15,000 Incompetent Teachers

[Johnny Bognor]

...in the education system!

 

I knew there were some, but didn't realise there were so many.

 

Only 18 have been sacked for incompetence in the last 40 years as apparently, they just get moved around in the hope that no-one will notice.

 

This is to be featured in a new panorama investigation called "can I sack the teacher?" showing tomorrow night.

 

As we have so many teachers on here, I would be interested to hear their thoughts. I might make an effort to watch this one.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00s8kpv

Edited 4 July, 2010 by Johnny Bognor

[CB Saint]

...in the education system!

 

I knew there were some, but didn't realise there were so many.

 

Only 18 have been sacked for incompetence in the last 40 years as apparently, they just get moved around in the hope that no-one will notice.

 

This is to be featured in a new panorama investigation called "can I sack the teacher?" showing tomorrow night.

 

As we have so many teachers on here, I would be interested to hear their thoughts. I might make an effort to watch this one.

 

That's because it is extraordinarily difficult to sack them, process and unions etc. Easier to palm them off on another school. It happens in large organisations where one department will move a pain in the ass to another department.

 

The real problem is unwieldly processes and weak management.

[Johnny Bognor]

That's because it is extraordinarily difficult to sack them, process and unions etc. Easier to palm them off on another school. It happens in large organisations where one department will move a pain in the ass to another department.

 

Hmm, but when cuts have to be made, larger organisations will get rid. If there are to be public sector cuts, I would rather that they start with incompetents.

[ottery st mary]

iNCOMPETENT PEEPS IN VARIOUS ORGANISATIONS.

 

A. 1 B. 50,000 C. 100,000 D. 11

 

 

A = The Saints Web Forum............Not really fair to name that poster.

 

 

Not sure in what order but B, C and D relate to The Police, Bankers and England footballers.

[CB Saint]

Hmm, but when cuts have to be made, larger organisations will get rid. If there are to be public sector cuts, I would rather that they start with incompetents.

 

Trouble is when large companies start to make redundancies, there is a wave of talented people who can get jobs elsewhere who quit. The incompetants often hang on for till the death knowing they will have a harder time get the same money and perks elsewhere. IBM was plagued with this for years.

[dune]

Johnny the simple truth is that becoming a teacher and becoming a public sector worker is a life choice in the same way as becoming an Incapacity Benefits slob is a life choice. In essence becoming a teacher/public sector worker is the easy option so it stands to reason that they attract those with little drive or motivation.

[Quickfire Double]

Johnny the simple truth is that becoming a teacher and becoming a public sector worker is a life choice in the same way as becoming an Incapacity Benefits slob is a life choice. In essence becoming a teacher/public sector worker is the easy option so it stands to reason that they attract those with little drive or motivation.

 

The only simple thing is you, you ridiculous c u n t.

[InvictaSaint]

You are either phenomenally stupid, or just horrendously arrogant. I have been teaching for 15 years and am now both an Assistant Headteacher and Head of a very large Sixth Form. I hold a First Class Honours Degree from a red brick university and regularly work 12-15 hour days. "Easy option"??! Take your head out of your backside and talk to people who actually do the job and you might actually get a handle on the pressures that are brought to bear on tens of thousands of decent hard working folk. Pressure from central government with innumerable initiatives, lack of power to deal with rude, violent and disruptive pupils, parents who treat education as though it were a customer service helpdesk. Just how is that "an easy option"? And before you wheel out the "13 weeks' paid holiday" mantra, please consult the teacher's pay and conditions handbook where you will read that teachers are actually only paid for the remaining 39 weeks of the year; holidays are in reality unpaid, and many teachers (me included) spend a great deal of time in school during those "weeks off".

[Whitey Grandad]

You are either phenomenally stupid, or just horrendously arrogant. I have been teaching for 15 years and am now both an Assistant Headteacher and Head of a very large Sixth Form. I hold a First Class Honours Degree from a red brick university and regularly work 12-15 hour days. "Easy option"??! Take your head out of your backside and talk to people who actually do the job and you might actually get a handle on the pressures that are brought to bear on tens of thousands of decent hard working folk. Pressure from central government with innumerable initiatives, lack of power to deal with rude, violent and disruptive pupils, parents who treat education as though it were a customer service helpdesk. Just how is that "an easy option"? And before you wheel out the "13 weeks' paid holiday" mantra, please consult the teacher's pay and conditions handbook where you will read that teachers are actually only paid for the remaining 39 weeks of the year; holidays are in reality unpaid, and many teachers (me included) spend a great deal of time in school during those "weeks off".

If you can't stand the heat....

 

Please don't try that 'holidays are unpaid' line again, you'll only get laughed at. If you don't contractually have to be at your usual place of employment and you can do what you like on those days off then you are 'on holiday'. Talk to anybody who runs their own business or is self-employed and you'll find that they work Saturdays and Sundays too, and they certainly don't get paid when they are not working.

[trousers]

You are either phenomenally stupid, or just horrendously arrogant. I have been teaching for 15 years and am now both an Assistant Headteacher and Head of a very large Sixth Form. I hold a First Class Honours Degree from a red brick university and regularly work 12-15 hour days. "Easy option"??! Take your head out of your backside and talk to people who actually do the job and you might actually get a handle on the pressures that are brought to bear on tens of thousands of decent hard working folk. Pressure from central government with innumerable initiatives, lack of power to deal with rude, violent and disruptive pupils, parents who treat education as though it were a customer service helpdesk. Just how is that "an easy option"? And before you wheel out the "13 weeks' paid holiday" mantra, please consult the teacher's pay and conditions handbook where you will read that teachers are actually only paid for the remaining 39 weeks of the year; holidays are in reality unpaid, and many teachers (me included) spend a great deal of time in school during those "weeks off".

 

Paragraphs

 

6/10

 

;-)

[bridge too far]

If this is the case, then I wonder why on earth it hasn't been addressed by the various governments in power during the past 40 years?

[70's Mike]

if this is the case, then i wonder why on earth it hasn't been addressed by the various governments in power during the past 40 years?

 

fear

[trousers]

If this is the case, then I wonder why on earth it hasn't been addressed by the various governments in power during the past 40 years?

 

Labour haven't because they're in the same idiolistic camp and the Tories haven't because they'd get left wingers moaning at them and going on strike. (and there's only so many left wingers you can get away with annoying in one parliamentary term)

 

;-)

[CB Saint]

You are either phenomenally stupid, or just horrendously arrogant. I have been teaching for 15 years and am now both an Assistant Headteacher and Head of a very large Sixth Form. I hold a First Class Honours Degree from a red brick university and regularly work 12-15 hour days. "Easy option"??! Take your head out of your backside and talk to people who actually do the job and you might actually get a handle on the pressures that are brought to bear on tens of thousands of decent hard working folk. Pressure from central government with innumerable initiatives, lack of power to deal with rude, violent and disruptive pupils, parents who treat education as though it were a customer service helpdesk. Just how is that "an easy option"? And before you wheel out the "13 weeks' paid holiday" mantra, please consult the teacher's pay and conditions handbook where you will read that teachers are actually only paid for the remaining 39 weeks of the year; holidays are in reality unpaid, and many teachers (me included) spend a great deal of time in school during those "weeks off".

 

Invicta - I have a genuine question which relates to the post subject. As an assistant headteacher you must have some responsibilty for assessing teacher competance. If, in your opinion, a teacher is a waste of space with no chance of changing, how do you get rid of them and how easy is it? Also does your school "pass on the problem"?

 

P.s. Ignore Dune - he's spouting again.

[CB Saint]

BTW if you are in fact not paid for holidays then the education authorities are breaking the law - You are entitled to 5.6 weeks paid holiday each year.

[bridge too far]

Labour haven't because they're in the same idiolistic camp and the Tories haven't because they'd get left wingers moaning at them and going on strike. (and there's only so many left wingers you can get away with annoying in one parliamentary term)

 

;-)

 

Did you mean to type 'idealistic' here?

 

Don't the school governors have some responsibility too?

[dune]

Labour haven't because they're in the same idiolistic camp and the Tories haven't because they'd get left wingers moaning at them and going on strike. (and there's only so many left wingers you can get away with annoying in one parliamentary term)

 

;-)

 

Let the lefties whinge I say. It's about time Britain was put back on it's feet and the lefties put back in their place.

[JustMike]

Johnny the simple truth is that becoming a teacher and becoming a public sector worker is a life choice in the same way as becoming an Incapacity Benefits slob is a life choice. In essence becoming a teacher/public sector worker is the easy option so it stands to reason that they attract those with little drive or motivation.

 

 

do you actually believe the dribble that you post?

 

So becoming a teacher / fire fighter / nurse etc etc is "easy" is it?

[suewhistle]

Imagine having to teach a class fullof little Dunes! It really doesn't bear thinking about. At least teaching English as a second language you get a nicer class of student.

[JustMike]

Imagine having to teach a class fullof little Dunes! It really doesn't bear thinking about. At least teaching English as a second language you get a nicer class of student.

 

education is unimportant to dune so i doubt he would turn up ;-)

[toofarnorth]

It is just so hard to fire someone for not being good at their job in the public sector. That simply isn't a good enough reason for unions etc. Apparently it's your fault if they're no good and you should pay/support their development. So if you can blag your way through any probationary periods you are set.

[toofarnorth]

Completely disagree with Dune though in that there are many incredibly hard working people in the public sector who do a great job, but are often let down by the dead wood that is so hard to get rid of.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

...in the education system!

 

I knew there were some, but didn't realise there were so many.

 

Only 18 have been sacked for incompetence in the last 40 years as apparently, they just get moved around in the hope that no-one will notice.

 

This is to be featured in a new panorama investigation called "can I sack the teacher?" showing tomorrow night.

 

As we have so many teachers on here, I would be interested to hear their thoughts. I might make an effort to watch this one.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00s8kpv

 

You will find that with the 'baby boomers' now reaching retirement age they will simply wait for them to retire rather than to sack them. There are some older teachers who are absolute class and will be a loss to the profession whe they retire, but some are simply counting down to that magical date. You will generally find the poor teachers are the ones who have been in a school for say 10 years and are cruising along. To stay 'fresh' in teaching you need to move schools at least once every 3-5 years otherwise you will become jaded and unmotivated. This is all 'IMHO' of course.

 

I'm not for one minute saying that poor teaching is reserved for those who are in their late 50s early 60s, but with the changes to education brought in during the last administration (NQT induction periods etc) it is far easier for a school to identify poor teachers early and give them the training they require.

 

JB, I would imagine that these 15,000 teachers are those that have been identified by OFSTED as 'unsatisfactory'?

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Johnny the simple truth is that becoming a teacher and becoming a public sector worker is a life choice in the same way as becoming an Incapacity Benefits slob is a life choice. In essence becoming a teacher/public sector worker is the easy option so it stands to reason that they attract those with little drive or motivation.

 

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...'Little drive or motivation' says the man who had so much drive that he just about managed to drag himself out of his bed in Mummy's house and complete a HND.

[Spudders]

Johnny the simple truth is that becoming a teacher and becoming a public sector worker is a life choice in the same way as becoming an Incapacity Benefits slob is a life choice. In essence becoming a teacher/public sector worker is the easy option so it stands to reason that they attract those with little drive or motivation.

 

Completely disagree with Dune though in that there are many incredibly hard working people in the public sector who do a great job, but are often let down by the dead wood that is so hard to get rid of.

 

But doesn't your point actually back up what Dune is saying! Just as in the thread last week about incapacity benefit Dune wasn’t saying that everyone on it are slobs, he’s not saying here that all teachers and all public sector workers are taking an easy option, I think anyone with an ounce of common sense would know that if that were the case the systems would quickly grind to a halt!

 

But you’ve just said it yourself, “the good workers are let down by dead wood”, that’s the problem, the system is too scared to get rid of them due to the long winded process of managing people out, combined with weak management not prepared to see it through.

 

I used to be an operations manager (private sector) and I managed several teams of people and one of my targets when I was offered the job was to get the department back on track as it was a mess. For me that meant getting rid of some of these kind of people and it was hard going, very hard going.

 

It meant documenting everything, having many meetings, setting performance improvement plans, being very careful that you said the right thing, did the right thing and followed the correct procedures to the letter. With all the individuals involved I’d have loved them to have proven me wrong and turned their performances around, but in each case my gut feeling was that it would only end with them leaving the company in one way or another and that’s what happened. But it was a long road involving, unions, threats of legal action, etc.

 

Fortunately as I did everything by the book I managed to eventually get rid of all those people. I knew everything was done correctly, but I can see why people don’t want to go down that route. I had a lot of sleepless nights and even the company that employed me to sort out this area lost it’s nerve at one point and I was pretty much left to do it on my own with only the support of a couple of my team leaders, so getting rid of deadwood is extremely hard.

 

 

As for Dunes comments, my sister works for the public sector and she hates her job. Every time I talk to her about it and I ask her why she doesn’t move on, she says that the benefits of the job are too good. To me that is a nonsense, as no benefits are worth it if you are ultimately unhappy in you job, but that is Dunes point isn’t it, she is happy to plod on because the benefits are good, even though I think she’s one of the good ones that toofarnorth refers too, she’s still happy to deal with the sh!t based on some of the job benefits.

 

She’s managing some people and recently ‘inherited’ a new employee from a different area of the business. This guy is exactly the kind of person we’re talking about, he’s a mid 40’s black guy who is quite frankly useless. She doesn’t know how he’s managed to build up 20 odd years service, but he’s also heavily involved in the union as he’s a rep so she is stuck with him as she think if she makes any effort to manage him out he’ll play both the union card and the race card!

[Thedelldays]

it must be hard for a teacher not being able to slap a tosspot of a student...

[View From The Top]

I would suggest that good teachers would be delighted to see the poor teachers weeded out. I know I would.

 

Every teachers knows who the cr@ps ones are, be them just s**t at their jobs or just cruising along awaiting "time done".

 

In poorer areas the issue is even more accurate as the worse the area the less likely the schools being able to recruit good staff. I see this every week. I know of one school who is attempting to recruit someone made redundant from the financial services industry to teach maths as they just cannot find a qualified maths teacher, despite the golden hellos on offer.

 

Teachers can go stale very quickly (as well as uber cynical) so I wouldn't mind a law that means that we can only spend 5 years max in a single position and after that have to move on (unless having moved up the ladder in situ).

[dune]

As for Dunes comments, my sister works for the public sector and she hates her job. Every time I talk to her about it and I ask her why she doesn’t move on, she says that the benefits of the job are too good. To me that is a nonsense, as no benefits are worth it if you are ultimately unhappy in you job, but that is Dunes point isn’t it, she is happy to plod on because the benefits are good, even though I think she’s one of the good ones that toofarnorth refers too, she’s still happy to deal with the sh!t based on some of the job benefits.

 

Precisely, the public sector is geared to attract those who's outlook of working life is to plod along and then draw a grossly inflated pension.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

it must be hard for a teacher not being able to slap a tosspot of a student...

 

That's true and, on the odd occasion, one of the poor buggers does lose it. The trouble is that some of these kids 'know their rights' and push it as hard as they can knowing that even should the school support the teacher then a parent can turn up to get all lairy with said teacher.

 

I noted that, I think it was Thorpe Le Saint (a teacher ?), mentioned teachers getting stale after a few years in the one position. My son's school has just that problem. Not with any old teacher, more the Head Teacher who I have taken issue with over inconsistencies more than once. This Head Teacher is, IMHO, too set in her ways and I almost always come away vowing never to deal with her again. I have now told my son to deal with his bully as soon as they get outside the school gate. I have also told the Head Teacher this will be the way forward, during one of her 'let's look at my different coloured pebbles collection' sessions.

[trousers]

The NHS is exactly the same - nigh on impossible to sack anyone by management discretion.

 

My sister in law is a senior matron at our local hospital and comes home on a daily basis exasperated by the amount of staff working for her that are lazy and/or incompetent but the number of hoops she has to jump through to get rid of them is simply crazy.

 

In the private sector if you're crap you get slung out. In the public sector management get dragged down by an avalanche of beaurocracy designed to protect incompetent employees in the name of "human rights"...

[dune]

I found when I was at school that the best teachers were the disciplinarians - the teachers who ruled the classroom. There was never bad discipline in their classes and personally I enjoyed these classes because you actually learnt something. The sad thing is that the said teachers were all "old school" and I expect they've all now retired to be replaced by Liberal types.

[trousers]

I found when I was at school that the best teachers were the disciplinarians - the teachers who ruled the classroom. There was never bad discipline in their classes and personally I enjoyed these classes because you actually learnt something. The sad thing is that the said teachers were all "old school" and I expect they've all now retired to be replaced by Liberal types.

 

100% agree. The best lessons I had were with teachers you had a healthy fear of. I still remember being a bit scared of them but it's also the knowledge they imparted that I remember most too.

 

Bring back teacher led discipline in schools.

[dune]

100% agree. The best lessons I had were with teachers you had a healthy fear of. I still remember being a bit scared of them but it's also the knowledge they imparted that I remember most too.

 

Bring back teacher led discipline in schools.

 

I will report back to the forum if and when I get a reply on this issue from the education secretary...

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Precisely, the public sector is geared to attract those who's outlook of working life is to plod along and then draw a grossly inflated pension.

 

It is not geared that way on purpose and I'm sure that, despite your blinkered attitude, you know that to be the case.

 

Public sector work/employment also attracts those who feel that they can make, or contribute to, a difference. Those that join quickly find they can take three routes, in my opinion.

 

1. Stay and work hard at the position.

 

2. Stay, assimilate the easy way (the way we all dislike) I still believe that these are in the minority.

 

3. Get out and earn a living elsewhere.

[View From The Top]

It is not geared that way on purpose and I'm sure that, despite your blinkered attitude, you know that to be the case.

 

Public sector work/employment also attracts those who feel that they can make, or contribute to, a difference. Those that join quickly find they can take three routes, in my opinion.

 

1. Stay and work hard at the position.

 

2. Stay, assimilate the easy way (the way we all dislike) I still believe that these are in the minority.

 

3. Get out and earn a living elsewhere.

 

4. Have had a career in the private sector and now want to go and "make a difference" in the public sector. The whole teaching team I work with fall under that and it's quite common now. One of my chief criteria when recruiting is genuine life/work experience and it's very rare that I take on anyone under 30 - 35.

[View From The Top]

100% agree. The best lessons I had were with teachers you had a healthy fear of. I still remember being a bit scared of them but it's also the knowledge they imparted that I remember most too.

 

Bring back teacher led discipline in schools.

 

Never going to happen.

[Lord Duckhunter]

There has not been the political will to get rid of useless teachers and I dont understand why. Surley these useless people are letting down the rest of their profession and leaving them open to stupid comments about holidays and working hours.Are other public services the same, do we sack useless coppers, or useless nurses? you would hope so.

 

Somebody has to make a decision on teachers competance and that decison should be made by the Headmaster. He/she is at the school day in day out, they will know which teachers are not performing, will hear whispers from collagues and pupils alike. There needs to be a clear and precise disipinary system to deal with capability issues, and surely it's as much in the unions interest to get rid of the deadwood, as it is the parents. The best teachers should be paid more, and the worst drummed out. Unfortunatly the unions are happy for useless teachers to stay in the profession, rather than better pay for their more able members. My Uncle was a Headteacher for many years, he was a decent hard working man, although a bit boring. Trendy new teaching methods that change all the time and poor teachers are bringing down education in this Country, according to him.

[rpb]

Invicta - I have a genuine question which relates to the post subject. As an assistant headteacher you must have some responsibilty for assessing teacher competance. If, in your opinion, a teacher is a waste of space with no chance of changing, how do you get rid of them and how easy is it? Also does your school "pass on the problem"?

 

The teacher is taken through 'Competency Procedures' - he/she is informed of the problem officially, given help/training as necessary, set clear deadlines to improve, monitored and, if the problem is not resolved by then, he/she is sacked. It can take up to a year though and involves unions reps, county council advisers, etc..

Edited 4 July, 2010 by rpb
sub standard punctuation

[EastleighSoulBoy]

4. Have had a career in the private sector and now want to go and "make a difference" in the public sector. The whole teaching team I work with fall under that and it's quite common now. One of my chief criteria when recruiting is genuine life/work experience and it's very rare that I take on anyone under 30 - 35.

 

Yes, a good point which I omitted despite it being in my thoughts. Thanks.

[bridge too far]

4. Have had a career in the private sector and now want to go and "make a difference" in the public sector. The whole teaching team I work with fall under that and it's quite common now. One of my chief criteria when recruiting is genuine life/work experience and it's very rare that I take on anyone under 30 - 35.

 

Exactly what my son-in-law did. He was working for a large company that regularly undertook projects in schools. My SiL was allocated to a school with a vibrant special needs department. He so loved working with the children that he gave up his (very well paid) job, went back to university (Solent, as it happened) to do his PGCE and is now a teacher with responsibility for special needs education in his school.

 

He is earning half of what he would have, had he stayed in his previous job but he wouldn't go back to the old job because of the sheer enjoyment and satisfaction he gets out of teaching.

 

I don't think he's unique.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Just a thought now.

 

We suddenly have 15,000 'useless' teachers.

 

As some may want on here, we sack them rather than refocus them.

 

We then swell, for however long it takes, the unemployed by some 15,000 who will wish to claim benefits for them and, if not sat at home living off Mum and Dad, their families.

 

Will these 15,000 be entitled to benefits and how long before we get people on here labelling them as slobs?

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Exactly what my son-in-law did. He was working for a large company that regularly undertook projects in schools. My SiL was allocated to a school with a vibrant special needs department. He so loved working with the children that he gave up his (very well paid) job, went back to university (Solent, as it happened) to do his PGCE and is now a teacher with responsibility for special needs education in his school.

 

He is earning half of what he would have, had he stayed in his previous job but he wouldn't go back to the old job because of the sheer enjoyment and satisfaction he gets out of teaching.

 

I don't think he's unique.

 

I worked in the NHS for some 6 months and I agree that your SiL is not unique.

 

But this type of person gets forgotten, which is a pity.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Just a thought now.

 

We suddenly have 15,000 'useless' teachers.

 

As some may want on here, we sack them rather than refocus them.

 

We then swell, for however long it takes, the unemployed by some 15,000 who will wish to claim benefits for them and, if not sat at home living off Mum and Dad, their families.

 

Will these 15,000 be entitled to benefits and how long before we get people on here labelling them as slobs?

 

So you would rather useless teachers teach my children, than claim benefits?

 

In any profession there is a % of people who are not up to the job, that's just a fact of life. Teaching's not for me, so I dont pretend that it's easy. I would love to be able to inspire and shape children, I can think of no more rewarding job. However, I would not be capable of doing it.There's no shame in being a poor teacher, it's a very special job, that need very special people ,and some teachers are just not capable.I would love to know the figures for teachers sacked through capability, rather than conduct. If I was a betting man I would put my money on the figure being a lot lower than other professions. Is this because we train them up to such a high standard that every teacher is competant, or is it because it's damn near impossible to get rid of them?

 

Let's reward the good and get rid of the bad.

[Johnny Bognor]

In any profession there is a % of people who are not up to the job, that's just a fact of life. Teaching's not for me, so I dont pretend that it's easy. I would love to be able to inspire and shape children, I can think of no more rewarding job. However, I would not be capable of doing it.There's no shame in being a poor teacher, it's a very special job, that need very special people ,and some teachers are just not capable.I would love to know the figures for teachers sacked through capability, rather than conduct. If I was a betting man I would put my money on the figure being a lot lower than other professions. Is this because we train them up to such a high standard that every teacher is competant, or is it because it's damn near impossible to get rid of them?

 

According to Panorama, a total of 18 teachers have been sacked in the last 40 years on the basis of incompetence.

[Johnny Bognor]

You are either phenomenally stupid, or just horrendously arrogant. I have been teaching for 15 years and am now both an Assistant Headteacher and Head of a very large Sixth Form. I hold a First Class Honours Degree from a red brick university and regularly work 12-15 hour days.

.

 

I salute you sir. You are far harder working than BTF's lazy son in law as on agood day he only puts 10 hours a day in

 

Having said this, you still work less hours than the average 7-11 shop keeper (who has far less holiday and zero benefits and I guess less pay) so you need to up your game if you're going to impress me.....

 

EDIT: Having read BTF's later posting, I take that back . BTF, fair play to your SiL as working with special needs takes a real dedicated professional. Not everyone wants to be a teacher, but not many of those that do, would opt to work with special needs. To sacrifice the benefits he enjoyed before is also admirable. My older brother is autistic and remember visiting special needs schools to see him when I was growing up. I would say that this is probably the most challenging of teaching jobs, whilst being the most forgotton.

Edited 4 July, 2010 by Johnny Bognor

[View From The Top]

According to Panorama, a total of 18 teachers have been sacked in the last 40 years on the basis of incompetence.

 

Can't say I've ever come across it myself but I have known many teachers resign when faced with the evidence of their inability or take early retirement.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

So you would rather useless teachers teach my children, than claim benefits?

 

In any profession there is a % of people who are not up to the job, that's just a fact of life. Teaching's not for me, so I dont pretend that it's easy. I would love to be able to inspire and shape children, I can think of no more rewarding job. However, I would not be capable of doing it.There's no shame in being a poor teacher, it's a very special job, that need very special people ,and some teachers are just not capable.I would love to know the figures for teachers sacked through capability, rather than conduct. If I was a betting man I would put my money on the figure being a lot lower than other professions. Is this because we train them up to such a high standard that every teacher is competant, or is it because it's damn near impossible to get rid of them?

 

Let's reward the good and get rid of the bad.

 

Could you actually tie me down to where I said that I preferred that please.

 

Please read what I said about 'refocussing them'. Sorry if I didn't go the whole way to explain the process to you but I thought it had been laid out for us previously how the procedure should work.

 

I'm postulating the theory that many on here will want to 'sack the lot of them', probably without going down any legally agreed procedures. When those who don't shape up are, finally, shipped out I posed the point that they would, in all probability, claim benefits. Given that point, how long before they are being labelled as 'slobs' and 'benefit cheats'?

 

That is all I asked.

[View From The Top]

I salute you sir. You are far harder working than BTF's lazy son in law. On a good day he only puts 10 hours a day in.

 

Having said this, you still work less hours than the average 7-11 shop keeper (who has far less holiday and zero benefits and I guess less pay) so you need to up your game if you're going to impress me..

 

Boo hoo. Nasty teachers making the supa dupa private sector work extra hard. Diddums.

 

I guess if those in the private sector were better at their jobs and therefore better at making a profit then they wouldn't have to work so hard. I have no sympathy for their incompetence.

[teamsaint]

That may , in some cases, be true.

 

As it goes, a teacher has to do 40 years, and contribute 6% of earnings , to get a pension of roughly half their final salary.Compared to many this is a good deal, but it really doesn't qualify as grossly inflated, does it?

And most incompetent teachers just resign before they are pushed. At one time there was lots of enhanced retirement to get them out, but those days are long gone.Now they mostly just leave, before they are pushed out.

[bridge too far]

Thanks for your kind comments Johnny Bognor

 

And, as I pointed out on another thread, it's not just the extra hours he works, and his own money he spends on projects. Probably the most distressing thing for him is having to work [with other professionals (doctors, nurses, social workers)] in dealing with child abuse.

 

I see my SIL every Friday (when I look after their son). Every Friday he walks in at 6pm absolutely grey and drained. And I've seen him in tears at some of the appalling stuff he has to deal with.

 

I've also seen the sheer joy on his face when he's talking about a milestone achieved by one of 'his' children.

 

But again, as I said before, he's not unique. He's just doing his job. And I don't begrudge him a penny of his salary. In fact I think he should earn a lot, lot more.