc.

 

In the Wilde & Crouch year(s) we had probably 5 different boards, Execs, non-Execs, MC, LM, each week it seemed a different Chairman.

 

Again, that to me shows a problem in decision making and corporate strategy/planning. Wilde & Crouch recruited "Experts" and then argued with them and found they were stuck sitting outside and looking in.

 

What would have happened IF Crouch had not come back in? Who knows, maybe Wilde would never have answered Lowe's phone call. Maybe Leon would have answered Lowes' calls, maybe Dave Jones would have won Euromillions, maybe I'd have met Charlize Theron......

 

The path to admin was set in stone though, our only way out was the PA Yacht takeover sailing in, and despite the best efforts of some of the greatest minds in the country (Salz, Seymour Pierce etc) and during the BIGGEST boom and Cheap Credit period in history, NOBODY came up with the cash to buy or invest in the club.

 

No blame game, it was a series of events that led us to where we are now

 

We were bloody lucky

[aintforever]

We have to remember that by LC's money nearly lost us ML.

Fry knew ML was there but kept Pinnacle going and gave them exclusivity with LC's money. We were fortunate that ML stayed on board because he was close to walking, as was reported at the time he didnt like Fry choosing Pinnacle ahead of him.

 

I think you can only blame Fry for that, Crouch was told it was cough up 500K or the club would fold.

 

I'm sure if he was told cough up 500K or a billionare will buy the club he wouldn't have chucked half a mill of his hard earned down a bottomless pit.

[dubai_phil]

I think you can only blame Fry for that, Crouch was told it was cough up 500K or the club would fold.

 

I'm sure if he was told cough up 500K or a billionare will buy the club he wouldn't have chucked half a mill of his hard earned down a bottomless pit.

 

But why did Fry have to ask Leon????????????????????

[up and away]

Sorry, not going to join the love-in.

 

Leon bought into the club by buying shares from other shareholders (not from the club). He then made a decision to vote to remove Lowe which led to the overspend during Burleys reign on a promotion or bust strategy.

 

His 6 months in charge were populated with embarrassing Churchillian speeches and "Investment is Coming" as we sailed to our financial meltdown

 

He was not part of Pinnacle, but joined the group by putting up their 500k. I fully accept that act ensured that the club survived, BUT in his own words, he did not pursue any Due Dilligence and that decision to me will always be tainted that in fact it was his attempt to remain a part of the club "and keep his hands on the controls of the train set".

 

For a supposed succesful Businessman, he made one heck of a continuing trail of poor decisions.

 

So yes, his money saved the club, yes his actions led to ML & NC coming in to buy the club, and so for that he has an important place in our history. But backing Pinnacle without at least checking on their source of funds? Come off it, he was in too big a rush to stay a part of the action.

 

To me his poor decision making led to the BOTCHED ATTEMPT to remove Lowe, led to our financial demise and two seasons in league One. I will always believe that he made those bad decisions for Egotistical reasons, NOT business (ie The Club's) reasons.

 

History will no doubt show that the nett result of his time in the limelight has been a good thing, being part of the journey of fate/karma/luck that led to ML.

 

But we got here by Luck, not by design, and we were days from playing in the Conference through his decision making. I'm sorry but I will never accept he did what he did for anything other than Ego.

 

What ever Crouch's intentions, his input was disastrous with the exception it allowed Markus to come through the door. Even then Crouch's misplaced generosity nearly messed that up completely. A total idiot, more driven by ego than what was actualy best for the club. Going from **** up to **** up so frequently it looked more by desire than accident.

[aintforever]

But why did Fry have to ask Leon????????????????????

 

He didn't have to but my guess is even though he knew Pinnacle were a bunch of jokers he had nothing to lose by conning a wealthy Saints fan out of half a mill.

[Clifford Nelson]

Nobody was prepared to pay up the existing shareholders because they wouldn't have had only that to deal with, but also all the debt. That made the whole thing far too expensive, because Saints are never going to create the kind of revenue which repays that kind of investment. Due to Administration ML could by the club with stadium and all for £12M. THAT makes it a good deal. It also makes it clear that it doesn't matter much what Leon did or didn't do, because there was no good way out. I believe that he is a fan, but a fan with much deeper pockets than most, if not all, of us, and those deep pockets make people believe that they also should have a say, and that they can make the RIGHT decisions. With Saints at the time I don't think that at the time there were much good decisions to be made. The slide was unstoppable.

[West End Saint]

He was in my opinion harshly criticised during his tenure. His intention was always to do the best for the club he supported. He put significant funds into the club, but was screwed over by the Wilde child and Lowe so got wrongly grouped into that rabble. He may have gambled but he did what any grass root fan would have done, tried to get us up. No ?

 

Good to see he is back and should be applauded for his role in keeping this club alive. A fan who put significant money where where most of us would if we could?

 

I agree he put his money where his mouth is while those around him ran for the hills true Saint

[SaintRobbie]

LC is a good fan who tried and gambled high to try and get us back to where we should be - the Premiership - after the actions of Lowe. His biggest error was allowing Lowe to return, but I guess he had no choice.

[SuperSAINT]

Why was he mis-guided?

 

Wilde / Pinnacle

[Dark Munster]

Respect for what ? He was part of the Pinnacle debacle which delayed the Liebherr takeover.

That's easy to say with 20-20 hindsight. I bet if Crouch had known, at the time, about ML he wouldn't have backed Pinnacle.

[lordswoodsaints]

I changed my mind about crouch,at first I saw him as a chancer and I am not a fan of rich fans running football clubs because they tend to make irrational decisions based on what their heart is saying rather than sound business decisions,but he did give a virtually dead football club a chance to survive with his £500k payment..........and for this I will forever be grateful,but he did play a big part in the destruction of the club in the first place.

 

We must also remember we were very very lucky to come out of it all virtually unscathed,something that will become more apparent as more and more clubs go bust and disappear.

[Bucks Saint]

He didn't have to but my guess is even though he knew Pinnacle were a bunch of jokers he had nothing to lose by conning a wealthy Saints fan out of half a mill.

 

Any evidence at all of this "conning"? Very common practice for an insolvency practitioner faced with a business which has zero cash to keep going, but should still be saleable, to find any source of funds - be that a quick disposal of an asset, a major customer who can pay today for a discount, or a benevolent director or shareholder who can help out. Its his job and his duty to act for creditors. I have seen nothing to suggest, then or now, the LC did this anything but entirely willingly (to his credit)

[trousers]

He didn't have to but my guess is even though he knew Pinnacle were a bunch of jokers he had nothing to lose by conning a wealthy Saints fan out of half a mill.

 

Remind me.....how much was Begbie Traynor's final bill.....?

[aintforever]

Any evidence at all of this "conning"? Very common practice for an insolvency practitioner faced with a business which has zero cash to keep going, but should still be saleable, to find any source of funds - be that a quick disposal of an asset, a major customer who can pay today for a discount, or a benevolent director or shareholder who can help out. Its his job and his duty to act for creditors. I have seen nothing to suggest, then or now, the LC did this anything but entirely willingly (to his credit)

 

We can only go on what we read in the Press and Crouch said in the Echo that Fry said 500K was needed or the club folds. That was clearly a lie because a billionare was interested.

[Jonnyboy]

as I see it (from afar) Leon Crouch is a fan (with cash) who did what he felt was best for saints including injecting his own cash (other than shares which may rise or fall in value). He found himself in the accidental position of Chairman and didn't do a bad job when you consider the mess we were in, one notable appointment is Nigel Pearson.

 

He was a Saints fan then & I am glad to read he is a Saints fan now.

 

[ottery st mary]

Thank you Sir Leon Crouch.......A Saints Legend.

 

 

Good Riddance To Lowe, Askham, Cowan, Richards and the rest of that motley crew.

 

 

Thank you ML, NC..Pards and team and a bright future...

 

Bring back Woggy and Ethel the tea lady..

 

 

Apart from Duncan Holley, Weston Saint, derry and Alpine...I idolise Sir Leon Crouch...Thank you Sir.

 

 

COYRs and the Sash.

[buctootim]

We can only go on what we read in the Press and Crouch said in the Echo that Fry said 500K was needed or the club folds. That was clearly a lie because a billionare was interested.

 

It must be pretty unplesant being you. Pretty much everything is a lie and everyone who disagrees with you is stupid. Maybe, just maybe, Fry was telling the truth, £500k was needed to keep the club alive whilst ML did his due diligence.

[aintforever]

It must be pretty unplesant being you. Pretty much everything is a lie and everyone who disagrees with you is stupid. Maybe, just maybe, Fry was telling the truth, £500k was needed to keep the club alive whilst ML did his due diligence.

 

Possibly, but I think it's more likely that Fry was pretty certain Pinnacle were a bunch of chancers but had nothing to lose by fleecing someone for 500K. I doubt he told Crouch there was a billionaire waiting in the wings.

 

No need for the insults, you need to chill the **** out or get laid or something.

[corky morris]

Cant believe we are getting into this AGAIN! Some people have very funny memories......the reason Crouch helped to get rid of Lowe is because HE had got us relegated from the PL with his constant interfering, arrogance & lack of financial acumen - then came back & got us relegated again!!! Why did he get rid of Pearson & insist on that stupid Dutch experiment? There were other ways of remaining in the Champ. Crouch's intentions were honourable, Lowe's were utterly selfish!! By the way - how much of Lowe's money did he actually invest in the club to become Chairman?? Not financed at silly levels off the back of a nursing home OR share options. How much did he take out of a bank account & invest? NONE! How much did he recieve on dividends? Why did we buy back our shares? etc etc etc All Lowe - he is the reason we are in Div 1 remember!! If he asked for administration a week before he did we would not have suffered the 10 pts last season & we would be back in the championship............Short memories some of you have.

[John B]

Cant believe we are getting into this AGAIN! Some people have very funny memories......the reason Crouch helped to get rid of Lowe is because HE had got us relegated from the PL with his constant interfering, arrogance & lack of financial acumen - then came back & got us relegated again!!! Why did he get rid of Pearson & insist on that stupid Dutch experiment? There were other ways of remaining in the Champ. Crouch's intentions were honourable, Lowe's were utterly selfish!! By the way - how much of Lowe's money did he actually invest in the club to become Chairman?? Not financed at silly levels off the back of a nursing home OR share options. How much did he take out of a bank account & invest? NONE! How much did he recieve on dividends? Why did we buy back our shares? etc etc etc All Lowe - he is the reason we are in Div 1 remember!! If he asked for administration a week before he did we would not have suffered the 10 pts last season & we would be back in the championship............Short memories some of you have.

 

Have you not heard about repeats very common on TV as well

[corsacar saint]

Corky,as I said on another thread,I do not know why some on this site do just not go and support another club.[i am sure they would be much happier,as they would have absolutely have nothing to moan about ]-Thinking about the statement in brackets though,I am sure the moaners on here,would still find

something to moan about,even if they single handedly won the euro millions.

[Bucks Saint]

Possibly, but I think it's more likely that Fry was pretty certain Pinnacle were a bunch of chancers but had nothing to lose by fleecing someone for 500K. I doubt he told Crouch there was a billionaire waiting in the wings.

 

No need for the insults, you need to chill the **** out or get laid or something.

 

Nothing to lose? Fleecing? Utter tosh. The club was totally SKINT and not in a position to pay staff wages or running costs. In order to keep trading (and so preserve any chance of ANY buyer completing a deal) we needed cash from somewhere. Where is there any evidence that Crouch was fleeced? Even he does not say so.

[saintjay77]

Cant believe we are getting into this AGAIN! Some people have very funny memories......the reason Crouch helped to get rid of Lowe is because HE had got us relegated from the PL with his constant interfering, arrogance & lack of financial acumen - then came back & got us relegated again!!! Why did he get rid of Pearson & insist on that stupid Dutch experiment? There were other ways of remaining in the Champ. Crouch's intentions were honourable, Lowe's were utterly selfish!! By the way - how much of Lowe's money did he actually invest in the club to become Chairman?? Not financed at silly levels off the back of a nursing home OR share options. How much did he take out of a bank account & invest? NONE! How much did he recieve on dividends? Why did we buy back our shares? etc etc etc All Lowe - he is the reason we are in Div 1 remember!! If he asked for administration a week before he did we would not have suffered the 10 pts last season & we would be back in the championship............Short memories some of you have.

 

Write History however you want but at the end of the day it is still History and most of us have moved on. Most have said they are Happy LC is still a fan and most agree that at least he tried to do something. Many dont think what he did was that helpful but many do. The constant falling out between the 3 main people at the top had plenty to do with our downfall. But I doubt any one of them deliberatly fell out to bring us down. Lowe's financial acumen didnt do anything to make us rich but we must have had one of the lower budgets in the prem and we always lived within our means. We went down with money in the bank and that was not spunked on a gamble by Lowe.

 

Its nice that LC is back supporting the club and I hope he enjoys the ride as much as we will.

 

Let the rest be put to bed.