A world of difference..

[alpine_saint]

If I wanted to take my family (wife, 2x kids) to see Saints play, I'd have to pay £56 to sit at the half-way line. I'd also have trouble finding a parking spot.

 

The match I went to this afternoon, an Austrian Bundesliga match, which was fast, exciting, full of f**k-ups and clueless attacking (just like the CCC), would have cost my entire family £16 in TOTAL, because women and children under 16 are FREE. In addition, a whole field next to the Woerther See Stadium (used in EURO 2008 for group games involving Germany, Poland and Croatia) was given over to FREE car parking. I was also allowed to take beer into the stand, and loads of blokes were smoking around me.

 

Yet the whole Austrian Bundesliga gets by on a financial shoestring. Loads of clubs have gone bust in the last 5 years.

 

Maybe that's the attraction of it. A level (if broke) playing field..

[ooh it's a corner]

If I wanted to take my family (wife, 2x kids) to see Saints play, I'd have to pay £56 to sit at the half-way line. I'd also have trouble finding a parking spot.

 

The match I went to this afternoon, an Austrian Bundesliga match, which was fast, exciting, full of f**k-ups and clueless attacking (just like the CCC), would have cost my entire family £16 in TOTAL, because women and children under 16 are FREE. In addition, a whole field next to the Woerther See Stadium (used in EURO 2008 for group games involving Germany, Poland and Croatia) was given over to FREE car parking. I was also allowed to take beer into the stand, and loads of blokes were smoking around me.

 

Yet the whole Austrian Bundesliga gets by on a financial shoestring. Loads of clubs have gone bust in the last 5 years.

 

Maybe that's the attraction of it. A level (if broke) playing field..

 

If i wanted to take my wife and family to see an Austrian bundesliga match it would cost me a fortune. £10 taxi to Soton airport, flight into somewhere close at about £200 each, plus taxi from the airpot plus match tickets.

 

Jeez we're talking more than a grand all in.

 

Couple that with the potential to be sitting near a guy who keeps his wife and family in a lock up in the basement and all in all, I would sooner go to St Mary's.........

 

(without the wife)

 

:-)

[Long Shot]

I hate to think what would this forum be like without the resident comedians

[swannymere]

I hate to think what would this forum be like without the resident comedians

 

Funny?

[Chorlton]

Good grief. i like Alpne and a lot of what he says, and you always need a different opinion on tbings, but it is hard to see the relevance here. You can get in to watrch Barca (as a member) for about £12, bt market forces dictate our price (though it is overpriced, and as a St holder I have no problem with reduced prices to get more people in(

[Kingsland Codger]

Women are allowed in free? This is discrimination against half the population and must fall foul of at least one European regulation.

[Torrent Of Abuse]

If I wanted to take my family (wife, 2x kids) to see Saints play, I'd have to pay £56 to sit at the half-way line. I'd also have trouble finding a parking spot.

 

The match I went to this afternoon, an Austrian Bundesliga match, which was fast, exciting, full of f**k-ups and clueless attacking (just like the CCC), would have cost my entire family £16 in TOTAL, because women and children under 16 are FREE. In addition, a whole field next to the Woerther See Stadium (used in EURO 2008 for group games involving Germany, Poland and Croatia) was given over to FREE car parking. I was also allowed to take beer into the stand, and loads of blokes were smoking around me.

 

Yet the whole Austrian Bundesliga gets by on a financial shoestring. Loads of clubs have gone bust in the last 5 years.

 

Maybe that's the attraction of it. A level (if broke) playing field..

 

Erm. What are you reasoning for - the level playing field or the cheap match day experience?

 

Because right now the only way we'd get cheap matches would be by being bought out by a rich owner who could afford to reduce the prices regardless of the costs of running the club, or by reducing the cost of running the club (possibly by selling all the first team players and bringing in youngsters - something which you've been complaining about for months). As we've seen in the last few years, there doesn't seem to be a millionaire buyer anywhere, so that leaves the cheaper 'Plan B'.

 

To get a level playing field, we'd either have to all be lucky enough to be bought out by rich, philanthropic billionaires or we'd all have to be playing teams made of youngsters. Or we'd have to travel back in time to the 1980s, probably in a souped-up DeLorean car/time-machine.

[suewhistle]

Women are allowed in free? This is discrimination against half the population and must fall foul of at least one European regulation.

 

Patronising as well, as if us girlies don't really like footie and have to be persuaded somehow, or perhaps don't have our own money. Sod it, I drove back from the UK on Tuesday and went to the first of three footie training sessions this week.

[sadoldgit]

As you have told us that this club is finished Alpine and you don't go and watch Saints play anyway, what exactly is your problem?

 

Just think of the thousands of pounds you have saved over the years not going to Saints matches.

[alpine_saint]

As you have told us that this club is finished Alpine and you don't go and watch Saints play anyway, what exactly is your problem?

 

Just think of the thousands of pounds you have saved over the years not going to Saints matches.

 

Only one post to go.....

[alpine_saint]

Patronising as well, as if us girlies don't really like footie and have to be persuaded somehow, or perhaps don't have our own money. Sod it, I drove back from the UK on Tuesday and went to the first of three footie training sessions this week.

 

You're moaning about free entry to football matches ? Bizarre...:rolleyes:

[Bon Call Night]

If I wanted to take my family (wife, 2x kids) to see Saints play, I'd have to pay £56 to sit at the half-way line. I'd also have trouble finding a parking spot.

 

The match I went to this afternoon, an Austrian Bundesliga match, which was fast, exciting, full of f**k-ups and clueless attacking (just like the CCC), would have cost my entire family £16 in TOTAL, because women and children under 16 are FREE. In addition, a whole field next to the Woerther See Stadium (used in EURO 2008 for group games involving Germany, Poland and Croatia) was given over to FREE car parking. I was also allowed to take beer into the stand, and loads of blokes were smoking around me.

 

Yet the whole Austrian Bundesliga gets by on a financial shoestring. Loads of clubs have gone bust in the last 5 years.

 

Maybe that's the attraction of it. A level (if broke) playing field..

 

 

Good does that mean you are going to join one of their fans forums and go and support them now instead of complaining about the price of bread in this country?

[TopGun]

I notice one of their players topped himself three months ago. Nowt to do with Alps joining the support, I'm sure!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SK_Austria_K%C3%A4rnten

[OldNick]

I notice one of their players topped himself three months ago. Nowt to do with Alps joining the support, I'm sure!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SK_Austria_K%C3%A4rnten

now now Topgun....but

[OldNick]

Alps whatr are the crowds levels even though the cost is low?

[equalizer]

Alps whatr are the crowds levels even though the cost is low?

 

Just Jozef Fritzl and his immediate family. About the 2,000 mark I'd guess!

 

Seriously though the reason its so cheap is they don't have ageing ex Premiership "Stars" eg Robbie Savage, so they don't have high wage bills that filters down the fans.

Edited 28 September, 2008 by equalizer

[.comsaint]

Women are allowed in free? This is discrimination against half the population and must fall foul of at least one European regulation.

 

Indeed. You would never ever get away with that in the UK for reasons which are obvious.

[INFLUENCED.COM]

Yet the whole Austrian Bundesliga gets by on a financial shoestring. Loads of clubs have gone bust in the last 5 years.

 

Maybe that's the attraction of it. A level (if broke) playing field..

 

Fail to understand quite why you are endorseing this model ?? It clearly does not "get by"

[lordswoodsaints]

If I wanted to take my family (wife, 2x kids) to see Saints play, I'd have to pay £56 to sit at the half-way line. I'd also have trouble finding a parking spot.

 

The match I went to this afternoon, an Austrian Bundesliga match, which was fast, exciting, full of f**k-ups and clueless attacking (just like the CCC), would have cost my entire family £16 in TOTAL, because women and children under 16 are FREE. In addition, a whole field next to the Woerther See Stadium (used in EURO 2008 for group games involving Germany, Poland and Croatia) was given over to FREE car parking. I was also allowed to take beer into the stand, and loads of blokes were smoking around me.

 

Yet the whole Austrian Bundesliga gets by on a financial shoestring. Loads of clubs have gone bust in the last 5 years.

 

Maybe that's the attraction of it. A level (if broke) playing field..

 

tbh i would price the womens tickets at £100 to try and deter them from going.apart from that the rest sounds good to me.

[Nexstar]

So at st.marys the best nion-executive tickets you can get are on the halfway line right, and you said it would cost £56 for 4 of you. Well if you were a QPR fan 2 adults and 2 U-16's would cost you £150 per match so don't complain

 

But I do see your point, I guess english football is just rated more highly.

[Professor]

If I wanted......... /QUOTE]

First, sincere thanks to Alpine, and I really mean that folks, for starting an interesting and amusing thread. Living in Sussex these days, I could go to a Sussex County League game to watch fast and exciting football. It would cost me a couple of quid, but parking is free. But I wouldn't see quality professional players, with a smattering of internationals. Lower league football is great, a lot of us on here have played in it, but ultimately you get what you pay for. If we start getting resuolts as well, we'll all think its worth it, but as fans we do tend to judge how good the afternoon was by the result!

 

By the way Alpine, there is easy parking for about £3 below Terminus Terrace, near the Jester pub!

[saintwarwick]

If I wanted to take my family (wife, 2x kids) to see Saints play, I'd have to pay £56 to sit at the half-way line. I'd also have trouble finding a parking spot.

 

The match I went to this afternoon, an Austrian Bundesliga match, which was fast, exciting, full of f**k-ups and clueless attacking (just like the CCC), would have cost my entire family £16 in TOTAL, because women and children under 16 are FREE. In addition, a whole field next to the Woerther See Stadium (used in EURO 2008 for group games involving Germany, Poland and Croatia) was given over to FREE car parking. I was also allowed to take beer into the stand, and loads of blokes were smoking around me.

 

Yet the whole Austrian Bundesliga gets by on a financial shoestring. Loads of clubs have gone bust in the last 5 years.

 

Maybe that's the attraction of it. A level (if broke) playing field..

 

Did you witness total football.

[thelamprey]

"bt market forces dictate our price "

 

Lol hahahahaha lol market 'forces' you talk as if they were real, market forces, I ask you

You'll be saying set the wealth creators free next, how very flat earth

[Wilko]

For once I agree with the miserable bastard

[dubai_phil]

We can watch the UAE Premier League down here for about 5 quid, or even the Asian Champions League for about the same featuring World Cup and International stars and managers

 

 

We don't because it isn't OUR football

 

get the concept Alps, but it is never really the same and until "The Revolution" comes these ideas and dreams are written up everyday in every fan blog and just about every leading newspaper.

 

Until some big names go, things won't change

[itchen]

I have Alpine on ignore as it makes coming on here more fun but I can see what he's saying because people keep quoting him.

 

But he's right. SMS is overpriced. Unfortunately so is every other Championship ground.

And the Premiership is even worse. I see I could have got to watch Pompey today if I'd been willing to shell out £38 (yes £38!).

 

I don't see the answer unless the credit crunch starts hitting footballers in the pocket the same as the rest of us.

 

I'm off to the Mayflower in a couple of weeks. My tickets cost £28 each so that's comparable to St Mary's. There are probably about as many people on the stage and behind the scenes at the theatre as there are on the pitch at SMS. The difference is that the Mayflower seats only 2300 people but the shows do run 6 nights a week.

 

I'm not sure the point I'm making except that I'm fairly sure I will have an excellent couple of hours for my money at the theatre whereas that cannot always be guaranteed at a football match. And that actors, directors, stage hands and the like work a lot harder and more often for a lot less money.

 

Am I making sense - I've had a couple of rather nice glasses of wine? I don't think so but it's about as relevant as comparing our over-inflated Championship with the Austrian cut-price experience

[brmbrm]

Good grief. i like Alpne and a lot of what he says, and you always need a different opinion on tbings, but it is hard to see the relevance here. You can get in to watrch Barca (as a member) for about £12, bt market forces dictate our price (though it is overpriced, and as a St holder I have no problem with reduced prices to get more people in(

 

So market forces mean that we get crowds of 14k in a 32k capacity stadium? Doesn't this tell you ANYTHING?????

 

it tells me that £26 or so per head is overpriced for the sort of crap we get to see.

[Chorlton]

So market forces mean that we get crowds of 14k in a 32k capacity stadium? Doesn't this tell you ANYTHING?????

 

it tells me that £26 or so per head is overpriced for the sort of crap we get to see.

 

Market Forces was the wrong phrase to use, but I do also say that I find it overpriced and would be happy if prices were lowered. Our prices aren't too bad compared with other clubs though are they? I think I paid about £23 (?)to stand at cardiff , and Palace & QPR are both more than us. I could look up all the prices but I can't be arsed. So yes, we are overpriced but we are not alone. I would be happy if we were to follow the likes of Bradford and reduce prices but I don't think it will happen. I am a season ticket holder and realise I will lose out if the prices are reduced, but TBH, the reason I have a season ticket is I can afford to pay for it in a lump sum. If I had to find money for 3 hiome games in a month (plus the on-costs), then I would struggle.

[saint_bert]

If I wanted to take my family (wife, 2x kids) to see Saints play, I'd have to pay £56 to sit at the half-way line. I'd also have trouble finding a parking spot.

 

The match I went to this afternoon, an Austrian Bundesliga match, which was fast, exciting, full of f**k-ups and clueless attacking (just like the CCC), would have cost my entire family £16 in TOTAL, because women and children under 16 are FREE. In addition, a whole field next to the Woerther See Stadium (used in EURO 2008 for group games involving Germany, Poland and Croatia) was given over to FREE car parking. I was also allowed to take beer into the stand, and loads of blokes were smoking around me.

 

Yet the whole Austrian Bundesliga gets by on a financial shoestring. Loads of clubs have gone bust in the last 5 years.

 

Maybe that's the attraction of it. A level (if broke) playing field..

 

I appreciate where your coming from, but there are a couple of problems i have with this

 

1)You have to think of the standard of football. Even though you say the football is similar to the CCC i sincerley doubt it probably is on a consistant basis.

 

2)Its just not Saints. I cant get excited watching any other team. Im a fan of football and take a strong intrest but even if you offered me a ticket at Old Trafford for 12 quid I wouldnt be excited. I would go but it wouldnt bother me either way with regards result

[alpine_saint]

I appreciate where your coming from, but there are a couple of problems i have with this

 

1)You have to think of the standard of football. Even though you say the football is similar to the CCC i sincerley doubt it probably is on a consistant basis.

 

2)Its just not Saints. I cant get excited watching any other team. Im a fan of football and take a strong intrest but even if you offered me a ticket at Old Trafford for 12 quid I wouldnt be excited. I would go but it wouldnt bother me either way with regards result

 

These are a couple of interesting points to discuss.

 

I vehemently disagree with the conclusion you have drawn in 1). I have been to Saints matches since we went down, and now I have been to an Austrian Bundesliga match. The football is very similar - fast to the point of chaotic, physical, opportunistic, hopeful, somewhat lacking in real skill but making up for it with enthusiasm. I feel it is a little arrogant to assume that the quality must be better "because its England"

 

I agree with 2). I did not have the same buzz watching that game as when I watch Saints, my overall feeling was one of polite interest but somehow detached from the experience. On the other hand, it made me more objective. That's whay these comments "go an support another team" if you dare to criticise SFC are so tediously stupid.

 

I am certain the ticket cost/value-for money/overall experience subject is not just an SFC issue, but also a England-wide issue, but seeing as I am only concerned with SFC, I took it as the example.

[Ponty]

I'm not sure why you'd expect it to be any different, and perhaps you don't, this is not called "Rip-off Britain" for nothing. We pay more for everything else, I don't see why football should be excluded.

[alpine_saint]

I'm not sure why you'd expect it to be any different, and perhaps you don't, this is not called "Rip-off Britain" for nothing. We pay more for everything else, I don't see why football should be excluded.

 

Hmm, that's not completely true, though. Just from recent experiences, I can tell you the following items are cheaper in the UK:

 

Electronic goods (TVs, etc.)

Childrens glasses (NHS-equivalent voucher is less and the glasses more expensive here)

Labour cost for any sort of building work

Car insurance (yes, really)

 

But back to football, since we are swinging badly off-topic; I think English football is like the housing market - its got too big for its boots, over-expensive, quality has slipped, and a massive correction is well overdue.

[alpine_saint]

Alps whatr are the crowds levels even though the cost is low?

 

Missed this post.

 

The attendance (Woerther See stadium capacity is ca. 30,000) was about 15,500, of which only about 150 were from Vienna. So the attendance is rougly comparable to SFC/SMS.

 

However, I would add that football is not a national obsession here in Austria, that sort of fervour is saved for winter sports, and this is a pretty rural area. So I think the turn out compares favourably with SFC.

[Frank's cousin]

I guess we want it both ways - the cheap pricing and continental 'cost model' (which is why players agents encourage their players to the play in the UK - the cash cow the game has become whilst they laugh all the way to the bank in Geneva at the fools we are - also creating opportunities for local players to grow up and learn the game in their local leagues and we wonder why, despite the French league being poor, they won a world cup only 8 year ago,and some of the former Eastern European teams are comming on strong) but with the so called best league in the World in which players are payed beyond the means of 90% clubs... amodel which sees us as well as many others have to make that choice betwen running a financial tightrope to try and get promoted and keep fans off their backs risking going bust, or take a prudent view, stay lower table, but solvent but have teh fans screeming ' no ambition'

 

I think its time many of us accepted the reality that without the pot of gold of some wealthy fool happy to fund the losses, clubs are shafted if they take too many risks. Yes some wiley manager might be able to get a club out of the CCC on a shoestring - usually filling a squad with big lads at the back and front and muscling out the 'footballing' sides, but they get found out very quickly when promoted - unless there is substantial investment... or even with it get relegated but now with a greater wage burden...

 

Alps makes a good point about the cost of taking a family to a game, but that is now an inevitable effect of the the premier league taking the greenback from Sky - yes it has seen a massive investmnet in teh ifrastructure, better stadiums, better facilities for supporters etc, but the knockon effect of inflated wages has fillterd down the leagues meaning that to mount a promotion challenge, the calibre of players required is beyond the means of any club whose losses are not covered by a rich benefactor.

 

In addition, The only challenge to the filling of grounds in the prem is not necessarily the cost as there are still plenty of corporates for whom football is a darn sight cheaper than Wimbledon or Royal Ascot, but whether its considered entertaining as teh gaps grow bigger between the elite and the also rans. Where will the game be in 10 years time? I think its safe to assume that the WSL 'World Soccer League' - will suck in the global TV rights with Manchester Devils, Barcelona Catalans or the Dubai hubcapsteelers selling their own rights with FIFA, UEFA and the FA capitulating as normal on the understaning that these clubs will release players (under 23 and having made less than 2 first team appearances, all fees wages and medical costs and insurance paid) for the FIFA weekend World trophy over a summer weekend for the glory of the game - the real world champions being naturally teh inners of the WSL.... and the domestic game being but a feeder/ US collegiate style annual 'draft' for the WSL - clubs getting a standard 50000 Euro per player drafted.... Sounds fanciful? I have seen it in my Crystal Ball....

[Victor]

It's economics - the laws of supply and demand; price raised, fewer seats sold but income remains the same.

 

Rupert does not like football fans so he raises the price until he gets the fewest supporters but has just enough money to finance his dream of total football.

 

I thought there was a flaw in this arguement in that total football would bring the crowds back, but I have to admit (though it hurts to say so) that Rupert's scheme to keep football fans away from his stadium appears to be working.

[TopGun]

Missed this post.

 

The attendance (Woerther See stadium capacity is ca. 30,000) was about 15,500, of which only about 150 were from Vienna. So the attendance is rougly comparable to SFC/SMS.

 

However, I would add that football is not a national obsession here in Austria, that sort of fervour is saved for winter sports, and this is a pretty rural area. So I think the turn out compares favourably with SFC.

 

And voting for extreme right wing parties. Don't forget that Alps!

[JohnnyFartPants]

If i wanted to take my wife and family to see an Austrian bundesliga match it would cost me a fortune. £10 taxi to Soton airport, flight into somewhere close at about £200 each, plus taxi from the airpot plus match tickets.

 

Jeez we're talking more than a grand all in.

 

Couple that with the potential to be sitting near a guy who keeps his wife and family in a lock up in the basement and all in all, I would sooner go to St Mary's.........

 

(without the wife)

 

:-)

 

That really made me laugh. Brilliant.

[OldNick]

Missed this post.

 

The attendance (Woerther See stadium capacity is ca. 30,000) was about 15,500, of which only about 150 were from Vienna. So the attendance is rougly comparable to SFC/SMS.

 

However, I would add that football is not a national obsession here in Austria, that sort of fervour is saved for winter sports, and this is a pretty rural area. So I think the turn out compares favourably with SFC.

I was just interested how the attendance was with all those perks.Nothing more, is assume the population would be smaller as well in that area.

[JohnnyFartPants]

Patronising as well, as if us girlies don't really like footie and have to be persuaded somehow, or perhaps don't have our own money. Sod it, I drove back from the UK on Tuesday and went to the first of three footie training sessions this week.

 

Did JP say you were up for selection for the mid week game?

[alpine_saint]

And voting for extreme right wing parties. Don't forget that Alps!

 

I dont get a vote, and the missus tried to vote tactically against the Nazis by voting Green, only their vote collapsed so badly elsewhere it didnt work.

[Saint Martini]

Did you witness total football.

 

If he'd gone to watch FC Red Bull Salzburg he could have seen total football being played under the guidance of Co Adriaanse. One of the managers Rupert would have wanted if we'd have had some money and in my opinion the best Dutch total football manager there is.

[alpine_saint]

The Head Trainer of Austria Kaernten is also Dutch - goes by the name of Frank Schinkels.

 

So maybe I did see an Austrian bastardisation of Total Football...

[Saint Martini]

He was born Dutch but has actaully played for the Austrian national football team (and scored against Holland once). I'm not sure about his managerial style but I doubt if he's a typical Dutch manager. I'd say he's been properly Austrianized .