Is Cortese deliberately trying to annoy the fans.

[Thedelldays]

This board would be nothing if rumour, tittle tattle, "facts", opinion etc were removed/banned. What people make of these rumours in the anonymity of the nerdy and relatively worthless interweb is up to them, but rumours and gossip are a part and parcel of this board (as it turned out the Pardew rumours were borne out within a few months).

 

If someone got hold of a rumour that Adkins was being tapped up for the Liverpool job, or Cortese was looking to replace him with someone who has gained promotion from the Championship or that Lallana was being tailed by Liverpool, then I'm sure we would all like to profer our opinion on the validity (or not) of them.

yes it would..it has survived pretty well after the shenanigans of the summer and AP time and romseysaint went into meltdown....for ages all we had were talk of the team and adkins etc (i think you missed alot of it).....

[um pahars]

yes it would..it has survived pretty well after the shenanigans of the summer and AP time and romseysaint went into meltdown....for ages all we had were talk of the team and adkins etc (i think you missed alot of it).....

 

And it will be alive again the minute the transfer windows opens and we start sniffing round players that range from Murray to Macail-Smith and start worrying about who's tapping up Lallana, Oxo, Fonte, whoever. Throw in gossip about ticket prices, new kits et al and this board will be rumbling all summer despite a game not being played for months.

 

Now if during this time something raised its head with regards Adkins & Cortese (extending contract, being sacked, wanting to leave) then I would expect it to be raised & discussed (and dismissed if necessary). The Pardew rumours were rife from the end of the last season throughout the close season and it seems ridiculous to suggest people wouldn't be interested or wouldn't to know about them.

[up and away]

What makes you say that (in a mild enquiring manner, not a confrontational prove it retort)????

 

Being honest I have to say that I never thought Pardew had Cortese's full backing towards the end of last season, then over pre-season and then throught the first few games. I never bought in to the "Pardew rumours", instead I always thought Cortese wanted him shot since the back end of last season, Liebherr was less certain and Liebherr's passing provided Cortese with the ideal opportunity (once a few weeks had passed).

 

And before Manji wets the bed, that opinion is based on nothing more than how things panned out and the tittle tattle expressed on here, at SMS and reading between the lines - probably incorrectly of course (no ITK whatsoever).

 

I am pretty sure Pardew never had Cortese’s full backing at the back end of last season, otherwise Cortese would not have been considering his options to what was on offer if he replaced Pardew. I don’t believe there is anything to suggest that Cortese only made his move following Markus’s passing, unless Cortese felt it was in line with his wishes. Cortese had such total control even down to the smallest of details and Markus never interfered. There was a very strong rumour that Markus made a comment in the director’s box that Pardew should be gone. That is the only snippit I have ever heard that may of come from Markus. Whether true or not, I am sure that filtered back down to Pardew.

At the end of last season I believe Cortese reviewed his options, then met with Pardew, cleared the air over what had happened previously and gave him his full backing for the season ahead. I doubt Pardew was brimming with confidence at that point, but I firmly believe it was Cortese’s intention for Pardew to see out that coming season. When the Echo went into overdrive implying Pardew would be sacked, Cortese took the exceptional step for him of going public to deny this. The only reason he was forced to respond to this was if he failed to give Pardew full backing he could easily decide to be off and all those plans made for the season ahead would have to start over again after a new manager had been found. It is that staunch defence of Pardew to those rumours which is key to me. Cortese just does not go that route unless paramount.

Then Pardews sacking, which I doubt anyone would suggest was planned with someone waiting in the wings to fill his boots. Cortese commented at the time that he fully understood the negative effect this could have on promotion this season and a position he would never deliberately place the club in, unless he believed it to be unavoidable. Here you just have to decide for yourself whether Cortese would have taken such action, bearing in mind the consequences and their importance to Cortese. I believed Pardew was sacked for damaging the players during pre-season against the express warning from the medical and coaching staff. Others have pointed out they believe there was a little bit more to things, staff being threatened with a bloody nose should they poke it in where it does not belong, the comment that the Bolton cup game was not a priority, but that it was treated as such,etc. But I still feel if we had won all those early league games and the team looked in good form, Pardew could have lined up all the secretaries down at Staplewood and he would still be in a job.

Without doubt Pardew had the look about him of a dead man walking, but nothing came out from Cortese, only Pardew. I believe Cortese was sure in his own mind, but Pardew was not so sure what was going on in Cortese’s head.

[um pahars]

I am pretty sure Pardew never had Cortese’s full backing at the back end of last season...............

 

An interesting reply, not sure I agree with it all, but something like this will always provide us with a myriad of opinions and theories!!!

 

I must say I've never heard the line that he was sacked and then this was rescinded (see FF's reply above), so would be interested to know what happened there (assuming that that did happen of course).

[Big Bad Bob]

How about this :-

 

Rumours of Cortese's disatisfaction with Pardew ***** Newcastle's ears.

Pardew tells Cortese he's a **** so as to get sacked.

Cortese sacks Pardew then realises/is informed of a Newcastle impending approach, Corteste rescinds the sacking waiting for the official approach and the compensation thereafter.

Newcastle bide there time, knowing that Pardew will go sooner rather than later.

3 months later Cortese has had enough and sacks Pardew again BUT puts in a clause that says he has to wait 3 months before he gets another job.

 

All IMHO

Edited 6 May, 2011 by Big Bad Bob
the first ***** if for p r i c k, really this forum should have a contextual swear filter

[Wes Tender]

Am I the only one who feels uncomfortable about the title to this thread? OK, so it's been resurrected from much earlier in the season, but in view of everything that has gone on since, it looks as out of date as Pompey's FA Cup triumph.

 

Whether we ever know the full truth about the circumstances that led to Pardew's departure is doubtful. He's been gone some time and nothing concrete beyond rumour and innuendo has surfaced so far.

 

But in any event, who cares? The only possibility that would have been an improvement on what Adkins has achieved, would have been going up as champions and there is nothing to suggest in most peoples' minds that Pardew might have achieved that.

 

So if people want to stir up and muddy the waters rather than moving on, how about waiting for some other rumours to surface and then begin again with a new thread and a more sensible title?

[um pahars]

Am I the only one who feels uncomfortable about the title to this thread? OK, so it's been resurrected from much earlier in the season, but in view of everything that has gone on since, it looks as out of date as Pompey's FA Cup triumph.

 

You're probably spot on Wes (although in my defence I was only repsonding to Manji's poorly constructed jibes!!!!).

 

There have been quite a few threads resurrected in recent days as some try to gain some sort of gratification in trumpetting that "they were right" and "others were wrong". Strange and I would liken it to the small time behaviour of some Brighton fans who instead of celebrating a great season went out of their way to have a pop at us.

 

You only had to look at the resurrection of that Delldays thread when he was going ballistic back in Spetember and how people were now using it as a stick to beat the poor man with. What that thread initially showed was that Delldays was/is passionate about the Club and is as kneejerk as the rest of us after some schite performances and all he was doing was getting stuff off his chest on the ether of the interweb.

 

I've sat with Exit2 all season who has been telling me "Play offs, I tell thee!!!", but I'm not going to be taking the **** next time I see him, instead we'll both be celebrating as Saints fans together.

[jam]

You seem to be saying we should believe you just because you believe it. Yet I've read accounts for Newcastle fans who claim similar knowledge and claim Pardew pretty much had the Newcastle job lined up that summer after meetings with Ashley. I don't know whether that's true, my point is, why should I believe you anymore than I'd believe them? Everyone has a different version and they all tell you you're deluded/blind if you don't believe it.

 

If as you say, Pardew was sacked and then recinded, it's equally his fault at what followed. You're right his motivation may have suffered because of that, but if so, why stay? Sitting out a job you feel unwanted in, or unable/unmotivated to do does the club no favours whatsoever. We had enough of that with Redknapp.

 

I'd rather he'd gone in the summer, I don't see that he did a great job, it was merely alright. I'm not sure he'd have taken us up. Maybe he would, but I still think there'd have been inconsistency and more frustrating results than we've had under Adkins (whose record is far better given where he started from). Furthermore, I'd rather be going forward with Adkins than Pardew, where there'd always be uncertainty, and little loyalty.

 

We may well be in a better place with NA but if there is any truth in the notion that Pardew and Ashley had come to an agreement about the Newcastle job then doesn't it bother you that our season was threatened so that Ashley could save on paying out compensation to us?

[Frank's cousin]

As Nicola himself commented in that long Video interview, it did surprise him how negative and suspicious we all seem to be, but he could perhaps understand it given what we had been through... Whilst like most fans, its always interesting to hear gossip and rumour, afterall its what these boards are all about - I must admit to not understanding the rationale for posting negative stories, especially when the sources are spurious or not given... because whetehr intentional or not, it gives the perception of an agenda... and we have all perhaps had our skinful of it. I think the problem for Duncs and one or two others that have been associated closely with the club and its employees etc, is that more wieght is lent to their posts by that association, even if they go to the trouble of pointing out that its spurious-its perhaps unfair, but I guess they need to be a bit more careful simply because of the way these stories can get a life of their own, when their names are associated with them....

[sandwichsaint]

I think though what this all highlights is that we have over the years become so distrustful of any 'regime' - and to be fair, we have all had strong opinions on the merits and dismerits of the various incumbants often fuelled by our own 'agendas' depending on which side a particular fence we were sat on. During those periods that we would ideally all like to forget, those with 'links' to the club, naturally became sources of info. Ideally, the info would always have been provided without any associated bias, but it would be impossible to expect that and I think its appreciated by most that readers that they needed to make up their own minds as to the what could taken as fact, gossip, or rumour designed to maybe influence public feeling... propoganda is too strong a word, but it would be naive not to acknowledge that was certainly plenty of 'agenda dressed as info' at the time.

 

I think that suspicion and distrust was carried over by some when Markus and Nicola arrived, possibly as most fans still feel naturally concerned when owners arrive with no apparent links and only a buisness based background. However, I think for most we were just glad to be alive, to still ahve a club and felt that it was always somewhat churlish to begin poking and disecting every action and approach, looking for holes and undermining the joy most felt at simply having a club to support - and to be fair, the nit picking began almost from day one. It was as if some would simply not accept any regime unless it was 100% to their liking. and that ****ed a few folk off, because we just wanted to enjoy teh fact that we had not only survived, but had found someone who wanted to see us rise from the ashes as much as the fans did. Its hy many simply dont understand the need to be publically critical, even if the critism is perhaps justified when teh issue is taken in isolation - and i think that's it in a nutshell. NC has done things that when taken in isolation possibly wont be to everyones liking, fair enough. But when looked at over his tenure to date, or in light of the REAL reasons why certain actions were taken, they become almost trivial compared to the positives - I guess it depends pon your personal threshold for how much needs to be done inline with to your particular opinion... for me if 80% is right, I simply dont have the energy or desire to rake over teh 20% - seems daft to me, especially as most of it will be unsubstantiated or critiqued without the benefit of knowing teh rationale behind it.

 

The removeal of the payment plan was a classic - major wranglings on here, about its removal, yet i am sure now most understand WHY it was necessary, so the real critique should and eventually be aimed at the communication of it rather than the action itself - and for me, if NC is crap at communication, but delivers on the 5 year plan, thats more than good enough for me - and probably most fans - simply put, communication really only matters when things are not going well... and then most will describe it as spin anyway ! ;-)

 

Seriously, I think most are just fed up with the perceived NEED to know every litlle detail and if its negative at a time when on teh pitch everything is rosey, its becomes wide open to accustaions of conspiarcy and stirring teh pot of some hidden agenda. I have spoken and shared a few ales with Dincan on quite a few occasions. He commands (and has earned) my respect despite the fact I dont always agree with his views. The fact that he had links with some of teh players of the past, naturally makes it more difficult to be perceived as unbiassed when presenting info now... I would just say though, that personnaly I dont feel the need to worry aboutwhether NC is nice to work for or not or some otehr gossip, because his job is to deliver results, and from where I am sitting so far top marks!

 

I think we just need to lose the distrust of things associated with business in football. I do believe some of the maining naysayers probably have their roots deep within the old fashioned ideals of the local club run and owned in trusts by local people. None of that is wrong in principle but its almost impossible (especially for a club of Saints size) to deliver success on those ideals in this business driven age.

 

No one has ever said NC should be above criticism, no one should, but maybe just maybe, its time we put faith back into it and learned to trust those loooking after the club again so we focus on what really matters - support?

 

I guess, what I am getting at in 50 lines of verbage, is do we really need to criticise everything, or is that just to satisfy our own egos?

 

Saints Web in a nutshell?

[up and away]

An interesting reply, not sure I agree with it all, but something like this will always provide us with a myriad of opinions and theories!!!

 

I must say I've never heard the line that he was sacked and then this was rescinded (see FF's reply above), so would be interested to know what happened there (assuming that that did happen of course).

 

I believe there is enough public knowledge out there to readily counter that Cortese’s intentions were to sack Pardew, irrespective of events. You don’t even have to be itk to work it out!

 

The biggest piece in this jigsaw that has to be hammered into place with a 10lb hammer and router, how would anyone know that Cortese intended to sack Pardew at some later point? Unless someone actually heard these words from Cortese’s mouth, how can it be anything but speculation? If anyone is going to seriously suggest that Cortese spread this about months in advance, when in all other instances we have not heard a mouse fart from that direction?

[NickG]

I believe there is enough public knowledge out there to readily counter that Cortese’s intentions were to sack Pardew, irrespective of events. You don’t even have to be itk to work it out!

 

The biggest piece in this jigsaw that has to be hammered into place with a 10lb hammer and router, how would anyone know that Cortese intended to sack Pardew at some later point? Unless someone actually heard these words from Cortese’s mouth, how can it be anything but speculation? If anyone is going to seriously suggest that Cortese spread this about months in advance, when in all other instances we have not heard a mouse fart from that direction?

 

agree.

 

Seems to be well rumoured that relationship wasn't great, with comments from both of them that could be seen as slight digs.

 

The rumours of imminent sacking - were just that - and false.

 

Something happened and he was sacked, people are now trying to make that fit their old rumours and stirring.

[NickG]

Nick you are so wrong. I think you will find that he was sacked twice but the first sacking was swiftly rescinded. Don't believe me? Then ask AP himself.

No big deal but having being given his cards in May it is no surprise "Dead man Walking" AP rather lost his enthusiasm. You know the rest.

 

It is no longer a big deal. It has worked out fine. We are all leaving the building and boarding Nigels magic bus. But things are not or were not as you have been lead to believe.. it is sad that should you dare on here question the official story, the anonymous cyber warrior, aka Manji launches accusations of having drinking buddies who want a place on the board or me wanting to turn St Marys into a Stalinist kibbutz and not forgetting the cliche if you criticise you must have an agenda.

Manji must have been the inspiration for the bloke who wrote the cartoon show "wait till your father gets home" - ever fearful the commies were going to take over the world.

 

sorry mate not convinced. Its not that I doubt the official story - I don't think they have bothered telling us one!

[batterseasaint]

Pardew was already talking with Newcastle before he was sacked by Pardew. I heard that straight from the mouth of one of Pardew's advisors who was involved in negotiating the deal. I wouldn't mind betting that that is the reason why Cortese said he 'had no choice' but to sack him. Whether it was because of Cortese's attitude towards Pardew that led him to talk with Newcastle, i guess only Pardew himself will know.

[georgeweahscousin]

Seriously. Who cares.

 

Enjoy the promotion party!

[dingbattigger]

Seriously. Who cares.

 

Enjoy the promotion party!

 

This. It's all old news anyway.

[sadoldgit]

Pardew was already talking with Newcastle before he was sacked by Pardew. I heard that straight from the mouth of one of Pardew's advisors who was involved in negotiating the deal. I wouldn't mind betting that that is the reason why Cortese said he 'had no choice' but to sack him. Whether it was because of Cortese's attitude towards Pardew that led him to talk with Newcastle, i guess only Pardew himself will know.

 

If he knew he was going to leave why sack him? It was no secret that the two did not get on. Could you blame Pardew for keeping his options open if what you say is true? There was an awful lot of rubbish spouted about this at the time and there still is. As it happens it has worked out well for both us and Pardew so time to move on.