syd_barrett_saint Posted 3 July, 2010 Share Posted 3 July, 2010 What an absurd argument, a 13 year old is perfectly able to be a football player which he was. As I have stated now about 20 times no fair minded player would handle the ball. We are not discussing Harry Kewell ( I didn't see it anyway) but based on your comments my reaction would be exactly the same. It's not absurd at all. Real footballers want to win, and do so within the rules. Suarez knew the rules, and the punishment for what he did, so it was not cheating. In fact, it was justice for Uruguay who had been denied a cast-iron penalty in the first half of extra time, and then had to face the free kick that led to Suarez's save in the last seconds because the ref gave Ghana the free kick when one of their players tripped over himself. Had Ghana scored and won the game from that set play, it would have been a real injustice. Suarez did what he had to do in the situation, and got his punishment for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 3 July, 2010 Share Posted 3 July, 2010 Btw, how do we all feel this morning about the pictures in the tabloids of Forlan, Lugano and co parading Suarez round on their shoulders ? What a hero..... Well, I don't think that's going to impress FIFA, who are considering extending the ban. If the Uruguayans had any sense, they'd at least pretend to show some remorse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 3 July, 2010 Share Posted 3 July, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIfd3SBZdTY&feature=related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 3 July, 2010 Author Share Posted 3 July, 2010 It's not absurd at all. Real footballers want to win, and do so within the rules. Suarez knew the rules, and the punishment for what he did, so it was not cheating. In fact, it was justice for Uruguay who had been denied a cast-iron penalty in the first half of extra time, and then had to face the free kick that led to Suarez's save in the last seconds because the ref gave Ghana the free kick when one of their players tripped over himself. Had Ghana scored and won the game from that set play, it would have been a real injustice. Suarez did what he had to do in the situation, and got his punishment for it. It's even more absurd, how does your age determine if you are a "real player" or not ? Which rule precisely states that handling on the line is not cheating and is acceptable ? I have stated several times that I'm able to see both sides of this argument, sadly other people can't. More fool them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 3 July, 2010 Share Posted 3 July, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIfd3SBZdTY&feature=related That was worse, if anything. He had plenty of time to make that decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 3 July, 2010 Author Share Posted 3 July, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIfd3SBZdTY&feature=related Blatant handball, blatant cheating, should have been sent off and missed the final. I doubt he was even booked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 3 July, 2010 Share Posted 3 July, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIfd3SBZdTY&feature=related I like the commentry "and Jackie Charlton blunders". A South American cheats, but an Englishman "blunders". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 3 July, 2010 Share Posted 3 July, 2010 Blatant handball, blatant cheating, should have been sent off and missed the final. I doubt he was even booked. He wasn't booked because those were the rules at the time. It was situations like this that led to a change in the rules. The rules now are a 1 match ban, if FIFA want to change them, then fair play. However, you can not backdate them on the basis that an African missed a peno in Africa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd_barrett_saint Posted 3 July, 2010 Share Posted 3 July, 2010 It's even more absurd, how does your age determine if you are a "real player" or not ? Which rule precisely states that handling on the line is not cheating and is acceptable ? I have stated several times that I'm able to see both sides of this argument, sadly other people can't. More fool them. Is fouling someone deliberately in the centre circle, knowing you will give away a free kick, cheating? I would say no. It is the same with the Suarez situation. Against the rules of the game, so punished according to those rules. No cheating involved. And I never said that age had anything to do with it. I just said he was not a real football player. But feel free to concentrate on that, and ignore the fact that Suarez just broke a rule and was punished accordingly, plus that Suarez and Uruguay had already been subject to injustices in the same match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd_barrett_saint Posted 3 July, 2010 Share Posted 3 July, 2010 Someone is probably going to come back at me now and say that breaking any rule is cheating (which is so obvious that I thought I should say it first!) In my opinion, cheating is breaking the rules and trying to get away with it without being punished. Like with Maradona and Henry. Breaking a rule and being punished for it with a freekick, card, ban etc is part of the game. If that is cheating, then all players are cheats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 3 July, 2010 Share Posted 3 July, 2010 Shearer and Hansen said the same, I beg to differ and that also is a shameful thing to say. I don't pay my licence fee to listen to overpaid pundits condoning cheating and that is absolutely what it was. When I've seen a 13/14 year old schoolboy standing on the line in the same situation and NOT handle the ball and in reply to why he didn't respond " Because it would have been cheating " then my mind boggles at what seems to have become acceptable not only in football but in most walks of life. Learn from your elders ? Clearly not. Great post. I know how I want my kids to grow up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 3 July, 2010 Share Posted 3 July, 2010 I believe you:D hehehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 3 July, 2010 Author Share Posted 3 July, 2010 Is fouling someone deliberately in the centre circle, knowing you will give away a free kick, cheating? I would say no. It is the same with the Suarez situation. Against the rules of the game, so punished according to those rules. No cheating involved. And I never said that age had anything to do with it. I just said he was not a real football player. But feel free to concentrate on that, and ignore the fact that Suarez just broke a rule and was punished accordingly, plus that Suarez and Uruguay had already been subject to injustices in the same match. No, I'll concentrate on keeping things in perspective, not ignoring the opposite viewpoint but merely disagreeing with it but respecting it nonetheless. Sadly other people chose to adopt a blinkered and seemingly provocative approach though that is no more than I would expect that on here. In the unlikely event you've taken the time to read through this thread you'll know my feelings on the subject, you'll also know I have stated until I'm blue in the face I don't expect everyone to agree. But if you contradict yourself by stating that age has nothing to do with it but follow that by stating a 13/14 year old is not a a real football player which is blatantly absurd ( I assume you just made that up ?) then I'm afraid it is really hard to take your argument seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 3 July, 2010 Author Share Posted 3 July, 2010 Great post. I know how I want my kids to grow up. I have the feeling you and I pretty much stand alone on this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 3 July, 2010 Share Posted 3 July, 2010 Well, I don't think that's going to impress FIFA, who are considering extending the ban. If the Uruguayans had any sense, they'd at least pretend to show some remorse. Yep. Apparently, FIFA dont know their own rule book, according to some on here. About a month ago, my eldest got a right b*ll*cking from his trainer across the pitch when he laughed out loud at the opposite team fluffing a peno. Last night, Suarez pretended to cry as he trudged off the pitch, then laughed hysterically when he saw the miss. He's a complete w*nker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd_barrett_saint Posted 3 July, 2010 Share Posted 3 July, 2010 No, I'll concentrate on keeping things in perspective, not ignoring the opposite viewpoint but merely disagreeing with it but respecting it nonetheless. Sadly other people chose to adopt a blinkered and seemingly provocative approach though that is no more than I would expect that on here. In the unlikely event you've taken the time to read through this thread you'll know my feelings on the subject, you'll also know I have stated until I'm blue in the face I don't expect everyone to agree. But if you contradict yourself by stating that age has nothing to do with it but follow that by stating a 13/14 year old is not a a real football player which is blatantly absurd ( I assume you just made that up ?) then I'm afraid it is really hard to take your argument seriously. If you re-read my posts, you will see that I did not contradict myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd_barrett_saint Posted 3 July, 2010 Share Posted 3 July, 2010 Yep. Apparently, FIFA dont know their own rule book, according to some on here. About a month ago, my eldest got a right b*ll*cking from his trainer across the pitch when he laughed out loud at the opposite team fluffing a peno. Last night, Suarez pretended to cry as he trudged off the pitch, then laughed hysterically when he saw the miss. He's a complete w*nker. I think you'll find that Suarez was probably upset at having been sent off AND the prospect of Ghana scoring the penalty and sending Uruguay out of the World Cup. They missed the penalty, so like the rest of the Uruguayan players, he was then happy (and, in my view, on the balance of the game/decisions, justice WAS done). Is that hard to understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd_barrett_saint Posted 3 July, 2010 Share Posted 3 July, 2010 I have the feeling you and I pretty much stand alone on this I would want my kids to have fun, and to win, within the rules. Suarez did all of that last night (he hand-balled, knowing the rules would see him sent off and a penalty given, and in doing so, helped his team to win, within the rules - no rules were broken, because Suarez and his team were punished within them. Now if you want to see the rules changed to stop Suarez doing what he did, that is another matter entirely) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 3 July, 2010 Share Posted 3 July, 2010 I would want my kids to have fun, and to win, within the rules. Suarez did all of that last night (he hand-balled, knowing the rules would see him sent off and a penalty given, and in doing so, helped his team to win, within the rules - no rules were broken, because Suarez and his team were punished within them. Now if you want to see the rules changed to stop Suarez doing what he did, that is another matter entirely) Hang on, I thought it was instinctive ? As has been said elsewhere, putting your team down to 10men with no playing time left and leaving justice to an extremely tough peno test is no justice at all. It changes certain defeat into a fighting chance. Also, just read in the Sun that FIFA have already decided to leave the ban at one game. A sad day for sporting fairness, and makes all the "Say no to Racism" lecturing pre-game seem a bit hollow.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd_barrett_saint Posted 3 July, 2010 Share Posted 3 July, 2010 (edited) You can do something instinctively and still know that you will be punished for it. They aren't mutually exclusive! And as I said, if you watched the rest of the game as a neutral, you would have seen that on the whole, justice WAS done. What's it got to do with racism, though? A lot of mixed-up thought processes going on here.... Edited 3 July, 2010 by syd_barrett_saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 3 July, 2010 Share Posted 3 July, 2010 Yep. . Last night, Suarez pretended to cry as he trudged off the pitch, then laughed hysterically when he saw the miss. He's a complete w*nker. He didn't "pretend" to cry, he thought they were going out of the World Cup, as a result of his handball, there were also Ghana players celebrating the award of the Peno, isn't that against your fine spirit of sportsmenship?. I don't believe for one minute that he "laughed hysterically" because of the miss, it was a mixture of relief and joy. I also saw the Ghana players cheering and celebrating when a Uruguay player skyed his peno, and they were still in it. It's human nature. Do you consider jack Charlton one of the hero's of '66 a complete ******, do you think he should give his medal back? This has been blown out of all Proportion, because it was an African nation in Africa. It's a bit condescending to them if you ask me, with a hint of political correctness. If it was against England, the world would be celebrating. The mistake Suarez seems to have made is doing it against Africans, as opposed to say Ireland, and the fact that they missed the peno and then went onto lose the shootout. Had they scored the Peno, or won the shootout, he would get a 1 match ban. He now may get two for the sole reason the African's can't take Peno's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 3 July, 2010 Author Share Posted 3 July, 2010 This would be a terrible decision, changing the rules just because it was against Ghana in Africa. I would liken it to the Football League bending their own rules to make sure Saints got -10 points. PS - It wasn't unsporting conduct. It was a split second, automatic reaction by Suarez. Any player would have done the same, and Suarez has already been punished enough with the red card, penalty and ban from the semis. I would want my kids to have fun, and to win, within the rules. Suarez did all of that last night (he hand-balled, knowing the rules would see him sent off and a penalty given, and in doing so, helped his team to win, within the rules - no rules were broken, because Suarez and his team were punished within them. Now if you want to see the rules changed to stop Suarez doing what he did, that is another matter entirely) If you re-read my posts, you will see that I did not contradict myself. You clearly did despite your feeble attempts to deny it. Also at what age does someone become a "real football player" ? 10/12/14/16/18/20... ? Make it up as you go along why don't you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd_barrett_saint Posted 3 July, 2010 Share Posted 3 July, 2010 I clearly did not, chrisobee. I said: "Right... he was 13/14 year old schoolboy, NOT a football player, then." At no point did I say that ALL 13/14 year olds are not football players. It has nothing to do with age. If you misinterpreted what I said, then sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 3 July, 2010 Share Posted 3 July, 2010 Bored with this now. Suarez and Uruguay have got away with murder. End of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 3 July, 2010 Share Posted 3 July, 2010 Syd, Chris, Duck, Alps... We're clearly never going to come at this debate from the same direction so we should probably let it lie now. However, it's been fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 3 July, 2010 Author Share Posted 3 July, 2010 Syd, Chris, Duck, Alps... We're clearly never going to come at this debate from the same direction so we should probably let it lie now. However, it's been fun. Clearly Ponty, I'm done. I started this thread, maybe I should end it! What to debate in the Spain v Paraguay game though:lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 3 July, 2010 Author Share Posted 3 July, 2010 I clearly did not, chrisobee. I said: "Right... he was 13/14 year old schoolboy, NOT a football player, then." At no point did I say that ALL 13/14 year olds are not football players. It has nothing to do with age. If you misinterpreted what I said, then sorry. Ok, I get you......I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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