Ghana v Uruguay

[Micky]

Hate to say it but I don't think the guy cheated at all - if that is the case then every player who committed a tackle or handball anywhere on the pitch could be labelled much the same. The bottom line is he commited a foul (rule 12 I think) and the officials dealt with it correctly. Unfortunately for Ghana they were unable to convert the situation to thier advantage - which ultimately is a shame - but is also why millions upon millions watch the game.

 

The word cheat is used far to readily - as SS has stated above, the guy had a split second to think about what he was going to do and then execute the action - he did not go through the game thinking 'I'm going to cheat in the 120th minute of this one'.

 

It may seem a little hard to take, even distasteful to some - but if an England (or Saints) player had done the same I wonder if they would so readily be labelled.

[chrisobee]

Penalty Try - In Rugby League

 

"This is awarded when a player is denied an OBVIOUS try by an OBVIOUS foul. "

 

 

Not that difficult to implement, fair to say I've never seen a penalty try awarded when it should not have been. A simple solution but in many ways football is still in the dark ages

[skintsaint]

can we introduce LBW as well?

[angelman]

Does anyone know the rules? I thought that a penalty goal could be given in circumstances like this. Never known one given but if it is in the rules..........!!

[dubai_phil]

Lol at the debate. It wasn't fair, they got away with it. Well life ain't fair either.

 

As for introducing hanging or whatever as an extra punishment during a game, at what level do you write the law? When a player is standing on the goal line? What if he is an inch in front of it? When he is the only player between the ball and the goal? There was another player all but on the line. Would you hang someone for a handball by the penalty spot?

 

The problem with implementing these types of reactive laws is that they are still open for interpretation by humans. How often have WE seen games where the last man has done a professional foul and NOT been sent off? OR has NOT done a professional foul and HAS been sent off.

 

It's a bit like reading the comments pages about "Rebuilding The England Team" in many of the online papers. Everybody tells you who Cappello must never pick again, but not one of them actually suggests relacements that could win an international match.

 

 

The real culprit here is not the laws and the penalties, it is that poor Ghanian forward Gyan. He had had a damned good game, and he held the hopes of a Continent on his shoulders. He failed. Not the laws, not FIFA, one poor dumb footballer failed. That burden will be on his shoulders for the rest of his life, that when he was needed, he was a failure.

 

Sod the laws, HE is the poor sod I feel sorry for, he'll be re-living that horrific moment every time he goes onto a football field and probably every time he goes to bed. No one person should have to suffer that.

[Hatch]

It's cheating, and Uruguay got away with it as the current rules/punishments do not adequately cover the seriousness of the handball.

But saying that, there is no way it can be covered because it is impossible to determine between the different types of handball.

ie Harry Kewell did the same thing, or did he?

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Why is it... that every team that has crashed out the players have broken down, england just wandered off like nothing happened

 

The only answer I can think of, and I have slept on this question, is that it didn't matter a jot to them.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

It will be a one game ban, as dictated by the laws by which the game is played.

 

And, Chris, almost every player would have done the same. I think I'd be disappointed if a ball went past a Saints player in the same situation.

 

Harsh but totally true. We'd scream at Fonte if he let something like that opportunity go begging.

[manji]

Does anyone really think Saurez planned to cheat it was just a gut reaction decision. Anyway I am glad Ghana are out it puts to an end all the nauseating "the whole World/Africa/Crowd is behind Ghana" patronising ******** thats been spouted.

I also enjoyed the irony of a Pompey player currently famous for missing a penalty advising his teammates on how to take penalties ......

[Kadeem Hardison]

Penalty Try - In Rugby League

 

"This is awarded when a player is denied an OBVIOUS try by an OBVIOUS foul. "

 

 

Not that difficult to implement, fair to say I've never seen a penalty try awarded when it should not have been. A simple solution but in many ways football is still in the dark ages

 

Bit different, given the high-scoring nature of rugby. I'd imagine that 95% of penalty tries would not affect the outcome of a game in Rugby. In football, it would be more like 95% WOULD affect the outcome. Possession is a completely different kettle of fish in rugby and football. It would be much easier to keep the ball having gone 1-0 in football than it would in rugby.

[Saint in Paradise]

 

 

 

The real culprit here is not the laws and the penalties, it is that poor Ghanian forward Gyan. He had had a damned good game, and he held the hopes of a Continent on his shoulders. He failed. Not the laws, not FIFA, one poor dumb footballer failed. That burden will be on his shoulders for the rest of his life, that when he was needed, he was a failure.

 

 

Perhaps he is the one who should be hanged then

[Thedelldays]

a sending off

a free shot from 12 yards

a key player missing the semi final

 

 

pretty much 3 lots of punishment in one there

[dubai_phil]

Perhaps he is the one who should be hanged then

 

He's probably glad he isn't a Nigerian - would probably being 20 years hard labour by now on the orders of his President.

 

 

 

Changing tack a little Stoke seem to have found a decent defender for their style in the Ghana CB Varson or someone, also glad they're out as I am sure John Helm was the agent for their Keeper, every 20 minutes in every game he kept reminding us he was Wigan's 4th choice and was looking for a new club

[JackFrost]

Why is it... that every team that has crashed out the players have broken down, england just wandered off like nothing happened

 

Cos all they care about is their bank accounts.

 

As for the handball Uruguay got the punishment they deserved (Suarez sent off, Ghana given penalty) but Ghana failed to capitalise.

 

Besides at least the linesman saw the handball and a penalty was awarded. I could fully understand the uproar if they'd have missed the handball but they didn't, they gave it, made a very good decision but Gyan failed to score.

[alpine_saint]

and it may not be a popular view right now, but Uruguay have been one of the more entertaining teams in the tournament.

 

 

Really ?

 

Putting aside last nights cheating, I have watched every one of their games and have found them to be negative, defensive and they strangle games. Last nights game only opened up because Ghana attacked, scored the first goal and thereby opened it up.

[alpine_saint]

Btw, how do we all feel this morning about the pictures in the tabloids of Forlan, Lugano and co parading Suarez round on their shoulders ?

 

What a hero.....

[OldNick]

I think he did what all footballers did, the same as Henry and his handball.

As a fan, if my player did that and we went on to win ,it would tarnish the memory but 2 games later and you are in the cup final, all is forgotten. It is no different to the German keeper not telling the ref the ball had gone over the line.

[scott_saints]

Btw, how do we all feel this morning about the pictures in the tabloids of Forlan, Lugano and co parading Suarez round on their shoulders ?

 

What a hero.....

 

I assume if you were his team mate you would be absolutely disgusted that he gave you the chance to make the world cup semi finals?

[Red Alert]

I have to say that I am on the side of he did a good thing, quick thinking and I would expect any Saints player or indeed just about any quick minded footballer would have done the same. Yes he broke a rule in the game but risk vs reward he gambled and came out on top. Fair play to the lad.

[chrisobee]

Bit different, given the high-scoring nature of rugby. I'd imagine that 95% of penalty tries would not affect the outcome of a game in Rugby. In football, it would be more like 95% WOULD affect the outcome. Possession is a completely different kettle of fish in rugby and football. It would be much easier to keep the ball having gone 1-0 in football than it would in rugby.

 

Not really sure the point you are trying to make here. In Rugby penalty tries are rare as players know they'll not only concede the try anyway but quite possibly get sent off, sin bin for 10 minutes at least. A lot of RL games are close affairs these days, last night Salford 17 Quins 14 so a penalty try awarded or not might well have affected the outcome.

[Saint Martini]

You've taken a lot of penos in front of 50000 people in WC QFs, have you ?

 

Sorry, that was not a gilt-edge chance, it was a terrifying moment for the guy. When Suarez cheated, he handed an unfair advantage to Uruguay.

 

If that is how he is feeling he shouldn't be taking the penalty. It is his possibility to be the nations hero, if you don't relish the opportunity then you should leave the responsibility to someone else.

 

The fact of the matter is that Suarez commited a foul and got his punishment according to the laws of the game. The fact that the laws of the game worked to Uruguay's advantage here doesn't matter, it harsh on Ghana but they play the game knowing what the rules are and they were applied. This to me also means it is not cheating like Henry against Ireland or Maradona against England, he didn't lure the ref in any way what so ever.

[chrisobee]

Harsh but totally true. We'd scream at Fonte if he let something like that opportunity go begging.

 

Once again, NO I wouldn't, how many more times ! Please don't assume we all have the same mentality, I have made my point of view very clear but also stated at post 34:

 

" No, I was just trying to make the point that most players would have handled the ball, not that it was right. It's still cheating and 100% no I would never want England/Saints to win that way.

However, to avoid any doubt I'm not trying to take the moral high ground, I can see both points of view but I only agree with one which is a reasonable stance to take!"

[Gorgiesaint]

Does anyone really think Saurez planned to cheat it was just a gut reaction decision. Anyway I am glad Ghana are out it puts to an end all the nauseating "the whole World/Africa/Crowd is behind Ghana" patronising ******** thats been spouted.

I also enjoyed the irony of a Pompey player currently famous for missing a penalty advising his teammates on how to take penalties ......

 

Don't under-estimate how much the Africans support each other. One of my friends is Nigerian - he knew they were rubbish so has spent most of his time supporting Ivory Chost & Ghana - ask him before the game last night and he is 'Ghanian in spirit'. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the Egyptians didn't support the Algerians but there is far more supporting your neighbour than we experience in Europe.

[St Landrew]

A foul is cheating, whether intentionally or unintentionally. The player [who was it, Squarez..?] who handballed, did it instinctively, in my opinion. The header was coming at him from very short range, and quickly too. His teammate tried to handball it, and missed, and he batted it away.

 

Yes, it isn't fair. Ghana should be in the next round. Perhaps, under such circumstances, a red card and a penalty isn't enough, as the handballed header was otherwise a certain goal. And in the 120th minute, as far as Ghana are concerned, a red card is not exactly a massive punishment, except to have one less Uruguayian penalty taker.

[chrisobee]

A foul is cheating, whether intentionally or unintentionally. The player [who was it, Squarez..?] who handballed, did it instinctively, in my opinion. The header was coming at him from very short range, and quickly too. His teammate tried to handball it, and missed, and he batted it away.

 

Yes, it isn't fair. Ghana should be in the next round. Perhaps, under such circumstances, a red card and a penalty isn't enough, as the handballed header was otherwise a certain goal. And in the 120th minute, as far as Ghana are concerned, a red card is not exactly a massive punishment, except to have one less Uruguayian penalty taker.

 

Close, it was Suarez !

[Saint Martini]

Suárez is being hailed as a hero in his home country but the incident has provoked condemnation in other parts of the world. His action is also contrary to Fifa's fair play code which states: "Winning is without value if victory has been achieved unfairly or dishonestly. Cheating is easy, but brings no pleasure."

 

Judging by Suarez' reaction I beg to differ...

[chrisobee]

Judging by Suarez' reaction I beg to differ...

 

Indeed !

[chrisobee]

In the unlikely event of Uruguay reaching the final it looks quite possible he'll miss that game too:

 

http://www.sportinglife.com/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=soccer/10/07/03/WORLDCUP_FIFA.html

[St Landrew]

Close, it was Suarez !

 

That was close. I had only heard the commentator say his name once or twice, so guessed the spelling. Of course, I could have looked up and down the thread, but then that's a dubious exercise itself.

[SuperMikey]

I don't see what the fuss is about. Suarez handballed, it IS a natural reaction to do that in that situation, and as punishment for it he got sent off and Ghana were given a penalty. Ghana missed the chance they had to go through, then they had the penalty shoot-out as well, which they also c*cked up. Much ado about nothing really. Suarez will probably be banned until the end of the tournament to satisfy the frothing masses (Alpine et al) and Uruguay will probably get knocked out by Holland in the next round anyway. I'll use the godawful phrase which every football fan hears from his wife/mother/sister whenever something provoking happens in football; "Oh, for goodness sakes! It's only a game!".

[syd_barrett_saint]

Once again, everyone seems to have missed the fact that the free kick given to Ghana that directly led to Suarez having to save on the line SHOULD NOT have been a free kick.

 

Also, Uruguay were denied a cast-iron penalty for an obvious foul on Abreu in the first half of extra time.

 

Justice was done, in my eyes. And if Suarez is banned for more than one game, it'll only be because he had the misfortune to do this against Ghana, in Africa.

[Ponty]

Where were you last night when we needed you?

[St Landrew]

I don't see what the fuss is about. Suarez handballed, it IS a natural reaction to do that in that situation, and as punishment for it he got sent off and Ghana were given a penalty. Ghana missed the chance they had to go through, then they had the penalty shoot-out as well, which they also c*cked up. Much ado about nothing really. Suarez will probably be banned until the end of the tournament to satisfy the frothing masses (Alpine et al) and Uruguay will probably get knocked out by Holland in the next round anyway. I'll use the godawful phrase which every football fan hears from his wife/mother/sister whenever something provoking happens in football; "Oh, for goodness sakes! It's only a game!".

 

Completely take your point, even the well worn phrase. And if we all stepped back a little and realised that we are watching something that other people are doing, rather than going out and actually doing something active ourselves, we might realise the level of importance it probably should have in our lives. There have been occasions during this World Cup, where I have been watching some obscure match and I've thought... wtf am I watching this for..? Not because it was rubbish, but because I had got myself caught in the net of television.

 

So it isn't like that, is it..? We get involved, while watching. We watch a team prosper, perhaps a little unfairly, over another, and our passive involvement becomes a little more vocal. Yes, justice may well have been seen to have been done, but Ghana are still out of the World Cup. Is that enough justice..? They were the victims of cheating, and they are still the victims.

 

But you're right. It's only a game.

[chrisobee]

That was close. I had only heard the commentator say his name once or twice, so guessed the spelling. Of course, I could have looked up and down the thread, but then that's a dubious exercise itself.

 

Not if you specifically look for my posts it isn't

[Lord Duckhunter]

Once again, everyone seems to have missed the fact that the free kick given to Ghana that directly led to Suarez having to save on the line SHOULD NOT have been a free kick.

 

Also, Uruguay were denied a cast-iron penalty for an obvious foul on Abreu in the first half of extra time.

 

Justice was done, in my eyes. And if Suarez is banned for more than one game, it'll only be because he had the misfortune to do this against Ghana, in Africa.

 

100% correct, I thought Ghana got more than their fair share of the decisions yesterday. I also couldn't believe the ITV panel, it was as if England had been beaten (I understand Marcel Desailly, but the others were gutted, I thought Brinkley had dumped Chiles again, he was so close to tears). If he gets more than a 1 match ban it will be a disgrace. You can't start changing punishments during a competition and you certainly can not increase them because of the time the offense was committed or because the peno was missed.

 

Must say there were two bits of bravery (in a sporting context) that you rarely see. For the guy to step up and take the first peno, takes mental toughness that not many people are capable of.And how big were the blokes ******** that ran up and dinked it over the Keeper?

 

I thought it was a great days football yesterday, the cynical Brazillians getting their just reward and a fantastic end to the other game. I hope that Holland go on to win the whole thing, to lose in '74 & '78 was heartbreaking with such great sides, but if they dont would love to see the fairytale of Uruguay do it.

[St Landrew]

Not if you specifically look for my posts it isn't

 

Yes, I know you are pretty hot on the spelling front. But I was just too sodding lazy.

[alpine_saint]

Pleased to read on the BBC that a FIFA disciplinary committee is to convene to consider banning Suaerz for two games, effectively ending his WC...

[Ponty]

I see enough arbitrary changes of established punishments (to keep someone else happy) by the FIA to last me a lifetime. I could do without it creeping into football too.

[alpine_saint]

I see enough arbitrary changes of established punishments (to keep someone else happy) by the FIA to last me a lifetime. I could do without it creeping into football too.

 

Why is it an arbitrary change in established punishment if there is a rule that bans can be extended for unsporting conduct ?

 

FIFA have to extend it; with the way Suarez and Uruguay are boasting, it sends out the wrong message if they have the power and dont do it.

[syd_barrett_saint]

Why is it an arbitrary change in established punishment if there is a rule that bans can be extended for unsporting conduct ?

 

FIFA have to extend it; with the way Suarez and Uruguay are boasting, it sends out the wrong message if they have the power and dont do it.

 

This would be a terrible decision, changing the rules just because it was against Ghana in Africa.

 

I would liken it to the Football League bending their own rules to make sure Saints got -10 points.

 

PS - It wasn't unsporting conduct. It was a split second, automatic reaction by Suarez. Any player would have done the same, and Suarez has already been punished enough with the red card, penalty and ban from the semis.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Why is it an arbitrary change in established punishment if there is a rule that bans can be extended for unsporting conduct ?

 

FIFA have to extend it; with the way Suarez and Uruguay are boasting, it sends out the wrong message if they have the power and dont do it.

 

Harry Kewell did the same thing and got a 1 match ban. Are we now deciding punishments on the basis of who it was against, and whether the peno was converted?

 

Had this been the other way round, there would have been none of this nonsense, it's only because it went against an African nation.

 

Surely every handball that prevents a goal would come under the banner of "unsporting behaviour", because by it's nature the hand ball has to be delebrate. What about a foul, is that not "unsporting behaviour", appealling for a corner, when you know it's a goal kick, where does it end.

 

If they couldn't do anything about Henry's handball or Maradona's it seems a bit strange that despite have clear and consistant rules in place, they're going to change them because an African couldn't score a Peno.

[Ponty]

The last two posters replied more eloquently than I could've mustered.

[chrisobee]

PS - It wasn't unsporting conduct. It was a split second, automatic reaction by Suarez. Any player would have done the same, and Suarez has already been punished enough with the red card, penalty and ban from the semis.

 

Shearer and Hansen said the same, I beg to differ and that also is a shameful thing to say. I don't pay my licence fee to listen to overpaid pundits condoning cheating and that is absolutely what it was. When I've seen a 13/14 year old schoolboy standing on the line in the same situation and NOT handle the ball and in reply to why he didn't respond " Because it would have been cheating " then my mind boggles at what seems to have become acceptable not only in football but in most walks of life. Learn from your elders ? Clearly not.

[chrisobee]

The last two posters replied more eloquently than I could've mustered.

 

I believe you:D

[syd_barrett_saint]

Shearer and Hansen said the same, I beg to differ and that also is a shameful thing to say. I don't pay my licence fee to listen to overpaid pundits condoning cheating and that is absolutely what it was. When I've seen a 13/14 year old schoolboy standing on the line in the same situation and NOT handle the ball and in reply to why he didn't respond " Because it would have been cheating " then my mind boggles at what seems to have become acceptable not only in football but in most walks of life. Learn from your elders ? Clearly not.

 

Right... he was 13/14 year old schoolboy, NOT a football player, then.

 

I would have done the same as Suarez, probably without thinking, and ALMOST any football player in the world would do the same.

 

It was a handball, for which a penalty, red card and ban was given. End of story. Where is the outrage over Harry Kewell's exact same offence in this WC???

[Ponty]

I believe you:D

 

Yeah, I thought, as I pressed submit, that it wasn't quite the message I intended it to be but it did the job.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Jack Charlton gave away a peno after a delebrate handball in the 1966 semi final, so before people get too carried away with attacking "cheating South Americans", we should remember that.

 

Jack's punishment? A pen, not even a booking, see those were the rules at the time. They were applied consistantly and were the same whether Eusebio scored from the spot or missed.

[chrisobee]

Right... he was 13/14 year old schoolboy, NOT a football player, then.

 

I would have done the same as Suarez, probably without thinking, and ALMOST any football player in the world would do the same.

 

It was a handball, for which a penalty, red card and ban was given. End of story. Where is the outrage over Harry Kewell's exact same offence in this WC???

 

What an absurd argument, a 13 year old is perfectly able to be a football player which he was. As I have stated now about 20 times no fair minded player would handle the ball. We are not discussing Harry Kewell ( I didn't see it anyway) but based on your comments my reaction would be exactly the same.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Shearer and Hansen said the same, I beg to differ and that also is a shameful thing to say. I don't pay my licence fee to listen to overpaid pundits condoning cheating and that is absolutely what it was. When I've seen a 13/14 year old schoolboy standing on the line in the same situation and NOT handle the ball and in reply to why he didn't respond " Because it would have been cheating " then my mind boggles at what seems to have become acceptable not only in football but in most walks of life. Learn from your elders ? Clearly not.

 

What do you think of Jack Charlton's delebrate hand ball in '66.

[chrisobee]

What do you think of Jack Charlton's delebrate hand ball in '66.

 

Without seeing it I'd not be in a position to comment. Link anyone ?