Jonnyboy Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 I have been stupid enough to get caught speeding for the fourth time. From what I read this means I reach 12 points and get a 6 month ban. This will likely mean i lose my job. Anyone know much about this? Is it worth appealing for a reduction in ban length? Anyone know a good lawyer? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 I have been stupid enough to get caught speeding for the fourth time. From what I read this means I reach 12 points and get a 6 month ban. This will likely mean i lose my job. Anyone know much about this? Is it worth appealing for a reduction in ban length? Anyone know a good lawyer? Thanks Why should you be allowed to appeal? You knew you were speeding, and it's not like you've been given any chances is it? Get caught once or twice maybe, but having not learnt your lesson after three times is just retarded. Perhaps you should have changed your driving habits if your job meant so much to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dronskisaint Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 Yes If you can prove you need your licence for your job then it will be considered by the magistrates when adjudicating. Expect a large fine & to drive very carefully until the points fall off at the end of three years...the alternative is to plead for a short ban which will allow you to clear the points, hopefully keep your job while you take the ban as holiday...paid &/or unpaid. The other downside (& I speak as an employer of a number of drivers) is that your company insurer may not cover a driver with 12 points so it's as well to check first with them. Good luck - I used to drive 80-90,000mls a year + & however diligent you might intend to be there are so many cameras etc around that it statistically increases the chances over a 'Social, domestic & pleasure' driver of being caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 I have been stupid enough to get caught speeding for the fourth time. From what I read this means I reach 12 points and get a 6 month ban. This will likely mean i lose my job. Anyone know much about this? Is it worth appealing for a reduction in ban length? Anyone know a good lawyer? Thanks The only chance you've got is to argue that a ban would cause undue and unreasonable hardship for people who depend on you - eg children or dependent elderly / disabled relatives - or maybe if you run a company that employs staff. If you simply claim a ban will cause hardship for you the court will rightly say 'tough'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 29 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 29 June, 2010 Yes If you can prove you need your licence for your job then it will be considered by the magistrates when adjudicating. Expect a large fine & to drive very carefully until the points fall off at the end of three years...the alternative is to plead for a short ban which will allow you to clear the points, hopefully keep your job while you take the ban as holiday...paid &/or unpaid. The other downside (& I speak as an employer of a number of drivers) is that your company insurer may not cover a driver with 12 points so it's as well to check first with them. Good luck - I used to drive 80-90,000mls a year + & however diligent you might intend to be there are so many cameras etc around that it statistically increases the chances over a 'Social, domestic & pleasure' driver of being caught. Thanks for that, yes as a delivery driver it is very hard. I got one for a red light in 2008 which I didnt even notice. Then ive had 3 in quick succession (February, and 2 in April, either side of the birth of my son). The fourth was snapped before i even received the letter informing me about the 3rd so I had no chance to "change my habits." I think i might have a case on a technicality there. The roads were pathetic - country road with no pavement, streetlights or houses, everyone does 50 on them (near Belbins industrial estate Romsey) yet becasue rich people live down long driveways these have been designated a 30. How much is a lawyer likely to cost? Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenevaSaint Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 You might be fortunate with the court, had a mate who escaped a ban for doing 100 in a 60 as it would impact his daughter as she lived 60 miles away. Personally I think it sucks. Did you get caught speeding in works van or your own car? You could say someone was driving although I don't condone this illegal move! Finally, in future, get a satnav with the speed camera locations loaded. Would solve the problems of getting snapped where you weren't aware of cameras being present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 29 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 29 June, 2010 You might be fortunate with the court, had a mate who escaped a ban for doing 100 in a 60 as it would impact his daughter as she lived 60 miles away. Personally I think it sucks. Did you get caught speeding in works van or your own car? You could say someone was driving although I don't condone this illegal move! Finally, in future, get a satnav with the speed camera locations loaded. Would solve the problems of getting snapped where you weren't aware of cameras being present. Sounds like your mate was hugely lucky. My boss plays a tight wicket (?) and my name is already down on the form at Hampshire Speed Safety HQ The 3 cameras were all mobile bastards on bikes hidden in bushes, I dont think a Sat Nav helps here. Finally - I find it very stupid I dont get offered a Speed Awareness course as I was going too fast for it! Surely the whole point of these things is to educate to prevent reoffending? Oh yeah I forgot its actually about raising revenue for PC Plod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimond Geezer Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 Thanks for that, yes as a delivery driver it is very hard. I got one for a red light in 2008 which I didnt even notice. Then ive had 3 in quick succession (February, and 2 in April, either side of the birth of my son). The fourth was snapped before i even received the letter informing me about the 3rd so I had no chance to "change my habits." I think i might have a case on a technicality there. The roads were pathetic - country road with no pavement, streetlights or houses, everyone does 50 on them (near Belbins industrial estate Romsey) yet becasue rich people live down long driveways these have been designated a 30. How much is a lawyer likely to cost? Thanks again Glad I wasn't coming the other way, maybe you should concentrate more, that way you'd have seen the red light & 30mph signs all through Belbins. I've managed to drive twice a day for 2 years at the correct speed. FYI the mobiles get down by Hunts Farm sports ground, by the burger van lay-by, when you get your licence back, bear this bit in mind as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 29 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 29 June, 2010 Glad I wasn't coming the other way, maybe you should concentrate more, that way you'd have seen the red light & 30mph signs all through Belbins. I've managed to drive twice a day for 2 years at the correct speed. FYI the mobiles get down by Hunts Farm sports ground, by the burger van lay-by, when you get your licence back, bear this bit in mind as well. i know its a 30 there but doing 41 there is hugely safe im afraid, there are plenty of 40s around where kids are walking along pavements its only cos its a posh street the red light if it was me was just changing, im pretty sure i took a fall for my boss there anyway, i didnt argue as my license was clean at the time ive driven 10 years now in 2 months ive been whacked three times. yes im stupid but im also unlucky, the fact my newborn was in an incubator the weeks before may have had something to do with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 i know its a 30 there but doing 41 there is hugely safe im afraid, there are plenty of 40s around where kids are walking along pavements its only cos its a posh street the red light if it was me was just changing, im pretty sure i took a fall for my boss there anyway, i didnt argue as my license was clean at the time ive driven 10 years now in 2 months ive been whacked three times. yes im stupid but im also unlucky, the fact my newborn was in an incubator the weeks before may have had something to do with it That's a hugely ignorant comment by the way; there's enough adverts and information out there to recognise the differences between an accident at 30 and 40 mph. But then you could always try that approach with the judge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 29 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 29 June, 2010 That's a hugely ignorant comment by the way; there's enough adverts and information out there to recognise the differences between an accident at 30 and 40 mph. But then you could always try that approach with the judge So all roads should be 30 then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets B Avenue Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 Just as well you wern't shaking a fence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimond Geezer Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 i know its a 30 there but doing 41 there is hugely safe im afraid, there are plenty of 40s around where kids are walking along pavements its only cos its a posh street Yes it may be safe to do 41 there, but unfortunately it says 30, the reasons behind the imposed limit are irrelevant, you cannot choose which laws to obey & which ones to ignore. the red light if it was me was just changing, im pretty sure i took a fall for my boss there anyway, i didnt argue as my license was clean at the time If it wasn't you, you've only got yourself to blame for taking the wrap for someone else. If it was you you've still only got yourself to blame, you get an amber warning giving sufficient time to slow - assuming you're not speeding. ive driven 10 years now in 2 months ive been whacked three times. yes im stupid but im also unlucky, the fact my newborn was in an incubator the weeks before may have had something to do with it I hope all is well with the little'un, & his/her birth changes your driving habits. I used to drive like a tw*t 'till my son was born. I was lucky I was only caught once. When I took the sprog home something told me I had to change, I didn't want my nipper to grow up without a dad, or knock over some other kiddy. Sorry if this sounds harsh, and I don't mean to come across all self-righteous but like it or loathe it speed limits are there for a reason, and for the sake of the little'un you should improve your driving skills & awareness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 29 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 29 June, 2010 Well its all fair do's and a fair cop etc Back to the original question, anyone recommend a decent lawyer? How much is it likely to cost or can you get legal aid? -pls dont start on me being a bludging scrote either thank you ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 So all roads should be 30 then? What a ridiculous question. But if you want to take that much of a simplistic approach, here's a couple of bullet points for you. About 2/3 of accidents in which people are killed or seriously injured happen on roads where the speed limit is 30mph or less. At 35mph you are twice as likely to kill someone as you are at 30mph. Speed limits are there for a good reason and they're set by a group of people who, quite frankly, have a much better idea of road safety than most drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 Well its all fair do's and a fair cop etc Back to the original question, anyone recommend a decent lawyer? How much is it likely to cost or can you get legal aid? -pls dont start on me being a bludging scrote either thank you ;-) The lawyer Colin Montgomerie used is **** hot. Not sure you could afford him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 I had a friend who used Nick Freeman, cos his job was in danger. Basically I think that he got a £5k bill and was told that there was no hope for him and he lost his licence. Have you tried pepipoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 I have some sympathy for you. These mobile camera units are only positioned where they catch the biggest number of 'speeders'. Most sensible drivers go at a speed which reflects the prevailing road conditions and environment, we dont go counting the distance between street lights. I defy anyone to tell me that the 30mph limit at the top of the dual carriageway on Bitterne hill is there for safety reasons. There's sometimes a mobile unit near me on Baddesley Road which was a 40 limit for over 30 years after we moved in. Then they made in a 30 limit, took away all the repeater signs and set up a cash register on the grass verge. If that road was deemed safe at 40 for over 30 years, why is it not safe now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 Speed limits are there for a good reason and they're set by a group of people who, quite frankly, have a much better idea of road safety than most drivers. Most of our local ones are set by Councillors who pester the 'experts'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 Most of our local ones are set by Councillors who pester the 'experts'. Not according to the Speed Awareness coure I took last year. There has to be a minimum number (I can't recall how many) of major accidents before a fixed speed camera can be installed. The mobile ones, however, are much less rigid in the requirements. I have to say, the course is well worth anyone's time to do. I did it because I was caught doing 36 in a 30 zone, which prior to the course I would (and did) find utterly ridiculous. However, I was definitely convinced by what they had to say, and it really makes you take a really good look at yourself on the roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 I have some sympathy for you. . . If that road was deemed safe at 40 for over 30 years, why is it not safe now? I'd hazard a guess that driving habits have changed over those 30 years and, possibly, not for the better. More traffic on the road, a change of environment around the road, more residential housing? The road may have been down classified by the Highways Agency? All possible contributory factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 Not according to the Speed Awareness coure I took last year. There has to be a minimum number (I can't recall how many) of major accidents before a fixed speed camera can be installed. The mobile ones, however, are much less rigid in the requirements. Ok, I was referring to the speed limits and not the cameras. Of course, once a camera has been installed the number of serious accidents falls and then 'they' will argue that this is because of the camera whereas it is often just 'regression to the mean'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 I'd hazard a guess that driving habits have changed over those 30 years and, possibly, not for the better. More traffic on the road, a change of environment around the road, more residential housing? The road may have been down classified by the Highways Agency? All possible contributory factors. Nope, nope of those apply. If anything the road has been improved with a separate footbridge for cyclists and pedestrians over the railway line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 Nope, nope of those apply. If anything the road has been improved with a separate footbridge for cyclists and pedestrians over the railway line. Not even driving habits? I find that difficult to believe. I learned to drive at a comparitively late stage in my life (1991) but I have noticed that in 19 years the traffic has become heavier and people's attitudes have generally worsened! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 29 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 29 June, 2010 I had a friend who used Nick Freeman, cos his job was in danger. Basically I think that he got a £5k bill and was told that there was no hope for him and he lost his licence. Have you tried pepipoo.com oh yeah , is that the one the Daily Mail loves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 (edited) You could try this site http://www.drivingban.co.uk/ and this one http://www.motorlawyers.co.uk/ Edited 29 June, 2010 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 29 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 29 June, 2010 Not according to the Speed Awareness coure I took last year. There has to be a minimum number (I can't recall how many) of major accidents before a fixed speed camera can be installed. The mobile ones, however, are much less rigid in the requirements. I have to say, the course is well worth anyone's time to do. I did it because I was caught doing 36 in a 30 zone, which prior to the course I would (and did) find utterly ridiculous. However, I was definitely convinced by what they had to say, and it really makes you take a really good look at yourself on the roads. And yet I doing 41 do not qualify and so dont get a little bit of re-education Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 oh yeah , is that the one the Daily Mail loves? Must make a confession here. I am a naughty boy and don't read the Daily Mail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 You probably dont qualify because you arent a first time offender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 29 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 29 June, 2010 You could try this site http://www.drivingban.co.uk/ and this one http://www.motorlawyers.co.uk/ that looks like a good one, cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjwills Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 Not according to the Speed Awareness coure I took last year. There has to be a minimum number (I can't recall how many) of major accidents before a fixed speed camera can be installed. The mobile ones, however, are much less rigid in the requirements. I have to say, the course is well worth anyone's time to do. I did it because I was caught doing 36 in a 30 zone, which prior to the course I would (and did) find utterly ridiculous. However, I was definitely convinced by what they had to say, and it really makes you take a really good look at yourself on the roads. My feelings exactly after I went on my speed awareness course, biggest shock was that if they can prove you were doing 31 in a 30 limit if you hit & kill someone they will prosecute you to the full extent of the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 29 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 29 June, 2010 Must make a confession here. I am a naughty boy and don't read the Daily Mail. haha my mum does, they champion this bloke I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 29 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 29 June, 2010 My feelings exactly after I went on my speed awareness course, biggest shock was that if they can prove you were doing 31 in a 30 limit if you hit & kill someone they will prosecute you to the full extent of the law. My partner went on one (yes, a family of criminals) and an old guy piped at the end that he had learned from the day that he could go faster on dual carriageways than he previously thought! lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 Try the AA (Automobile Association before some wag pipes up). They have lawyers who specialise in this sort of thing and they are likely to charge a reasonable amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 is it true they allow you 10% over the limit due to varying speedometers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 29 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 29 June, 2010 Try the AA (Automobile Association before some wag pipes up). They have lawyers who specialise in this sort of thing and they are likely to charge a reasonable amount. Thanks, thats a good idea too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 29 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 29 June, 2010 is it true they allow you 10% over the limit due to varying speedometers? thats what I heard, Ive never heard of anyone getting clocked doing 33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 Another thought - you don't have to prove you weren't speeding, you just have to prove that you were not traveeling at the speed they claimed in the notice. A relative of mine wriggled out of a fine this way. One thing to consider though - if you go for it and the court throws out your plea then you will cop the costs (approx £3k) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 isn't it 10% + 2mph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chin Strain Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 (edited) thats what I heard, Ive never heard of anyone getting clocked doing 33 I have - and in the last 12 months. 32 (it may have been 33) in a 30 in the new 30mph zone through Ampfield. They've been having a spurt on reducing previous 40 and 60 mph zones around Ampfield / Chandlers Ford down to 30mph zones over the last year or two. Think I've just been done on Hook Road doing 36. I may have been lucky as I slowed pretty quick and there was a car in front - not sure how long they need to lock on. I wouldn't mind but the copper had pretty much parked his bike behind a tree and was hiding in the bushes! There's only one road off Hook Road, and houses only on one side. I'd guess there are no more than 15 houses on the mile stretch to the Potters Heron. I have no issue with obeying the speed limit, but sometimes you wonder if the speed limit in place is down to residents whinging (they're big houses so probably find a councillor or mp lives there), or to attract easy revenue. It's always been a national speed limit until the last year or so. Edited 29 June, 2010 by Chin Strain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 Sounds like your mate was hugely lucky. My boss plays a tight wicket (?) and my name is already down on the form at Hampshire Speed Safety HQ The 3 cameras were all mobile bastards on bikes hidden in bushes, I dont think a Sat Nav helps here. Finally - I find it very stupid I dont get offered a Speed Awareness course as I was going too fast for it! Surely the whole point of these things is to educate to prevent reoffending? Oh yeah I forgot its actually about raising revenue for PC Plod Should have learnt after the first time I'm afraid, as for the red light I'm glad I wasn't anywhere near you at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 I have - and in the last 12 months. 32 (it may have been 33) in a 30 in the new 30mph zone through Ampfield. They've been having a spurt on reducing previous 40 and 60 mph zones around Ampfield / Chandlers Ford down to 30mph zones over the last year or two. Think I've just been done on Hook Road doing 36 (I may have been lucky as I slowed pretty quick and there was a car in front - not sure how long they need to lock on) - only one road off Hook Road, and houses only on one side. Always been a national speed limit until the last year or so. I'd have seriously considered appealing that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 29 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 29 June, 2010 Another thought - you don't have to prove you weren't speeding, you just have to prove that you were not traveeling at the speed they claimed in the notice. A relative of mine wriggled out of a fine this way. One thing to consider though - if you go for it and the court throws out your plea then you will cop the costs (approx £3k) think id rather take the ban and look for a less risky job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 i know its a 30 there but doing 41 there is hugely safe im afraid, there are plenty of 40s around where kids are walking along pavements its only cos its a posh street the red light if it was me was just changing, im pretty sure i took a fall for my boss there anyway, i didnt argue as my license was clean at the time ive driven 10 years now in 2 months ive been whacked three times. yes im stupid but im also unlucky, the fact my newborn was in an incubator the weeks before may have had something to do with it LOL, try telling that to the judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 29 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 29 June, 2010 Should have learnt after the first time I'm afraid, as for the red light I'm glad I wasn't anywhere near you at that time. as stated before there was no time to learn between 3rd and 4th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 29 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 29 June, 2010 I have - and in the last 12 months. 32 (it may have been 33) in a 30 in the new 30mph zone through Ampfield. They've been having a spurt on reducing previous 40 and 60 mph zones around Ampfield / Chandlers Ford down to 30mph zones over the last year or two. Think I've just been done on Hook Road doing 36 (I may have been lucky as I slowed pretty quick and there was a car in front - not sure how long they need to lock on) - only one road off Hook Road, and houses only on one side. Always been a national speed limit until the last year or so. One of mine was on Hook Road just on a bend where it goes from 30 to 40, bet the bastard was on commission :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 My partner went on one (yes, a family of criminals) and an old guy piped at the end that he had learned from the day that he could go faster on dual carriageways than he previously thought! lol. Joking aside, I was quite surprised about how many basic areas of the highway code I had forgotten. I passed my test in 1991 and hadn't even looked at a copy of the highway code since. But they do a multiple choice test on it and I think I only got about 60% right, which is quite shocking really. The highest score in the room got 80%, and they weren't all that difficult questions. Just shows how much you forget/disregard once you get your licence. The course focussing on your responsibility as a driver to better recognise changing road conditions, then reinforces it with stats and various other information on why many 40mph areas are being downgraded to 30mph. At the end I did feel a bit preached to, but it was worth it to get a much better appreciation of using the road. EDIT: I also meant to say, the course isn't just compulsory upon getting clocked speeding. Mine had two yound lads who had recently passed their tests and had chosen to do it for the extra training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chin Strain Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 I'd have seriously considered appealing that I'm pretty sure he did....but they weren't having a bean of it. I'm not sure who gets the revenue from speeding fines, but if the police force get a cut of it, you can bet your bottom dollar they'll be looking to up their takings as their budgets are being slashed. The increase in police mobile cameras in Chandlers Ford has been very noticeable over the last 6 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 29 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 29 June, 2010 (edited) LOL, try telling that to the judge. yeah you are repeating other people on here word for word, of course I wont say that, apparently you have to concoct a proper sob story - keeps lawyers in porches (?) i suppose Edited 29 June, 2010 by Jonnyboy forgot how to spell a car name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chin Strain Posted 29 June, 2010 Share Posted 29 June, 2010 One of mine was on Hook Road just on a bend where it goes from 30 to 40, bet the bastard was on commission :-) Yep, same today. He was on the corner by Hook Crescent. I might be lucky, but I'm not counting on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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