British or English?

[John B]

Ditto.

 

And perhaps it's about time that our most respected journalists at the BBC started their broadcasts along similar lines... I'm talking from New York, America....

 

As we dont have an English Government I suppose I am British

[Joensuu]

Human first, European second, British third.

[Saint George]

And then just to compound their ignorance, they go and call our national game soccer! It's football, you ignorant tw*ts!

 

LOL....talk about irony....it is 'you' who is the "ignorant" one here

 

Just because it's called "football" in Britain doesn't mean that every country in the World has to call it the same......Soccer used to be the common word for football in Britain...hell, you still even have TV shows that call it "soccer"...Soccer Saturday etc...

 

America already had a pro game called "Football" which developed from the game .....yup..."Rugby Football".......and just as you did in Britain, called 'association football' "soccer" to differentiate it from the other codes of "football"

 

As for Americans calling y'all Brits or English.....25 years ago hardly anyone in England refered to themselves as English, you never saw a St Georges cross and 'no one' even knew when St Georges day was...now y'all expect the rest of the world to change their dictionaries overnight, just because y'all have recently rediscovered your identity.

 

And then on top of that, y'all keep refering to 'all' Americans as "Yanks"........Talk about a bunch of "ignorant" 'Limey' "***ts"...oh, and hypicrital one's at that.

 

The Aussies really did get it right

[badgerx16]

True, y'all ain't no Yankee, y'alls a hick Redneck Johnny Reb

 

YeeeHaaaw !

[Wes Tender]

LOL....talk about irony....it is 'you' who is the "ignorant" one here

 

Just because it's called "football" in Britain doesn't mean that every country in the World has to call it the same......Soccer used to be the common word for football in Britain...hell, you still even have TV shows that call it "soccer"...Soccer Saturday etc...

 

America already had a pro game called "Football" which developed from the game .....yup..."Rugby Football".......and just as you did in Britain, called 'association football' "soccer" to differentiate it from the other codes of "football"

 

As for Americans calling y'all Brits or English.....25 years ago hardly anyone in England refered to themselves as English, you never saw a St Georges cross and 'no one' even knew when St Georges day was...now y'all expect the rest of the world to change their dictionaries overnight, just because y'all have recently rediscovered your identity.

 

And then on top of that, y'all keep refering to 'all' Americans as "Yanks"........Talk about a bunch of "ignorant" 'Limey' "***ts"...oh, and hypicrital one's at that.

 

The Aussies really did get it right

 

I'm quite happy to stand by this explanation of the origins of British football:-

 

British Football History

 

"In Britain during the 8th century, football was created, not as a recreational sport, but as a war game. One of the stories of the original roots of the sport comes from when a Danish Prince was beheaded, and his head was used as a ball and was kicked around. Ever since this 'legendary' tale, villages and other communities would play a game where they would have to kick a ball to a specific goal.

 

It was a violent game, where injury and death were not uncommon, but it was popular nevertheless. In fact, it was so violent, that in 1331, King Edward III passed laws to try to stop the playing of the game. It did not work, however, and the sport carried on.

 

There are even stories of football games that involved hundreds upon hundreds of players. In these games, there were many deaths, some resulting in the hundreds. It wasn't until 1815 when Eton College set up a series of rules for the game that it became less violent and more of a true sport.At this time, other colleges and universities took up the banner and began to play under similar rules.

 

Later, the rules were evaluated and judged, and the Cambridge rules were created as a result in 1848. In the Cambridge rules, shin-kicking, carrying the ball and tripping were all forbidden. Rugby rules allowed these aspects, and the two varieties of football, or football, split to form their own followings.

 

On 26 October 1863, London schools and sports club sent representatives to the Freemason's Tavern, where the Football Association was formed. Rugby supporters left this association to form the Rugby Association. This is where the birth of modern football began. In 1969, the Football Association finalized the modern game of football by forbidding the use of hands in the game.

 

The term "Soccer" was coined when someone was asked if he was a Rugger, which is a Rugby player. The -er signified that the person participated in a particular sport. The individual, Charles Wreford Brown, replied with "Soccer!", taking the phrase from Association, SOC, and adding the -er. The term stuck. While British individuals still call the game Football, Americans and other countries call it Soccer, especially if they have heavy support in American Football present.

 

Ever since the foundation of the Association, Football has risen in popularity, becoming one the best loved games in the known history of the Earth. Now, hundreds of thousands play the sport, although it lacks the initial violence present at its creation."

 

As it says, Americans have a tendency to call it Soccer to distinguish it from what they call football, but which we call American football. As the modern game, the one that is played all over the World, is played to the rules made here in Britain, we have a perfect right to disparage other nations calling it by other names. Many of those countires calling it Soccer do so because of the influence of American television media, in much the same way that the Americans are gradually changing the English language too with their mis-spellings of words such as colour, valour, theatre, etc. And thank God that we don't all go round saying y'all, although I'm sure that it is only a matter of time.

 

It obviously didn't occur to you that programmes like Soccer Saturday were named thus because it is an aliteration. If the show was shown on a Friday, then it would undoubtedly be called Football Friday or Friday football.

 

25 years ago hardly anybody went around saying that they were English, because most of the white population was English making it unecessary. Now with the influx of Eastern Europeans, it needs to be qualified more often. The rise in popularity in St George's Day, also coincides with the increase of the popularity of celebrations for the other Saints' days, particularly St Patricks Day. As the other Countries that make up the so-called United Kingdom gain their own Governance through their own Parliaments, so an English Nationalism increases.

 

But if you have been a long time over there, you wouldn't be too aware of these things.

[badgerx16]

I'm quite happy to stand by this explanation of the origins of British football:-

 

British Football History

 

"In Britain during the 8th century, football was created, not as a recreational sport, but as a war game. One of the stories of the original roots of the sport comes from when a Danish Prince was beheaded, and his head was used as a ball and was kicked around. Ever since this 'legendary' tale, villages and other communities would play a game where they would have to kick a ball to a specific goal.

 

It was a violent game, where injury and death were not uncommon, but it was popular nevertheless. In fact, it was so violent, that in 1331, King Edward III passed laws to try to stop the playing of the game. It did not work, however, and the sport carried on.

 

There are even stories of football games that involved hundreds upon hundreds of players. In these games, there were many deaths, some resulting in the hundreds. It wasn't until 1815 when Eton College set up a series of rules for the game that it became less violent and more of a true sport.At this time, other colleges and universities took up the banner and began to play under similar rules.

 

Later, the rules were evaluated and judged, and the Cambridge rules were created as a result in 1848. In the Cambridge rules, shin-kicking, carrying the ball and tripping were all forbidden. Rugby rules allowed these aspects, and the two varieties of football, or football, split to form their own followings.

 

On 26 October 1863, London schools and sports club sent representatives to the Freemason's Tavern, where the Football Association was formed. Rugby supporters left this association to form the Rugby Association. This is where the birth of modern football began. In 1969, the Football Association finalized the modern game of football by forbidding the use of hands in the game.

 

The term "Soccer" was coined when someone was asked if he was a Rugger, which is a Rugby player. The -er signified that the person participated in a particular sport. The individual, Charles Wreford Brown, replied with "Soccer!", taking the phrase from Association, SOC, and adding the -er. The term stuck. While British individuals still call the game Football, Americans and other countries call it Soccer, especially if they have heavy support in American Football present.

 

Ever since the foundation of the Association, Football has risen in popularity, becoming one the best loved games in the known history of the Earth. Now, hundreds of thousands play the sport, although it lacks the initial violence present at its creation."

 

As it says, Americans have a tendency to call it Soccer to distinguish it from what they call football, but which we call American football. As the modern game, the one that is played all over the World, is played to the rules made here in Britain, we have a perfect right to disparage other nations calling it by other names. Many of those countires calling it Soccer do so because of the influence of American television media, in much the same way that the Americans are gradually changing the English language too with their mis-spellings of words such as colour, valour, theatre, etc. And thank God that we don't all go round saying y'all, although I'm sure that it is only a matter of time.

 

It obviously didn't occur to you that programmes like Soccer Saturday were named thus because it is an aliteration. If the show was shown on a Friday, then it would undoubtedly be called Football Friday or Friday football.

 

25 years ago hardly anybody went around saying that they were English, because most of the white population was English making it unecessary. Now with the influx of Eastern Europeans, it needs to be qualified more often. The rise in popularity in St George's Day, also coincides with the increase of the popularity of celebrations for the other Saints' days, particularly St Patricks Day. As the other Countries that make up the so-called United Kingdom gain their own Governance through their own Parliaments, so an English Nationalism increases.

 

But if you have been a long time over there, you wouldn't be too aware of these things.

 

[jeff leopard]

North/Western European, then British. I'm English/Welsh during the Ashes and English for the duration of England football games.

 

'English' was a dirty word for a while, primarily because for as long as I can remember, the St Georges cross had been hijacked by the far-right groups/neo-nazi's. Euro 96 went a long way to re-claim it for people that don't drag their knuckles as they walk along. If we can stamp out racism in everyday life then maybe I'll feel proud to be English one day. But then again, nationalism and patriotism, like internet forums, are primarily reserved for those lacking real lives

[SNSUN]

Now now Stavros!

 

I'm going to cut off your winky and serve it to my customers in a pitta bread with garlic mayo...

 

...Oops...:-)

[Saint George]

North/Western European, then British. I'm English/Welsh during the Ashes and English for the duration of England football games.

 

'English' was a dirty word for a while, primarily because for as long as I can remember, the St Georges cross had been hijacked by the far-right groups/neo-nazi's. Euro 96 went a long way to re-claim it for people that don't drag their knuckles as they walk along. If we can stamp out racism in everyday life then maybe I'll feel proud to be English one day. But then again, nationalism and patriotism, like internet forums, are primarily reserved for those lacking real lives

 

s'funny, because back in the 70's, 80's and early 90's, the same was said of the National Front and the "Union Jack"...most peeps wouldn't have had a clue what you were talking about if you mentioned the St George Cross back then

 

Mind naming the particular right wing group that had hijacked the St George cross prior to say 95?

[Wes Tender]

s'funny, because back in the 70's, 80's and early 90's, the same was said of the National Front and the "Union Jack"...most peeps wouldn't have had a clue what you were talking about if you mentioned the St George Cross back then

 

Mind naming the particular right wing group that had hijacked the St George cross prior to say 95?

 

Was it the Maltese?

[dune]

I am of the same view as The Duke of Wellington and Cecil Rhodes.

Edited 25 June, 2010 by dune

[Thedelldays]

North/Western European, then British. I'm English/Welsh during the Ashes and English for the duration of England football games.

 

'English' was a dirty word for a while, primarily because for as long as I can remember, the St Georges cross had been hijacked by the far-right groups/neo-nazi's. Euro 96 went a long way to re-claim it for people that don't drag their knuckles as they walk along. If we can stamp out racism in everyday life then maybe I'll feel proud to be English one day. But then again, nationalism and patriotism, like internet forums, are primarily reserved for those lacking real lives

 

 

you are such a chump..you really are..

[Saint Billy]

Irish surname with links way back but still very English.

[dune]

Being British is like being Australian - a civic title, but being English is like being Aboroginal.

[tombletomble]

We are all Homo sapiens. That is all that really matters.

[Wes Tender]

We are all Homo sapiens. That is all that really matters.

 

Apart from Homo Neanderthalensis thought to be extinct, but apparently still to be found on Portsea Island. A notable specimen was to have had his brain removed for examination but it was then found that somebody had beaten them to it. He can still be found every couple of weeks in the environs of the Fratton area, where the highest concentrations of inbreeding with Home Sapiens were recorded and can easily be identified by his tribal tattoos and costume. Scientists have appended upon his person a warning to unsuspecting individuals who might encounter him and not be aware of his mental state. This is in the form of a pendant badge that informs them "Danger, stupid person." They have also given him a bell. This not only brings him simple pleasure, but also serves to notify unsuspecting person of his proximity.

[sadoldgit]

Nothing wrong with being proud of your country, but it say "British" in my passport an I can't see anything wrong in that. The whole tribalism thing is a bit redundant now in the 21st century and you have to wonder what is going on in people's lives when they get so worked up about a name. We are all human beings and we all share the planet. The notion that you are somehow better than somone else by accident of geography should have died out with the defeat of National Socialism in Germany half way through the last century. The "English" bloodline comes from Germans, Scandanavians, Italians, French, Celts, Dutch, etc invaders and immigrants/invaders in the past - african and asian in more recent times. A person's identity should be defined by the type of person they are, not their postcode. Trust me, flying a white flag with a red cross on it outside your house makes you no better a human being than somone flying the stars and stripes outside theirs. Tribalism/nationalism has been one of the biggest causes of Man's inhumanity to Man since time began. Time to grow up and move forward. It is one thing to support a bunch of sportsmen who share a common geographical boundary, another to get wound up by what it says in your passport. And as for those kicking off about being English when they have made the choice to up sticks and move to another country....what's going on there?

[sadoldgit]

s'funny, because back in the 70's, 80's and early 90's, the same was said of the National Front and the "Union Jack"...most peeps wouldn't have had a clue what you were talking about if you mentioned the St George Cross back then

 

Mind naming the particular right wing group that had hijacked the St George cross prior to say 95?

 

Don't mention St George it will only upset people. He wasn't remotely English.

[Wes Tender]

Don't mention St George it will only upset people. He wasn't remotely English.

 

He wasn't remotely British either. What's you point? He is our patron Saint regardless of his origins, just as Mickey Mouse is the patron saint of the USA.

[david in sweden]

I am English.

 

I was born in England to English parents. The football team I support plays in the english league structure and I follow and support the exploits of our national football team; England.

 

Do not call me British. I am English.

 

Not sure I understand ...Can you be a bit more forthright on that, Colin ?

[david in sweden]

English not British. I am from England, the country in the United Kingdom of Great Britain. It's a pet hate of mine when Americans refer to Englishmen as 'the Brits'.

 

....and my pet hate is when SWEDES refer to ANYONE from the UK (including Scots ) ..as..ENGLISH.

No problem for me I was born in So'ton, but most peoples knowledge of Political Geograpy is ...terrible!

[sadoldgit]

He wasn't remotely British either. What's you point? He is our patron Saint regardless of his origins, just as Mickey Mouse is the patron saint of the USA.

 

Surely you get the point Wes? Don't you find it ironic that the geezer we are supposed to doff out hats to as being our patron Saint is a Johnny Foreigner???

[LGTL]

LOL....talk about irony....it is 'you' who is the "ignorant" one here

 

Just because it's called "football" in Britain doesn't mean that every country in the World has to call it the same......Soccer used to be the common word for football in Britain...hell, you still even have TV shows that call it "soccer"...Soccer Saturday etc...

 

America already had a pro game called "Football" which developed from the game .....yup..."Rugby Football".......and just as you did in Britain, called 'association football' "soccer" to differentiate it from the other codes of "football"

 

As for Americans calling y'all Brits or English.....25 years ago hardly anyone in England refered to themselves as English, you never saw a St Georges cross and 'no one' even knew when St Georges day was...now y'all expect the rest of the world to change their dictionaries overnight, just because y'all have recently rediscovered your identity.

 

And then on top of that, y'all keep refering to 'all' Americans as "Yanks"........Talk about a bunch of "ignorant" 'Limey' "***ts"...oh, and hypicrital one's at that.

 

The Aussies really did get it right

 

You have a MASSIVE chip on your shoulder about the UK, why? Did your wife get ****ged continually by other guys here or something? It's not as if you live here anymore of have to put up with it, so why do you care so much? Y'all seem a bit strange...

[Jonnyboy]

LOL....talk about irony....it is 'you' who is the "ignorant" one here

 

Just because it's called "football" in Britain doesn't mean that every country in the World has to call it the same......Soccer used to be the common word for football in Britain...hell, you still even have TV shows that call it "soccer"...Soccer Saturday etc...

 

America already had a pro game called "Football" which developed from the game .....yup..."Rugby Football".......and just as you did in Britain, called 'association football' "soccer" to differentiate it from the other codes of "football"

 

As for Americans calling y'all Brits or English.....25 years ago hardly anyone in England refered to themselves as English, you never saw a St Georges cross and 'no one' even knew when St Georges day was...now y'all expect the rest of the world to change their dictionaries overnight, just because y'all have recently rediscovered your identity.

 

And then on top of that, y'all keep refering to 'all' Americans as "Yanks"........Talk about a bunch of "ignorant" 'Limey' "***ts"...oh, and hypicrital one's at that.

 

The Aussies really did get it right

 

Have you ever even been to England?

[Jonnyboy]

Being British is like being Australian - a civic title, but being English is like being Aboroginal.

 

and you cant even spell your own language tut

[Saint George]

You have a MASSIVE chip on your shoulder about the UK, why? Did your wife get ****ged continually by other guys here or something? It's not as if you live here anymore of have to put up with it, so why do you care so much? Y'all seem a bit strange...

 

No chip, and i really don't care than much .....just responding to the ignorant "yank" bashing......It's real funny when it comes from 'ignorant Limey ***ts' that have no idea of their own history or culture....not even from only 30 years ago...some peeps just need educating from time to time.

 

Now jog along old chap...or I might have to crawl down into that gutter with you and start insulting your wife or something.

[skintsaint]

Surely you get the point Wes? Don't you find it ironic that the geezer we are supposed to doff out hats to as being our patron Saint is a Johnny Foreigner???

 

bit like the Paddys as well then...St Patrick wasnt Iorish

[Wes Tender]

Surely you get the point Wes? Don't you find it ironic that the geezer we are supposed to doff out hats to as being our patron Saint is a Johnny Foreigner???

 

Sorry to disappoint, but I don't find it ironic at all. The reason is quite simple actually. We are talking about an historical character from a long way back, one with a religious connection as our patron saint. It is not some rule set in concrete that a patron saint must have some connection with a particular country and then of course there are the patron saints of various trades or activities too and many of them are not country specific.

 

To put it the other way around, don't you find it ironic that most in the UK of a religious bent worship JC or his Mum, or Buddha and others and I don't believe that they had much in the way of English connections either.

[ericofarabia]

Sorry to disappoint, but I don't find it ironic at all. The reason is quite simple actually. We are talking about an historical character from a long way back, one with a religious connection as our patron saint. It is not some rule set in concrete that a patron saint must have some connection with a particular country and then of course there are the patron saints of various trades or activities too and many of them are not country specific.

 

To put it the other way around, don't you find it ironic that most in the UK of a religious bent worship JC or his Mum, or Buddha and others and I don't believe that they had much in the way of English connections either.

 

My favourite hymn says ....

 

And did those feet in ancient time, Walk upon Englands mountains green:

And was the holy Lamb of God, On Englands pleasant pastures seen!

 

Not Britain's, Wales's or Scotland's but England's

[Whitey Grandad]

The U.S.A. ought to get their geography correct. U.S. Commentators often talk from London, England, but I've even heard one commentator talk from Scotland, England.

That's because there are lots of Londons in North America, just as you can find Athens and Berlin and Paris. Driving along Cape Cod is weird with towns called Harwich, Ipswich, Chatham, Orleans, Falmouth together with american names like 'Mashpee'. Taunton, Weymouth, Plymouth, Bristol are all close by. There's also a Barnstable (sic) which the locals presume is a mis-spelling of Barnstaple but is actually the name for a region of south Essex (in England, Britain). So you can hear them refer to 'London, England' which distinguishes it from 'London, Ontario' and all the others.

[Whitey Grandad]

My favourite hymn says ....

 

And did those feet in ancient time, Walk upon Englands mountains green:

And was the holy Lamb of God, On Englands pleasant pastures seen!

 

Not Britain's, Wales's or Scotland's but England's

In Victorian times the terms Britain and England were used interchangeably. I think it's down to the rise in scottish (and welsh) nationalism.

[sadoldgit]

Sorry to disappoint, but I don't find it ironic at all. The reason is quite simple actually. We are talking about an historical character from a long way back, one with a religious connection as our patron saint. It is not some rule set in concrete that a patron saint must have some connection with a particular country and then of course there are the patron saints of various trades or activities too and many of them are not country specific.

 

To put it the other way around, don't you find it ironic that most in the UK of a religious bent worship JC or his Mum, or Buddha and others and I don't believe that they had much in the way of English connections either.

 

That is becuse religion has very little to do with geographical boundaries.

[Wes Tender]

That is becuse religion has very little to do with geographical boundaries.

 

Well, you've made the point for me and furnished the reason why I'm not remotely concerned towards there being any irony. There really isn't any.

[angelman]

LOL....talk about irony....it is 'you' who is the "ignorant" one here

 

Just because it's called "football" in Britain doesn't mean that every country in the World has to call it the same......Soccer used to be the common word for football in Britain...hell, you still even have TV shows that call it "soccer"...Soccer Saturday etc...

 

America already had a pro game called "Football" which developed from the game .....yup..."Rugby Football".......and just as you did in Britain, called 'association football' "soccer" to differentiate it from the other codes of "football"

 

As for Americans calling y'all Brits or English.....25 years ago hardly anyone in England refered to themselves as English, you never saw a St Georges cross and 'no one' even knew when St Georges day was...now y'all expect the rest of the world to change their dictionaries overnight, just because y'all have recently rediscovered your identity.

 

And then on top of that, y'all keep refering to 'all' Americans as "Yanks"........Talk about a bunch of "ignorant" 'Limey' "***ts"...oh, and hypicrital one's at that.

 

The Aussies really did get it right

 

As you say, the game is Association Football (as opposed to Rugby Football) etc. Soccer came from a bastardisation of the abbreviation of Association > Assoc. > Soccer

 

Out of interest, "Limeys" came from the navy. To stop scurvy, lemons were prescribed, but we were at war with all the countries who produced lemons, so we went for limes instead (which aren't as effective as lemons).

[sadoldgit]

If you say so Wes, but I disagree

[charlie saint]

And did those feet in ancient time, Walk upon Englands mountains green:

And was the holy Lamb of God, On Englands pleasant pastures seen?

 

 

Of course, the words of the song are a question.

 

The answer to which is 'no'.

[badgerx16]

Of course, the words of the song are a question.

 

The answer to which is 'no'.

But it finishes with the challenge;

"I will not cease from mental strife, nor will my sword sleep in my hand, 'til we have built Jerusalem in England's green and pleasant land".

 

A positive, uplifting, exhortation.

[Ponty]

But it finishes with the challenge;

"I will not cease from mental strife, nor will my sword sleep in my hand, 'til we have built Jerusalem in England's green and pleasant land".

 

A positive, uplifting, exhortation.

 

Uplifting? Have you seen Jerusalem?

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

I wrote something slightly witty, but it would probably have been deemed offensive to St.G

[badgerx16]

I wrote something slightly witty, but it would probably have been deemed offensive to St.G

So ? It will probably be highly entertaining to the rest of us !

[Hamilton Saint]

Of course, the words of the song are a question.

 

The answer to which is 'no'.

 

It's a rhetorical question - big difference.

[hypochondriac]

I studied Blake at college. Creative guy but totally mental.

[Ziggy]

Hampshire first, English second, Half Welsh third :blush: and British fourth.

 

If I was you I'd be more concerned why I was ashamed of the roots of one of my parents. You do have issues.

[St Landrew]

...the U.S.A. ought to get their geography correct. U.S. Commentators often talk from London, England, but I've even heard one commentator talk from Scotland, England. The truth is, we're so tiny we're all one to them.

 

That's because there are lots of Londons in North America, just as you can find Athens and Berlin and Paris. Driving along Cape Cod is weird with towns called Harwich, Ipswich, Chatham, Orleans, Falmouth together with american names like 'Mashpee'. Taunton, Weymouth, Plymouth, Bristol are all close by. There's also a Barnstable (sic) which the locals presume is a mis-spelling of Barnstaple but is actually the name for a region of south Essex (in England, Britain). So you can hear them refer to 'London, England' which distinguishes it from 'London, Ontario' and all the others.

 

That may well be true, but I think when one refers to the foremost London in the world, one shouldn't need to bother with the nationality. One obvious example is Paris. Bother when referring to Paris, Texas, but don't bother when refering to Paris, you know where I mean.

 

On the subject of England, I was watching one of those 5 minute interviews, on the BBC News website. Sadly, I can't remember who it was who made the observation, but it was said that right up to the early 20th century, the whole of the UK, as we look back to it then, was more often referred to as England. So how about that..? Perhaps I should cut the U.S. commentators some slack. They trip themselves up on plenty of other issues, anyhow.

[ericofarabia]

If I was you I'd be more concerned why I was ashamed of the roots of one of my parents. You do have issues.

 

Sorry if the use of the smileys didn't convey the humour i was trying to put over

 

I support Wales in any Rugby matches between them and England (unless it is a really really important World Cup game), although it's always England in football matches.

 

I have no issues at all with my dad being Welsh, but don't expect me to fancy sheep or eat lava bread.

 

My English trait of being able to laugh at myself also extends to my Welsh half.