Ted Bates Trophy

[countysaint]

Due to the lack of Saints related topics, I thought it would be an Idea to find out who we may attract in the annual Ted Bates Trophy this year.

Whilst renewing my season ticket on Friday (yes I know renewals should have been done by Wednesday!)

I enquired at the ticket office who we would be be playing this year, only to find out "we aren't having it this year!"

Well that's another kick in the teeth for ex legends of the club! and there was me thinking that this was the 125th anniversary of the club and Ted Bates was probably the biggest part of the 125 years history!

Silly me.

What is it with the club this close season? I know it seems that we do love to moan but come on, this really should have been a big match to celebrate our 125th and remember Ted again.

Thoughts please.

[alpine_saint]

Cortese doesnt give a sh*t about the clubs history, just its future.

 

This attitude has its plusses and minuses.

 

Sad there is no TBT. Maybe they will hold in winter, they've done that before, I think.

[krissyboy31]

I've been thinking about this and I don't think that they will have scrapped the fixture all together (just my opinion). There is two other possibilities to having the game as a pre-season fixture. If IIRC the original was against Bayern Munich and that was played in the German mid-season break. With the World Cup still ongoing, if we were looking to bring in top-class opposition, they possibly aren't available pre-season but may be during the winter break. Alternatively, we may be looking to have the match at the time of the actual 125th anniversary in November.

[Hopkins]

This is definitely Cortese's idea is it? We've ruled out the possibility that Pardew has requested not to play a top team in pre season and get tonked on what basis then...

[benjii]

It would be nice to know the reasoning but, as Hopkins implies, playing a warm-up against Ajax or Lazio or someone similar is quite ridiculous as a footballing exercise when you are a third division team. We could call the Reading friendly the trophy match but, frankly, it's Reading FFS.

 

No problem with the decision but, as with a few things, perhaps a bit more info would be welcome.

[The Kraken]

I think its disappointing not to have a Ted Bates trophy game of some sort.

 

That said, I'm sure the costs associated with attracting a top name club these days have gone through the roof in recent years. That, and has been pointed out, AP may not want to see our third tier club humbled by a top outfit so close to the big kick off.

 

I would like to see a return of the game in some guise, as it recognises a part of our history that we should all feel rightly proud of. But while we're in League 1 and even the Championship I think the days of playing a top European side are gone.

[VectisSaint]

This is definitely Cortese's idea is it? We've ruled out the possibility that Pardew has requested not to play a top team in pre season and get tonked on what basis then...

Thun and Sochaux both play in the top divisions of their respective countries, Switzerland and France, so suggest AP has done no such thing.

[Thedelldays]

Thun and Sochaux both play in the top divisions of their respective countries, Switzerland and France, so suggest AP has done no such thing.

 

hardly on the same level as ajax and lazio

[NickG]

people can save money and put it towards season tickets!

[VectisSaint]

Another thought, perhaps it has something to do with Mary Bates' passing away, perhaps something is being organised following a request in her will or something.

[Spudders]

No problem with the decision but, as with a few things, perhaps a bit more info would be welcome.

 

This comment, for me, pretty much sums up several things that have happened recently. Ultimately not the end of the world, but just a bit of communication from the club would go a long way at the moment, especially when you consider the promises made when the club was taken over about how important the fans are and how important good communication is with us.

[MarkSFC]

As much as we should always remember and honour Ted and Mary Bates (my grandfather knew him and was proud of that fact - says it all for me) I never thought that The Ted Bates Trophy match was entirely fitting. For us the fans it meant something but I think playing games against random teams was preety meaningless. Call me synical but I feel it was just an idea from Lowe to get more income!

 

The statue is a very fitting tribute and maybe that's enough. Before every single game you will see people at the statue taking photos.

Maybe when NC and ML build our new stadium it will be called The Bates Stadium?!!!

[S-Clarke]

Maybe when NC and ML build our new stadium it will be called The Bates Stadium?!!!

 

It will be called the Cortese Arena

[Gorgiesaint]

Maybe when NC and ML build our new stadium it will be called The Bates Stadium?!!!

 

Just so long as we don't have a cheap hotel attached to the ground. (Sorry but someone had to say it!)

[beatlesaint]

Thats a pity. I assumed the as yet to be filled empty Saturday - 24 July - would be the date of the TBT game.

 

So does this mean our only home pre-season game will in fact be the might of Reading then ?

[ericofarabia]

Thats a pity. I assumed the as yet to be filled empty Saturday - 24 July - would be the date of the TBT game.

 

So does this mean our only home pre-season game will in fact be the might of Reading then ?

 

Keeping it blank until the winners of The World Cup are known. FACT.

 

This also ties up with he rumours of some big news coming up fred.

 

Your heard it here first.

[Badger]

I think it is preferable that we manage to arrange a fixture with a team befitting of a match in Ted Bates honour, rather than a match against just anybody such as Reading.

[jawillwill]

I think they should move the Havant and Waterloo match to SMS and make that the Ted Bates Trophy match. We would thrash them and the skates would never ever live it down.

[hutch]

Will we all immediately forget Ted (or Mary) if the Ted Bates Trophy match doesn't take place? I know I won't.

 

Do Liverpool play an annual Bill Shankly Trophy match? Do Munure play an annual Matt Busby Trophy match?

 

We're moving on.

[Dave Benson Phillips]

Will we all immediately forget Ted (or Mary) if the Ted Bates Trophy match doesn't take place? I know I won't.

 

Do Liverpool play an annual Bill Shankly Trophy match? Do Munure play an annual Matt Busby Trophy match?

 

We're moving on.

 

No

 

It's a f*cking disrespect towards the Bates family. Mary was involved in the setting up and idea of the Ted Bates Trophy as a fitting tribute to her husband... she dies only weeks ago and now they get pushed to the side.

 

Dress it up any way you want, in my opinion it's a f*cking disgrace.

 

And anyone who thinks playing against some of Europes best is of no use, win or lose... is completely retarded.

[Saint Fan CaM]

No

 

It's a f*cking disrespect towards the Bates family. Mary was involved in the setting up and idea of the Ted Bates Trophy as a fitting tribute to her husband... she dies only weeks ago and now they get pushed to the side.

 

Dress it up any way you want, in my opinion it's a f*cking disgrace.

 

And anyone who thinks playing against some of Europes best is of no use, win or lose... is completely retarded.

 

 

As usual, a balanced and understated post.

 

There are a number of possible and perfectly rational reasons for not holding the trophy game. The club have many initiatives that are currently underway to transform root and branch how the club operates to prepare for the exciting future ahead. To get the foundations right takes huge resource and planning and I can understand why NC wants focus on the important stuff right now. I also agree that AP might want a different pre-season focus for the squad.

 

However, it would be nice to keep the competition going. I think it might be much more befitting now for the trophy to be contested by the youth squad. Perhaps between our Academy and another Academy (Hoddles?) for example.

[Dave Benson Phillips]

As usual, a balanced and understated post.

 

There are a number of possible and perfectly rational reasons for not holding the trophy game. The club have many initiatives that are currently underway to transform root and branch how the club operates to prepare for the exciting future ahead. To get the foundations right takes huge resource and planning and I can understand why NC wants focus on the important stuff right now. I also agree that AP might want a different pre-season focus for the squad.

 

However, it would be nice to keep the competition going. I think it might be much more befitting now for the trophy to be contested by the youth squad. Perhaps between our Academy and another Academy (Hoddles?) for example.

 

So, a trophy match that is withdrawn weeks after the person who helped set the competition up dies. Acceptable?

 

You are right, until the season starts we should keep an open mind... because the club is so f*cking sh!t at communicating that there might indeed be a game arranged.

 

Mary Bates died only a few weeks ago... it's wrong, in my opinion completely wrong... fair enough if they are going to think of another way to remember Ted Bates for next season, but to pull it only weeks after Mary Bates died? Wrong.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Mary Bates died only a few weeks ago... it's wrong, in my opinion completely wrong... fair enough if they are going to think of another way to remember Ted Bates for next season, but to pull it only weeks after Mary Bates died? Wrong.

 

Do you know whether the family requested that the Trophy match not be played? If not, then why shout off about something you know nothing about other than to attempt to stir up more unrest? You're starting to sound like a skate Stu - no humility or empathy to the club's best intentions. Why is everything wrong in your world?

[Dave Benson Phillips]

Do you know whether the family requested that the Trophy match not be played? If not, then why shout off about something you know nothing about other than to attempt to stir up more unrest? You're starting to sound like a skate Stu - no humility or empathy to the club's best intentions. Why is everything wrong in your world?

 

I really do admire your quest to see now wrong in what is happening at SFC.

 

Seriously though, Mary Bates founded the Ted Bates Trophy, she gave it the go-ahead as a way of remembering her husband. Are you saying that the Bates family would have asked for the memorial to be removed now she has passed... really?

 

And if there was a simple explanation for the lack of a Ted Bates Trophy, then all the club has to do is communicate the reasons to the fans then we won't be sitting on here discussing it, would we?

[miserableoldgit]

I really do admire your quest to see now wrong in what is happening at SFC.

 

Seriously though, Mary Bates founded the Ted Bates Trophy, she gave it the go-ahead as a way of remembering her husband. Are you saying that the Bates family would have asked for the memorial to be removed now she has passed... really?

 

And if there was a simple explanation for the lack of a Ted Bates Trophy, then all the club has to do is communicate the reasons to the fans then we won't be sitting on here discussing it, would we?

 

TBH I would have thought that the statue was a more fitting memorial to Ted than some meaningless friendly. Just wait until NC takes the statue down and puts one of himself up. Romsey would go thermo-nuclear and not just glow red like it is ATM!!

[Dave Benson Phillips]

TBH I would have thought that the statue was a more fitting memorial to Ted than some meaningless friendly. Just wait until NC takes the statue down and puts one of himself up. Romsey would go thermo-nuclear and not just glow red like it is ATM!!

 

It doesn't make it right in my opinion and it's removal would just be yet another example of the way the club is being treated by the new owners, with absolutely no respect for the clubs history unless it generates an income. All of the " will go whatever and pay whatever " customers might put up with it, that's less than 10,000 of you though, the rest won't put up with it.

[miserableoldgit]

It doesn't make it right in my opinion and it's removal would just be yet another example of the way the club is being treated by the new owners, with absolutely no respect for the clubs history unless it generates an income. All of the " will go whatever and pay whatever " customers might put up with it, that's less than 10,000 of you though, the rest won't put up with it.

Let`s be honest - nothing that NC does is right in your opinion. Yes, some unpopular decisions appear to have been made which will in some way effect just about every supporter to some degree, but by far the the biggest "crime" is the lack of communication. Most people can/will accept change (even "negative" change) if the reasons are explained to them and at the moment, for what ever reason, they are not. You are using this lack of explaination and jumping on every bit of "news", rumour and tittle-tattle to beat Cortese up. It has obviously become an obsession with you and you are starting to become a parody of yourself. FFS, even Dune/Stanley has wound his neck in about his "ticket tax". I always think that getting the facts first before forming an opinion is the best way.

[wild-saint]

It doesn't make it right in my opinion and it's removal would just be yet another example of the way the club is being treated by the new owners, with absolutely no respect for the clubs history unless it generates an income. All of the " will go whatever and pay whatever " customers might put up with it, that's less than 10,000 of you though, the rest won't put up with it.

 

FFS do you ever stop bleating on and on and on. People go to football to watch a good game, support thier team and hopefully win. Absolutely nothing else effects the amount of people turning up each week.

 

The Ted Bates trophy is an insignificant pre season warm up nothing more. Ted Bates himself is remembered by the fans themselves not through statues or named tounaments. If you truely beleive that Ted bates and his memory is the cornerstone of the club then you will remember him in your heart no in a frigging statue of game against fc whoever.

[Dave Benson Phillips]

Let`s be honest - nothing that NC does is right in your opinion. Yes, some unpopular decisions appear to have been made which will in some way effect just about every supporter to some degree, but by far the the biggest "crime" is the lack of communication. Most people can/will accept change (even "negative" change) if the reasons are explained to them and at the moment, for what ever reason, they are not. You are using this lack of explaination and jumping on every bit of "news", rumour and tittle-tattle to beat Cortese up. It has obviously become an obsession with you and you are starting to become a parody of yourself. FFS, even Dune/Stanley has wound his neck in about his "ticket tax". I always think that getting the facts first before forming an opinion is the best way.

 

This is the thing miserableoldgit ( can I have your username? )

 

You have it spot on there, the biggest crime is indeed communication, if they have genuine reasons for some of their actions then I will accept them, the problem is they don't communicate with the fans or justify any of their actions, and when they are forced to communicate with the supporters, the reasons they give are just cop-outs and lies.

 

The real test on how the club sees the fans is the Solent fans forum, a tradition for years and years, even the likes of Lowe was man enough to sit at the head table and get un-censored questioning from the fans. I am pretty certain that this will not be the case with Cortese when this happens, and it will be a 1 hour interview with cherry-picked questions for him to answer. He won't take to being put on the spot.

 

If people question every move the club makes and adopt a 'guilty until proven innocent' attitude, then the club will be forced into communicating with the fans and explaining their actions. At the moment, a large percentage of Saints fans are adopting a 'ahh well, there might be a good reason, nevermind' attitude, this will only cause the communication at the club to get worse and worse... and the decisions made to get more and more controversial.

[Dave Benson Phillips]

People go to football to watch a good game, support thier team and hopefully win. Absolutely nothing else effects the amount of people turning up each week.

 

Really?

 

Are you sure? Or are you just speaking for yourself? That's a pretty generic sweeping statement.

 

I could give you a dozen reasons which might affect someones decision on whether to go and watch a football game, as every supporter is different and has different things that attract them.

[Dellman]

FFS do you ever stop bleating on and on and on. People go to football to watch a good game, support thier team and hopefully win. Absolutely nothing else effects the amount of people turning up each week.

 

The Ted Bates trophy is an insignificant pre season warm up nothing more. Ted Bates himself is remembered by the fans themselves not through statues or named tounaments. If you truely beleive that Ted bates and his memory is the cornerstone of the club then you will remember him in your heart no in a frigging statue of game against fc whoever Well said!

[Saint Fan CaM]

I really do admire your quest to see now wrong in what is happening at SFC.

 

Seriously though, Mary Bates founded the Ted Bates Trophy, she gave it the go-ahead as a way of remembering her husband. Are you saying that the Bates family would have asked for the memorial to be removed now she has passed... really?

 

And if there was a simple explanation for the lack of a Ted Bates Trophy, then all the club has to do is communicate the reasons to the fans then we won't be sitting on here discussing it, would we?

 

I know it's hard to be patient when it seems no progress is being made, however some can see the bigger picture and see the club has turned a corner. It's not the same club admittedly in the sense that the ownership and strategy has changed, however what did you expect? More of the same underachievement as seen in the last 10-15 years? Do you really understand how ravished the club was in terms of it's position relative to a Prem team? Markus, NC and AP have had a massive re-building exercise to contend with. It's coming together slow but sure and Rome was not built in a day. Clearly NC's policy is 'quietly, quietly, catch the monkey' and that's fine by me providing we continue to be successful on the pitch with good, committed players.

 

No longer are the trivial things being concentrated on - try and imagine the end game : Southampton as a real major force in English football and perhaps you'll start believing a bit more? That's the one thing that we all need to focus on and that's the only commitment form the club that matters.

[Dave Benson Phillips]

I know it's hard to be patient when it seems no progress is being made, however some can see the bigger picture and see the club has turned a corner. It's not the same club admittedly in the sense that the ownership and strategy has changed, however what did you expect? More of the same underachievement as seen in the last 10-15 years? Do you really understand how ravished the club was in terms of it's position relative to a Prem team? Markus, NC and AP have had a massive re-building exercise to contend with. It's coming together slow but sure and Rome was not built in a day. Clearly NC's policy is 'quietly, quietly, catch the monkey' and that's fine by me providing we continue to be successful on the pitch with good, committed players.

 

No longer are the trivial things being concentrated on - try and imagine the end game : Southampton as a real major force in English football and perhaps you'll start believing a bit more? That's the one thing that we all need to focus on and that's the only commitment form the club that matters.

 

On the last post, I think it is important that people understand there are many different ways of supporting a club.

 

You are one of the "success at any cost" groups of fans. You want Southampton to get into the Premiership and be a major national force. For each one of you, there is as many, if not more that being in the Premiership is not on the list of priorities, let alone challenging for honours. With that comes costs... Cortese has put his markers out... "if you want Southampton to be in the Premiership, then it's you the fan that will pay for it, not Liebherr" , charging for just about everything they can get away with.

 

This will be acceptable to the core support ( which make up the majority of the forum, but the minority away from it ) but others are happy in League 1/Championship and away from the costs and commercialism of the Premiership.

[Saint_clark]

I've seen the reasoning behind all the decisions at St Marys recently, but if the Ted Bates Trophy is being scrapped I will be very, very p*ssed off.

[hypochondriac]

As usual, a balanced and understated post.

 

There are a number of possible and perfectly rational reasons for not holding the trophy game. The club have many initiatives that are currently underway to transform root and branch how the club operates to prepare for the exciting future ahead. To get the foundations right takes huge resource and planning and I can understand why NC wants focus on the important stuff right now. I also agree that AP might want a different pre-season focus for the squad.

 

However, it would be nice to keep the competition going. I think it might be much more befitting now for the trophy to be contested by the youth squad. Perhaps between our Academy and another Academy (Hoddles?) for example.

 

It would be nice if the club explained the reasoning behind it being scrapped if indeed this is the case wouldnt you say?

[Wes Tender]

It doesn't make it right in my opinion and it's removal would just be yet another example of the way the club is being treated by the new owners, with absolutely no respect for the clubs history unless it generates an income. All of the " will go whatever and pay whatever " customers might put up with it, that's less than 10,000 of you though, the rest won't put up with it.

 

It was only a matter of time before your spouting forth without any concrete evidence led to you contradicting yourself, but you have managed to do it on two fronts.

 

Firstly, you ignore the special anniversary shirt. So there we have a commemoration of our history going back to our very roots and a foregoing of additional revenue that could have been generated by having a sponsor tied up with it.

 

Secondly, if it proves true that we will not be playing the Ted Bates trophy match, then we will be foregoing the revenue that we might have generated from ticket sales too.

 

As for your assertion as to what the fan base would put up with and the numbers of them, I'd be interested in how you arrive at it. Are you elected as the representive mouth-piece for the the fan base, or do you just have a natural ability to know instinctively what everybody wants or would do?

[hypochondriac]

Just for once couldn't people, and Stu, wait until the facts are known before giving their insightful opinions and rage?

 

We don't know if it's been cancelled, moved, delayed, not yet announced, who decided it, what the family want, what teams are available, what Pardew thinks and so on. Maybe that's why there aren't more memorial games - it just becomes a nightmare if you don't do it one year. I'd prefer there was one, but I don't care who it's against, could easily make it the reading game.

 

I don't believe it has been scrapped. There'd be no point. It costs nothing to say 'it's the Reading game'.

 

And if no explanation is forthcoming?

[Wes Tender]

And if no explanation is forthcoming?

 

Why don't you email the club and ask for one? Simple

[hypochondriac]

Why don't you email the club and ask for one? Simple

 

And get the same sort of reply that Stu did when he asked about the installment plan? I emailled them recently and got a reply which contained nothing of interest.

[Dave Benson Phillips]

Just for once couldn't people, and Stu, wait until the facts are known before giving their insightful opinions and rage?

 

We don't know if it's been cancelled, moved, delayed, not yet announced, who decided it, what the family want, what teams are available, what Pardew thinks and so on. Maybe that's why there aren't more memorial games - it just becomes a nightmare if you don't do it one year. I'd prefer there was one, but I don't care who it's against, could easily make it the reading game.

 

I don't believe it has been scrapped. There'd be no point. It costs nothing to say 'it's the Reading game'.

 

Mary Bates died the year, out of a mark of respect for her at least there should be a game this year. 3 weeks away from the empty date in the game, you would expect any normal club to have the tickets on sale now and the game announced...

 

... that leads us to believe either it won't happen, or once again the club are playing mind games with fans by delaying the announcement.

 

If the club insist on never communicating with the fans then of course people will speculate and come up with their own theories, that is normal human behaviour. Luckily for them at the moment, there are alot of fans who will just sit back and wait for them not to communicate with the fans, however long it takes, before they start getting aggravated.

[miserableoldgit]

Just for once couldn't people, and Stu, wait until the facts are known before giving their insightful opinions and rage?

 

We don't know if it's been cancelled, moved, delayed, not yet announced, who decided it, what the family want, what teams are available, what Pardew thinks and so on. Maybe that's why there aren't more memorial games - it just becomes a nightmare if you don't do it one year. I'd prefer there was one, but I don't care who it's against, could easily make it the reading game.

 

I don't believe it has been scrapped. There'd be no point. It costs nothing to say 'it's the Reading game'.

:eek:

[St Landrew]

Has any announcement been made yet..? Not that I've seen. As far as I know there will be a Ted Bates Trophy match in the close season, just as there was last close season. Will Saints be in League One this coming season..? I don't know, as there has been no formal announcement. But I assume they will compete, don't you..?

[hypochondriac]

:eek:

 

Problem is, if the club never give us any facts then what are we supposed to do?

[hypochondriac]

Has any announcement been made yet..? Not that I've seen. As far as I know there will be a Ted Bates Trophy match in the close season, just as there was last close season. Will Saints be in League One this coming season..? I don't know, as there has been no formal announcement. But I assume they will compete, don't you..?

 

According to staff in the ticket office there is not one.

[miserableoldgit]

Problem is, if the club never give us any facts then what are we supposed to do?

Jump to conclusions or make something up?? You could also let the "masterplan" start to unfold first, then make up your mind, you know - have something concrete to form an opinion on?

[Dave Benson Phillips]

It was only a matter of time before your spouting forth without any concrete evidence led to you contradicting yourself, but you have managed to do it on two fronts.

 

Firstly, you ignore the special anniversary shirt. So there we have a commemoration of our history going back to our very roots and a foregoing of additional revenue that could have been generated by having a sponsor tied up with it.

 

Secondly, if it proves true that we will not be playing the Ted Bates trophy match, then we will be foregoing the revenue that we might have generated from ticket sales too.

 

As for your assertion as to what the fan base would put up with and the numbers of them, I'd be interested in how you arrive at it. Are you elected as the representive mouth-piece for the the fan base, or do you just have a natural ability to know instinctively what everybody wants or would do?

 

Firstly, the anniversary shirt is not a gesture ffs, it is a commercial decision! The extra revenue created from having a 1 year 'unique' kit is massively beneficial to the club. And by making it completely different to the normal kit, they will get repeat business next season.

 

Secondly, I imagine the real reason for the lack of the game is that is generated little revenue as most European teams command a 'fee' which I very much doubt Cortese will bother paying, regardless of the meaning of the game and the fact Mary died only weeks ago.

 

Lastly, I am speculating with figures, what I DO know is that every fan is different and has different ways of supporting SFC and different views on how much they will put up with from the club. Do you agree with that or not? How did I arrive at a figure of less than 10,000? Easy... because that's how many season ticket holders we are going to have.

[hypochondriac]

Jump to conclusions or make something up?? You could also let the "masterplan" start to unfold first, then make up your mind, you know - have something concrete to form an opinion on?

 

Staff at the ticket office have said there isn't one. How long should we wait for an explanation from the club before expressing discontent?

[Saint Fan CaM]

It would be nice if the club explained the reasoning behind it being scrapped if indeed this is the case wouldnt you say?

 

I think you've answered your own question there. We've not had any confirmation whatsoever that it's been scrapped. Even if it's been postponed, so what? If it had been organised, we'd have the likes of you and others complaining the club's making money out of Mary Bates death?! FFS...move on.

[Dave Benson Phillips]

Has any announcement been made yet..? Not that I've seen. As far as I know there will be a Ted Bates Trophy match in the close season, just as there was last close season. Will Saints be in League One this coming season..? I don't know, as there has been no formal announcement. But I assume they will compete, don't you..?

 

I tasked someone with emailing the club about TBT and was told " I am afraid there is no news about a Ted Bates Trophy Match "

 

If they had any intention then I am sure the reply would have been different.

[Matthew Le God]

I tasked someone with emailing the club about TBT and was told " I am afraid there is no news about a Ted Bates Trophy Match "

 

If they had any intention then I am sure the reply would have been different.

 

Why does it matter? Why do you need an annual match to remember him? It can be done in other ways. Pardew said last summer that games like Ajax game aren't good to have in preseason.

 

btw "I am afraid there is no news about a Ted Bates Trophy Match" doesn't mean there won't be any news in the future.

Edited 5 July, 2010 by Matthew Le God